shoturtle
Well-known member
I doubt they will refund the whole set, but they might for that broken ratchet. Then you can use that to pay for 1/3 the price of a snap on made in the USA one. Which is very very good.
Final Nail in the Craftsman Coffin.
- Thread starter RedFordTruck
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shoturtle
Well-known member
Or they might give you store credit so you can get an armstrong made in the USA form their website. Who knows what they will do.
gatewaysysop
Well-known member
Well, it was only a matter of time before we got to this point. What else is left besides the standard chrome sockets now? Practically everything is Chinese-made at this point.
For me it's part political, part quality. Not everything from China is **** quality, but most of it is in my experience. It's part of the culture and the ethic of the country producing the goods, as well as the profiteering nature and competitiveness of off-shore manufacturing. In a world where the lowest bid generally wins, what sensible person would assume that bottom dollar gets you the same quality as anybody else in China, much less the original COO?
On the whole, I have not been impressed with Chinese-made tools, either the new Craftsman stuff or other brands I've tried over the years. Taiwan I am on the fence with, some stuff is great, other stuff not so great, so don't get me wrong, I'm not in any way saying to buy only American. Hell, I freely admit that some of my German tools put their US-made equivalents to shame (and my Swiss made screwdrivers put their German peers to shame!
), so we are definitely not the end-all, be-all of tool quality ourselves, nor is anyone else for that matter. It's all in the eye of the beholder, and me, I'm not convinced that China produces a better tool any anyone else, not at this point anyway.
For that reason, it depresses me to see more and more of Craftsman going off-shore. Some people might say that at least the brand persists this way, but to them I would ask what good that does me, the purchaser of US-made versions of their products? I'd rather have no warranty than get what I perceive to be an inferior Chinese-made replacement down the road. To me, if the company vanishes tomorrow or not, it doesn't make much difference at this point. Frankly, I wish they had just stopped making tools if they couldn't afford to keep them domestic. There's already an overabundance of people producing Chinese tools (and almost all of them at better prices, unless you buy them off a truck
), do we really need more?
My $.02 anyway. ***** to see it spreading to the sockets/extensions/etc., but I think most of us saw this coming a long time ago.
For me it's part political, part quality. Not everything from China is **** quality, but most of it is in my experience. It's part of the culture and the ethic of the country producing the goods, as well as the profiteering nature and competitiveness of off-shore manufacturing. In a world where the lowest bid generally wins, what sensible person would assume that bottom dollar gets you the same quality as anybody else in China, much less the original COO?
On the whole, I have not been impressed with Chinese-made tools, either the new Craftsman stuff or other brands I've tried over the years. Taiwan I am on the fence with, some stuff is great, other stuff not so great, so don't get me wrong, I'm not in any way saying to buy only American. Hell, I freely admit that some of my German tools put their US-made equivalents to shame (and my Swiss made screwdrivers put their German peers to shame!
), so we are definitely not the end-all, be-all of tool quality ourselves, nor is anyone else for that matter. It's all in the eye of the beholder, and me, I'm not convinced that China produces a better tool any anyone else, not at this point anyway. For that reason, it depresses me to see more and more of Craftsman going off-shore. Some people might say that at least the brand persists this way, but to them I would ask what good that does me, the purchaser of US-made versions of their products? I'd rather have no warranty than get what I perceive to be an inferior Chinese-made replacement down the road. To me, if the company vanishes tomorrow or not, it doesn't make much difference at this point. Frankly, I wish they had just stopped making tools if they couldn't afford to keep them domestic. There's already an overabundance of people producing Chinese tools (and almost all of them at better prices, unless you buy them off a truck
), do we really need more?My $.02 anyway. ***** to see it spreading to the sockets/extensions/etc., but I think most of us saw this coming a long time ago.
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ajchien
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Typed 2 long rants and deleted them both because everything's been said already.
signcrafter
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Almost all guys, or girls, that have/had a dad or grandfather that had a set of tools had craftsman tools. Like you said, craftsman is a well recognized brand name and has always been the brand for the do it yourself guy. This was due to the fact that they made a decent tool in the USA at a decent price. Most dads and grandads believed that a tool was quality if made in the USA because in their time they were and the cheap china stuff was complete junk, which may not be the case today. But the fact still remains that their name was built on quality US made tools. That is now gone. Nobody will be telling their kids to buy craftsman because they are quality US made tools. I can go anywhere and get the same quality tool for the same price with the same warranty. Craftsman's well recognized brand name and also it being the go to for diy is gone. They went from being the middle choice of quality made in the US and price to another fish in the bottom of the barrel competting with everyone else. They lost their loyal customers now. The ones that bought a quality made in the US tool at a decent price are forced to buy an import tool at the same price or pay more for a US tool.
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dwp99
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What's next?
In a few years or maybe sooner we 'll be driving Chinese Chevrolet's and Cadillac's
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Lvl5Gan69Wo
In a few years or maybe sooner we 'll be driving Chinese Chevrolet's and Cadillac's
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Lvl5Gan69Wo
OP
RedFordTruck
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fivespdcat
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I saw this too today when I picked up my knipex order from sears. Unfortunately, I didn't think it was newsworthy because te writing has been on the wall for a while. On the flip side I have what I need, except for my plier obsession continues. Fortunately I still have channellocks and knipex to keep everything safe. For now...
jim2664258
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See, here's the problem Bill. Companies have always been in it to make money - of course they are. You don't think something has changed over the years, getting exponentially worse, where the desire to make OBSCENE profits has not had a very negative impact on our society? I'm not saying companies should run a welfare system - but there is something to consider in that it's good for people in a country to actually have jobs. It's a society thing, but if all you care about is making money, your country becomes nothing but a lot of haves and have-nots.
Which is exactly what this country is well on the way to becoming. Look at the widening disparity in incomes with people and the rate at which that is getting worse. You don't see a really big problem with that?
The real problem in this country, is that a lot of people don't see a problem with that. Every man for himself. Crappy way to run a society. So before you go calling me a Communist, can you entertain the thought that there is some middle ground and you don't HAVE to be on either extreme of the argument? Nah, our country isn't like that anymore. It's gotta be my, my, my way and I don't care about anyone else.
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RedFordTruck
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Channellock has their imported screwdrivers that ****. Mine was rusting after 3 days. But their Pliers are awesome 
If Channellock started making Chinalock pliers than I think tool users everywhere would **** a brick
If Channellock started making Chinalock pliers than I think tool users everywhere would **** a brick
e-tek
Well-known member
Why don't y'all do something that might actually make a difference: Instead of coming here and crying on each others shoulders (I feel the same way), why don't we all log onto Craftsman's site and tell THEM why they (now) ****?!
Who knows - you might even be start a wave of change that brings them back!
Who knows - you might even be start a wave of change that brings them back!
I saw this too. It's going to be a very different world in twenty five years.
jvitez
Well-known member
Canadian Sears has been quadruped excrement for a long time in the tool department. I never go there. A couple of years ago I was in a US Sears, and it was a "Now I get it!" type of reaction. Lots of good tools, great variety, well presented, most made in USA.
Honestly, if COO didn't matter to me I'd just buy everything Toptul. I'd rather support Taiwan than mainland China anyway.
Honestly, if COO didn't matter to me I'd just buy everything Toptul. I'd rather support Taiwan than mainland China anyway.
gatewaysysop
Well-known member
I did them one better, I simply stopped buying their tools and started spending the money with their competitors who hadn't gone to China. Voting with your wallet, it works for me.
OP
RedFordTruck
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So instead of being Sears=USA made, Lowes Taiwan, and HD China, its China, Taiwan, China.
If the Execs at HD wanted to make an impression on people, They would take advantage of the situation and come out with a full line of USA made tools reasonably priced. Run an advertising campaign for the new USA line and really use some low blows on Sears and Lowes. Because lets face it, right now the Husky line of tools, with few exceptions, just plain blows. Home depot could keep their HDX line of Cheap as dirt Chinese junk, but have a Top Grade, USA made line that they could sell at Craftsman prices.
Id buy em.
If the Execs at HD wanted to make an impression on people, They would take advantage of the situation and come out with a full line of USA made tools reasonably priced. Run an advertising campaign for the new USA line and really use some low blows on Sears and Lowes. Because lets face it, right now the Husky line of tools, with few exceptions, just plain blows. Home depot could keep their HDX line of Cheap as dirt Chinese junk, but have a Top Grade, USA made line that they could sell at Craftsman prices.
Id buy em.
Crappy news. I have two extensions and one socket to exchange for rust issues (new items, never been used). I've been putting it off but will go tomorrow, crossing my fingers they have US stock.
If I was just getting into the game I'd hit up SK, last game in town for affordable US tools. If it wasn't for laser etching on my Craftsman sockets I'd be replacing them (I really like the laser etched stuff).
Just think in a few decades some high quality NOS Craftsman USA sets will go for a pretty penny!
Can't say I didn't see this coming, it was bound to happen, but unless Sears cuts their prices drastically they won't see any uptick in sales.
If I was just getting into the game I'd hit up SK, last game in town for affordable US tools. If it wasn't for laser etching on my Craftsman sockets I'd be replacing them (I really like the laser etched stuff).
Just think in a few decades some high quality NOS Craftsman USA sets will go for a pretty penny!
Can't say I didn't see this coming, it was bound to happen, but unless Sears cuts their prices drastically they won't see any uptick in sales.
Hyster Gareth
Well-known member
Good post Rico,
I dont think there quality is as a good as the USA or Europe but I also refuse to purchase tools made in China due to there atrocious human rights record.
I hate the way Govt's and Mutinationals pander to them!!
Griff93
Well-known member
You just stated the biggest point why I don't go to Sears anymore. If I wanted cheap china tools, I expect them to be cheap IE Harbor Freight. Mac tools apparently hasn't gotten this in their heads either. You think china tools are insulting at Sears USA prices, take a walk around a Mac Truck. They didn't lowerer their prices much if at all when they offshored a bunch of their tools.
bcradio
Well-known member
I know... seriously! Now they have to learn a new skill and get a new job. Oh the horror.
I still feel bad for the old cart and buggy makers that got put out of business with the advent of the automobile... the travesty.
tcianci
Well-known member
Seems like the main reason for this has been missed.... Sears is a publicly traded company...their product is their share price. Once a company is public. the only thing that matters is what the numbers look like THIS QUARTER. If they screw up, the numbers dive, then the next genius gets to step into the batters box to see what he can do for the numbers next quarter. There is no interest on the part of the investor for long term, stable corporations, it's all about the latest numbers and how fast they can make a buck. The corporations know this all too well and that's why they do the stuff they do...they're indebted to the shareholders not their customers and as long as that's how the structure is set up, then moves like what Sears and nearly everyone else are making will be the norm.
shoturtle
Well-known member
Take a guess why hf have been opening up so many new stores. They are opening up other in my area, now I have 4 hf within 45 min. They do sell allot of cheap tools. The quality are not as good as sears or hd's Chinese tools, or lowes taiwan tools. But they are decent tools.
At the end of the day sears has been losing market sear to cheaper tools from their competition, before they started off shoring to china and taiwan. And the cost of buying us made tools has also gone up from their suppliers. And no one has said that they are willing to pay 45 dollars for a us made rp 3/8 dr ratchet. Which I am sure none here will. There are the few eBay fools that would. But not enough to break even.
So I am all for buying us tools. But are some tools I just will not spend armstrong prices on, let alone snap on prices.
So before jumping down sears for doing what they need to to stay in business. Look at the tool market over the las 15 years. Us made tools at a higher price just do not sell well when there are decent cheap tool. Hf tools are decent, no where near sears or lowes. But they have made a big dent that both company shift to lower cost tools. shoot SK went out of business as they could not compete with the low cost tools. And they are not that healthy still. Life support from ideal, keeps them alive.
No one here seems to understand the tool market.
shoturtle
Well-known member
I have been at allot of home builder sites, as my buddy just in the last year finish building his new home. And guess what,there were a ton of Asian husky and kolbalt tools on his lot and all over the development community.
The only sites you see us tools ar major work sites. That uses industrials grade tools, proto, wright, and Williams industrial are what does the work on those kind of sites.
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shoturtle
Well-known member
Why does everyone say sears is charging us prices for Asian tools. Just go to lowes and hd and compare them to sears. They are pretty much the same, with in a few dollars. That is the difference for a pair of levis jeans vs gap. Hf is cheaper, as it is a lower grade. Their tools are decent, not poor. Kinda the old navy jeans compare to the others.
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earlthegoat2
Well-known member
As long as you're going to be buying Asian tools anyway, GearWrench makes better tools than Craftsman China. And they're easily available from ToolTopia. Just sayin'.
This is the boat Im in too. If I cant find vintage USA tools then that is the way I am heading. I have bought a few GW tools on here and have been impresssed enough not to sweat it if it comes to that. Buying new USA tools is getting unaffordable for me right now and I know it has to be the same with plenty of other members here.(who arent running a multi thousand dollar debt with the tool truck that is)
mikefromme
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Well, gang, it looks like Craftsman has finally been taken off of life support.
Saw an Ad in the paper for the 4-piece Craftsman adapter set at 50% off. Went in today to get it, but after I grabbed the $9.99 deal set, i took a look at some extension bars that had different packaging than before.
Then the U-joints.
Then the Drive adapters.
China. China. And you guessed it, China.
Core line of Socket accessories ALL made in China.
The "Made in China" Label was so small my phone couldnt see it clearly.
1/4'' drive Socket Accessory set. Made in China.
3'' 1/2'' drive extension. Notice that TINY little line of writing near the barcode? Made in China. My Phone couldnt even get a clear picture of it.
Exact same Prices as the American ones. Who knows whats next as far as the Chinese made **** goes, but this is it for me. Off I go to another brand! Sears just lost yet another customer!
+whatever on that *****.
I've been filling out my tool set with USA made cm lately. Figured the kids will get a kick out of it someday -- "yeah right you could buy USA tools in a department store!!!!"
Just picked up this set when it was on sale
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-21-p...p-00942283000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1
Everything was USA made
4x4gearhead
Well-known member
Its one thing for them to import, its another to still maintain the same prices on these items. I believe I am done buying craftsman stuff now.
Jeff95TA
Well-known member
Where do you plan on getting the cheap labor to make these tools reasonably priced?
I've been readin gevery post of this thread and wanted to post a response to the thoughts similar to Bill's.
Jim, a very well thought out and written post. Thank you for that post and saving me the time of typing that much.
I have been on their site and gave them plenty of feed back. I've referred them to come here to GJ and read about their own brands. Has anything changed, yes, the last couple of surveys are more in depth. Maybe somebody is starting to pay attention.
The problem is Sears is missing the boat again. As some US companies are bringing production back to the US, Sears is taking Craftsman overseas.
OP
RedFordTruck
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Same place Sears has since whenever. Right now Home depot has the cheapest of the three big box stores. Upgrade the quality and make em in the USA, they can raise their prices to Sears level. Right now a 252 piece mechanics set at HD is Roughly 70 bucks, but its chinese junk. They have in-store demos and you can tell the sockets dont grip the bolts well.
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hard...splay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051
Make it in the USA of a higher quality and Charge 100 bucks for it.
mmack66
Well-known member
Why would you buy it in the first place, thus needing to get your money back?
thetreshon
Well-known member
Not sure if it was posted here yet, but to CONTACT CRAFTSMAN, I just used this link:
http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/nb_10155_12602_NB_CScontactus?adCell=W3
Not sure if it will even be responded too, but let's see. I'll post their response if they do.
Also posted my same comments on their facebook page...and in case you're interested, the facebook page has several comments on the move to China and how people are upset. It's not just us here on GJ.
http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/nb_10155_12602_NB_CScontactus?adCell=W3
Not sure if it will even be responded too, but let's see. I'll post their response if they do.
Also posted my same comments on their facebook page...and in case you're interested, the facebook page has several comments on the move to China and how people are upset. It's not just us here on GJ.
woody 73
Well-known member
Funny but just last night while I was walking in the tool Dept. in lowes a women customer had that lost look in her eyes; so I talked to her and asked if she needed any help. With a big smile she said yes and then proceeded to ask me about buying a Dogbone wrench for her husband.
Well as hard as I could I tried too talk her out of buying that fad but without much luck, she then asked about buying pliers . So of course I took her over to the Channellocks and when she saw the price she turned away asap. She then picked up the cheapest pair of chinese pliers and away she went.
Price wins every time...and Sears must compete.
Well as hard as I could I tried too talk her out of buying that fad but without much luck, she then asked about buying pliers . So of course I took her over to the Channellocks and when she saw the price she turned away asap. She then picked up the cheapest pair of chinese pliers and away she went.
Price wins every time...and Sears must compete.