Garage Size Denied, Time for Option "B"

[Gentle_Ben]

So I've been planning to build a detached garage in my backyard for the past year or so. My ideal size was 32ft wide by 26ft deep, 832sf.

This size was over the 700sf allowed in my city without getting a variance. I jumped through all the hoops, and paid all the various fees to apply for my variance for an additional 132sf but unfortunately it was shot down by city council with a 6:1 vote with the one vote in favor being from the mayor.

Anyways, this is my revised design and I am just looking for some input regarding it.

Main area is 24ft wide by 26ft long. Side area with the workbench is 4ft wide and 19 ft long.

Its rare that both the truck and boat would be in there at the same time, but I just wanted to make sure they can both fit if I need them too.

We are planning to go with an 11ft stud height (12ft is pictured in the sketch), with two 10x10 doors. Reason for the 10ft height is to be able to clear my wake tower on my boat which is a real pain to lower, and I just want to be able to clear whatever I want to put in the garage without issue in the future.

The garage will basically be storage for my boat during spring/fall (winter it goes into storage elsewhere), winter parking for my truck, and a place to work on various toys (snowmobiles, ATV's, motorcycles). The rest of the time it will serve duty as a man cave, which is why there is a TV built into the cabinets, and a beer fridge and bar sink.

If anyone has any better suggestions for how to utilize 700sf, feel free to share!

 

[koditten]

Put in attic trusses. Upstairs doesn't count.

I played the exact same game with same results. Just stay within the height restrictions. They have a strange way of figuring max height. It should be taller than you think.

Later
KO

 

[Gentle_Ben]

Put in attic trusses. Upstairs doesn't count.

I played the exact same game with same results. Just stay within the height restrictions. They have a strange way of figuring max height. It should be taller than you think.

Later
KO

I am limited to a maximum height of 15' at the midpoint of roofline. Thats why we lowered the stud height to 11' as it allows us to have a bit more room in the attic and a slightly taller roof. I really want to be able to utilize that attic space for storage.

 

[premis]

Pack your has and move to the country! Damn government!

Is there any rule against TWO 700 sq ft garages?

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

talk to the mayor. Ask him if there is a chance you can propose a change in the zoning rules to allow larger detached garages. I was stuck with only 600sf. Worked with my town supervisor and the town board and they increased it to 1,000! Very few municipalities like to give variances. I found out its easier to change the zoning limits than to get a variance! Good luck!

 

[Gentle_Ben]

talk to the mayor. Ask him if there is a chance you can propose a change in the zoning rules to allow larger detached garages. I was stuck with only 600sf. Worked with my town supervisor and the town board and they increased it to 1,000! Very few municipalities like to give variances. I found out its easier to change the zoning limits than to get a variance! Good luck!

Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately there is a city councilor who lives in my neighborhood, and she was dead set against this garage being built from the beginning.

Fortunately they can't stop me from building the garage since its allowed as long as my yard meets the criteria (which it does) but there is virtually no chance of them changing zoning laws for an accessory building at this point in time.

The thing that pissed me off the most was they based their grounds for refusal on my variance on not wanting "traffic" to my backyard. I wasn't allowed a rebuttal to this argument, but they didn't seem to know their own rules which state that I can build a garage no matter what, I just wanted it a little bit bigger.

 

[ChargedUp!]

The 10x10 doors will be nice. I just did mine in 10x10 and 18x10. I love them!

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Remember all of this at election time. Stupid decision and stupid positions by politicians are cured at the next election. Time for a Facebook page.

 

[Gentle_Ben]

The 10x10 doors will be nice. I just did mine in 10x10 and 18x10. I love them!

Do you have a picture of them installed? I'd be interested to see them!

 

[Gentle_Ben]

Remember all of this at election time. Stupid decision and stupid positions by politicians are cured at the next election. Time for a Facebook page.

I agree, but man I tell you the politics in this town are crazy. There is one religious organization that is very dominate in the community, and 4 of the 6 council members are a part of it. Pretty hard to vote anyone out with that kind of support, but there is a few people not happy with her in particular so we will see what we can do.

 

[GMCAMARO]

This is why we moved. You will find, you will want more space. Maybe more cars etc.

Why stay?

 

[wedge40]

I wish you luck, but I'm guessing you'll have to settle on you can build on YOUR property. I waited 10 years before I even started to think about purchasing a home and land. I'm out in the country. It doesn't mean I dont have restrictions, but I'm pretty much free to build what I want on MY land.

Wedge

 

[ezzzzzzz]

Can you attach it to the house??? Even a breezeway makes it part of the main structure. That's what I had to do to get around the idiots in zoning. My original plan was 24x36 detached out back. They came up with every convoluted reason I couldn't do that due to 'new' setbacks. I turned it sideways, downsized to 22x36 due to limited yard width and attached with an enclosed foyer (claimed the 8x15 breezeway was a carport). After careful measurements and stretching lots of cord I finally had the garage laid out. the inspector showed up, never looked at the lines and said okay. It's like dealing with 3 different entities at city hall. None talk to each other. That said, the house is only 16.5' tall. The garage is 25' at peak! It still isn't big enough with over 100sqft of space.

 

[Cryptic1911]

^ I agree, try to attach it to the house somehow, even if it's just temporary until it's done, and then remove the breezeway or whatever. I don't think our garage would have been passed if it wasn't attached to the house

 

[BoostAddiction]

So I've been planning to build a detached garage in my backyard for the past year or so. My ideal size was 32ft wide by 26ft deep, 832sf.

This size was over the 700sf allowed in my city without getting a variance. I jumped through all the hoops, and paid all the various fees to apply for my variance for an additional 132sf but unfortunately it was shot down by city council with a 6:1 vote with the one vote in favor being from the mayor.

Anyways, this is my revised design and I am just looking for some input regarding it.

I like that design a lot. Cabinet design looks good, and makes good use of the "extra" space you have after the usual parking slots.

 

[Gentle_Ben]

This is why we moved. You will find, you will want more space. Maybe more cars etc.

Why stay?

We just bought the house a year ago. It was too good of a price to pass up, and there are a lot of benefits. Great neighborhood, walking path is one lot over, two huge parks with 3 minutes walk, largest lot in the entire development, and I am only a 15 minute walk from where I work.

As for the suggestions of attaching it to the house. We currently have a 338sf single attached garage on the house. We looked into expanding it, but it just isn't feasible and would block access to the backyard with vehicles.

Once the garage is built in the backyard we may look at extending our roof to create a car port at the end of the current garage.

Overall we will have 1038sf of heated and insulated garage space, which I think is pretty decent. I have a friend who lives 15 minutes away that has a big yard and a large shop and storage sheds if I need additional storage space.

 

[Gentle_Ben]

This is how the garage would sit in relation to the house. My original 32x26 garage design is pictured.

 

[Gentle_Ben]

I like that design a lot. Cabinet design looks good, and makes good use of the "extra" space you have after the usual parking slots.

Thank you very much, I've spent more time than my wife would like going over different design ideas. She seemed to like this one too though!

 

[laser3kw]

did they give you a reason why the turned you down?
Your design above shows the structure to close to the lot lines ( overhangs are included in those figure -if your layout is true to scale), and possible encroachemnt of the drive to the adjacent property. Also is there a minumum distance the accessory build has to be from the main structure? If you want to try again, note any similar properties in the area with similar buildings. Zoning boards can be swayed if your presentation is complete. Don't just walk in and say " I need a bigger building and here is a hand drawn sketch ( all though it looks like you do a good job modeling). They want to here how you plan on use it (cold stoarage), how it fits on your property (ample room to lot lines), how it will affect other properties , if it is within the scope of what is on other properties (it's just like my other nieghbors), and how not having this is an negative to you life.
Don't give up - try again.

 

[StupidSheet]

As for the suggestions of attaching it to the house. We currently have a 338sf single attached garage on the house. We looked into expanding it, but it just isn't feasible and would block access to the backyard with vehicles.
.

So I can't help you with the feasible part because I don't know what's involved in making the attached bigger. But you mention you wouldn't hace access to the back yard. Why don't you put an overhead door at the back as well and then you still have access to it. From the last pic I would add a bay turning your single into a double and then I would make the added bay deep enough to have another vehicle parked there. Heck you could leave your boat hooked up to your truck if you wanted. Then I would have an overhead door at back for access to your yard. It would leave you more room in your yard and still suit your needs.

Like I said I'm not sure if that would be feasible enough for you without seeing the current setup but IMO it would be cheaper or at least the same as what a detached would cost. Maybe then you could still put up a small shed to get some of the **** out of the man cave.

I do like your current layout plan though. Looks like it will be very workable.

BTW what program are you using to draw those up? I would love to get my hands on something like that to design mine.

 

[Gentle_Ben]

did they give you a reason why the turned you down?
Your design above shows the structure to close to the lot lines ( overhangs are included in those figure -if your layout is true to scale), and possible encroachemnt of the drive to the adjacent property. Also is there a minumum distance the accessory build has to be from the main structure?.

Its all modeled to scale.

The accessory building may be 2 ft from the property line, while the overhangs are allowed to be 1ft away from the property line. I paid for a survey of my lot, and I also paid for a building location certficate. I submitted all of this when I applied for my variation and it was cleared by the building permit people ahead of time, so I wasn't doing anything that wasn't allowed, except for being beyond the size restriction allowed.

I went to city council and presented my case in a professional manner, but it seems as though council had their minds made up before I got there. Each councilor gave their reason for voting no. One was concerned about traffic to my backyard. The others were concerned it looked out of place since no one else had a garage in their backyard. And one councilor voted no b/c he didn't think it was necessary for me to have a garage of that size.

Some of my neighbors showed up to the meeting b/c they all got letters saying what I was doing from the city. None of them objected to my plans at all, and just wanted clarification as to what I was doing.

The variation application process costs $300, and if you get denied you have to wait an entire year to apply again. My options now are to build within the specs I am allowed, or build what I wanted too anyways and pay the fine. I've decided to just work within the criteria they've laid out.

 

[Gentle_Ben]

So I can't help you with the feasible part because I don't know what's involved in making the attached bigger. But you mention you wouldn't hace access to the back yard. Why don't you put an overhead door at the back as well and then you still have access to it. From the last pic I would add a bay turning your single into a double and then I would make the added bay deep enough to have another vehicle parked there. Heck you could leave your boat hooked up to your truck if you wanted. Then I would have an overhead door at back for access to your yard. It would leave you more room in your yard and still suit your needs.

Like I said I'm not sure if that would be feasible enough for you without seeing the current setup but IMO it would be cheaper or at least the same as what a detached would cost. Maybe then you could still put up a small shed to get some of the **** out of the man cave.

I do like your current layout plan though. Looks like it will be very workable.

BTW what program are you using to draw those up? I would love to get my hands on something like that to design mine.

The reason we can't expand the current attached garage is my contractor doesn't feel we could anchor the concrete pads together well enough to be 100% secure. There is a little drainage ditch that runs from the back of the house around the attached garage as well, so this poses other problems too.

With the garage in the backyard, we were just planning on putting the driveway on top of a culvert system in place of the ditch.

Also regarding putting a second overhead door on the back of the garage, I could do this, but it wouldn't solve the problem, my wakeboarding boat is too tall to fit through the 8ft door thats on the front of the garage.

Thanks for the compliments on the current layout, I am 99% sure this is what I am doing to go with, the more I look at it, the more I like it. Thanks for the feedback on it.

The program I used is called Google Sketchup, its free to download, and is pretty intuitive to learn. There is lots of online help for it as well.

 

[38Chevy454]

Get it built like you have it, nice to have the door under cover. I also think the layout of cabinets is about best you can do given the circumstances.

Later add on a big lean-to or carport cover on the left side. Then enclose it except at the front.

 

[StupidSheet]

Just noticed you are in Manitoba. I think you just added that because I looked before, lol. I'm actually in Manitoba as well. Are you in Wpg? I used to live there but just moved out near Lorette 6 years ago.

 

[MJB24]

After you walk into the little door. How far forward is the workbench? I had a detached that was the worst walking in and out carrying anything and either banging into it or having to walk in and then a sharp turn if carrying something. Maybe you could angle the end of workbench so it doesn't have a corner but a more ramped corner.

Obviously you are not in Minnesota if you can have running water in a detached garage. It sure would be nice to be able to do that here without worrying about freezing everything.

 

[Kevin54]

Is there any chance that you can go larger if it is attached to the house? I know that quite a few have beat the system by having an attached breezway. One member, and as usual I can't remember who it was, beat the system by having an attached breezway, but the thing was the attached roof was over a window on the house and not a door, but it met the criteria.

 

[the_saint]

Sorry to hear

Didn't realize that it would so overwhelming against your plans. I can't stand the city of Winnipeg Council as they make no sense.

 

[jpinca]

An option may be to just build it like you want if you think the inspector won't notice. An extra foot here or there isn't likely to be noticed and your inspector may not pull a tape. Mine showed up at the form inspection and asked "how much bigger is it from the plans?" He had just come from a job that was 30 feet longer than plan. Mine was 3' over but we didn't admit it, just because I didn't want to pay the architect/engineer more money to change the plans and resubmit, etc, etc.

 

[ChargedUp!]

Here's the pic of an 18x10 and a 10x10 on our new house. They're awesome!

 

[laser3kw]

The accessory building my be 2 ft from the property line, while the overhangs are allowed to be 1ft away from the property line

That's it? around here you have to be 10 feet from a side lot line and 10 from a rear lot line.
I guess the next best thing is to see about "adding on" to your house (then convert it to garage space)

 

[StupidSheet]

That's it? around here you have to be 10 feet from a side lot line and 10 from a rear lot line.
I guess the next best thing is to see about "adding on" to your house (then convert it to garage space)

Where I am it's 25' from the property line which makes absolutely no sense as I'm on a 2 acre lot. I have to apply for a variance like Gentle Ben so I'm hoping I don't run into the same problem.

 

[VWPORSCHEGT3]

I went to city council and presented my case in a professional manner, but it seems as though council had their minds made up before I got there. Each councilor gave their reason for voting no. One was concerned about traffic to my backyard.

I dont see how its his damn problem...

The others were concerned it looked out of place since no one else had a garage in their backyard.

so, let me get this straight since no one else has one , you can't have one? bulltripe....

And one councilor voted no b/c he didn't think it was necessary for me to have a garage of that size.

ok lets make sure this guy drives a smart car the rest of his life, since he wants to determine what is ok for people to do on their own property....

Some of my neighbors showed up to the meeting b/c they all got letters saying what I was doing from the city. None of them objected to my plans at all, and just wanted clarification as to what I was doing.

Sounds like you have good neighbors

 

[sledzz]

When I lived in town the city said I could have two buildings. I already had a 24 x22 and almost built another one but moved instead. They had to be separated by 2 foot and I could have built an enclosed walkway between them and was going to use my old one for storage and junk and the new one for my shop.

 

[Gentle_Ben]

Get it built like you have it, nice to have the door under cover. I also think the layout of cabinets is about best you can do given the circumstances.

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.

 

[Gentle_Ben]

Just noticed you are in Manitoba. I think you just added that because I looked before, lol. I'm actually in Manitoba as well. Are you in Wpg? I used to live there but just moved out near Lorette 6 years ago.

I am currently living in Steinbach, so about 20 minutes from Lorette.

 

[Gentle_Ben]

After you walk into the little door. How far forward is the workbench? I had a detached that was the worst walking in and out carrying anything and either banging into it or having to walk in and then a sharp turn if carrying something. Maybe you could angle the end of workbench so it doesn't have a corner but a more ramped corner.

Obviously you are not in Minnesota if you can have running water in a detached garage. It sure would be nice to be able to do that here without worrying about freezing everything.

I think I allowed for about 4ft in my drawing, but my contractor is a pretty practical guy so he will change that to whatever he thinks is proper for an entranceway. Thanks for pointing that out though, its little stuff like this I need to be thinking of!

I am not in Minnesota, but just north of Minnesota over the border in Manitoba.

The contractor says a sink is doable, but might be a summer only feature. We are going to look at our options for that. My parents had running water in their garage year round which this same contractor also built.

 

[Gentle_Ben]

Here's the pic of an 18x10 and a 10x10 on our new house. They're awesome!

Thanks for sharing, I was having a hard time picturing what they would look like in a residential situation. They look awesome!

 

[plym49]

How does the town define the area of the garage? Is the 700 sq ft the area of the foundation? If it is, perhaps you can build kickouts to cantilever the workbench and storage cabinets to the outside. They would be off the ground, so presumably they would not count against the 700 sq ft.

 

[Gentle_Ben]

How does the town define the area of the garage? Is the 700 sq ft the area of the foundation? If it is, perhaps you can build kickouts to cantilever the workbench and storage cabinets to the outside. They would be off the ground, so presumably they would not count against the 700 sq ft.

I'll have to ask about this. Thanks for the idea.

 

[R6 Racer]

I would try again to figure out the addition idea over the detached idea. You could put a second bay beside the existing & then ad on a deep double behind that. You could end up with 4 full bays with work space behind them along the back wall. It would give you way more garage & with your roof lines you would have a way larger storage space above!
I like the idea of being able to have the boat hooked up in the garage when you want it.

Steve