Got a williams S-52 finally.... BUT

[TwoInch]

i can not get this bad boy apart....

i have soaked it, punch, chisel, soak, repeat, soak repeat. also modified a 4.5" grinder spanner to fit, same as i did for the B52(which worked) and put some serious *** into it, and twisted/mangled the spanner....

i have it soaking again. the ratchet is in near perfect condition. i would like to get it apart and greased, as its bone dry and clackity same as the B52 i found. the superlube made it 1000% smoother.

im afraid im gunna ****** up the contact points till they are useless, so i have given up for the time being. any ideas? the tool mentioned last time i dont think will handle as much torque as the spanner i twisted up with the ball-peen

 

[reptilezs]

head to the local bike shop and ask the mechanic there if you can use their park yellow spanner. http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_535517_-1___202573 im a bike mechanic and that is what i used on my 1/2 ratchet. not sure if the slot sizes are the same in 1/2 and 3/8

 

[u118224]

TwoInch, could you measure the slotted screw that holds the selector switch, including thread pitch? I need to replace mine.

BTW, congrats on the acquisition. I used mine last night.

 

[Rickster]

What are you soaking it in?? I use automatic trans fluid .... works well to unstick stuck stuff.

 

[TwoInch]

TwoInch, could you measure the slotted screw that holds the selector switch, including thread pitch? I need to replace mine.

BTW, congrats on the acquisition. I used mine last night.

mine is not the newer version with the screw, it has a circle nut around the outside diameter of the selector with four slots for a spanner. like this

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36498

 

[TwoInch]

update - well, i have now soaked it twice for extended periods in atf/acetone, and to no avail. i have twisted up two modified spanners. the ratchet it in such nice shape, i can not believe i cant get it apart. im totally stumped

 

[beelsr]

once upon a time, i made a special wrench for this out of a socket. if you're having this much trouble, the "teeth" would probably shear off on a home-made tool before it opened for you. so save that for the future...

maybe the last guy in there loctited it? but the acetone would have hit that if it could reach...

maybe time to consider some heat. a mini-ductor would be controlled heat without flame.

maybe you could make a HD spanner out of large flat-tip screwdriver bits and get super-serious *** behind it?

or just soak it for another week. you've lived years without one, what's another week?

 

[TwoInch]

using a socket and getting all four contacts hooked up might be worth a shot...

i was thinking heat already, just pondering on what would be the method of choice without really cooking the finish.

i was also thinking it might be red locktited, thats quite a bit of surface area for it to grab, and i am at a disadvantage with the little grooves being of no leverage advantage as they are inboard of the threads.

also thinking of ways to force the grease in pneumatically or with some sort of pressure and saying **** that nut.... hmmmmmmm...

 

[TwoInch]

im going to try cutting a cr-v impact socket to fit all four slots, and if that doesnt work. im gonna pack the grease in manually like a bearing. and if that dont do it, im selling it on ebay and saying better luck next time....

 

[John316]

You could space 2 screwdriver bit tips (not the real short ones) or similar pointing up in a vice so that they meet two of the ring slots. cranked very tight.

 

[Rickster]

I have a couple of extras available....

 

[Outlawmws]

Before getting anything really flammable inside, try getting it in a oven at about 400 F or so. At least with an oven you have some control over the temps...

 

[Gort the giant robot]

I picked up a S51 Williams 1/2 drive ratchet last weekend at the flea market. Very nice condition, but it is missing the drive plug. I have atleast one S52 in my collection.

Gort.

 

[TwoInch]

You could space 2 screwdriver bit tips (not the real short ones) or similar pointing up in a vice so that they meet two of the ring slots. cranked very tight.

good thinking. thats an idea too. although they are soft, maybe impact grade or something. the spanner im using was pretty tough steel, and it mangled and eventually partially sheared one pin.

 

[TwoInch]

I have a couple of extras available....

what are you looking to get for one? and have you gotten any of them apart?

the one i have is most similar to the top one in your pic, and has a B stamp next to the PATD stamp. it is also in like new condition, the best i have seen, with only very small imperfections in the knurling in a couple spots. the ratchet is gorgeous... again i can not believe it is giving me this much grief..

 

[sselander]

I have one as well. Liberally soaking and patience will get it apart.

member J.A.F.E has a great thread on the internals:
Willaims Superratchet Disassembled
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36498

I modified an HF pin wrench to get mine apart
http://www.harborfreight.com/adjustable-pin-wrench-36554.html

 

[Mike007]

A friend of mine recently acquired 12 like new S-52's for free. He gave me one and gave the rest away. I know this doesn't help you, but it's a sweet tool.

 

[TwoInch]

member J.A.F.E has a great thread on the internals:
Willaims Superratchet Disassembled
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36498

I modified an HF pin wrench to get mine apart
http://www.harborfreight.com/adjustable-pin-wrench-36554.html

see post #5 in this thread.....

and the grinder wrench is what i have been trying, and ruined two of them already. mangled, bent the arms, and sheared the pin off. when i say its stuck, i mean its really stuck

i did get my B-52 apart with a modified 4" grinder wrench tho, worked like a charm.

 

[neonnblack]

it is also in like new condition, the best i have seen, with only very small imperfections in the knurling in a couple spots. the ratchet is gorgeous... again i can not believe it is giving me this much grief..

There is a reason it looks new, someone else couldnt get it apart and tossed it in a drawer.

 

[TwoInch]

There is a reason it looks new, someone else couldnt get it apart and tossed it in a drawer.

if someone tried getting this one apart, they didnt try very hard. the slots were in perfect conditions before i got to it. there was zero sign of any tool trying to remove that nut.

that might be the problem. it hasnt been moved since it was put together, probably dry.

 

[TwoInch]

you guys that use the ATF/acetone concoction, i remember reading that the mixture stays in suspension, but the stuff i made up separates within about 45 seconds of mixing it up. i try to keep mixing it every little while, but man, what the hell....

 

[chopper1]

I believe the problem is ATF, use power steering fluid and acetone. I don't think they will separate.

 

[Gort the giant robot]

Keep in mind there is several types of ATF fluid. I have read use are to use Dextron type II or III. Have you tried kroil or Marvel Mystery oil ?

Gort.

 

[transittech]

Keep in mind there is several types of ATF fluid. I have read use are to use Dextron type II or III. Have you tried kroil or Marvel Mystery oil ?

Gort.

x2. Kroil or Marvel air tool oil are both excellent penetrants.

 

[TwoInch]

i am using dexron II-III type atf.

i have also hear that PSF is the original, but have actually heard many more people using ATF.

i tried MMO for 24 hours, before the ATF/acetone mix. supposedly, the ATF mix is better than kroil or any other penetrant out there...

 

[lwlobo]

If you modify an impact socket to engage the slots, try using the a hand impact to turn the socket. The shock, rotation and downward force of the hammer blow can unstick some really stuck stuff.

I'd heat it in an oven to about 400 degrees like outlaw said, apply kroil or your ATF/Acetone mix and let it cool. Heat it again, apply penetrant, then put your modified socket and impact on and smack it really hard with your BFH. If it moves even a tiny bit, keep whaling on the impact until it spins free. If that doesn't get it off, repeat the process once or twice more. If all this fails, give up and move on with your life.

 

[Gort the giant robot]

The ATF / Acetone formula is called Eds Red. The formula was invented for firearms use. You can find out more about it by going to a search engine and typing in Eds Red.

Gort.

 

[TwoInch]

update.

well i finally gave up on this one. soaked and soaked and soaked. nothing worked. pretty unreal actually.

anyway, i noticed that when i drained it the last few times, no black gunk was coming out any longer. so i sat for about a a half hour with a palm full of superlube, and packed it like a bearing. not easy going, but packed it a bit, tossed a socket on it and gave it a couple good raps on a block of wood to move some grease down into the mech, and it worked. took a few minutes to get the ratchet cleaned up, but it is smooth as butter now. no screeching and clacking of the mechanism. works as good as it looks now. hopefully it stays that way

 

[Gort the giant robot]

I can't remember the name of it, but i use to have cans of spray grease. It would come out as a red liquid and after a few minutes it would turn to a solid. It would be perfect for greasing hard to open ratchets.

Gort.

 

[magova1104]

Maybe that piece is assembled with loctite? . The only way is to use heat to loosen it, any liquids or solvents can't dissolve the loctite. You can use a small torch.

 

[spongerich]

The next time you use it, the retaining ring is going to pop off and fall down inside of whatever you're working on.

 

[TwoInch]

Maybe that piece is assembled with loctite? . The only way is to use heat to loosen it, any liquids or solvents can't dissolve the loctite. You can use a small torch.

i didnt want to ruin the finish on the ratchet. it is in great condition. works now, and i was just being stubborn, and didnt want to admit defeat.

ill post a pic of it here in a bit. i should have already

 

[ajchien]

I had difficulty opening my B-52. I wound up putting a pair of needle nose pliers clamped into a vise. The pliers were opened so that the tips fit into the locknut slots. Put the ratchet into the slots and worked it back and forth quite a bit. I heard a "crack" during one tightening attempt, and then it proceeded to loosen up just fine after that.

 

[TwoInch]

I had difficulty opening my B-52. I wound up putting a pair of needle nose pliers clamped into a vise. The pliers were opened so that the tips fit into the locknut slots. Put the ratchet into the slots and worked it back and forth quite a bit. I heard a "crack" during one tightening attempt, and then it proceeded to loosen up just fine after that.

i mounted different things in my vise, and attempted that same method, and only mangled the slots in the ratchet nut. until everything started camming out. thats when i threw in the towel.

 

[Provincial]

i mounted different things in my vise, and attempted that same method, and only mangled the slots in the ratchet nut. until everything started camming out. thats when i threw in the towel.

When dealing with situations like this applying pressure to hold the tool in the slots is a must. Anything from a c-clamp to a hydraulic press has been used for this. It keeps the tool from camming out. In the old days of replacing field coils in starters and generators they actually had tools to keep the square drive tool engaged with the square recess in the screw.

 

[Hiball]

Obviously Not the Correct tool for the Job, But did you try using a small pin punch to Persuade it?

 

[TwoInch]

When dealing with situations like this applying pressure to hold the tool in the slots is a must. Anything from a c-clamp to a hydraulic press has been used for this. It keeps the tool from camming out. In the old days of replacing field coils in starters and generators they actually had tools to keep the square drive tool engaged with the square recess in the screw.

i used an 8 or 10" c-clamp, and also rigged the vise in different ways to keep the tooling in the slots, but the damage was done. the c-clamp method is how i ruined the two pin spanners, which worked well, and applied a ton of torque. twisted the legs of the spanner and eventually sheared the pin off one side.€

i didnt give up with out one hell of a fight.