Dual 80 ratchets - made in USA?

[Voltron]

Got my first 80 tooth's a few days ago (fh80 and FLF80) and was really happy, beautiful mechanism, everything i expected and more. Happy until i took them to work, and showed a guy who is a bigger tool-geek than me. He took a quick look and threw them back at me. Doesnt say USA on it, he says.

Needless to say, i'm devastated, i'm firmly in the camp that says if a tool is manufactured somewhere to be proud of, it'll say it in big letters. If it says nothing it comes from you-know-where.

So whats the story? Are these made in Asia? Foreign made components? Had a scan through the board and i cant find anything mentioning this, i would have thought that if Snap-on are making tools in China (or somewhere like that) it would cause a wave here?

 

[Stanger]

They are made in USA. Snap-On just didn't stamp all of them. I believe it was some sort of experiment to see how customers reacted. Needless to say, it didn't go over well. All is good though. Your ratchet is in fact made in USA.

 

[nissan_crawler]

SEARCH!! Your tool geek is an idiot.

 

[Merkava_4]

So what's the story?

You have been the victim of a corporate psychological experiment.

 

[Voltron]

Ahem, thank you, i searched. If you could share with me the exact search terms that bring up the relevant threads that would be nice, as none of my searches provided anything.

So i guess Snap-On are experimenting for the day when they dont put Made in USA on their products because the arn't?

 

[billymade]

Don't feel bad! The website is based on vBulletin software; the search engine for this website ***** IMHO, I hate searching for things on this website!

You can use Google to search only within one specific website by entering the search terms you're looking for, followed by the word "site" and a colon followed by the domain name.

For example, here's how you'd find admission information on the Stanford University site: e.g. "admission site:www.stanford.edu"
http://www.google.com/support/bin/static.py?page=searchguides.html&ctx=advanced&hl=en

 

[Merkava_4]

So I guess Snap-On are experimenting for the day when they don't put Made in USA on their products because they arn't?

I can't understand why Snap-on would do that unless they are greedy and want to expand their profit margin. They certainly don't need to compete with economy tools because their customer is not looking for economy tools; their customer wants high quality.

 

[nissan_crawler]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15089&highlight=Snap-On+made+usa+fl80&page=2

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19470&highlight=Snap-On+made+usa+f80

There's a couple for you after a quick search.

 

[bushhawg73]

I would send them back and tell them that you paid 100.00 or more for a MADE IN THE USA TOOL and that you want one that is stamped MADE IN THE USA.

 

[nissan_crawler]

I would send them back and tell them that you paid 100.00 or more for a MADE IN THE USA TOOL and that you want one that is stamped MADE IN THE USA.

And they'll give your money back and tell you to go fly a kite.

 

[lbgradwell]

Sorry, but I'm going to have to just go ahead and disagree here; if they aren't stamped "Made in USA", they aren't made in USA.

 

[nissan_crawler]

Sorry, but I'm going to have to just go ahead and disagree here; if they aren't stamped "Made in USA", they aren't made in USA.

My *** isn't stamped "made in north dakota", but I can guarantee you that's where I was made.

 

[lbgradwell]

My *** isn't stamped "made in north dakota", but I can guarantee you that's where I was made.

OK, but I'm much more inclined to believe your Mom than some SO Corporate BS!

 

[bushhawg73]

My *** isn't stamped "made in north dakota", but I can guarantee you that's where I was made.

And the question is would I pay 100.00 for you?
Do you have 80 teeth?
Are you covered in chrome?
Is your head flexible?

If so please be in route to your local service center so that we can offically stamp "you ***" with made in North Dakota and Snap On.

On a serious note, I have returned brand new ratchets to my dealer bacause the chrome chipped off when I engraved my initals in the tool. No problem, he gave me a completly brand new ratchet. In this case I am sure that he would swap it out for me with one that says MADE IN USA.

 

[wrenchr]

If one part of that ratchet is made else where then would'nt they not be able to stamp USA?? Like say the selector??

 

[speed bump]

My *** isn't stamped "made in north dakota", but I can guarantee you that's where I was made.

It doesn't need to be you ussually can tell if someones a North Dakotan within 5 minutes of the conversion. Kind of like you don't need to stamp made in Alaska, California, or Texas on someones *** either becuase they will tell you that shortly after you meet them.

 

[eschoendorff]

Okay... I think you guys are missing the point. I have an 80 that doesn NOT have USA stamped on it that I bought new off the truck. The quality is impeccable and the ratchet does exactly what it was advertised to do.

If the Snap On tool you bought works as advertised, then really, what the **** are you complaining about???? It seems to me that you chose a Snap On 80 series ratchet because you wanted a high-quality device to turn fasteners. If that is what you got... the I don't see any basis for your whining.

Seriously guys... the whole made in USA thing is noble, really. But I am afraid that you are fighting a losing battle. We live in a global economy, and complaining to you dealer is NOT going to change that. Sure, you can take your money elsewhere, but the money that you spend with your dealer still supports an American family regardless of where the ratchet was made.

There is more to the economy than simply manufacturing.... if you buy a GearWrench ratchet from a local source, you are supporting that local business and the families that depend on it.

In the end, you paid for Snap On technology and QC. That is what you received. Anything beyond that is really a little unreasonable....

 

[84TurboBuick]

Okay... I think you guys are missing the point. I have an 80 that doesn NOT have USA stamped on it that I bought new off the truck. The quality is impeccable and the ratchet does exactly what it was advertised to do.

If the Snap On tool you bought works as advertised, then really, what the **** are you complaining about???? It seems to me that you chose a Snap On 80 series ratchet because you wanted a high-quality device to turn fasteners. If that is what you got... the I don't see any basis for your whining.

Seriously guys... the whole made in USA thing is noble, really. But I am afraid that you are fighting a losing battle. We live in a global economy, and complaining to you dealer is NOT going to change that. Sure, you can take your money elsewhere, but the money that you spend with your dealer still supports an American family regardless of where the ratchet was made.

There is more to the economy than simply manufacturing.... if you buy a GearWrench ratchet from a local source, you are supporting that local business and the families that depend on it.

In the end, you paid for Snap On technology and QC. That is what you received. Anything beyond that is really a little unreasonable....

I agree with you to a point....

However with that said.... I think most people pay a premium for Snap-On not only for the quality but also due to the fact that it is in fact Made In The USA.

I've noticed many a thread lately where some members have bought "Premium" tools only to find it was made overseas. It seems that you are still paying the old price for a tool that is not as well built.

I'll buy tools made overseas, but I won't pay Made In The USA prices for them.

Oh well, thats my $.02 anyhow.

 

[eschoendorff]

I agree with you to a point....

However with that said.... I think most people pay a premium for Snap-On not only for the quality but also due to the fact that it is in fact Made In The USA.

I've noticed many a thread lately where some members have bought "Premium" tools only to find it was made overseas. It seems that you are still paying the old price for a tool that is not as well built.

I'll buy tools made overseas, but I won't pay Made In The USA prices for them.

Oh well, thats my $.02 anyhow.

I actually agree with you there.... but in those other cases, you can buy similar tools under the Stanley or GearWrench name. With Snap On, you have completely unique designs that do not share any technology with any consumer branded tools.

 

[bushhawg73]

MY point was to contact your dealer. My guy wants my business and I want to support my local toolman and his family. I know he would get me one that was stamped made in USA. Enough said.

 

[Delray]

I have the same two. No USA mark either. I'll be dropping Snap On a line with my view on this. Maybe they need a new face in their Great New Idea department.

 

[eschoendorff]

MY point was to contact your dealer. My guy wants my business and I want to support my local toolman and his family. I know he would get me one that was stamped made in USA. Enough said.

If taht works for you, then go for it. I don't believe taht the dealers really have much control over how Snap On corporate decides to stamp their ratchets though.

If your dealer have been in the Snap On system for a few years, he might have a little leverage with corporate. But in most cases, insisting on a Snap On tool that is stamped a certain way puts undo pressure on a dealer with limited authority/ability to serve the customer.

 

[Delray]

The poor guy in the truck probably has little to no input as for corporate decisions and I would not bother him other than to mention it. I also realize we live in a global economy-Pontiac G-8's are built in Australia, but they are clearly marked as such so I can make my choice if I wish to support an assembly line worker in the USA or overseas. I see nothing wrong with buying imported goods ( I sure have plenty ) but if I can buy quality goods made here I will pay a reasonable premium for that pleasure. Marking these items made in USA guarantees my satisfaction for the expenditure.

 

[wilbilt]

If taht works for you, then go for it. I don't believe taht the dealers really have much control over how Snap On corporate decides to stamp their ratchets though.

I know we have already run this *** through the wringer a few times, but I think it is a matter worthy of discussion.

I have no problem with global manufacturing per se, and I can see the quality of Asian tools has improved tremendously over the past 20 years or so.

I buy imported stuff, as it is impossible to avoid these days. I have plenty of Harbor Freight items, and most of them do what they were designed to do at their price point.

The problem I have with the entire situation is that if I am buying an imported tool, I want to know where it came from, so that I, as a consumer, can make an informed choice.

The law states that the ultimate consumer of any imported product must be clearly informed of the country of origin of that product.

It also states that such notification must be obvious and that the consumer "must be able to read it without strain".

There are specific items that must be permanently marked with their country of origin. The list includes pliers, shears and knives, among others.

We all know that these laws are being violated by tool companies on a daily basis. Why doesn't anyone care?

In the case of the ratchet being discussed, everyone who purchases one must know, without a doubt where it was made. It's the law.

If the ratchets came in a box of 50, and the box said "Made in Taiwan" on the outside, that will get it through customs. If the tools are not delivered to the end user in that box and there is no other indication of where they were made, the law has been violated.

If there was a tag or sticker on each tool with that information, and it was removed by Snap-On distribution or the dealer, the law has been violated.

The laws are there to provide consumers with the information they need to make an informed purchase.

The tool companies are actively trying to circumvent these laws in any way possible without getting caught.

Doesn't that bother you?

 

[bowtie3]

I'm not sure why some say USA and some don't. I have three of them and love them (one is not stamped USA). I have a friend that works for S.O. in management and he tells me that the gears and pawls for the 80's are made in Japan due to needing such tight specs that S.O. couldn't get every time, so they outsourced instead of spending millions to get equipment to do it with. I know some of you guys won't belive it but this guy was involved with the design and production from the beginning. oh yea he had no explaination for the stamping USA question.

 

[dxdexter]

If I was paying a premium for Snap-on tools then they better have USA stamped on them or cost half what they now cost, but even if Asian Snap-on tools they were the same cost as other Asian tools, I would not buy them when other equal north American alternatives exist.

We have developed the Walmart mentality. Cheap goods no matter what the economic repercussions. Let your wallets talk and buy local.

 

[olds88]

I buy imported stuff, as it is impossible to avoid these days. I have plenty of Harbor Freight items, and most of them do what they were designed to do at their price point.

I know one way: stay out of the Harbor Freight!

I've never been to a HF... never even seen one, I don't think they have them in NYC... I know theres one not far from where I work here in Florida now... but I have no desire to find out exactly where and go in. From what I've heard they're basically the WAL MART of tools.

I never shop there either.

 

[wilbilt]

I have a friend that works for S.O. in management and he tells me that the gears and pawls for the 80's are made in Japan due to needing such tight specs that S.O. couldn't get every time, so they outsourced instead of spending millions to get equipment to do it with. I know some of you guys won't belive it but this guy was involved with the design and production from the beginning. oh yea he had no explaination for the stamping USA question.

If this is true, then maybe SO didn't want to take a chance on stamping them USA. To claim US origin, the item must be made from "all" or "virtually all" US components and labor.

Since the gear and pawls are significant parts of the ratchet (i.e., they make the ratchet a ratchet) it could be argued that the ratchet is not "Made in USA".

 

[dxdexter]

If this is true, then maybe SO didn't want to take a chance on stamping them USA. To claim US origin, the item must be made from "all" or "virtually all" US components and labor.

Since the gear and pawls are significant parts of the ratchet (i.e., they make the ratchet a ratchet) it could be argued that the ratchet is not "Made in USA".

Maybe that's why only the initial run has USA stamping. Did they get caught?????

 

[wilbilt]

I know one way: stay out of the Harbor Freight!

I've never been to a HF... never even seen one, I don't think they have them in NYC... I know theres one not far from where I work here in Florida now... but I have no desire to find out exactly where and go in. From what I've heard they're basically the WAL MART of tools.

I never shop there either.

HF can be a good source for some things, mostly consumables. Some of their tools have improved quite a bit, too.

I hate shopping at Mao Mart, but there is nothing else here.

 

[wilbilt]

Maybe that's why only the initial run has USA stamping. Did they get caught?????

I don't see anything in the FTC rulings with Snap-on listed. Stanley is in there, of course...

 

[olds88]

I looked at their website, and I find it pretty ironic that their main brand is called "Pittsburgh", a city whose economy was based on manufacturing, and now has nothing.

Where I'm from we had Eagle Electric (Cooper Wiring Devices) factories, several of them, they all closed within the past 4 or 5 years... they moved all the tooling to China apparently... Swingline Staplers was another big factory, they closed as soon as NAFTA passed... Standard Motor Products... they're still there but IDK if they do any manufacturing at their Long Island City headquarters, the UAW's website says they make brake shoes there, but that might be outdated... Cecilware and Steinway are still around I believe. Fortunately NYC's economy wasn't 100% dependent on manufacturing, unlike many other cities.

 

[Fedwrench]

This is where I get confused on the whole made in USA thing. Do you like the ratchet? Does it perform well? Do you like using it? Is it durable? Do you want different versions of it? Would you buy it again? etc. If you answered yes to these questions then why does it matter if it has USA on it? It has been proven that some tools even with USA on them aren't made here.
If the most important thing about your tool purchase is that the tool has USA on it, then take it back for a refund or replacement for one with USA on it. For me, if USA isn't on the tool it isn't made here but, being US made isn't my primary focus. It's the tool's performance. If I like the tool, I can live without it being US made.

 

[vssjim]

I really think that they should have to mark any tool for country of origin that way the end user can decide where to spend or not spend their money people who care will care and people who don't still won't but EVERYBODY will know period. I do agree with many members that have stated spending big money on a tool only to find out that it is still the same price but now imported is just wrong, if the big wig corp. people state that can't afford to make it here then once moved to a cheap country for production the price should reflect the money difference. Last time I checked the big brains say that the chinese money if 40 times undervalued so you figure it out.

 

[wilbilt]

I looked at their website, and I find it pretty ironic that their main brand is called "Pittsburgh", a city whose economy was based on manufacturing, and now has nothing.

At least they comply with the regulations. Those Pittsburgh tools are all stamped "CHINA". Nobody is going to buy them thinking they were made in Pennsylvania.

 

[speed bump]

This is where I get confused on the whole made in USA thing. Do you like the ratchet? Does it perform well? Do you like using it? Is it durable? Do you want different versions of it? Would you buy it again? etc. If you answered yes to these questions then why does it matter if it has USA on it? It has been proven that some tools even with USA on them aren't made here.
If the most important thing about your tool purchase is that the tool has USA on it, then take it back for a refund or replacement for one with USA on it. For me, if USA isn't on the tool it isn't made here but, being US made isn't my primary focus. It's the tool's performance. If I like the tool, I can live without it being US made.

I don't mind if a tool is not made in the USA if it meets a couple of criterion. 1.) Am I supporting a country that believes in protecting its workers, giving them a high standard of living and is not currently engaged in trying to destroy my country econically or militiarily. 2.) Is the tool superior to almost anything made in the US for that application? Personally I have found 2 such tools Bahco adjustable wrenches and Klien hacksaws both of which are made in Sweden. 3.) Could this company make this product in the US but would rather screw over american workers in search of the bottom line?

Personally I feel if the tool is made overseas it should say so, if its made here with components from another country it should state that and include a breakdown of the components and the country of origin for each component.

One final thing which to me is the biggest reason not to buy asian metal products is that with some sort of NDE you don't know if your tool is any good. I am a TA for strengths lab and we had to specifically request American steel becuase the chinese steel tends to stretch like taffy rather than performing like steel should in pull tests. When I worked as a weld inspector one time we had to x-ray inspect over 200" of stainless steel tubing that was brand new becuase the samples properties where not good enough to even think about using in a chemical plant making silane gas. This last summer when I worked in refrigeration we started sending back chinese bearing and contactors whenever we got them becuase they failed to easily compared to the US stuff. So after those experiances I cant say as I want anything to do with most asian metal products.

 

[dxdexter]

My reason to buy North American is simple. The tool may be exactly the same in every respect except one: the wages paid to the steel maker,toolmaker, maintenance personnel, truck driver, secretary and so on stay in my country. Those workers now can support their families and buy other products. if you eliminate the paid worker who will buy your goods and services.

We can't all be consumers and work retailing offshore merchandise and still afford to buy the same ****.

I try to put myself in the shoes of the worker whose manufacturing job went to China just so I can save a few bucks on a ratchet and the corporation can make millions of dollars more. Then maybe we may see things differently.

 

[ImportTuner]

My reason to buy North American is simple. The tool may be exactly the same in every respect except one: the wages paid to the steel maker,toolmaker, maintenance personnel, truck driver, secretary and so on stay in my country. Those workers now can support their families and buy other products. if you eliminate the paid worker who will buy your goods and services.

We can't all be consumers and work retailing offshore merchandise and still afford to buy the same ****.

I try to put myself in the shoes of the worker whose manufacturing job went to China just so I can save a few bucks on a ratchet and the corporation can make millions of dollars more. Then maybe we may see things differently.

+1 to what dxdester said ... if the jobs leave the US, how can the unemployed afford to buy ...

 

[84TurboBuick]

My reason to buy North American is simple. The tool may be exactly the same in every respect except one: the wages paid to the steel maker,toolmaker, maintenance personnel, truck driver, secretary and so on stay in my country. Those workers now can support their families and buy other products. if you eliminate the paid worker who will buy your goods and services.

We can't all be consumers and work retailing offshore merchandise and still afford to buy the same ****.

I try to put myself in the shoes of the worker whose manufacturing job went to China just so I can save a few bucks on a ratchet and the corporation can make millions of dollars more. Then maybe we may see things differently.

I tried to explain this very thing to my neighbor the other day.

He owns a landscaping business and is trying to get work in our area. There are currently 6 Chrysler, 2 GM and 1 Ford employee living in our neighborhood.

He just went out and bought a Mazda and a Toyota....

I tried telling him that when he does things like that soon there will be nobody left in the neighborhood to buy his product...he said "So what...I'll buy what I want"....

I responded by telling him that I'll have someone else do any work I need since I too can "Buy what I want"

He just doesn't understand the point...

 

[wilbilt]

I tried telling him that when he does things like that soon there will be nobody left in the neighborhood to buy his product...he said "So what...I'll buy what I want"....

He just doesn't understand the point...

That's a pretty common attitude these days. I think it may be like the final hours of the Titanic. Some people onboard knew the ship was going down, but most refused to believe it.

The point didn't hit home until that cold water reached their cajones and they realized they were about to die.