Final Nail in the Craftsman Coffin.

[Super Sport]

I know... seriously! Now they have to learn a new skill and get a new job. Oh the horror.

I still feel bad for the old cart and buggy makers that got put out of business with the advent of the automobile... the travesty.

Apples to oranges my friend. When we send all of our manufacturing jobs (and in turn, money) overseas, we can't maintain our current standard of living. Service jobs won't do it because they don't bring any moeny back over here.

 

[HandyManny]

Sears has been slowly moving Craftsman in that direction for the last 10 to 15 years now. Then again there was a time period there in the 1980's when most of their main line was being made in Japan and even Taiwan, eventually they had those same tool made in USA again.

I wouldn't say it's a final nail in the coffin for Sears, just a final nail in the coffin for USA made Cman tools. Sears will still be around and so will the Cman name, it just won't be seen as it once was. Back in my day Cman was a great hand tool at a fair retail price. They built a great reputation mainly because most of their tools were being made for them my other high-end pro grade tool makers. No so much these days.

I don't like to see good hand tools that were once USA made now being made in China but it is what it is. Rest assured that at least we still have choices here in the USA (at least for now). If you don't like this new trend in Craftsman then you don't have to buy it. You can let Sears know, but they really listen to profits and if people speak with their wallets as well as their mouths then they will have no choice but to have their tools made here again. Sadly I don't think the rest of the USA could give a **** about this issue.

As for me I've been in Sears a few times lately but have only bought a couple tools from them lately that were still good quality and USA made, but as a whole I'm done with buying tools at Sears. For one I really don't need anything, and for two I was never a diehard enthusiastic Craftsman fan. I do have some Cman tools, but back in the day when I was tooling-up I equipped myself with good tools from other various sources. Back in those days we had a much bigger selection of good quality USA made hand tools from other brands, sources, and sellers.

 

[thetreshon]

Canadian Sears has been quadruped excrement for a long time in the tool department. I never go there. A couple of years ago I was in a US Sears, and it was a "Now I get it!" type of reaction. Lots of good tools, great variety, well presented, most made in USA.

Honestly, if COO didn't matter to me I'd just buy everything Toptul. I'd rather support Taiwan than mainland China anyway.

Yup - Canadian Sears has been **** for 2 decades now I think EXCEPT for their Canadian made screwdrivers and a handful of U.S. made levels, squares.

I only just started going to Sears in the U.S. 3 years ago after (at the time) realizing they weren't the same Craftsman tools as the overseas garbage carried in Canada. Sad to discover that, then in the next few years, to see what's happening now.

I wonder if now, Sears USA, is using the the exact same manufacturers as the Canadian overseas stuff?

 

[thetreshon]

So instead of being Sears=USA made, Lowes Taiwan, and HD China, its China, Taiwan, China.

If the Execs at HD wanted to make an impression on people, They would take advantage of the situation and come out with a full line of USA made tools reasonably priced. Run an advertising campaign for the new USA line and really use some low blows on Sears and Lowes. Because lets face it, right now the Husky line of tools, with few exceptions, just plain blows. Home depot could keep their HDX line of Cheap as dirt Chinese junk, but have a Top Grade, USA made line that they could sell at Craftsman prices.

Id buy em.

I REALLY like this idea...Hopefully Home Depot Canada would carry the same line.

 

[JC23]

I still buy Cman USA tools. But now, I buy them at garage sales, swap meets and flea markets.

I've built a second set of tools that way and am now starting a third. So when I break one, I won't have rely on the China stuff.

 

[thetreshon]

Funny but just last night while I was walking in the tool Dept. in lowes a women customer had that lost look in her eyes; so I talked to her and asked if she needed any help. With a big smile she said yes and then proceeded to ask me about buying a Dogbone wrench for her husband.

Well as hard as I could I tried too talk her out of buying that fad but without much luck, she then asked about buying pliers . So of course I took her over to the Channellocks and when she saw the price she turned away asap. She then picked up the cheapest pair of chinese pliers and away she went.

Price wins every time...and Sears must compete.

That's why you take a second to explain to this woman the difference between the pliers. I've done this SEVERAL times in stores, for some reason almost anywhere I go, people think I'm an employee there - probably because I'm looking at the product, checking the COO - looking at the packaging...they probably think I'm restocking shelves.

I remember shopping at a U.S. Lowes, looking at the clearing out of the U.S. made hand tools, and saw a dude checking out the foreign stuff. I suggested he check out the U.S. stuff, for cheaper prices. He couldn't believe they were getting rid of that stuff for the foreign stuff, and he could get the U.S. stuff for cheaper prices.

Maybe she wouldn't have cared, but some people need to be informed sometimes to change their mind...my brother in-law recently had NO IDEA that whole grains are better than white bread. Where the hell has he been all these years? But, I kept cool, and nicely explained why it's better.

I would have started off telling that woman:

"Oh, pliers...well over here we've got quality American made Channellocks, been around for over 100 years with a lifetime warranty. Then over here, you've got your [foreign] made plier here for half the price, but also half the quality and no resale value - if you have kids, they'll still be using those same Channellocks in 50 years then they'll pass them on to your grandkids."

Something like that....

 

[concealer404]

Danaher is still in business; it's just that Sears is not going to use them as a supplier anymore. You can still get USA Danaher from NAPA.

Until July 1st at least, when Napa starts actively selling their in-house brand that's some SERIOUSLY nice ****.

 

[concealer404]

As for the original topic at hand.... meh.

Craftsman tools have been by and large pretty crappy for the last few years even before they started moving to China. The Pro line of stuff and the sockets were really all that was worth a damn in my opinion.

You were all happy to pay for mediocre tools under a "made in USA" stamp, but now you're not that it's "Made in China" stamped? ****, i'd be more embarrassed and pissed about buying a crappy tool that has "Made In USA" proudly stamped on it. At least now we can blame the crappy tool on China, instead of trying to make excuses why something that was made in the USA isn't OMGAWESOME.

My "Give a **** Meter" is hovering between 0 and 1.

 

[coolreed]

That is disturbing. I have always thought Craftsman hand tools were a good value. I will not purchase any Craftsman Tools not made in USA.

 

[bcradio]

Apples to oranges my friend. When we send all of our manufacturing jobs (and in turn, money) overseas, we can't maintain our current standard of living. Service jobs won't do it because they don't bring any moeny back over here.

We as Americans can't be this narrow minded. Service and manufacturing are not the only two industries we have in the states. Every product that gets manufactured has to be designed by someone. That's another one. My previous comment is spot on with your comment and is all based from capitalism. If we can't manufacture things for cheap, then companies will do so elsewhere. That means the workers will need to learn a new skill (possibly product design?) and get a job doing that. We can't keep doing something just because its the way its been done for so long (hence my buggy comment). We may have to get a new job or better improve/automate our manufacturing here to compete with foreign countries. Fortunately, that's the way life is... always moving forward.

Also, if Sears is making obscene profits, then it sounds like somebody needs to go into business and make tools for slightly less profit to take their market share.

 

[concealer404]

We as Americans can't be this narrow minded. Service and manufacturing are not the only two industries we have in the states. Every product that gets manufactured has to be designed by someone. That's another one. My previous comment is spot on with your comment and is all based from capitalism. If we can't manufacture things for cheap, then companies will do so elsewhere. That means the workers will need to learn a new skill (possibly product design?) and get a job doing that. We can't keep doing something just because its the way its been done for so long (hence my buggy comment). We may have to get a new job or better improve/automate our manufacturing here to compete with foreign countries. Fortunately, that's the way life is... always moving forward.

Also, if Sears is making obscene profits, then it sounds like somebody needs to go into business and make tools for slightly less profit to take their market share.

Carlyle Tools is coming.

 

[bcradio]

Carlyle Tools is coming.

Sign me up

Love to try new tools

 

[otis66]

Or, another option if you guys have access to mobile franchises, I am also finding that Matco's Silver Eagle chrome sockets are very good. Competetively prices (maybe a couple bucks more more than USA-grade Craftsman) but the overall fit & finish, IMHO, is better. I've acquired a few 3/8" and 1/4" sockets to complete some of my lost sets and they hold up nice at my shop...in a professional environment.

The only problem I see with this is having to find a MATCO truck. GearWrench is sold at just about every auto parts store around.

 

[otis66]

Why don't y'all do something that might actually make a difference: Instead of coming here and crying on each others shoulders (I feel the same way), why don't we all log onto Craftsman's site and tell THEM why they (now) ****?!

Who knows - you might even be start a wave of change that brings them back!

I am.... I stop buying Craftsman tools.

 

[sooperdave]

most people nowadays look at all products as disposable - new phone every year or two, new TV every few years, new leased car every three or four years. and when most people make their purchase decision on price, how can a Sears compete with Harbor Freight?

my colleague texted me one day raving about HF prices. my reply was "be careful...u get what you pay for." he bought a 3/8 ratchet and it broke trying to break an oil pan drain plug free!! LMAO

the first time he used the piece of ****! wow

 

[lowbucktruck]

I still buy Cman USA tools. But now, I buy them at garage sales, swap meets and flea markets.

I've built a second set of tools that way and am now starting a third. So when I break one, I won't have rely on the China stuff.

See now, JC has the right game plan here. I'd rather buy second-hand, made-in-USA Craftsman tools than the new CMan made-in-China stuff and have more than one set (space permitting). Heck, if nothing else, gives you a reason to buy another tool chest!

This development with Sears and Craftsman hurts for those of us who grew up using "the good stuff"... but those days are gone. Blame the market economy. Hell, blame NAFTA!
Most of the guys who wander into a Sears to buy tools, are probably oblivious to the COO. I don't mind buying tools made overseas, as long as they are good quality. Like to know I'm getting my money's worth.

 

[HandyManny]

Funny but just last night while I was walking in the tool Dept. in lowes a women customer had that lost look in her eyes; so I talked to her and asked if she needed any help. With a big smile she said yes and then proceeded to ask me about buying a Dogbone wrench for her husband.

Well as hard as I could I tried too talk her out of buying that fad but without much luck, she then asked about buying pliers . So of course I took her over to the Channellocks and when she saw the price she turned away asap. She then picked up the cheapest pair of chinese pliers and away she went.

Price wins every time...and Sears must compete.

That's the way it is for the vast majority of Americans, not only for us, but for others living in developed countries as well. Most average people who don't use tools for a living mostly reach for tools only when they need one and for occasional jobs or repairs. Hard to justify them buying expensive tools for such stuff. I think Channellocks are well within the average consumers budget, but maybe most non-tool people want less.

I have a young nephew who uses tools regularly around his house and in his garage. He's not in any of the trades, doesn't use tools for a living, as he has an office job. He does all the repairs on his own cars, restores old cars for hobby, and fixes all of his own stuff around the house, etc. He won't pay top dollar for high-end tools, instead will buy most stuff from harbor freight or the local auto parts stores. To be honest I think the most expensive tool he has is a set of Duralast off-set box wrenches, and one of his many pliers are Channellock. Everything else is inexpensive Chinese made stuff, yet he gets his tasks done just fine and a lot cheaper than others can.

 

[HandyManny]

That's why you take a second to explain to this woman the difference between the pliers. I've done this SEVERAL times in stores, for some reason almost anywhere I go, people think I'm an employee there - probably because I'm looking at the product, checking the COO - looking at the packaging...they probably think I'm restocking shelves.

I remember shopping at a U.S. Lowes, looking at the clearing out of the U.S. made hand tools, and saw a dude checking out the foreign stuff. I suggested he check out the U.S. stuff, for cheaper prices. He couldn't believe they were getting rid of that stuff for the foreign stuff, and he could get the U.S. stuff for cheaper prices.

Maybe she wouldn't have cared, but some people need to be informed sometimes to change their mind...my brother in-law recently had NO IDEA that whole grains are better than white bread. Where the hell has he been all these years? But, I kept cool, and nicely explained why it's better.

I would have started off telling that woman:

"Oh, pliers...well over here we've got quality American made Channellocks, been around for over 100 years with a lifetime warranty. Then over here, you've got your [foreign] made plier here for half the price, but also half the quality and no resale value - if you have kids, they'll still be using those same Channellocks in 50 years then they'll pass them on to your grandkids."

Something like that....

Personally Most guys today don't even care about that kind of stuf today. And you'd want to explain that stuff to a woman? Maybe the women from my generation are different, but I learned a long time ago that talking about tools to women is something they could care less about.

I pat you on the back and give you thumbs up for trying to be helpful. I'm sure you've steered a few people in the right direction. Just don't be suprised though if you start to become regrded as that weird obsesses guy who hangs out in the aisle looking at every detail of the packages and bugs people. Most people today (including trades people) have better things to do with their time.

 

[HandyManny]

As for the original topic at hand.... meh.

Craftsman tools have been by and large pretty crappy for the last few years even before they started moving to China. The Pro line of stuff and the sockets were really all that was worth a damn in my opinion.

You were all happy to pay for mediocre tools under a "made in USA" stamp, but now you're not that it's "Made in China" stamped? ****, i'd be more embarrassed and pissed about buying a crappy tool that has "Made In USA" proudly stamped on it. At least now we can blame the crappy tool on China, instead of trying to make excuses why something that was made in the USA isn't OMGAWESOME.

My "Give a **** Meter" is hovering between 0 and 1.

I have to 100% agree with you. I've been thinking this all along too. A lot of guys here tend to overlook and excuse defects in tools that are made in USA, yet are unforgiving a lesser defects in Asian sourced tools. Personally I hold USA makers to a higher standard, but many today are falling short, as with many USA made goods, not just tools.

 

[rocco]

that's too bad, i always enjoyed picking up USA made tools everytime i went stateside for vacation or work. Dayum....

 

[Link-Belt]

Some of you guys just don't get it. Are economy here in the US is in shambles. We as Americans need to do everything in our power to try to fix this. It is apparently that our government are only out for themselves.and hookers. To me although imop Craftsman hand tools have always served me well even in a professional setting that's not what it's all about. It is about keeping food on the table and shoes on the children's feet of an American family. Someone in another post said something about pride of the USA stamp house about Pride in yourself or Pride in your fellow American. In the words of the great Meral Haggard "By putten down this country boy, your walking on the fighting side of me."

I personally don't take pride in our government or corporate America to me they are both broken with greed, however I do take pride in being an American and pride in my fellow American.

 

[concealer404]

Some of you guys just don't get it. Are economy here in the US is in shambles. We as Americans need to do everything in our power to try to fix this. It is apparently that our government are only out for themselves.and hookers. To me although imop Craftsman hand tools have always served me well even in a professional setting that's not what it's all about. It is about keeping food on the table and shoes on the children's feet of an American family. Someone in another post said something about pride of the USA stamp house about Pride in yourself or Pride in your fellow American. In the words of the great Meral Haggard "By putten down this country boy, your walking on the fighting side of me."

I personally don't take pride in our government or corporate America to me they are both broken with greed, however I do take pride in being an American and pride in my fellow American.

Pride in America does not mean settling for an inferior product, or paying more than you can afford in able to fix something that you already have.

Doing so hurts the economy further.

It really doesn't matter in this case, though... You think Sears is reading this thread? No.

You want it to change? Don't buy Craftsman anymore. It's pretty simple. Just realize that many of us stopped buying Craftsman years ago when it was still Made in USA because they were not tools to be proud of. "My Fellow American" did not make Craftsman tools i was proud of in recent years, so i'm not going to support that.

On the other hand, i'll keep buying other brands as they come up for good prices from Sears.com, which helps keep that brand in business, and keeps food on American familys' plates in that manner.

But sorry, NOBODY is ever going to guilt trip me into buying an inferior tool for my money.

 

[Link-Belt]

Pride in America does not mean settling for an inferior product, or paying more than you can afford in able to fix something that you already have.

Doing so hurts the economy further.

It really doesn't matter in this case, though... You think Sears is reading this thread? No.

You want it to change? Don't buy Craftsman anymore. It's pretty simple. Just realize that many of us stopped buying Craftsman years ago when it was still Made in USA because they were not tools to be proud of. "My Fellow American" did not make Craftsman tools i was proud of in recent years, so i'm not going to support that.

On the other hand, i'll keep buying other brands as they come up for good prices from Sears.com, which helps keep that brand in business, and keeps food on American familys' plates in that manner.

But sorry, NOBODY is ever going to guilt trip me into buying an inferior tool for my money.

First off man I don't think I was trying to guilt you onto buying Craftsman tools and second off Craftsman tools isn't. What my post was really about.It was about how I personally feel and right now I feel the hostility in your post is unwarranted. Maybe you should reread my post and try to comprehend what I might be saying. Think about it real hard now.

 

[concealer404]

First off man I don't think I was trying to guilt you onto buying Craftsman tools and second off Craftsman tools isn't. What my post was really about.It was about how I personally feel and right now I feel the hostility in your post is unwarranted. Maybe. Maybe you should reread my post and try to comprehend what I might be saying. Think about it real hard now.

No hostility. Just really illustrating there's two sides to it. I thought about it, comprehended it, and that was my reply.


USA made stuff will be back on the map globally when 1) cost is in line with what the majority expect to pay and 2) they make stuff that is BETTER than what you can get elsewhere.

Survival of the fittest and all that.

 

[HandyManny]

Some of you guys just don't get it. Are economy here in the US is in shambles. We as Americans need to do everything in our power to try to fix this. It is apparently that our government are only out for themselves.and hookers. To me although imop Craftsman hand tools have always served me well even in a professional setting that's not what it's all about. It is about keeping food on the table and shoes on the children's feet of an American family. Someone in another post said something about pride of the USA stamp house about Pride in yourself or Pride in your fellow American. In the words of the great Meral Haggard "By putten down this country boy, your walking on the fighting side of me."

I personally don't take pride in our government or corporate America to me they are both broken with greed, however I do take pride in being an American and pride in my fellow American.

Greed is one of those nessesary evils that are required (to some extent) to make Capitalism work. It's what has driven generations of Americans work hard and be ambitous. Unfortunately these days greed is doing more destroying that building. Maybe we have too much greed today for our own good and I'm speaking about all levels of our society today, from the welfare recipient on up to mega billionares. Today there is no promise that the USA made product is made by US citizens or even with USA made equipment. Maybe in the past, most US citizen workers were easier for corporations to employ. Maybe at one time we had highly skilled people who were willing to learn and work hard and endure certain conditions that very few are willing to put up with today, and do it for less money than what Americans demand today. Maybe Americans today have become too good to do skilled labor jobs and we encourage this upcoming generation to go into other lines of work. Maybe that has something to do with a lot of the oursourcing. It's one small piece of a very large puzzle. I don't think there is a single answer as to why.

 

[gsmornot]

Wonder what the percentage of people are that buy tools from Sears and really care where they came from. With the popularity of Wal-Mart and places like it I can't think the number is high. Already we see people in this thread that frequent garage journal that don't care. Either because it does not matter or because they quit buying already before the change.

The main sticking point of this for me is not that Craftsman "had" to make a change to stay alive, its that everywhere you look changes are being made to stay alive. China is freakin' smart if you ask me and for us, Americans, its not a good thing. I hate to see yet another symbol of America and American Made being converted over because it only serves to remind us change is underway. Honestly I don't mind things being made in other countries and buy many things that are. My issue like I said is the companies having to move offshore just to survive. It should not be that way. It should be that we can make many things here and make them well and choose to buy things made other places for how they are made and their unique perspective on how to make something.

 

[Link-Belt]

No hostility. Just really illustrating there's two sides to it. I thought about it, comprehended it, and that was my reply.


USA made stuff will be back on the map globally when 1) cost is in line with what the majority expect to pay and 2) they make stuff that is BETTER than what you can get elsewhere.

Survival of the fittest and all that.

Maybe you do get it but I don't think so I think your only getting part of what I am saying. Not only the economy but America as a whole isn't going to get any better until we as Americans stop looking out for ourselves as number one but more of a united community on a national level as number one. I remember when I was a child my mother sending me to the neighbors house to barrow something she needed for dinner and the neighbor abliged but it worked both ways. This is where our country needs to be.

 

[HandyManny]

Wonder what the percentage of people are that buy tools from Sears and really care where they came from. With the popularity of Wal-Mart and places like it I can't think the number is high. Already we see people in this thread that frequent garage journal that don't care. Either because it does not matter or because they quit buying already before the change.

The main sticking point of this for me is not that Craftsman "had" to make a change to stay alive, its that everywhere you look changes are being made to stay alive. China is freakin' smart if you ask me and for us, Americans, its not a good thing. I hate to see yet another symbol of America and American Made being converted over because it only serves to remind us change is underway. Honestly I don't mind things being made in other countries and buy many things that are. My issue like I said is the companies having to move offshore just to survive. It should not be that way. It should be that we can make many things here and make them well and choose to buy things made other places for how they are made and their unique perspective on how to make something.

Something to keep in mind is that in the good old days of many USA made products, and a bygone era I happened to come of age in, I don't know if we nessesarily made the "Best" quality stuff, it was simply that most Americans only knew the stuff that was available to them at the time, and most of that stuff just happened to be American made with the technology of the day. This country also produced a lot of economy grade stuff too, not everyone back then could afford the "best", in fact most middle class and working class Americans of those days lived within their means and made due with many economy grade products. This coming from a guy who came of age in the early 1950's from a working/middle class upbringing.

 

[RedFordTruck]

http://commerce.idaho.gov/news/2009/02/buck-knives-shifts-production-from-asia-to-post-falls.aspx

High Quality products can be made here at competitive prices.

 

[concealer404]

Maybe you do get it but I don't think so I think your only getting part of what I am saying. Not only the economy but America as a whole isn't going to get any better until we as Americans stop looking out for ourselves as number one but more of a united community on a national level as number one. I remember when I was a child my mother sending me to the neighbors house to barrow something she needed for dinner and the neighbor abliged but it worked both ways. This is where our country needs to be.

I get that...

But, how does this apply to the discussion at hand, that being "Craftsman going to China?"

 

[franzdom]

Top me it is political. I don't mind Taiwan or Japan but China just somehow bothers me.
Reminds me of who we were really fighting in Viet Nam I think.

 

[Link-Belt]

I get that...

But, how does this apply to the discussion at hand, that being "Craftsman going to China?"

Exactly nothing and everything at the same time. Somewhere along the way Americans stopped caring about how there follow American made there living (probably around the time of the free trade act) Americans started buying overseas products meaning less profit for American Companys forcing so much change because the owners of those just couldn't be happy with being rich they have to be super rich.So there greed forces infearior materials less employs and less training for those employs so corporate.America can line there pockets. If Americans had resisted the government.allowed invasion called free trade act I personally think we would be better off ad a country as a whole and still care that our neighbors have a job that pays enough to support there family.

 

[concealer404]

Exactly nothing and everything at the same time. Somewhere along the way Americans stopped caring about how there follow American made there living (probably around the time of the free trade act) Americans started buying overseas products meaning less profit for American Companys forcing so much change because the owners of those just couldn't be happy with being rich they have to be super rich.So there greed forces infearior materials less employs and less training for those employs so corporate.America can line there pockets. If Americans had resisted the government.allowed invasion called free trade act I personally think we would be better off ad a country as a whole and still care that our neighbors have a job that pays enough to support there family.

So... capitalism is what caused this. I hate to be callous here, but i really don't see a problem. (Beyond the tax loopholes for overseas production being used for "USA" companies.) Personally, my neighbors have nothing to do with what tools i buy. (Yes, i realize you didn't literally mean my neighbors down the street. )

 

[RedFordTruck]

 

[Link-Belt]

So... capitalism is what caused this. I hate to be callous here, but i really don't see a problem. (Beyond the tax loopholes for overseas production being used for "USA" companies.) Personally, my neighbors have nothing to do with what tools i buy. (Yes, i realize you didn't literally mean my neighbors down the street. )

Do you buy tools made over seas? If not then nothing, if so you have taken money from your fellow Americans pocket.

 

[TwoInch]

so what happens when there are none left? as in middle to top grade tools, made in the USA?

thats what im worried about. i feel that in the next ten years, unless there is a drastic change in what is happening here, there will be very little to none left.

 

[terry603]

saving jobs is great,,how many jobs do you think we save if sears finally does fail
many more thousands of people than any one factory has

why does no one seem to care about sears workers?

 

[Danglerb]

Easy to not buy any China Craftsman, but its going to be messy when they try to warranty a US tool with a China tool.

 

[Link-Belt]

saving jobs is great,,how many jobs do you think we save if sears finally does fail
many more thousands of people than any one factory has

why does no one seem to care about sears workers?

Pretty much what I've been posting about for the last few hours.

 

[RangerDaleXp]

I preffer to buy U.S. made but not at 7 to 10 times the cost of an item. I also would not pay $100 for 3/8 ratchet made in China either. If a ratchet is made in taiwan and is well made for $20 to $30 I will chose it over the $100 one from Snap On or Matco.