Oldest metric wrenches you have or you have seen?

[barcalo]

What are the oldest metric wrenches you have or you have seen? I can not find them and I am bad with taking pictures but I have an old set of Indestro metrics. I also have a really old partial set that is made in the USA that has no name and I am assuming they are Western Auto or something of that sort that was made in the late 40's possibly 50's. They have metric sizes on one side and sae on the other. I only have three of them and wish I had the full set. Both sets are very short and very thin.

I have thousands and thousands of wrenches and almost never come across older metrics.

Anybody have any clues to cool old metrics I could collect?

 

[snapmom]

Blue Point was making them in 1938.

 

[Fedwrench]

Blue Point was making them in 1938.

Wow, I would have bet post WWII when GIs brought MGs back from overseas.

What does a blue point wrench from 1938 look like? Are we talking open or boxed ends but, no combinations?

 

[odelay01]

I have an old Bridgeport (USA) DOE wrench that has 1/2 and 9/16 on one side, and 12 and 14mm on the other side. It looks to be from the 40s or 50s although I do not know for sure.

 

[fortson]

i'm out every weekend at garage sales and flea markets, i never see metric wrenches or sockets more than ten years old. usually only 3 or 4 years old. i've been looking for some vintage metric stuff myself for a long time.

 

[snapmom]

Here are some early BP.
Top 1949, middle 1948, bottom no date code, but has a war finish, would date early 40s. The first Snap on metric wrench would probably date about 1950 or so.

 

[bobbar]

I like that oex10m

 

[1967lemans]

I got an old Hazet. Not sure what year its from. I'm guessing the 60s or 70s

 

[Fedwrench]

Thanks Snapmom for sharing the pictures

 

[skipskip]

Wow, I would have bet post WWII when GIs brought MGs back from overseas.

Um.. MG's would have been British Standard or Whitworth

 

[BJ42LX]

I bought this Indestro set of CL last year. I'm guessing '70's based on the font and design of the label.

 

[SCscoutguy]

I have this Snap On 16mm wrench from 1964.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80416

 

[RobertMo1988]

I have these older metric mac wrenches i inherited from my great grandfather, not the oldest but not sure how old they are. but 6mm-19mm

 

[Outlawmws]

Craftsman was making them in the V series at least, and the trucks have had them forever just about. (I bought a tray of MAC 3/8 6 pt metric sockets probably 35 years ago and they were not unusual even then.)

My dad had a metric hex drive set to work on an old Simca we had (actually had 2 of them one time or another), and of course VW's were being imported from the late 40's IIR.

Wartime tools were made in metric to be able to work on captured equipment as well.

 

[HandyManny]

I have thousands and thousands of wrenches and almost never come across older metrics.

Anybody have any clues to cool old metrics I could collect?

That's beause back in the day (at least here in USA) most nuts and bolts and other fasteners were inches. Metric wasn't as common and didn't begin to become common until the 1960's with the advent of Japanese and European cars hitting the market here.

 

[barney rubble]

I have got a small Snap On combo wrench at home that is 1957 if I remember correctly.

 

[4x4gearhead]

The oldest ones I have are Williams/vulcan set of short 6mm to 19mm, I would date them to late 60's 70's? Im not sure how long vulcan tools were around or how long they were made by williams. I also have a set of long pattern Williams vulcan from 20mm to 25mm.

 

[joeswamp]

That's beause back in the day (at least here in USA) most nuts and bolts and other fasteners were inches. Metric wasn't as common and didn't begin to become common until the 1960's with the advent of Japanese and European cars hitting the market here.

I'd be curious as to what the earliest heavily imported metric product was. My guess is the VW bug, but were high end European vehicles (e.g. Mercedes or Citroen) imported here earlier?

The other thing I wonder about is Japanese vehicles. Japanese stuff is all metric nowadays, but their early post war stuff were often British designs, either made under license or just ripped off. Kawasaki motorcycles in the early 60s, for example, were very detailed copies of BSAs. Were these things Whitworth or metric?

 

[Murphy4570]

I'd be curious as to what the earliest heavily imported metric product was. My guess is the VW bug, but were high end European vehicles (e.g. Mercedes or Citroen) imported here earlier?

The other thing I wonder about is Japanese vehicles. Japanese stuff is all metric nowadays, but their early post war stuff were often British designs, either made under license or just ripped off. Kawasaki motorcycles in the early 60s, for example, were very detailed copies of BSAs. Were these things Whitworth or metric?

Early British = Whitworth.

 

[bobcatdan]

I have these older metric mac wrenches i inherited from my great grandfather, not the oldest but not sure how old they are. but 6mm-19mm

I don't know exact dates, but any mac tool marked Sabina, Ohio is really old.

 

[Gort the giant robot]

I also have several Bridgeport double marked wrenches. I also have a Craftsman 15MM combo wrench that is marked JAPAN.
I believe Plomb made some metric tools also.


Gort.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Wow, I would have bet post WWII when GIs brought MGs back from overseas.

That probably would have been Whitworth/British Standard, and not Metric.

Charles

 

[Monte]

Hazet from the 1930´s
21x23mm + 10x11mm

 

[jwitt]

This is the oldest metric stuff that I have. I would guess 50's.

Jim

 

[Stuart in MN]

I'd be curious as to what the earliest heavily imported metric product was. My guess is the VW bug, but were high end European vehicles (e.g. Mercedes or Citroen) imported here earlier?

The other thing I wonder about is Japanese vehicles. Japanese stuff is all metric nowadays, but their early post war stuff were often British designs, either made under license or just ripped off. Kawasaki motorcycles in the early 60s, for example, were very detailed copies of BSAs. Were these things Whitworth or metric?

VW started importing cars to the US in 1949 but they didn't really take off until the later 1950s. Other foreign cars (Mercedes, Renault, Fiat and others) were imported pretty much from the beginning in small numbers (in fact, if you go back far enough Rolls-Royce actually had a factory in Springfield, Massachusetts in the 1920s.) Japanese cars started to arrive in the late 1950s.

There were a few individuals who were the US agents for multiple foreign brands, Max Hoffman was one of them. Foreign cars were pretty rare outside of large metropolitan areas like New York or L.A.

I have one of those 1960s Kawasaki motorcycles, the W2 650. While it looks like a BSA the mechanical bits are entirely different and it's all metric.

 

[joeswamp]

VW started importing cars to the US in 1949 but they didn't really take off until the later 1950s. Other foreign cars (Mercedes, Renault, Fiat and others) were imported pretty much from the beginning in small numbers (in fact, if you go back far enough Rolls-Royce actually had a factory in Springfield, Massachusetts in the 1920s.) Japanese cars started to arrive in the late 1950s.

There were a few individuals who were the US agents for multiple foreign brands, Max Hoffman was one of them. Foreign cars were pretty rare outside of large metropolitan areas like New York or L.A.

Interesting that Rolls had a plant here, I'm going to have to look that up. I know that the baby Austin 7 was also manufactured here for a couple years in the early 30s -- there's a Laurel and Hardy short in which Oliver Hardy uses one to elope with his equally rotund bride, it takes them ten minutes to cram themselves into such a small car.

I asked my father about foreign cars in a phone call tonight (he's in his 80s) and he pretty much said what you did. Growing up in Chicago, he said he couldn't recall ever seeing a foreign car before the war. He did say that he remembered a big flood of English and French cars just after the war, but the German cars didn't really show up until the mid 50s. If his memory is right, the French cars would have been the first to require metric wrenches.

I suspect that prior to the war there was probably no cheap way to ship cars overseas. The few that came over here were probably souvenirs from trips by the ultrarich.

I have one of those 1960s Kawasaki motorcycles, the W2 650. While it looks like a BSA the mechanical bits are entirely different and it's all metric.

That's interesting (and that's a cool bike), although that machine is a few generations away from the original model. Do you know if the Meguro K was metric or Whitworth? I can never remember if that bike was made under license or not, people often refer to one but I vaguely recall Bert Hopwood saying in his book that a license never existed.

 

[Stuart in MN]

That's interesting (and that's a cool bike), although that machine is a few generations away from the original model. Do you know if the Meguro K was metric or Whitworth? I can never remember if that bike was made under license or not, people often refer to one but I vaguely recall Bert Hopwood saying in his book that a license never existed.

For others reading this, Meguro was a Japanese motorcycle manufacturer that was bought out by Kawasaki in about 1965 or so. One of their models was a four stroke, vertical twin that looked very much like a BSA A7/A10 of the late 1950s. The Meguro version was 500cc, Kawasaki made a bunch of upgrades to the design and increased the displacement to 650cc. They were sold in the US from 1966-1969 in limited quantities, but remained in production until 1974 - in the later years they were often used as police bikes in Japan. At any rate, the Meguro was metric as well - even though Kawasaki updated the design a lot of the parts crossed over to the newer bikes.

I bought my 1968 W2SS back in 1976, it was my first motorcycle. It's undergoing a decades-long restoration... One of these years I'll get around to finishing it. It's identical to this one:

 

[joeswamp]

Thanks for that clarification. I remember once reading a big general motorcycle repair book from the early 60s. The Kawasaki (or maybe Megura) section was only a couple pages long, and basically said "see the BSA A7 section, with the following changes" and then listed them.

There was another Japanese motorcycle manufacturer (called Lilac I believe) that made a fake BMW, sort of like Ural.

I believe that the first imported Datsun (and possibly Toyota) engines were licensed copies of British designs. Much higher quality though, as they were using Deming's quality control methods.

It's interesting to wonder why Japan went metric at all, given that they had a lot of support from the US and UK in the late 19th and early 20th century. I suspect they must have bought a lot of their early military equipment from Germany.

 

[Dave.R]

I have these older metric mac wrenches i inherited from my great grandfather, not the oldest but not sure how old they are. but 6mm-19mm

Barefoot in a garage, your brave!

 

[2oolhound]

It's interesting to wonder why Japan went metric at all, given that they had a lot of support from the US and UK in the late 19th and early 20th century. I suspect they must have bought a lot of their early military equipment from Germany.

Let's not forget that metric is the most logic numerical system with it's base - 10.

Canada converted to the metric system beginning in 1970. Unfortunately in my case my brain was already imperialized and I have never fully converted to metric.

 

[2oolhound]

I have these older metric mac wrenches i inherited from my great grandfather, not the oldest but not sure how old they are. but 6mm-19mm

Can someone get Robert a longer 10mm for his set? It's bugging me!

What is the outside length (in mm's of coarse) of your 9 and 11mm compared to the 10mm?

 

[4x4gearhead]

Here's a pic of my williams/vulcans.

 

[Souljer]

Thanks for that clarification. I remember once reading a big general motorcycle repair book from the early 60s. The Kawasaki (or maybe Megura) section was only a couple pages long, and basically said "see the BSA A7 section, with the following changes" and then listed them.

There was another Japanese motorcycle manufacturer (called Lilac I believe) that made a fake BMW, sort of like Ural.

I believe that the first imported Datsun (and possibly Toyota) engines were licensed copies of British designs. Much higher quality though, as they were using Deming's quality control methods.

It's interesting to wonder why Japan went metric at all, given that they had a lot of support from the US and UK in the late 19th and early 20th century. I suspect they must have bought a lot of their early military equipment from Germany.

Hi,

The Japanese went metric for the same reason they were able to re-engineer their licensed British designed engines to a much higher quality standard; they are smart, rational people and recognize a good idea when they see it.

Metric is so vastly superior to fractions in manufacturing and daily life that it's ridiculous. I'm ashamed of my lack of metric understanding and use in daily life. However whenever I'm making something, I always use metric. It's simply so much easier to see and understand the relationships between the different measurements.

 

[Flatintoone]

I have seen Datsun advertisements from 1963 or thereabouts proclaiming their use of SAE fasteners, which is an interesting footnote.

Souljer,
Without judging either system, I don't know how manufacturing terminology, etc would be done in the metric system-though I suppose it is everywhere else in the world, so it can't be that much of a mystery. (And, as a boss pointed out, going back and forth really isn't a big deal so long as you remember '25.4').
As far as daily life, the halves-quarters-eighths-etc system might be easier than a base-10 system. Not easier to add/subtract/multiply/divide, but easier to visualize.
That said, I've spent my entire life using inches/feet/miles...

 

[shoturtle]

My father in law who is not a tool guy, has some pre WWI open end wrenches. That he got form his father.

 

[Souljer]

Hi,

First off I totally agree with you in that I too have spent my entire life using inches/ feet/ miles. So that is also what I'm familiar with and it's easier for me in certain applications.

I'm just going by my own experience when I make something. If I want the part to end between 19-18 mm (approx. 3/4 - 23/32), it's easy to see where I'm at when I use calipers and get a reading of 18.6. Compare this to fractions like 47/64 or 23/32 -where the hell are those? Of course decimal would work here, probably just fine.

In the long run though, decimal is based on inches and when we get into yards and miles I think it would end up being equally clumsy.
• One mile = 63,360 inches; difficult to divide or even double.
• One kilometer = 100,000 centimeters; very easy to manipulate and make calculations from.

Metric is superior.

The concepts of 'half' etc. are useful and easy to visualize, I agree. It's when things get too small and/ or if you want to know the relationships between two or more measurements that it becomes unclear unless you are used to it. If something is 3/4 and that's all you need to know, then you're done. No problem.

However if you need to know the next size smaller, like a smaller drill bit, then you need to know it's 47/64 or translate it to decimal to go from .75 to .7344. If you're working in metric you would go from 19mm to 18mm, which is a sensible and easy assumption. No need to go to another system or calculate anything.

Thanks for your post.

 

[RobertMo1988]

Can someone get Robert a longer 10mm for his set? It's bugging me!

What is the outside length (in mm's of coarse) of your 9 and 11mm compared to the 10mm?

i never really paid any attention to it, but the 9mm and 10mm are the same length. the 11mm is 5/8'' longer than the 9&10

 

[KEH]

I have recently put together a complete set of Craftsman double line v code Craftsman v code sockets, production of which was changed about 1965. In the process I found a set of 3/8 metric sockets with that code. I bought new 1/2 drive metric sockets shortly after that time period and they and the 3/8 set I recently got had the metric designation written on them. Shortly after that, early 70s, Craftsman changed the metric designation to fine long vertcal lines engraved at the top of the sockets. This changed soon to the fine short vertical lines at the bottom of the socket and they kept that during the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s with a brief time out for those sorry laser engraved ones 3-4 years ago, which they have dropped and gone back to the earlier style. I first noticed Snap On metric sockets having the lines engraved for metrics before Craftsman started it, and SO has since gone throu a couple of styles. As far as i recall, Craftsman metric wrenches have always just had the metric size engraved , or stamped, one the combination wrenches, i.e., "19mm".

BTW, I have a 10mm Mac like the one pictured in the old combination set above. Glad to have some idea of its age.

Re import cars, in the 1950s France was exporting Renault Dauphines to the US. It was a 4 door, rear engine car with a water cooled 4 cyl engine and for a while was giving Volkswagon a run for it's money. I assume they were metric cars, but never dealt with one.

KEH

 

[2oolhound]

i never really paid any attention to it, but the 9mm and 10mm are the same length. the 11mm is 5/8'' longer than the 9&10

What the hell is going on here. The box end of the 9 and 10 line up to the left in the photo but the open ends show the 9 to be 1/2" longer. It does not look like these 2 wrenches are equal in length like you're saying.

 

[RobertMo1988]

the wrench wrack grows out like a v(im sure you know) so i think thats whats throwing you off. but i pulled them out and put them next to each other, still a big difference between the 9/10 and 11. maybe tomorrow ill post pictures of them next to each other