NWS Pump Pliers

[Hlidskjalf]

I little under a year ago I decided to check out the NWS pliers. I bought a couple different pump plier sizes and some side cutters and needle nose.

Overall their performance has been great. I heavily use the pump pliers daily. While I use them all the time I have never mistreated or abused them. I noticed lately that I have been slipping on iron pipe. I took the teeth to the wire wheel to clean out all the gunk only to find that the teeth were almost all flat.

I took some pictures to show the damages. It doesn't look like there have been any chips, but instead just collapsing of the teeth. Hopefully everyone can tell from the pictures.

Do you guys feel that this is normal? Please discuss...

 

[r_olson_06]

WOW i use pump pliers daily also had my Klein set for 6 years now and still sharp teeth. Wanted to buy a NWS or Knipex pair with the easier adjustment, but I think I will hold on to my Klein's for now.

 

[Hlidskjalf]

Haha ok so good, it just doesn't look bad to me then. They have served me well but at that price point and considering I take care of all my tools I am a bit disappointed.

I actually have a pair of knipex that I put away after I bought the NWS. I basically wanted to compare them. I need to go check the teeth on my knipex.

 

[littletoes]

I also use pump pliers on a DAILY basis!!!!

I'm a UA Steamfitter/Pipefitter/Plumber, and when I say daily, I mean it.

Don't think I've ever had a pair of the RIGID brand ever go flat THAT fast....

Those NWS designs look great, but its great to see pics from someone who uses them as hard as I wood.

Sure glad I haven't paid out the money for a pair, and I've sure been interested in a couple of designs...but at $50.00 a pop, and only lasting like that....no thanks!

 

[mbret2004]

same pair of Channelock's for over ten years and they're still serviceable.

Made in USA too!

 

[r_olson_06]

post some pics of the knipex pliers for comparison they might be better.

 

[Hlidskjalf]

Once I have a chance to get to my other tool box I'll pull out the Knipex. They were in service for roughly the same amount of time so I'm hoping they are still good to go.

I love the way the NWS and Knipex adjust and feel. I really wouldn't want to go back to channellock.

 

[RedFordTruck]

 

[Monte]

i bet the Knipex still look good

 

[garfunkle24]

How is your post vaguely relevant?

OP: My NWS pump pliers are newer than my Knipex Cobras and already have more tooth wear also.

 

[MrMark]

That looks more like damage from a single event than wear per se. There is no wear pattern on the unaffected teeth. I'd say that is a warantee event.

 

[archirelic]

That looks more like damage from a single event than wear per se. There is no wear pattern on the unaffected teeth. I'd say that is a warantee event.

That's what I was going to say. Doesn't look like wear over a period of time, but rather from a very specific event.

 

[Hlidskjalf]

You guys are probably right. It's hard for me to tell exactly when things went wrong because they spend most their time in use. I service and clean them maybe monthly if I have the opportunity to.

The major damage looks definitely like a single event, but if you look at all the other teeth there is definitely a good amount of wear.

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

[shoturtle]

The Germany design pump plier puts down way more clamping force then the us design tongue and groove pump pliers. So with the same hardness the added force you can exhort will wear the teeth. So wear on the nws and knipex will happen sooner, especially if you really use the ability to really bite down. With the channel design, the piper or what ever you are holding down will slip before the teeth gives in as they do not hold as tight.

Like is like harder brake pad bite better for stopping but they also wear down rotors faster. It is a give and take.

 

[Maexle]

How about that for a change.... not even used hard....(perhaps 20 times if so.....) and i was naive enough to buy an entire set of Irwin.....well, lesson learned....NWS and Knipex for the Future....

Not sue if i coincidentally purchased the one and only produced pliers with soft aluminum teeth.....

I am kind of reluctant to use the other ones

The positive side is, i won't damage the bolt heads / nuts because the pliers give in before the fasteners do....

 

[91bronc300]

Would be interesting to know the Rockwell hardness of the teeth of various brands and models of pliers I think.

 

[Maexle]

Would be interesting to know the Rockwell hardness of the teeth of various brands and models of pliers I think.

yepp, the irwin ones equal to butter at around 100F

 

[helterskelter]

Would be interesting to know the Rockwell hardness of the teeth of various brands and models of pliers I think.

I've got some Knipex I can test at work tomorrow. Don't have any NWS. May have some channel locks or craftsmans in the home box I could also check.

 

[helterskelter]

I've got some Knipex I can test at work tomorrow. Don't have any NWS. May have some channel locks or craftsmans in the home box I could also check.

Actually I take that back. It can be difficult to take a rockwell hardness on an oddly shaped part without a jig. I'll give it a shot and see if it works without binding. Microhardness would be the way to go, but is a destructive test, and I don't have surplus pliers to cut up for 'science' .

*edit* I forgot I also have a hand-held tester that will probably work better. Will report back .

 

[Maexle]

Actually I take that back. It can be difficult to take a rockwell hardness on an oddly shaped part without a jig. I'll give it a shot and see if it works without binding. Microhardness would be the way to go, but is a destructive test, and I don't have surplus pliers to cut up for 'science' .

*edit* I forgot I also have a hand-held tester that will probably work better. Will report back .

i could send you my Irwin, but i am afraid if i don't wrap it well enough in bubble wrap they will get scratched up...

 

[91bronc300]

Actually I take that back. It can be difficult to take a rockwell hardness on an oddly shaped part without a jig. I'll give it a shot and see if it works without binding. Microhardness would be the way to go, but is a destructive test, and I don't have surplus pliers to cut up for 'science' .

*edit* I forgot I also have a hand-held tester that will probably work better. Will report back .

Cool. I'll be interested to know how it comes out. My pops used to have a Rockwell tester but sold it. I wonder how much of the jaw is actually induction hardened. I wonder if you set the pliers flat and took a reading off the side of the jaw very near the teeth if that would give you the same reading as the actual tooth face would.

 

[helterskelter]

It's not possible to make an indention on the teeth, but I did go ahead and test a pair of knipex pliers and a set of china vise grips (that tore up the first time I put them to hard use). Both indentions were taken as close to the teeth as possible. No NWS pliers handy.

Knipex - ~58HRC (f***ing hard)
China Vise Grips - ~45HRC (silly putty)

 

[Hlidskjalf]

Very interesting, thanks for that! Any chances of testing some Channellock brand pliers?

 

[tomciob]

Thank you for the hard facts helterskelter.

 

[91bronc300]

Cool. Thanks Helter. I kind of doubt anything used in normal plumbing would be able to fold over water pump pliers teeth that are 58HRC no mater how much leverage the handles have. I bet those NWS teeth are softer than Knipex.

 

[helterskelter]

I might have some channel locks at work I can test. They're old channel lock though. The only new channel lock I have in my box at home are side cutters and some other nipper type pliers (I own Knipex for water pump pliers ). But I will test them next time I'm in the shop and have a minute.

And yeah I agree, 58HRC is very hard. It's safe to say they're a reasonably high grade of tool steel with a HT cycle that involves a gas fan quench. You wouldn't want to mill the stuff (carbide would do it but yuck). If I had to take a wild guess I'd say they're rough machined, heat treated for hardness, then final ground to shape (just a wild guess how I would make them). I agree you'd have to really abuse them to ruin the teeth in a single event like happened with the vise grips (of course they will wear over time).

What would be really interesting is to toss the silly putty vise grips in the next steel furnace cycle with a gas fan quench and see if they come out any harder. That might be a little tougher

*edit* I will also say I bet you could HT those NWS pliers and end up with something very hard (after you reshape the teeth with a file). Crappy steel won't get hard like good steel. You'd ruin them pretty grips though .

 

[Tooling Around]

Has the quality of NWS pliers improved since this thread was started?

 

[Jim Diesel]

I find that this can happen if you were trying to grip something that was case harden and had knrulling, teeth or was splined.

 

[GSMotorrad]

Has the quality of NWS pliers improved since this thread was started?

I love mine, haven't had any issues with their hardness or whatever. I have the satin chromed versions, first pliers I've ever had that just don't rust. I can't even get the chrome to chip. The handles are the best I've ever handled. I only have the 10" waterpump push-button "cobra" and needle nose.

The 10" cobra pliers are really lightweight compared to my 10" Knipex Pliers Wrench. The NWS weigh 12.7oz and the Knipex weighs 1 lb and 3 oz.

 

[Tooling Around]

Has anyone had the chance to compare the NWS Quattro water pump pliers with the Knipex Cobra?

I've read that the Knipex Cobra's are self clamping though I'm not sure if the NWS pliers are as well. Does the Cobra's self clamping feature make them easier to use?

 

[Blöckw@rt]

^^

I've got both and I like the NWS a little bit more than the cobra, cause the Quattro Grip (imho) makes a sturdier feeling and has less lateral play between the jaws compared to the cobra.

Btw.I use 2 NWS Classic waterpump pliers since 3-4 years @ daily work and I had never any problems.

 

[jallyn]

i bet the Knipex still look good

+1. I have both NWS and Knipex. The difference is between good and great.

 

[fatfillup]

I have worn out several pairs of Knipex Alligator and Cobra pliers over the years but will continue to buy them as they work great as pipe wrench pliers. Use them daily with no regrets. Rarely grab the Channellocks any more.

 

[Superbec]

WOW i use pump pliers daily also had my Klein set for 6 years now and still sharp teeth. Wanted to buy a NWS or Knipex pair with the easier adjustment, but I think I will hold on to my Klein's for now.

don't put nws and knipex in the same boat, they are different animals.

 

[Ghost11]

I have lots of nws pliers, but there my home use tools. At work, i use channellocks and beat the absolute hell outta of them. To me, nws seems more like a precision tool, while channelocks and my klein linemans are more industrial rated. But doesnt it feel good that you completely used up a tool, and now need a replacement. For hard use, i couldnt see my nws pliers holding up as long as kleins or channelocks. I bet you nws would warranty them.

 

[r_olson_06]

don't put nws and knipex in the same boat, they are different animals.

[emoji106]

Quote from over 3 years ago wow.

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

 

[GSMotorrad]

Quote from over 3 years ago wow.

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

NWS pliers are better than people crying about forum dates all day. On a current, ongoing thread, no less.

 

[r_olson_06]

NWS pliers are better than people crying about forum dates all day. On a current, ongoing thread, no less.

I have both NWS and knipex and I would have to say hands down on knipex all day long. Maybe you perfer NWS because of the look but knipex will out perform NWS

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

 

[GSMotorrad]

I have both NWS and knipex and I would have to say hands down on knipex all day long. Maybe you perfer NWS because of the look but knipex will out perform NWS

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

Why do you think I prefer NWS over Knipex? I never said that. Maybe you prefer men over women because you like mustache rides.

 

[r_olson_06]

Why do you think I prefer NWS over Knipex? I never said that. Maybe you prefer men over women because you like mustache rides.

Stop being a troll.

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk