Waekon patent infringement on Loadpro

[GeneralDisorder]

Almost all electronics are made outside the US. Even if the VoltPro is "made" in the USA it's likely only assembled here of mostly foreign made components.

Also it's twice the price and I'm sure Dan was going for a tool that's economical as much as it is useful.

The VoltPro has some nice features but they are beyond most technicians and those features will never be used by the vast majority of the LoadPro's target market. It also has a tiny meter readout of questionable quality compared to the LoadPro which uses your high quality stand-alone meter of whatever quality you wish.

GD

 

[srmofo]

That really changes my view of this whole thing. The loadpro is made in china. I have it and it's well made but if I was looking at buying one or the other I think I would go with the weakon for the simple fact being made in the USA would be the tipping factor.

I've asked Dan to give an unbiased as possible review of the features of each tool to try and see what tool does what and the benefits of each. I don't believe he has other than saying the loadpro tests both the pos and negative side at once while the volt pro you have to test each side individually. But that isn't really an advantage of the loadpro because if you test both sides at once and come up with a fault you still have to test each side individually to track down where the fault is, unless I'm missing something?

I was all for the loadpro and supporting Dan and have had the tool and his book for a while now. But if I didn't have a loadpro and was trying to decide between getting a voltpro and loadpro I think the USA vs china would weigh pretty heavy on my decision and I would end up with a voltpro. Unless Dan can explain what features the loadpro does that the voltpro can't. It ***** if weakon did steal his idea.

They are both made in China from what i read.

Second you are comparing an affordable test lead $40 to a $350 tool.

Personally i don't needneed a volt meter that only has 2 digits, i already own a logic probe, and both units have the load test function.

Also it has been my experience that tools that claim to do everything tend to do everything poorly.

 

[Brownsfan]

I dont know where in the USA it is made but it is made here. I dont think it is made here in Cleveland though. Like I said before if Weakon stole this idea from Dan then he should go after them. I met a few of the guys from Weakon and they have all been class acts in helping me replace my defective Volt Pro. The Volt Pro is my go to test tool I use it for basic testing all the way to to advanced diagnostics. All the funtions work like they are supposed to and could not be easier.

 

[my58]

All good ideas are stolen, it happens at all levels... chances are you wrote that on an operating system (Windows/Mac) that was stolen from Xerox.

I do not dis agree with your statement about all good Ideas are stolen, however Just for the record in the case of the Xerox operating system developed at Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research Center) The execs of Xerox at the time with their cocky attitudes that copy machines were always going to be the big technology threw away and gave away the "visual operating system" and all the hard working developers that were working on it. (Nobody stole it)

Most were loyal Xerox employees that did not want to go work elswhere, however Xerox forced everyone to go. It was looked at as a cost savings plan by eliminating those employees and also as a benifit removing "NON CORPORATE TYPES" (young un-ruley computer types) from the company.

 

[Brownsfan]

According to this link the VOLT-PRO is made in the USA http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d....oap?ck=Search_N0221_-1_-1&pt=N0221&ppt=C0371 And this one http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool-warehouse/WAE-76600.html Just 2 links that I found after googling the part number. Also the Volt Pro is no where near 350. Can be found anywhere from 99-150 depending on where you get it. The Load Pro is 75 on sale right now on the Snap On truck. I am sure it can be found for less.

 

[MrMark]

They are both made in China from what i read.

Second you are comparing an affordable test lead $40 to a $350 tool.

Personally i don't needneed a volt meter that only has 2 digits, i already own a logic probe, and both units have the load test function.

Also it has been my experience that tools that claim to do everything tend to do everything poorly.

Just a little off there. VoltPro is $92 and American made. Made at Waekon's US manf plant in Mississippi as I recall. Says it right on their website if you look.

As to meter accuracy???? Doesn't everyone on here say the Harbor Freight meter is "just fine" for automotive voltage testing? Why is this unit's voltmeter any different?

 

[Brownsfan]

Just a little off there. VoltPro is $92 and American made. Made at Waekon's US manf plant in Mississippi as I recall. Says it right on their website if you look.

Just found as well for 92. The load pro on the same site is 54. http://www.aeswave.com/HI-VIS-VoltPRO-Circuit-Tester-p9040.html

 

[MrMark]

$50 China made test lead with $4 dollars worth of parts, resistor and switch, vs a $92 sophisticated electronic device with many circuits, selective loading, tests for 12V, 5V, ground, glitch capture, computer safe because it was designed with the intelligence to test for volt levels before it allows a much smaller and safer load to be applied, voltmeter, min max capture, and US made. Yeah, that's not a fair comparison.

 

[Brownsfan]

$50 China made test lead with $4 dollars worth of parts, resistor and switch, vs a $92 sophisticated electronic device with many circuits, selective loading, tests for 12V, 5V, ground, glitch capture, computer safe because it was designed with the intelligence to test for volt levels before it allows a much smaller and safer load to be applied, voltmeter, min max capture, and US made. Yeah, that's not a fair comparison.

Couldnt have said it better. Considering it is 75 on the Cornwell truck and the Volt pro os 112. Pretty easy decision

 

[Brownsfan]

I believe Dan is talking about this tool at first in his video http://www.hickok-inc.com/catalog/products/78265-voltage-drop-tester.html. But shows this in the video http://www.hickok-inc.com/catalog/products/76600_voltpro.html So which one does he have a problem with? The first tool is around 350. Looks like he has an issue with both. And also has a problem with the Power Probe as well. According to Dan they are pieces of ****

 

[srmofo]

Just a little off there. VoltPro is $92 and American made. Made at Waekon's US manf plant in Mississippi as I recall. Says it right on their website if you look.

As to meter accuracy???? Doesn't everyone on here say the Harbor Freight meter is "just fine" for automotive voltage testing? Why is this unit's voltmeter any different?

In my skimming i thought the guy in post 118 knew what he was talking about when he said china. That's why i said from what i read.

What 350 tool is dan talking about in his videos?...and i could of swore i read that earlier in this thread. That does make a difference in my opinion.

I have never endorsed a HF meter, nor have i seen anyone i would call a professional recommend a HF meter. Its better than nothing if you are in a tight spot, and an excellent candidate to leave in a car box. If I'm chasing an electrical problem the last thing i want to be doing is questioning my tools accuracy and reliability.

There's probably less than $4 worth of parts in the volt pro as well. Circuitry is cheap as hell especially when it comes from China. Just ask Apple. The cost of development is what we are talking about.

Test leads are expensive. A set of fluke leads are $90. I don't think $40 with a little extra capability is a bad deal for China leads.

Does the volt pro auto select the load needed to test the circuit?

 

[MrMark]

it has a fixed load (much higher (less draw) than the loadpro and safe) that it applies when the load mode is used. However, because it is a clever device with intelligence and because it can test both sides independently (which I consider an important advantage for most) it tests the probe tip for voltage level FIRST before it applies its load. It does this for at least two reasons as I see it: 1) this device has to know "where it is" B+ or B- because it has to switch electronically its internal voltmeter connection points and its power supply either the high side of the circuit itself for high side or the tool's B+ for low side, and 2) because it checks for 5V ref signals and does not allow load testing on those at all.

I am assuming they do more than just put together parts from China in the Waekon manf plant in the US. I really don't know what exactly they do there but I am guessing it is more than just assembling parts. I am thinking they actually make the shell and the pcb. What more do you want? I love how people actually downtalk a company that actually does do something in the states. I have a feeling that they are doing a lot more than most to keep us jobs here.

The accuracy of the voltmeter is stated right on the tool's sale literature. It seems to be similar to power probe and basic meter accuracy. Good enough for what it is doing in the form of quick checks, no?

I just bought the pomona deluxe auto kit that included test leads and a whole lot more for 100 bucks and they are same as fluke quality wise.

 

[Brownsfan]

In my skimming i thought the guy in post 118 knew what he was talking about when he said china. That's why i said from what i read.

What 350 tool is dan talking about in his videos?...and i could of swore i read that earlier in this thread. That does make a difference in my opinion.

I have never endorsed a HF meter, nor have i seen anyone i would call a professional recommend a HF meter. Its better than nothing if you are in a tight spot, and an excellent candidate to leave in a car box. If I'm chasing an electrical problem the last thing i want to be doing is questioning my tools accuracy and reliability.

There's probably less than $4 worth of parts in the volt pro as well. Circuitry is cheap as hell especially when it comes from China. Just ask Apple. The cost of development is what we are talking about.

Test leads are expensive. A set of fluke leads are $90. I don't think $40 with a little extra capability is a bad deal for China leads.

Does the volt pro auto select the load needed to test the circuit?

I think he is talking about this tool at first in the video. I found for around 275ish on various siteshttp://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/WAK0/78265/N0221.oap?ck=Search_N0221_-1_-1&pt=N0221&ppt=C0371 Also MADE IN THE USA. I believe all Waekon tools are USA

 

[FiendFX]

Fluke leads are $20 buck and are made in china. Those are basic leads that is.

 

[MrMark]

Fluke leads are $20 buck and are made in china. Those are basic leads that is.

Yes, I've seen those in Sears at that price.

Do you know about Pomona? I must say I was disappointed to see NO COO info on the Pomona equipment I just bought. Nothing on the package either. I am seeing more and more stuff like that with no marking at all. NO marking means CHINA. Why are they allowed to get away with this?

 

[ATTappman]

Can someone explain in laymans terms what i should not test with the load pro ,just so i do not damage anything.I understand how to use the loadpro and what the readings mean ,just not sure about the "ECM Saftey".

I will take a shot at answering your question, knowing that others will surely step in if I get it wrong.

Suppose you're testing a circuit that looks like this: there's a connector with a red wire from the positive terminal of the battery and a white wire to the ECM. The connector is plugged into a solenoid. Inside the ECM is a transistor that the white wire connects to, and that transistor is connected to ground. When everything works like it's supposed to, the ECM transistor switches on and current flows from the battery, through the solenoid, through the transistor inside the ECM, to ground.

Assume there are no faults in this circuit, but you're doing an experiment. You disconnect the solenoid, command the transistor in the ECM to turn on with your scan tool, put your red Loadpro lead on the red wire's connector terminal, and your black lead on the white wire's terminal. What you've done is equivalent to this imaginary setup: a wire with a manual switch in series with a 25-ohm resistor across the two connector terminals, with the switch open, and the non-Loadpro leads of a voltmeter across the connector terminals. With the switch open, no current flows through the resistor. A tiny current flows through through voltmeter with its 10 Mohm resistance, and it will measure 12.6 V or whatever the battery voltage is.

You press the button on your Loadpro, which is equivalent to closing the switch in the imaginary setup I just described. Now current flows through the resistor. The current will be the battery voltage divided by the sum of the resistances in the wiring, the resistor itself, and the ECM transistor. Let's say that current is 0.5 amps.

If the ECM transistor was designed for a current flow that's much less than 0.5 amps, and you press the Loadpro button long enough, the transistor may overheat and fail. The same thing can happen if you use a test light to complete a circuit involving the ECM, and the test light's bulb has a resistance much lower than the circuit's normal load.

I don't know how likely this is to happen because I don't know anything about the hardware inside an ECM. Another way to damage an ECM is to accidentally short the circuit while backprobing both wires in a connector, with the ECM transistor turned on.

To be absolutely safe, you would never press your Loadpro button with the leads inserted into a connector that has a wire running to the ECM.

 

[MrMark]

Great explanation. The ECM would also have an onboard monitoring circuit at that point to measure and monitor the current/and or voltage at the ECM that would have to be considered as to whether it could be damaged.


http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/elec06.pdf

 

[mikebramel]

Waekon circuit load is 80 milli amps. Loadpro is 500

 

[Dan_Sullivan]

Thanks ATTappman - that's a perfect explanation, BUT, we are safe to test sensor driver wires, and a great many guys have used the leads as a substitute sender. One in Illinois has adapted to tool for use on PLCs and pretty sophisticated systems.

 

[richfinn]

Oh dear COO again, thats me out of the debate as there is nothing new here unless you like politics and *** kissing.

Another decent thread ruined.

 

[MrMark]

I don't know the first thing about you other than what you post here and a couple of video's. You've been caught in making less than truthful statements (the whole they stole my patent comes to mind), overselling, exaggeration and emotional irrationality. You got suckered into the whole patent thing - even filing foreign patents - unbelievably, when you should have saved all that king's ransom and spent it on something useful like good marketing or improving your tool. You are kind of the poster child for why people shouldn't worry about patents instead of worrying about selling.

The reason I even noted who you were is in reading all your comments trashing the power probe and other devices. You trash everything other than your leads, even when they are for entirely different purposes, and act like you invented sliced bread.

 

[Brownsfan]

I'm out. This has gotten out of hand. The last thing I will say is this. All the products mentioned in the thread are good products regardless of COO. The load pro serves its purpose and does it well. The Volt Pro serves its purpose as well and to me is a different tool and is NOT a piece of **** as stated in the video I watched. I own the volt pro and will be buying the load pro because I use my meter the most out of all my electrical tools and it compliments my meter. I can see Dan is passionate about what he does maybe too passionate but who am I to say. I really like my volt pro and will continue to use it but will give the Load pro a try.

 

[MrMark]

Just buy a 25 ohm resistor and put it across the connector. Then put the meter across that. Bingo - Load Pro for 29 cents and you get to keep your fluke leads. Better yet, buy a couple resistors of higher value and use those too.

 

[richfinn]

Just buy a 25 ohm resistor and put it across the connector. Then put the meter across that. Bingo - Load Pro for 29 cents and you get to keep your fluke leads. Better yet, buy a couple resistors of higher value and use those too.

Give it a rest Mark, this is 13 years of Dans life that your shitting on

You are a better man than that.

 

[MrMark]

Give it a rest Mark, this is 13 years of Dans life that your shitting on

Your a better man than that.

You should have seen what he posted and then deleted. Maybe then you would understand. He came on here to sell his product and bagging on everyone else, even calling Waekon thiefs and making a piece of ****. That kind of stuff shouldn't be allowed to stand.

 

[Brownsfan]

Still going to buy it to try out. I was a small business owner and understand why he is as passionate as he is. But I am not **** canning my volt pro

 

[bcradio]

I just bought the pomona deluxe auto kit that included test leads and a whole lot more for 100 bucks and they are same as fluke quality wise.

Would you recommend these? They look nice like they'd fit the bill perfectly.

 

[MrMark]

Would you recommend these? They look nice like they'd fit the bill perfectly.

They look and are nice. They only thing missing is a set of small gators.

 

[Dan_Sullivan]

Tool Comparison Video - Volt-Pro, LOADpro and Powerprobe

Shot video today using Cummins in a Kenworth. Added Ω to ECM power circuit with rheostat and tested all three tools - LOADpro, Volt-Pro, and Powerprobe.

Should post Friday.

BTW - Snake oil is an excellent dielectric and works very well on Deutsche connectors.

 

[MrMark]

maybe so if it pushes completely off the pin contacts when mechanical connection is made, but I didn't post the tags although they are hilarious.

I'm just a diy'er trying to learn this stuff too.

 

[whizzy]

I will take a shot at answering your question, knowing that others will surely step in if I get it wrong.

Suppose you're testing a circuit that looks like this: there's a connector with a red wire from the positive terminal of the battery and a white wire to the ECM. The connector is plugged into a solenoid. Inside the ECM is a transistor that the white wire connects to, and that transistor is connected to ground. When everything works like it's supposed to, the ECM transistor switches on and current flows from the battery, through the solenoid, through the transistor inside the ECM, to ground.

Assume there are no faults in this circuit, but you're doing an experiment. You disconnect the solenoid, command the transistor in the ECM to turn on with your scan tool, put your red Loadpro lead on the red wire's connector terminal, and your black lead on the white wire's terminal. What you've done is equivalent to this imaginary setup: a wire with a manual switch in series with a 25-ohm resistor across the two connector terminals, with the switch open, and the non-Loadpro leads of a voltmeter across the connector terminals. With the switch open, no current flows through the resistor. A tiny current flows through through voltmeter with its 10 Mohm resistance, and it will measure 12.6 V or whatever the battery voltage is.

You press the button on your Loadpro, which is equivalent to closing the switch in the imaginary setup I just described. Now current flows through the resistor. The current will be the battery voltage divided by the sum of the resistances in the wiring, the resistor itself, and the ECM transistor. Let's say that current is 0.5 amps.

If the ECM transistor was designed for a current flow that's much less than 0.5 amps, and you press the Loadpro button long enough, the transistor may overheat and fail. The same thing can happen if you use a test light to complete a circuit involving the ECM, and the test light's bulb has a resistance much lower than the circuit's normal load.

I don't know how likely this is to happen because I don't know anything about the hardware inside an ECM. Another way to damage an ECM is to accidentally short the circuit while backprobing both wires in a connector, with the ECM transistor turned on.

To be absolutely safe, you would never press your Loadpro button with the leads inserted into a connector that has a wire running to the ECM.

Thanks for the explanation ,like i say i am a diyer trying to learn some trouble shooting .So basically if i were using the loadpro for trouble shooting for faulty wiring in central locking ,light circuits ,wiring to fuel pump i should be ok to use the loadpro as long as i make sure theres no wire running to the ECM or am i way off the mark here ? Sorry for sounding dumb guys just want to learn and i do like the look of Dans loadpro despite it being a touchy topic.

 

[joedodge]

Dan if I buy the leads from blue point on the truck is it the same as ordering them I wanna try a set as I do a lot of diag and electrical on emergency vehicles but wanna help you out to.

 

[Dan_Sullivan]

Yep - the Blue-Point leads are ours. EECT-180. Let me know if you have any questions about how they work. Just add the word "loaded" in front of the word "voltage" anytime you see it and you'll get it. Put them on the meter and don't take them off - that affords you the chance to see all 3 faults without thinking about it. Ghost V = open; 0.0V = short-to-gnd; Low V = high resistance. It's that easy.

 

[joedodge]

Ok excellent I'd like to get a set and give them a shot. I think I'd use them a good bit, thanks a lot Dan. So you've never had an issue checking 5 volt reference wires or ECM power wires?

 

[Dan_Sullivan]

Hey Whizzy -

You don't sound dumb - asking questions proves you're smart. My whole concept is that if you learn to read the voltmeter better - including the LOADpro, you don't have to predict an answer. You just see it. There are only 3 wire faults - open, short-to-gnd and high Ω - and if you read the meter right you just see them.

Try this:

 

[whizzy]

Hey Whizzy -

You don't sound dumb - asking questions proves you're smart. My whole concept is that if you learn to read the voltmeter better - including the LOADpro, you don't have to predict an answer. You just see it. There are only 3 wire faults - open, short-to-gnd and high Ω - and if you read the meter right you just see them.

Try this:

Thanks Dan.Just trying to make sure i don't fry anything on my car when experimenting with the loadpro when i get it Always been a bit wary of ECU and ECM as one mistake and the cars kaput !Rather ask the questions and try and understand the tester leads than mess up big time.

 

[ATTappman]

For anyone interested I put a copy of Dan's patent on a file sharing site (4shared.com). This site makes you go through a couple of steps to download the .pdf file. Can somebody suggest a better site to use?

There's a nice flowchart in the patent that shows his testing methodology.

 

[Dan_Sullivan]

I would like to ask a very serious question, and if you interpret the question correctly, you'll understand what has been troubling me and frustrating me from the very beginning of this patent process.

Question: Why is it that if anyone else on this forum makes positive comments about a particular tool they like, that's just what they do - but - if I come on and make positive comments about something that I'm trying to teach (voltmeter-only diagnostics) that depends upon a tool I happened to invent - I'm trying to sell my tool?

Ignore the "****" comments in the video because the context was more the "testlight" nature than the load feature. Could've said it better anyway - I was just really p*ssed.

This is the problem I've had from the start. It's never gone away. It's the primary reason this has taken 13 years.

I'm asking seriously - seriously...

(Oh yeah - whoever tagged this as sullivan's snake oil, you misspelled Sullivan's and forgot to capitalize. It needs the apostrophe to make it possessive. Otherwise it means more than one Sullivan. I don't think that would be a good thing. Always a teacher...)

 

[Brownsfan]

I really don't know. I am picking my load pro up from my snap on guy tomorrow to try it out. What I was put off by is you calling the waekon tool a piece of ****. When in reality it is not. I can appreciate your passion but bashing the competition is not the way to do it. I owned a business (automotive electrical specialist) and never bashed my competition. Why? Because it makes you look bad. I don't think you are here just trying to sell your tool. But if you are who cares you are adding value at the same time. I said in a post in this thread that the waekon guys were nothing but class acts to me. I am local to them and they drove to my shop and swapped out my defective volt pro. I will buy your tool and feel pretty good about it because I am helping out 2 small businesses at the same time. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors. In my opinion just be a little more tactful in your references to the competition.

 

[whizzy]

I think it's good that Dan pushes his product. After all if he did not, i would never have stumbled upon it !! Not saying he is always pushing it ,but if he were , he does have a right to do that anyway , as it is his to do as he pleases.