New member / Craftsman 4 ton floor jack help needed

[brianstrange]

Hello, newbie here, with another floor jack question / issue.


I found this site thru Hiball's post on overseas jack repair, and I'm hoping someone can help.

I have a Craftsman model 9-50167 4 ton floor jack (same as Torin "Big Red" model T84004.) I purchased the rebuild kit from them, and in the process of rebuilding it, I'm now questioning if I lost something. There are four screws on the top of the unit.
1) "Do not adjust"
2) Large phillips head
3&4) similar adjustment ports of some sort. - this is where my question leeds to.

In the pictures, you can see that one of these has a spring with a small ball at the end, and the other just has a ball (no spring to hold the ball tight)

Although I was careful and swear that I didn't lose anything, I was hoping someone with experience could offer some knowledge on this jack, and tell me if this is correct.

NOTE: This is a fast lift with a second small cylinder.
The first & second pic match screws to ports.


Thank you,
Brian

 

[Lightfoot]

paging Mr. Hiball to the house phone.

 

[Hiball]

I believe your missing some Components.. Its Not always Necessary for a Valve to have a Spring/Weight. I cant seem to find a breakdown for that Model, Alot of these jacks share the same/similar Hydraulic system. HERE Is a Shinn Fu model that is similar to your jack, Generally the "Craftsman" Models are produced by Shinn Fu but based off only looking Torin T84004 it does appear different frame wise, Just not Sure how much difference there is in the Hydraulic unit. Have you tried contacting Torin and requesting a Exploded View Diagram? I cant seem to find one after some simple googling.

This is why its best to keep old parts seperate from New and pay attention (write it down/Take a picture) of the Valve Makeup when you dissasemble, Thus its as simple as matching OLD to NEW. Especially when your not doing it on a Daily Basis.. Check that Breakdown and compare it to what you have.

 

[brianstrange]

I believe your missing some Components.. Its Not always Necessary for a Valve to have a Spring/Weight. I cant seem to find a breakdown for that Model, Alot of these jacks share the same/similar Hydraulic system. HERE Is a Shinn Fu model that is similar to your jack, Generally the "Craftsman" Models are produced by Shinn Fu.

This is why its best to keep old parts seperate from New and pay attention (write it down/Take a picture) of the Valve Makeup when you dissasemble, Thus its as simple as matching OLD to NEW. Especially when your not doing it on a Daily Basis.. Check that Breakdown and compare it to what you have.

Salute to thy mighty Highball! That diagram is my pump! Also, I remembered a ball bearing appearing, and I thought it was from the new seal kit. It was the deeper one that came out after I thought the port was clear.

Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!!!!!!!

 

[brianstrange]

Do those valves get hand tightened all the way down? I did count the "do not adjust" at two turns back. The others, well...... you know...

 

[Hiball]

Do those valves get hand tightened all the way down? I did count the "do not adjust" at two turns back. The others, well...... you know...

The 3rd one (left to Right) or the 1st one to the Right of the Release that you pictured gets tightened down all the way i believe (Maybe a better picture of inside the Valve, Almost looks like there is only 1 seat), The Next one (W/spring) has some Adjustment to it, as it allows the Quick Lift system to operate correctly, By setting the Opening Pressure and bypassing.

 

[brianstrange]

Oh well, I did something wrong..... The jack will lift and drop as I move the handle..... ugh... I love fixing things, but sometimes you just have to flush the toilet, and give up.

 

[Hiball]

Oh well, I did something wrong..... The jack will lift and drop as I move the handle..... ugh... I love fixing things, but sometimes you just have to flush the toilet, and give up.

Dont Give up Yet.. How many Balls did you put in that 1st hole to the Right of the Release? A Picture of that Valve?

 

[brianstrange]

Dont Give up Yet.. How many Balls did you put in that 1st hole to the Right of the Release? A Picture of that Valve?

The release, meaning the twist to release/drop the jack? The one to it's right had one tiny ball bearing with a nose piece under a spring, held by one of the screws

 

[brianstrange]

After looking at that pump, it is different, but similar

 

[Hiball]

The release, meaning the twist to release/drop the jack? The one to it's right had one tiny ball bearing with a nose piece under a spring, held by one of the screws

And the one Directly to its Left? You only showed 1 ball in the Picture.

 

[brianstrange]

And the one Directly to its Left? You only showed 1 ball in the Picture.

There are two to the right. 1st to the right has two ball bearings (smaller in first, larger one second), second to the right has one ball bearing, a nose piece and a spring

 

[Hiball]

How much did you tighten that last one down after reassembling it? Did you get into any of the other valves?

Is the quick lift portion working? If not tighten that last valve down till it functions.

 

[brianstrange]

How much did you tighten that last one down after reassembling it? Did you get into any of the other valves?

I did the pressure, inspected the philips head assy, new bearing in the release, and these two we last, and where the confusion began. I also replaced the ball bearing in the main cylinder. I wish I just did the u cup and orings.....

 

[brianstrange]

Is the quick lift portion working? If not tighten that last valve down till it functions.

It's working fine

 

[Hiball]

Ok.. What exactly is the jack doing? Did you make sure you bled the system after doing all this work?

Proper oil level, Handle in the release position, pump 6-8 times to flush the valve system-- try the jack.

 

[brianstrange]

Ok.. What exactly is the jack doing? Did you make sure you bled the system after doing all this work?

Proper oil level, Handle in the release position, pump 6-8 times to flush the valve system-- try the jack.

That's what I did. The jack lifts, but goes down when you lift the pump back up

 

[Hiball]

That's what I did. The jack lifts, but goes down when you lift the pump back up

So what are the symptoms again? You say the lift arm is lifting then falling? That indicates a possible issue with the working valve or release. Double check those components.

 

[Hiball]

You might be best served contacting torin and seeing if you can get a exploded view diagram for that Torin T84004. I can't tell you with 100% if the hydraulic system is shared with the shinn fu version. I very seldom rebuild these jacks with exception of ones I pick up Second hand, and when I do.. I keep tabs of everything that comes out, this way I can match up old with new etc..

Maybe Edgar has a exploded view diagram of this torin model? I couldn't find one, outside of finding a couple threads with people having the same problem with finding a breakdown. I'm surprised torin didn't give you one with your kit..

 

[brianstrange]

I'm surprised torin didn't give you one with your kit..

They claim they don't have an exploded view.

 

[Hiball]

They claim they don't have an exploded view.

Hmm.. Well wait and see if Edgar has a comparable model that shows the individual pieces. Worst case scenario, Ill need some pictures of how you have every valve made up. I can recognize any problems by looking at the parts, just not fluid on what the valve makeup is from left to right. I'm sure your problem is something simple, and it sounds like the working valve or release is the problem, based off the handle/lift arm feedback.

 

[EDGAR]

Brianstrange

Whats under the phillips screw? Are there two balls under it? One of the valves ports needs to have two balls and each ball has its own seat. These are the one-way valve balls. More below.

I believe that you either may have changed the valves from position, or are missing a ball somewhere ( maybe under the phillips screw). The one-way valve uses two balls and needs to have two seats, as shown in the first picture below (it is a deep hole).

The up and down movement of the lift arm, happening at the same time you lower and lift the handle, is because either the top big ball is missing or the wrong size. This top valve ball is a one-way ball and it closes against its seat the moment you stop pumping down the handle, retaining the oil behind the ram. Without the ball, or a wrong size ball, the oil returns back to the pump piston and the arm goes down. The smaller ball below this big ball is the one that allows oil to come from the oil tank to the pump piston cylinder when you lift the handle. When you push down on the handle, this small ball closes against it seat and the oil then goes behind the rear of the ram to lift the load. So the problem here is with the top ball of the one way valves.

If the balls were changed from their original position, the ball shown in the second photo could be the bottom ball, if this were actually the one-way valves ( or working valves), which is smaller than the top ball and a top ball would be missing. The top ball should measure around 5/16". That is assuming that there are not two balls under the phillips screw. If there are two balls under the phillips screw, then these two balls under the phillips screw are the one-way valves. See if there are two seats under the phillips screw, if so, there should be two balls; maybe one is missing?. If there are two balls under the phillips screw, then the position of the balls, and number, as shown in the second picture, should be correct ( if you are 100% sure that is the original position of the balls in the different ports). It is difficult to know without seeing every port in the pump and the seats each one has.

So, first look under the phillips screw and see if there are two balls there or two seats in case a ball is missing. Also check if the top port shown in the last pictures you posted, has two seats ( the deeper hole) or only one.

As for parts breakdown, I have yet to see a single one from Torin.