spare capacity planning in trench

[inphx]

It seems like I am going to need to trench and pull power and water for 280 feet to my new residence and an additional 80’ to my toy shop.

Beyond whatever I need to do to plan – I am wanting to take advantage of the trench to put some conduit for power/internet (security devices) and future options in the hole while trenches are opened up.

A few questions for you guys/gals on two points:
1) what do you regret running
2) What to use for one or two conduits?
- 2 ½” pvc conduit? One or two spares
- What goes inside for a pull line– harborfreight nylon rope or a special pull cable(s)?

The shaded areas are "no fly zones" cant disturb or alter without mucho paperwork.

 

[rburke65]

The bigger the better. PVC conduit is inexpensive. If your going any distance, run the 2" PVC.

 

[sparky36000]

Not sure if you mean two 1/2" or two and a half inch. I would not bury anything smaller than 3/4".

 

[Sureshot]

I ran a couple water lines, air lines, and telephone.
The air is awesome to have and at my next place I will do the same. I have it plumbed right into the house on top of the cord reel in the garage. I didn't run it to the barn but sure wish I had.

 

[Speedy Petey]

For that distance two 2" would be more than enough.
I would not go to 2-1/2". There is a dramatic increase in price and some things will not accept 2-1/2" where they will 2".

 

[inphx]

thx so the 2" electrical pvc conduit seems way to go.

If i leave one as spare is there a special cord or just nylon rope?

 

[Speedy Petey]

If i leave one as spare is there a special cord or just nylon rope?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001UKL6BG/?tag=atomicindus08-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0026TA6WK/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Or, if you've got a lot to do:
http://www.homedepot.com/buy/greenlee-poly-pull-line---6500-ft-430.html#.URUCZWdZOM0

 

[sparky36000]

We use stuff like the poly pull string like Petey is showing, but a small nylon rope is fine.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What size service are you going to have? Also, phone and cable companies don't like to share conduit so if you're planning on having both, then I would bury a 1" conduit for each!

 

[mayday0017]

Curious but if the pipe was empty couldn't he put a sponge with some light weight string tied to it in the pipe later and go to the other end with a decent shop vac and pull it through? I"m just thinking fishing it through as you assemble would be a fairly slow and annoying process that could possibly be avoided.

 

[Speedy Petey]

What size service are you going to have? Also, phone and cable companies don't like to share conduit so if you're planning on having both, then I would bury a 1" conduit for each!

I totally agree.
The two 2" I suggested were above and beyond the required.
In my area the phone and cable companies demand a dedicated conduit each.
For that kind of distance I'd go 1-1/2" for ph and catv, if not 2".
I use 1" up to about 100'.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Curious but if the pipe was empty couldn't he put a sponge with some light weight string tied to it in the pipe later and go to the other end with a decent shop vac and pull it through? I"m just thinking fishing it through as you assemble would be a fairly slow and annoying process that could possibly be avoided.

That's the only way.
Fishing a string in as you go is caveman in today's world.

The string I linked is designed to be vac'd or blown in.

 

[sparky36000]

Curious but if the pipe was empty couldn't he put a sponge with some light weight string tied to it in the pipe later and go to the other end with a decent shop vac and pull it through? I"m just thinking fishing it through as you assemble would be a fairly slow and annoying process that could possibly be avoided.

Guess I just assumed he was doing it after it was installed. Yes, vac it in after it's installed. A simple "mouse" made from a piece of light weight plastic and tied to to the bucket of poly line like Petey showed will shoot through like a rocket.

 

[mayday0017]

YAY I did pay attention in Garage Journal class one of the other 100 times we have talked about running wires through pipe

 

[Gary S]

I put 2 conduits in my trench. If I were doing it today, I'd put in a 3rd one for future use. I expect that some day I could use another one.
Forget pulling rope and string in a conduit. Do it like the pros do. Use an electrician's snake. It does 100x better job.

 

[bygasper]

Know what your electric codes require. I am required to run a 3" to the shop for a 400 amp service. I am then running 4 2" lines back to the house. Alarm, 3 switches in the house to turn on/off exterior lights at the shop, power...and whatever else I may ever want.

 

[sparky36000]

I put 2 conduits in my trench. If I were doing it today, I'd put in a 3rd one for future use. I expect that some day I could use another one.
Forget pulling rope and string in a conduit. Do it like the pros do. Use an electrician's snake. It does 100x better job.

Been an electrician for 30 years and a vacuum with a mouse IS how the pros do it in long runs of pvc, way faster than a fishtape.

 

[Gary S]

I never tried a vacuum. I tried ropes and string with poor success. My fish tape makes the job easy, so I haven't looked for anything else.

 

[Jsf721]

I would pull some line w/power for security cameras. Wrestling with this after the fact now in my own home.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Forget pulling rope and string in a conduit. Do it like the pros do. Use an electrician's snake. It does 100x better job.

While you are correct, this is impossible with a 280' trench.

 

[inphx]

Thanks for the great info, its a small expense for bigger and dual spares for the extra options it offers.

I think im a caveman cuz last time i did this i threaded wire as i added each segment.

Lots of valuable information in this forum. Thanks

 

[CNGsaves]

Curious about what depth you plan on putting each conduit??

Thus, is large 2 1/2" or 3" for electrical going the deepest (say 3 ft or more) and then smaller 2 conduit runs (ie maybe 2" or 1 1/2") for others (CATV/security/etc . . . plus Telco/Internet/etc) at maybe 2 ft depth??

For OP particular install, will there also be a separate trench for natural gas service?? That trench going to be dedicated to NG only, or you putting a spare conduit in that trench as well??

 

[mrpowderkeg]

A good shop vac on one end, and a plastic shopping bag on the other with a light but strong string attached, quick and easy

 

[royalton10]

I have done the shop vac and string, 125 feet of conduit. It works great, pretty slick!!

 

[Aceman]

I never tried a vacuum. I tried ropes and string with poor success. My fish tape makes the job easy, so I haven't looked for anything else.

A walmart sack with a string tied on the handles will FLY down a 2" pipe using a plain old shop vac.

 

[Norcal]

Be sure to check PoCo requirements, here in PG&E territory they use EUSERC requirements & for a 100A or 200A UG service 3" conduit is required, they are not the only ones w/ a crazy requirement like that.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Be sure to check PoCo requirements, here in PG&E territory they use EUSERC requirements & for a 100A or 200A UG service 3" conduit is required, they are not the only ones w/ a crazy requirement like that.

That's just idiotic!
Do you use special meter pans and panels with 3" KO's?

 

[Speedy Petey]

I have done the shop vac and string, 125 feet of conduit. It works great, pretty slick!!

If you're not careless assembling your pipe it works just as good for 1000'.

 

[inphx]

I located what the utility company "SRP" requires:

Seems like for 3 phase one 2 1/2" for 200 amps. Or a 4" for 400amps.

 

[Norcal]

That's just idiotic!
Do you use special meter pans and panels with 3" KO's?

The panels take a 3" conduit just fine but IMO 2" for 100 or 200A services was just fine.

 

[PatJ800]

When I first moved in to my place I dug all my trenches all at once and put conduits and water lines to everywhere I was planning to build and everywhere I thought I might possibly build someday. I have several acres with a handful of outbuildings and several concrete pads with water hydrants for stock tanks and electrical for stock tank heaters. I used PVC conduit and black poly water line.

In the many many years since, I have never personally had any problems with my black poly, but the place I work has 34 locations and at many of the sites we have had problems with black poly buried in the past 10-40 years. It doesn't seem to matter if the poly is used for intermittent pressure for irrigation or constant pressure like a yard hydrant.

All the issues we have had at work have made me very paranoid about my black poly. With my luck I will start to have issues when I am just getting too old to swing a shovel anymore. If I could go back in time and do it over again I would use SCH 40 PVC.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I located what the utility company "SRP" requires:

Seems like for 3 phase one 2 1/2" for 200 amps. Or a 4" for 400amps.

Thats because it's a 4-wire service!

 

[VHF]

Once you figure out what you need, throw in one more empty smaller conduit (say 1") for future communications need (future CAT6, coax, or fiber.)