Final Nail in the Craftsman Coffin.
- Thread starter RedFordTruck
- Start date
shoturtle
Well-known member
I am big on proto tools, 90 dollars for a set of 3/8 deep sockets vs 30 dollars. Is the avg diy going to get the 90 or the 30 dollar set both made in the USA, proto is the much nicer set? Or 56 dollars for a 41t 3/8 ratchter or 23 dollars for the taiwan slim profile or 21 of the rp? Which on will the avg consumer choose.
Super Sport
Well-known member
Armstrong is probably the closest replacement since they are both made by Danaher. SK, Proto, and Wright are all good alternatives, but all more expensive as well.
Stopped by Sears today and the store employees were hanging Chinese extensions and adapters, which have a different colored label on them. No imported RP wrenches yet.
RangerDaleXp
Well-known member
I wonder how many of these post on this thread is being done by a computer or phone that is 100% USA made 
.
.kc-steve
Well-known member
I recently bought several Craftsman wrench sets with the manufacturer code of V inverted V indicating they were made by Armstrong.
Steve
I wonder how many of these post on this thread is being done by a computer or phone that is 100% USA made
I catch your drift, but for some of us, tools need to be either USA made or German made. It's something that's hard to explain.
I do trun a wrench for a living and do use some craftsamn tools. the rest are mac and snap on. It does **** that c man is goin all china , seem that's where everything I from. I am 23 so I don't rember alll the good old days when everything was made here but I do take pride in usa made things espically my tools. I buy allot of mac but not the china ****. Pay the good money still get the good mac tools. Honestly the only china tools I got really are my gp socket set 3/8 metric deep. All the rest of my impacts are mac and snap on. But really those sockets are pretty good. I work at a small shop and ya the price of tools does have some affect of what I buy but I try to buy according to my budget cuz I dnt want a huge tool bill. I do have a nice box that's paid for and iv got abt ten grand in tools all paid except for 800 I owe to snap on. Just want to say I see it both ways. ***** that its putting americans out of work, but for they guys out there that can't afford to buy off the trucks guess that's where the china stuff comes in.
RangerDaleXp
Well-known member
OP
RedFordTruck
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 10, 2012
- Messages
- 921
Is made in India worse than made in China?
Ive seen some extremely cheap wrench sets that were made in India.
Ive seen some extremely cheap wrench sets that were made in India.
usually MUCH worse
Toolhorder
Well-known member
I wonder how many of these post on this thread is being done by a computer or phone that is 100% USA made
That argument is flawed since you literally can not buy a USA made phone or computer. At least as of this post you have a choice and I'm pissed off that companies are taking away that choice just to please shareholders and justify their overinflated salaries. They should be strung up as traitors selling out our country they way they are. What's really sad is how the average American is oblivious to what's happening or doesn't care.
Link-Belt
Well-known member
That argument is flawed since you literally can not buy a USA made phone or computer. At least as of this post you have a choice and I'm pissed off that companies are taking away that choice just to please shareholders and justify their overinflated salaries. They should be strung up as traitors selling out our country they way they are. What's really sad is how the average American is oblivious to what's happening or doesn't care.
BRAVO!!!!
Damn the man save the empire.
OP
RedFordTruck
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 10, 2012
- Messages
- 921
I saw a 42'' TV at Target that the box was an American flag and it said "Proudly Assembled in the USA" In big letters on the Front. I forget what brand it was though.
This was last week.
This was last week.
RangerDaleXp
Well-known member
There is a difference of Assembled in the USA and made in the USA. Made is 100% American components used and Assembled is almost 100% overseas components and assembled by US citizens and possibly even illegal aliens in a US assembly building
.RangerDaleXp
Well-known member
That argument is flawed since you literally can not buy a USA made phone or computer. At least as of this post you have a choice and I'm pissed off that companies are taking away that choice just to please shareholders and justify their overinflated salaries. They should be strung up as traitors selling out our country they way they are. What's really sad is how the average American is oblivious to what's happening or doesn't care.
I agree, Maybe just a little bit. But we are talking tools and computers are considered as tools. As well as code scanners and other electronic tools used on in the diagnostics of automobiles and trucks which are most likely made overseas or assembled here with components made overseas.
I agree with you that it *****.....
Patrick123
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 31, 2012
- Messages
- 229
Seems to me for Craftsman level tools people would be better off buying Kobalt or Gearwrench now. With more Sears stores closing and the ones staying open having less in stock I would just as soon go to Lowes. But I think the best deals are buying better brand US tools used like Matco, SK etc.
My computer does not say Craftsman on it.
Mister Moose
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 24, 2012
- Messages
- 131
... I'm pissed off that companies are taking away that choice just to please shareholders and justify their overinflated salaries. They should be strung up as traitors selling out our country they way they are. What's really sad is how the average American is oblivious to what's happening or doesn't care.
Wait.
Shareholders deserve a return on their investment. Some of those shareholders are everyday working folks who are saving and investing for their future and/or retirement. All companies need to make a profit to expand, re-invest, conduct R&D, and pay the investors who put up the capital and took the risk. Profit is not a dirty word.
In the same way the radio changed the world, so did the internet and large container shipping. It is relatively cheap to ship world wide now. Asian labor (and lots of other places too) is cheaper than the US. Your standard of living is higher due to the low cost of goods provided by these low cost of labor countries. As for the jobs lost from asian tools, get over it. They aren't coming back anymore than the textile mill jobs here in New England that went south, or the buggy whip jobs in Westfield Mass. The chinese copy. They have no innovation. Look at Apple as an example. Although the product manufacturing may be outsourced to asia, the profit is here, the designers and engineers are here. Those products are sold worldwide in huge numbers.
The world is changing faster. Thinking you can keep the same job for a lifetime is poor planning now. It is more likely you will need to constantly re-educate yourself to keep up, and possibly change careers at least once. This is due to the dynamic, changing wonderful world we live in. Embrace it.
RangerDaleXp
Well-known member
True, but some of the software that comes with the craftsman code scanners and diagnostic softwares requires the use of a computer.
Anyways, this thread opened up a much wider argument a long time ago
..The main problem is with the consumer. If the consumer demanded high quality tools and was willing to pay the increased costs, the share holder at the other end would also demand that the company manufacture a quality product to meet the consumer's demand.
RangerDaleXp
Well-known member
I personally would not like Craftsman to go overseas, but I will continue to buy tools from them regardless. I do think I will consider more Kobalt over craftsman because I prefer Taiwan over China in tools and they are more stable then sears is at this time and they are closer to where I live....
RangerDaleXp
Well-known member
The consumer? Yes a little bit. It comes down to profits and Labor cost as well as politics allowing companies to outsource. Personaly I would pay a little more for a USA made ratchet but not 7 to 10 times more. I dont think any ratchet is worth over $100 unless it is a collector
.Toolhorder
Well-known member
That's not the main problem. The main problem is corp. greed.
Toolhorder
Well-known member
I disagree. Shareholders deserve a return but not at the cost of our country. I don't embrace the one world order global thinking BS. It's a shame what's been allowed to happen to our country. Start learning Chinese for your "career change" and embrace communism. It will probably happen in our lifetime.
True, but some of the software that comes with the craftsman code scanners and diagnostic softwares requires the use of a computer.
Anyways, this thread opened up a much wider argument a long time ago
I don't have any Craftsman Scanners either. OTC scanner. No need to go to SEARS.
I agree no reason to buy Craftsman at this point, that was their last selling point for me.
That being said, most people outside pro mechanics aren't going to be buying tools off a truck and they have a few places to choose from. Harbor Freight is decent stuff at good prices, Lowes & HD seem to be getting "up there" close to where Craftsman USA was priced. SK is a pretty big step up and is more of a novelty brand and has to be mailed or most places.
So really Harbor Freight, Sears, Lowes, and HD are the only competitors on Main Street, USA. Harbor Freight offers the same amount of tools, and in most cases exceeds, what Sears has to offer so it's no surprise they have been so successful. Lowes and HD are more of the guy assembling a lawn mower or swing set.
shoturtle
Well-known member
Stop buying the party line and blaming the corporations. They will give the consumer what they want if it make money. And unless the consumer demand made in the USA and willing to pay the higher prices. You will not see to many affordable US made tools or products.
Blaming Sears for corporate greed is just excusing the consumers that follow the walmart thinking. Make them cheaper at all cost so I can buy more regardless of where it comes form. The US consumer is not willing to pay the cost for products made in the US still.
There are a shift back to the US in manufacturing, but those are large items with much larger cost savings when they shift to build things in right to work states vs asia. As shipping cost is high, and land taxes is high in china with a not so stable power grid that cause rolling brown outs in the summer months. You will see US made jet engines, US made major appliances, and other large items. But the tool, it may take a while. As each tool does not have the returns to invest in a major factory in a right to work state. And they are not going to shift back to a non business friendly states. As they will not be able to make a product low cost enough to compete with the low price demand of the consumer.
Toolhorder
Well-known member
Huh?? You think they don't have a role in this and you blame the consumer instead? The consumer is the biggest victim. It's a vicious cycle and the companies started it not consumers. They wouldn't crave cheap **** if it wasn't shoved down their throats in the first place.
The party line comment is lost on me. I don't follow any of them. I just call it how I see it I'm not a hippy occupy protester at all.
shoturtle
Well-known member
I do not look at the consumer as the victim here, consumers choose what they buy where they buy. And why has walmart and big boxes exploded. Because the consumer empower those company.
There is plenty of places to get quality stuff. But people are not breaking down the doors of those retailers that sell higher quality stuff.
I have every choice in NYC, and hate to say it the high end and above avg grade stores do not do the big business as the bargain stores and have been hurting more then the bargain stores. Stores like Old Navy, and H&M out sell J. Crew, Esprite and other higher end retailer. So no one is shoving low end product down my thought. It is consumer want more for their dollars.
There is plenty of places to get quality stuff. But people are not breaking down the doors of those retailers that sell higher quality stuff.
I have every choice in NYC, and hate to say it the high end and above avg grade stores do not do the big business as the bargain stores and have been hurting more then the bargain stores. Stores like Old Navy, and H&M out sell J. Crew, Esprite and other higher end retailer. So no one is shoving low end product down my thought. It is consumer want more for their dollars.
Toolhorder
Well-known member
I guess what I'm saying is the retailer/company, etc.. started it. Consumers didn't get together and tell Walmart to sell out to the Chinese to make products cheaper and they promised to buy more. Some greedy higher up decided it would be better for the company and they did it. The consumer part is the after effect.
Crackheads like to smoke rock too but they didn't cook it and supply the streets with the junk. Your point is like saying if the crack heads didn't want it so much then they would snort cocaine which is 4-5X the cost.
shoturtle
Well-known member
And a simple point that say the US consumer is part of the problem and do not deserve the status of victim. Craftsman has a 84T made in the USA ratchet. But it is not a big seller at sears. The consumer is not willing to pay the 60 dollars for the 3/8 dr or the 50 for the 1/4 dr. They are made in the USA, and is cheaper then it's competitors high end ratchet, but just as good. But you still do not see them selling a ton of those ratchet.
shoturtle
Well-known member
No actually the consumer actually jumped on the walmart bandwagon and reward them with even more sales. When walmart started selling cheaper stuff, the consumer went in droves. All that did was drive out the little guy that sold higher quality stuff that cost more. There were more shops before walmart, but after the walmart thinking. Only other big box stores could compete with the giant the consumer help build.
How are they a victim, when they help create what they have.
Link-Belt
Well-known member
Wow, really now you guys are taking cracks at Unions? Can you guys not see most consumers in the US don't buy USA tools because they can't afford to and I say we can't afford to because of corporate greed. Corporations control inflation and have cut wages and inflated prices to line there pockets not giving a damn about what the consumer wants because they've figured out a way to force us to by cheaper quality that they still make a huge profit on. Calling strong Union states non business friendly may be true but at least they got the balls to stand up to these corporate over lords for the working mans right. Lets not forget who brought you sanitary working conditions, fair pay,40 hour weeks,, and the weekend. If your going to put it out there call it what it is business friendly states to the working man and consumer are right to starve states.
shoturtle
Well-known member
then you do not understand what a global economies is. If the US companies do not drive down cost. A chinese company, will just come in a buy their name when the company goes belly up. And have production of that product in China.
It is all covered in globalization 101 in collage back when I was in collage in the early 90's. There is nothing you can do when you open the pandora's box of globalization. First world countries will boom, which we did in the 80' and 90's. Then suffer till the rest of the world catches up. And that US worker needs to realized they are competing for against workers all over the world now. There is no way to maintain a high wage for manufacturing when you have to compete against china and the emerging india.
And those right to work states realized if they want keep a piece of that world pie, they need to make it profitable and lucrative for companies to do business in their states.
And if you go with the old way of thinking, those states that do not adapted, will just keep seeing work leave and more people losing their jobs. And blame the companies for it. The ones that stay, will most likely be folding up and closing shop.
Most companies are now multinational. GE, GM, Ford, Boeing, Danaher, Snap On and so on and so on. Because if they do not keep a global present, they will be left behind.
It is all covered in globalization 101 in collage back when I was in collage in the early 90's. There is nothing you can do when you open the pandora's box of globalization. First world countries will boom, which we did in the 80' and 90's. Then suffer till the rest of the world catches up. And that US worker needs to realized they are competing for against workers all over the world now. There is no way to maintain a high wage for manufacturing when you have to compete against china and the emerging india.
And those right to work states realized if they want keep a piece of that world pie, they need to make it profitable and lucrative for companies to do business in their states.
And if you go with the old way of thinking, those states that do not adapted, will just keep seeing work leave and more people losing their jobs. And blame the companies for it. The ones that stay, will most likely be folding up and closing shop.
Most companies are now multinational. GE, GM, Ford, Boeing, Danaher, Snap On and so on and so on. Because if they do not keep a global present, they will be left behind.
Last edited:
Toolhorder
Well-known member
How could they buy them when they were never marketed, stocked on shelves, couldn't be found easily on the companies website??? Not really a good example. I would buy those ratchets any day of the week but they don't sell a set package at any of the stores and they barely even have singles.
See some bean counter decided that selling "universal" black oxide ratchets was a better plan since they cost the company nickels on the dollar to product and dummy consumers wouldn't notice a difference. The new generation of Americans are all about "me me me me" and could care less about where they were made.
shoturtle
Well-known member
Supply and demand, the sears I go to have couple of each size on their shelfs. And the sales guys say even on sale. They do not really move. And the 3 sears I go to has high foot traffic and good sales.
It is a tool, not a whole lot of marketing. It is not a high turn over item.
Also the high end craftsman have never sold well, even when everything were still made in the USA. The consumer did not buy the craftsman pro, they brought the bread and butter RP stuff.
Last edited:
Link-Belt
Well-known member
Code:
I think I said something about this earlyer today about how free trade act was a mistake a government allowed invasion of our Country.Global Economics doesn't work and now Americans are paying the price.
Again I say to you and everyone else that's not getting this
Ask not what your country can do for you but what can you do for your Country.