What do the Chinese think about tool brands?

[Rico.]

This morning (6/19/2012), it was reported on CNBC.com that there are now more millionaires in Asia than in the USA.

. . . The times, they are a-changin' . . .

That just sounds like a typical headline grabber to me.... You have to put it into perspective.

The whole of Asia includes about 48 Countries..... The USA includes 1

The population of Asia is about 3,900,000,000 (3.9 Billion people) nearly 2/3rds of the entire world

The population of the USA is about 300,000,000 (300 Million)


The times maybe changing, but perhaps not quite as fast as the headlines would have us believe.

 

[RKA]

I was there (Shanghai) 2x a few years ago.

All the tools used locally were REALLY poor quality. Ladders were hand-made from scraps. Rolling scaffold would have been scrapped anywhere but the worst contractors in the States. The bent up aluminum ladder was used as a mop drying rack. The hammer drill was a worn out, clapped out POS. The guy cutting steel tube was using a grinder with bearings so worn it had to be started by hand, and spun up to speed before contacting the tube. Electrical cords were horrifying.

BUT the job got done.

When I asked my chinese project manager, he said chinese people prefer cheap to good every time. They would rather buy just good enough and wear it out, than buy expensive. They are capable of producing quality, and can afford it in many cases. But if it's not a luxury status good, they won't buy it.

That's pretty much what I would have expected. The other thing people don't seem to realize is there is less of a mentality to DIY things in some other countries. If something needs fixing, you call someone that has tools and the ability to fix it. It doesn't cost much and if it does cost too much, you live with it the way it is. Buying and particularly storing tools does cost some and with space at such a premium, they would much rather use a drawer to store kitchen knives than screwdrivers. I don't think I have any relatives overseas that own any tool beyond a crappy screwdriver. And if I asked them where I could buy "good tools" I'm not even sure they would know.

 

[RKA]

That just sounds like a typical headline grabber to me.... You have to put it into perspective.

The whole of Asia includes about 48 Countries..... The USA includes 1

The population of Asia is about 3,900,000,000 (3.9 Billion people) nearly 2/3rds of the entire world

The population of the USA is about 300,000,000 (300 Million)


The times maybe changing, but perhaps not quite as fast as the headlines would have us believe.

Well, they compared Asia to North America, but your point is still very true. They (purposely) didn't talk about numbers and percentages. Despite that, there is a shift of wealth going on and a rising number of uber-wealthy people in all corners of Asia. There has been a rise in the standard of living across the low, middle and upper-middle classes, but nothing that reflects the rise in wealth of the uber-wealthy, if that makes any sense.

 

[HandyManny]

Yep I would agree with, I think Britain also went through a version of this along time ago and then hit the big time building railways in the 1800s, its tailed off and we now have very little mass production as we cannot compete with.

1. The American work ethic

2. the efficiency of the Germans or Japanese

3. the cheap price of Asian goods

However its not all bad news, as I think Britain has emerged in a better place by not trying to compete with these countries and concentrating on bespoke designer products and strong engineering.

If you look at our car manufacturing its all premium branded stuff like Range Rover/Jaguar/Aston Martin/Rolls Royce and even the MINI brand (who would have believed that would happen).

Morgan/Noble and even McLaren have proved you can sell high end products worldwide that are made in a country many have written off. Even Triumph motorcycles are being produced in reasonable numbers again.

I think our future is selling quirky British products that people buy as a luxury item. And the sooner we stop trying to compete for market share the better.

Just sell something interesting and charge more for it

Americans still have a work ethic?? When did we get that good virtue back? Oh you must be talking about the older generations, right?

 

[HandyManny]

Most, if not all, of Chinese war machinery is based off other designs that they've (poorly, usually) replicated. They were capable of building some nice AK clones a while back, but I don't believe they have anything in their arsenal that we'd need to worry about short of the sheer number of their conscript army - and for that to matter, they'd need to land on US dirt, and I don't think that would happen. In the 40s or 50s, the current Chinese army would have been pretty scary, but they sort of missed the memo on the inefficiency of conscript armies, especially in the face of a highly trained and very well-equipped enemy.

There's some media scare going on now and then about new Chinese weapons, but it'll amount to nothing in the end. The Chinese are much more adept in planning and carrying out economic warfare and, little attention as there is in that area now, that's where we should be worried.

I'm willing to bet that the Chinese stand a much better chance of putting a man on the moon in the near future than we do. We were once progressive minded giants in the world. Not so much anymore. Better wake up America!

 

[HandyManny]

When I asked my chinese project manager, he said chinese people prefer cheap to good every time. They would rather buy just good enough and wear it out, than buy expensive. They are capable of producing quality, and can afford it in many cases. But if it's not a luxury status good, they won't buy it.

Wait a minute!! That kind of sounds familiar.....oh yeah I see a lot of that here in our country too.

 

[HandyManny]

Look at those ancient Chinese "Kung Fu" Swords if you dont believe China can do quality metal work

Not sure if they still teach history in the public school system anymore, or if those students actually listen and learn, but historically speaking the Chinese have invented a lot of technology that we copied and use. Also the fact that they were developing advanced metallurgy centuries ago that eventually spread to Europe through the middle east, but the Europeans took credit for that technology. In fact the Crusades along with eastern culture invasions of parts of Europe spread a lot of technology in the middle ages that was unknown to Europeans at the time. Norther Europeans were still running around in animal skins when the eastern cultures were developing stuff that we still can't replicate or explain today.

 

[sberry]

When I asked my Chinese project manager, he said Chinese people prefer cheap to good every time. They would rather buy just good enough and wear it out, than buy expensive. They are capable of producing quality, and can afford it in many cases

There is some merit in this. I saw a set of polish end wrenches, HF or something about 15$, 20 of them or so. I have used some, they work. Take a job, pick one, say starter on a pickup, guy buys 15 dollar wrenches out of pocket, has some money in his pocket when its done if he is charging rate. If he buys a hi dollar set of wrenches on payment he has put the 15 toward about 1/4 of the first of 24, ha.

4 times the work. If I had to start over again I would really consider what Mechanic John did, take 5 grand even if I had to put it on credit card and get every HF hand tool set they make and some extra goodies, replace what didn't work on a piece by piece basis. Or,,, buy just what I needed as needed if there was convenient shopping, work only 4 days a week, spend the 5th morning fiddling at the discount store for a few things on occasion, maybe a flea mkit or 2 here or there and I can tell you for a stone fact I could make a living with 800$ in discount and used tools.

Need some odd ball thing, pick it up at any common auto parts anymore, I needed specialty wrench the other day, had it delivered with the part for 1/4 the truck price and unless I do another Northstar water pump in the future could be packed away and spending 300$ on one wouldn't have helped. I also don't need every single wrench in every style in full sets, I live buy common combination wrenches about 95% of the time and find something special if needed, get duplicates, (in my case multiples) of common sizes, want good other tools buy the brand stuff on sale, vise grip, Channelok, etc. Even cheap adjustable wrenches for the most part have got pretty good anymore, I actually carry a 12 inch China on my pickup, I like it better and the jaw opens one size wider than a Proto. Bought it in a 4 wrench set on sale at the auto parts under their brand for 16$, they work so well they have entered general circulation and do not distinguish from the rest.

 

[HandyManny]

4 times the work. If I had to start over again I would really consider what Mechanic John did, take 5 grand even if I had to put it on credit card and get every HF hand tool set they make and some extra goodies, replace what didn't work on a piece by piece basis. Or,,, buy just what I needed as needed if there was convenient shopping, work only 4 days a week, spend the 5th morning fiddling at the discount store for a few things on occasion, maybe a flea mkit or 2 here or there and I can tell you for a stone fact I could make a living with 800$ in discount and used tools.

Need some odd ball thing, pick it up at any common auto parts anymore, I needed specialty wrench the other day, had it delivered with the part for 1/4 the truck price and unless I do another Northstar water pump in the future could be packed away and spending 300$ on one wouldn't have helped. I also don't need every single wrench in every style in full sets, I live buy common combination wrenches about 95% of the time and find something special if needed, get duplicates, (in my case multiples) of common sizes, want good other tools buy the brand stuff on sale, vise grip, Channelok, etc. Even cheap adjustable wrenches for the most part have got pretty good anymore, I actually carry a 12 inch China on my pickup, I like it better and the jaw opens one size wider than a Proto. Bought it in a 4 wrench set on sale at the auto parts under their brand for 16$, they work so well they have entered general circulation and do not distinguish from the rest.

You make a good point. I too have a Chinese made adjustable in my pick-up. It's an Irwin 15 inch adjustable. Tool store manager who's a friend of mine gave me one to try because they were going to be selling them soon. He let me keep it for the feedback. It mostly gets used to tighten ball hitch nuts and it's every bit the quality of many USA made adjustables, but wider capacity. The phosphate finish on it is nothing special, just very utilitarian, much like old phosphate finished adjustables.

 

[sberry]

Just fix a mower adjustment that came in, used 5 tools, every one a different brand including a China socket that mysteriously keeps finding its way back. My bud bought one off the truck a while back for replacement when he was in a jamb, 30$, someone probably gave me this one and it was in a common size,, but the thing has worked flawless, probably cost a quarter when it was new.

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

I'm willing to bet that the Chinese stand a much better chance of putting a man on the moon in the near future than we do. We were once progressive minded giants in the world. Not so much anymore. Better wake up America!

If you're talking about a government-funded program, completely true. But, I've been able to do a (tiny) bit of work related to the Space X Dragon program, and those guys are extremely dedicated to getting a private venture spacecraft working. They had a successful launch a few weeks ago, and I'd put some money on the project being a major success.

Now, a US government-funded space program...nope, we had to cut ours off at the ankles to fund our $750 billion (a year) welfare program. Ignore the huge technological windfalls our space program gave us, it's more important to make sure people too lazy to work can eat!

 

[sberry]

You make a good point. I too have a Chinese made adjustable in my pick-up. It's an Irwin 15 inch adjustable. Tool store manager who's a friend of mine gave me one to try because they were going to be selling them soon. He let me keep it for the feedback. It mostly gets used to tighten ball hitch nuts and it's every bit the quality of many USA made adjust ables, but wider capacity. The phosphate finish on it is nothing special, just very utilitarian, much like old phosphate finished adjust ables.

A guy can afford one almost at will if he needs if for not much more than lunch money and is perfect for that kind of work. I for one think the advent of China tools had been a boon to the world including many aspects in this country, it has forced some competition in second line brands and its amazing to me at some level that I can buy a 9/16 end wrench that works as good as it does for a dollar retail. For the cost of a truck brand I can put 2 dozen wrenches in circulation that perform excellent, 30$, comparatively would cost me 700$, even if I got 50% would be near 400 to do the same function.

These types of tools are so cheap they are almost considered a consumable like a welding rod or grinding wheel, cost me 10$ a year to replace lost wrenches. I can toss 2 everywhere they are needed. Some of them I like particular on occasion. Even paying retail, 4$ for a 3/4 impact socket off the shelf, 9/16 I bought was under 3 in a single, lifetime off the shelf by a vendor I already use. I broke one once,,, a 3/4 we had ran thru 1000's of cycles building steel building and heavy equipment, they brought me a new one same day. I broke a 1 1/8 out of a good set, don't even remember who made it but just toss and replace with a couple Duro, all is well. 8$ and I got 2 new ones.

I probably can count on my fingers the common China hand tools I have broken over the years, not those 5$ 40 piece socket sets although I have a few extensions and sockets that survived but general tools and at the point we did break something it had well earned its keep and then some times over. Maybe a half a dozen end wrenches including 3 or 4 1.49 specials where I used as back up for hundreds of cycles with impact. Loosened thousands of bolts in clamps, some we did air ratchet, some we break with impacts.

 

[sberry]

The China combination wrench has allowed us to duplicate, quadruplicate and in some cases 10 the available hand tools, its no longer a guy wrenching decision to throw an extra adjustable in a truck, etc. I got screw drivers that have managed to stay in service decades we paid a dollar for at the bin, some of the odd I actually like, makes it easy to tell apart. I bought some Channelok nut drivers, 7 1/16, USA for dollar a piece, should have got 6 more and would like to find them at that price in 5/16, could use a dozen easy, now its 5 bucks a pop at Menards or more for Klein's.

 

[sberry]

I had been considering a set of Gearwrenches, just never bought any so the other day I am waiting in a Sears and take a spin thru the tools, they having a sale and pricing structure interestes me, they had about 6 sets of a couple flavors on sale but one cought my eye at 20 pieces for 60$, I scored them. I figure if they solve a problem or 2 they will be worth it.

They have never really been able to duplicate a couple things at a cheap price level. Vise Grips, Channeloks and wire cutting pliers. A knock off number 9 size cutter works for a while, good for amount of time if you are fussy but its a tool I brutalize and the cutter dulls especially if cutting hardened wire or the occasional screw, I can cut a 1/4 soft bolt easily, cut pull pound and tighten hose clamps with the same tool.

A lot of times when you are in the field you are already up a creek and a poor tool is about as good as none. I had bought 4 pair of vise g style things at the farm store, like 2 for 5$ and they actually did work out for a couple clamp jobs in remotesville but had a pair on a cart the other day out in the sticks, was the only tool I had and needed to twist out a tight fitting, they gave it up, I tossed them, no matter how cheap it really wasnt reliable enough for our use in that environment and the brand name can be had for not much more than 10$ bill.

 

[bcradio]

Americans still have a work ethic?? When did we get that good virtue back? Oh you must be talking about the older generations, right?

Of course Americans have work ethic... its hard work trying to convince the govt that we need more money for food stamps or that unemployment should be extended to 299 weeks or that we should get disability and cheap housing for the rest of our lives because we have constant headaches and are allergic to everything.

Makes my head hurt just thinking about all that work.

 

[HandyManny]

Yeah I hear you sberry. It kind of reminds me of the 3 year old 6" Iwin Mechanics Vise that my younger neighbor bought for use in his home garage. He often asks me for help and advise on repairing and maintaining his vehicles. I've helped him with some larger jobs in the recent past and since the work is done in his garage I use his vise a few times. Seems like a good vise for being supposed "Chinese made junk" as some here call them. Funny thing is that you read the thread all about vises on this forum and what the OP of that thread states is a quality vise, you can find many of those same criteria in the 6" Irwin vise, minus the USA origin of course. Truth be told, the older consumer grade USA made Columbian home-shop or work-shop vises of years past weren't all that much better than the equivelent you see at home center today.

 

[sberry]

While its true there are plenty of loafers on the public dole there are others that bled plenty out of the goverment. We got plenty of the smartest most industrious fukkers on the planet at the public trough too. I really dont think we can lay all the blame for the shape this country is in on a bunch of couch sittin chip eaters. I mean, they aint helping the situation a lot but they aint the ones sitting around with pals cooking up all these big schemes that were sposed to be so good for us, how they were gonna straighten it out, etc.
Anyone seriously think we can blame welfare rats for all these big shemes, hell, even the democrats look like stars in some cases. Hell I am a slight right fiscal conservative, slightly liberal morally, life long republican but this country really fukked up when they didnt elect Gore, it would have at least set back a whole generation that by any objective comparision really stuck it in and broke if off in the avg joe in this country.

The genius was getting enopugh blue collar and a few religious zealots to not only pull the lever for it all but become screaming advocates. Just repeat a bunch of screaming spitting nonsense that is erronious at best, got joe public hitting copy and send to every one they knowe, people dont even write their own opinions any more.

I like what that George Lucas said on an interview, the govt has been bought and sold. I really think both these people, Romney and Obama are ok in their own right. If Obama would have any help from the right on issues that they even funadementally agreed with he had enough stones he could tell some hard lefities they would have to eat some but the right who has basically put us in the jamb we are in anyway says our way or the hiway and if they aint helping matters they are certainly leaving the door wide open.

I gotta take sides with my minister when he leans on his little gay rights pulpit, blinded by one issue, telling me how to vote with the bible, ****, somehow I dont find it real logical that Jesus would have pulled the lever for a generation of militant types with their finger on the pulse of world wide conglomerates, spun us in to a trillion dollar mess at best, ******* away a strong world position in the meanwhile, military and financial schemes to no end, let them right in the door, helped, I would think realisitcally this would piss off most middle blue collar types but somehow they convince these principles are good for them and how its logical that a bunch of babbling liberals are at the root of it all.

Then they left the mess, now its somehow a great idea they goona come back in a storm and fix it all, the same gang that left the gate wide open and rode shotgun?

Persobally Obama looks like a star in comparioson if you are basing it on whether he gives a **** about the most of this country, I think he would tell a lot of people to pound sand if he got some reasonable help but since that isnt the case he has to retreat. He cant take a risk to do whats right in some cases.

 

[Richard D]

I believe most of them are 8 year olds working for a bowl of rice per day with a bayonet in their backs; thay don't have a choice what tools are provided.

 

[HandyManny]

I believe most of them are 8 year olds working for a bowl of rice per day with a bayonet in their backs; thay don't have a choice what tools are provided.

It's ignorant uninformed comments like this that put most Americans to shame.

 

[KPSquared]

I believe most of them are 8 year olds working for a bowl of rice per day with a bayonet in their backs; thay don't have a choice what tools are provided.

American ignorance at it's best. Circling the drain. . .

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

To be honest, the Chinese government arrested people for publicly voicing their opinion that the mushroom cloud seen a couple of days ago could have been due to a chemical explosion, instead of blindly accepting the government story that it was just a "coincidence" of burning hay and grass.

***** about the tools, wind up in a reformation camp...I'd bet most make due with a shoe as a hammer instead.

 

[magova1104]

A guy can afford one almost at will if he needs if for not much more than lunch money and is perfect for that kind of work. I for one think the advent of China tools had been a boon to the world including many aspects in this country, it has forced some competition in second line brands and its amazing to me at some level that I can buy a 9/16 end wrench that works as good as it does for a dollar retail. For the cost of a truck brand I can put 2 dozen wrenches in circulation that perform excellent, 30$, comparatively would cost me 700$, even if I got 50% would be near 400 to do the same function.

These types of tools are so cheap they are almost considered a consumable like a welding rod or grinding wheel, cost me 10$ a year to replace lost wrenches. I can toss 2 everywhere they are needed. Some of them I like particular on occasion. Even paying retail, 4$ for a 3/4 impact socket off the shelf, 9/16 I bought was under 3 in a single, lifetime off the shelf by a vendor I already use. I broke one once,,, a 3/4 we had ran thru 1000's of cycles building steel building and heavy equipment, they brought me a new one same day. I broke a 1 1/8 out of a good set, don't even remember who made it but just toss and replace with a couple Duro, all is well. 8$ and I got 2 new ones.

I probably can count on my fingers the common China hand tools I have broken over the years, not those 5$ 40 piece socket sets although I have a few extensions and sockets that survived but general tools and at the point we did break something it had well earned its keep and then some times over. Maybe a half a dozen end wrenches including 3 or 4 1.49 specials where I used as back up for hundreds of cycles with impact. Loosened thousands of bolts in clamps, some we did air ratchet, some we break with impacts.

Like someone here said: " Life is too short for cheap tools".

I think if I were in medieval times, had the best sword. I know I'm not going to be buried with my tools, but while I live, I will use the best, eat the best food and I'll enjoy this short life. I enjoy my job and I love working with tools, how could I enjoy my work with $1 tools?
I think the Chinese have and have had a different culture and are not materialistic, the trouble is that I was born on this continent.

 

[HandyManny]

To be honest, the Chinese government arrested people for publicly voicing their opinion that the mushroom cloud seen a couple of days ago could have been due to a chemical explosion, instead of blindly accepting the government story that it was just a "coincidence" of burning hay and grass.

***** about the tools, wind up in a reformation camp...I'd bet most make due with a shoe as a hammer instead.

How was nazi Germany any different under the third reich?? Yet everyone creams their shorts over German made tools.

 

[bimmerZ5]

I wonder if the GM and Chrisler plants in China design there vehicles with slanted headlights.

I know bad joke.

ha ha ha... i've got slanted eyes, but I'm not too stuck up that I can't take a joke.

but, I think the german's have slanted eye envy:

 

[Richard D]

How was nazi Germany any different under the third reich?? Yet everyone creams their shorts over German made tools.

Because they make good stuff.

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

How was nazi Germany any different under the third reich?? Yet everyone creams their shorts over German made tools.

Manufacturing standards. The Germans have always had a sort of detached and objective functionality complex when it comes to the things they make, unrelated to the political situation in the country at any time.

Personally I don't get the draw of Hazet and the like...just not my sort of tools.

 

[Richard D]

Used to have a Chinese guy sat at the desk across from me. Nice kid, smart. Had a problem with a desk lamp once and said, "Cheap Chinese *************!" Then caught myself and apollogized. He said,"No, your right, they do make cheap **** over there!"

 

[HandyManny]

How was nazi Germany any different under the third reich?? Yet everyone creams their shorts over German made tools.

Because they make good stuff.

Manufacturing standards. The Germans have always had a sort of detached and objective functionality complex when it comes to the things they make, unrelated to the political situation in the country at any time.

Personally I don't get the draw of Hazet and the like...just not my sort of tools.

I will agree for the most part, but not fully. I've bought some German made items that were worse than anything coming out of China. Some bar tending stuff comes to mind. On the other hand one thing I find ironic is that a single shot Mauser (home guard) bolt action rifle I have that was manufacured late war during WWII, in all most likely was made by concentration camp forced labor. Yet it's action is one of smoothest I've ever handled and the overall finish is impeccable. Not at all what late war production was like for the Germans

As far as German engineered automobiles go......I think they bastardize everything, way too complicated and over engineered for it's own good. I just prefere classic American cars to German. Sad thing is that many of germany's products are no longer made by them, but made in China. And most stuff that is made there anymore is made by middle eastern immigrants, not Germans.

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

I will agree for the most part, but not fully. I've bought some German made items that were worse than anything coming out of China. Some bar tending stuff comes to mind. On the other hand one thing I find ironic is that a single shot Mauser (home guard) bolt action rifle I have that was manufacured late war during WWII, in all most likely was made by concentration camp forced labor. Yet it's action is one of smoothest I've ever handled and the overall finish is impeccable. Not at all what late war production was like for the Germans

As far as German engineered automobiles go......I think they bastardize everything, way too complicated and over engineered for it's own good. I just prefere classic American cars to German. Sad thing is that many of germany's products are no longer made by them, but made in China. And most stuff that is made there anymore is made by middle eastern immigrants, not Germans.

I liked the one bit on Top Gear (the British one) where Jeremy Clarkson is under a car with a magnifying glass, studying all of the nuts and bolts and the like, and he says, "This is how Germans enjoy a good automobile". Then it switches to Clarkson in a car flying around a track, and he says, "And this is how British enjoy good cars." I'd prefer a '67 Firebird over just about any German or British car (but I'll make an exception for a Bugatti).

Humour aside, I think it's a pretty apt comparison of the two cultures. And after having the misfortune of working on a few VW cars, I definitely think they make things overcomplicated just to be different. They look at a design and say, "Well, that's how everyone else does it...so we'll do it in a completely different way, because we're German!"

I think the biggest thing is that any single country can make some really good stuff, and some really ****** stuff, even in the same industry. I think the problem with tools specifically is that most Americans on this board don't have any experience with the cheap, economy lines of tools in other countries - I doubt every person who needs a set of pliers in Germany buys NWS. Because we're only really exposed to the high-quality expensive stuff, we make an assumption that because all we see are good tools from Country X, that's all Country X makes, and since all we see is cheap junk from Country Y, that's all Country Y can make. That doesn't mean there aren't junk German-made tools and high-quality Chinese-made tools, it's just that the majority of people on this board don't know they exist.

 

[wildgoose]

This may be surprising to some of you, but the stuff China exports in general are of higher quality than the stuff average Chinese citizen buys in China. In any kind of manufacturing there are quality variations, and usually the good quality stuff gets exported since there’s more money to be made there. The average and stuff not quite up to QA standards are sold locally. I know someone who once worked in a bike factory, and he told me bikes that have minor imperfections are kept and sold locally. It also matches my first hand experience buying stuff in China, everything seems a little cheap compare to the stuff we get here. This is not to say there are no high end stores, but for the price they are charging there, I’d rather buy it here in Costco.

So yes, the crappy tools you see in HF are probably a lot better in quality than what the average Chinese sees when he walks into a tool store in China.

I do want to point out that tools is an interesting category. There are of course more and more wealthy people in China, but IMHO those people generally are not using tools. They might buy a fancy house, a fancy car, eat fancy food, but they don’t use tools. It’s just a fact of life. People who use tools in China, either professionally or home use, are generally not that well off. Making average salary, you don’t buy expensive tools, as there are far more “important” things to spend money on for the average person. China still does not have a strong middle class like we do here. Most people do not own cars. People who own cars do not work on their cars, and people who work on cars do not own cars. Remember, this is a country where you can run someone down in your BMW because he scratched your car, and get away with it. There’s a huge income disparity, the average person is still not that well off. Quality tool is kind of a luxury that is just not high on the priority list of the average Chinese.

In the US it’s a little different. Cars have been here long enough that there are a lot of people who own cars and work on their cars. It’s not that expensive (compare to our salary) to own a car here, and certainly not that expensive to buy some semi-decent tools if you enjoy working on cars. (I associate owning tools with working on cars, because frankly, if I am not working on my car, what do I need all those tools for?

Think about it this way. Owning a car in China is like owning a boat here. It is not for your average Joe. People who own boats do not work on their boats (maybe they do, I don’t know, but it seems logical to assume if you are rich enough to own a boat, you are not going to work on it yourself. Larry Ellison certainly don't work on his boat). If fancy tools are mostly relevant for working on boats, then the rich won’t buy it since they don’t have the need, and the not rich won’t buy it since they have no boats to work on.

So to answer the OP’s question, the average Chinese who wants a tool will probably pick the cheapest one he thinks that will get the job done, and most likely a domestically made tool since the import tools will likely be out of reach. The price of the SO tool will probably seem more like a ransom than anything.

 

[Richard D]

Pretty good analogy.

 

[bcradio]

(I associate owning tools with working on cars, because frankly, if I am not working on my car, what do I need all those tools for?

Working on your home... at least that's mostly what I use my tools for since my cars are fairly reliable (fingers crossed something doesn't break now).

 

[HandyManny]

I liked the one bit on Top Gear (the British one) where Jeremy Clarkson is under a car with a magnifying glass, studying all of the nuts and bolts and the like, and he says, "This is how Germans enjoy a good automobile". Then it switches to Clarkson in a car flying around a track, and he says, "And this is how British enjoy good cars." I'd prefer a '67 Firebird over just about any German or British car (but I'll make an exception for a Bugatti).

Humour aside, I think it's a pretty apt comparison of the two cultures. And after having the misfortune of working on a few VW cars, I definitely think they make things overcomplicated just to be different. They look at a design and say, "Well, that's how everyone else does it...so we'll do it in a completely different way, because we're German!"

I think the biggest thing is that any single country can make some really good stuff, and some really ****** stuff, even in the same industry. I think the problem with tools specifically is that most Americans on this board don't have any experience with the cheap, economy lines of tools in other countries - I doubt every person who needs a set of pliers in Germany buys NWS. Because we're only really exposed to the high-quality expensive stuff, we make an assumption that because all we see are good tools from Country X, that's all Country X makes, and since all we see is cheap junk from Country Y, that's all Country Y can make. That doesn't mean there aren't junk German-made tools and high-quality Chinese-made tools, it's just that the majority of people on this board don't know they exist.

Yeah I agree. To me I think a lot of members here on GJ are terribly misinformed about many things, either that or just too young to know. Not bashing people, just commenting on some ignorant comments I've heard here over the last few years. Nobody knows it all, as i sure don't either. To me it is funny to hear there are people here who seem to think that every single vintage USA made tool was all the best top notch stuff in the world back then. I can tell you for sure, at least in my day that was far from true, we had all levels of grades and quality. True that it was very easy to find good quality hand tools back then and most were made here.

I find it funny how some here bash applorable Chinese labor, yet fail to take into account the labor conditions in most US foundaries and factories in the days prior to the 1970's. They think a Vise produced by Reed or Parker in 1915 was made by some middle class caucasion American who made a decent wage while working under great conditions. True he may have been highly skilled and took pride in his work, but I'm sure he didn't make much and he had few benefits while working under some pretty poor conditions. Can't say for certain. I don't know what factory conditions were like here in 1915 or even 1941, but I can tell you this - I doubt they were anywhere near the same standard that todays workers are used to. I'm sure the machinist or forge operator at the old Diamond Calk Horseshoe Co back in the old days worked under similar conditions. What about the average German making tools in a a factory in the inter-war years, conditions were much worse I bet.

 

[otis66]

Without turning this into a brand war or political.

With all the tool brand wars on this board and how most of us take pride in American made tools and have various opinions of other COO tools as to quality and value. Anyone know what is available as to tools in China? What do they consider the "best". Do they have choices of cheap to expensive tools and junk to quality tools like we do here? Just curious on how the Chinese think about tools. Not saying all Chinese tools are junk, but most would argue that American made tools are "better" than a Chinese, like the craftsman thread. Do chinese have pride and say "Chinese made tools are better because they are made in China" like we do about American made tools?

I know this thread will probably turn into another arguement and that is not my intent. I was just curious on what goes through a Chinese man's head when they go to buy a tool. What their thoughts are on quality, price, value, COO, etc?

The Chinese love our brands....They make them every day...

 

[otis66]

Look at those ancient Chinese "Kung Fu" Swords if you dont believe China can do quality metal work

I beleive Japan makes the best Sword. Samurai Swords.

 

[andywander]

I enjoy using my $1 wrenches very much, because it lets me spend what I DIDN'T spend on them, on something else.

 

[richfinn]

I beleive Japan makes the best Sword. Samurai Swords.

They taught the Japanese everything there is to know about cool swords

 

[RKA]

People who own cars do not work on their cars, and people who work on cars do not own cars.

I think this sums up the fundamental difference between the culture we know and theirs. This is what I was trying to get at earlier, but this phrase explains it so much better!