Glow-in-the-dark flake distribution advice needed!

[munkey]

Hey guys, here's my rather bizarre question: I am doing a small garage with a solvent-based epoxy + moisture cure urethane topcoat. I have about 5 pounds of 1/4" flakes to spread over my roughly 225 square foot garage (about 1lb each of 5 different colors.)

The catch is that 1lb of flakes is of the "glow in the dark" variety. The part that I am having trouble with conceptually is how to prioritize the visibility of these particular flakes, as they are more expensive and I would like to maximize the nighttime effect. In other words, I'm trying to avoid having them obscured by other chips, but also trying to avoid losing 20% of them to adhesion failure when I scrape prior to clearcoating. I'm not sure which is the bigger threat. Here are my options, as I see them...

I could spread the glow in the dark flakes FIRST, thus ensuring that a minimal number of them will be rejected -- there will be no other flakes yet on the ground to "block" them.

I could spread them LAST, thus ensuring that if there is overlap, they are the topmost chip.

I could pulverize them (or half of them) into smaller flakes, say 1/16", which would hypothetically increase the available surface area to these flakes since they would then fit into smaller gaps.

I could spread all other flakes as normal and then broadcast the glow in the dark ones into the first urethane topcoat, scrape, and then seal with an additional topcoat (which I will be doing anyways.) But I haven't really heard of people doing this.

Any advice on the best approach? Am I overthinking this? Does it not matter? Has anybody done glow in the dark, and can you comment on using them in 1/4" vs. 1/16" as far as effect goes?

This board has been very valuable to me; I've got a number of pictures to share with all of you once it's done. All replies appreciated!!

 

[AlphaGarage]

I have no experience with these, but with that in mind... 5 lbs over 225 ft2 is a pretty light density, so I think that overlapping isn't too much of a concern, likewise with that density most of the flakes will land flat, so that's not a large concern either.

As far as size, these glow in the dark things (unless we're talking tritium) aren't all that bright, too small and they could be hard to see, so before making a lot of small pieces I'd filter out some of the already small pieces, set them on the floor next to the predominant "normal" larger pieces, turn out the lights, and see which size works best. The results could be illuminating.

That brings us to the layered look. We had a client who designed a floor coating system with 6 or so layers, with different flakes on the different layers. He was looking to achieve a 3D look, adding depth to the finish. But he had several layers to play with, and those layers were thicker epoxy layers. I don't know if you'll get enough separation with just 2 layers to achieve any noticeable effect. But then again if you're applying 2 clear coats anyway it's no big deal to broadcast the glowers just on the first layer of clear, and doing so will ensure that they aren't covered by the pedestrian flakes, and they'll be more likely to lay flat, and they'll have less coating over them to absorb/block/deflect their glowing personality; seems like potential upsides with no big downsides, so why not?

Interested to hear other thoughts and see pictures of the results. I may have to start carrying them!

 

[munkey]

Thanks for the reply! I'm definitely not expecting miracles with the illumination. I just figured it would be fun since most of the time they will just be normal "off-white" chips that don't really clash with the other colors, so why not? I will definitely do more tests as you suggest, but I've found it can be difficult to get a true appreciation for the overall effect just by looking at a small square. I guess I have to be careful to use roughly the same weight of chips for each sample or else the test density wouldn't properly reflect the two actual options.

he had several layers to play with, and those layers were thicker epoxy layers. I don't know if you'll get enough separation with just 2 layers to achieve any noticeable effect. But then again if you're applying 2 clear coats anyway it's no big deal to broadcast the glowers just on the first layer of clear

But in my case the clear coats are not epoxy, they are moisture cure urethane which goes on very thin. I am hesitant to do this without knowing that I won't be sacrificing flake adhesion by not broadcasting into the much thicker epoxy layer. Won't the flakes to be more vulnerable if they are embedded above the epoxy in a urethane layer that's only a few mils thick, as compared to in the epoxy with 2 full topcoats above them?

I realize this is all massively trivial in the grand scheme of things, but after dozens of hours of prep this is my chance to have a little fun and I want to get it right!

 

[tncatadjuster]

I have done the ceiling with small dots of glow in the dark paint. You can't see it in the daylight, but they come out at night, just like stars.

Unless they are the last broadcast I would be afraid they would be covered up by the other flakes.

After doing the ceiling my wife commented how nice they were, so I did the baseboard in the hallway, just a dot about every foot, at night it looks like a landing field at the airport. We both like it.

Keep us posted, this is interesting.

 

[Kevin54]

I have done the ceiling with small dots of glow in the dark paint. You can't see it in the daylight, but they come out at night, just like stars.

Unless they are the last broadcast I would be afraid they would be covered up by the other flakes.

After doing the ceiling my wife commented how nice they were, so I did the baseboard in the hallway, just a dot about every foot, at night it looks like a landing field at the airport. We both like it.

Keep us posted, this is interesting.

I'd like to see some pics of that.

 

[AlphaGarage]

But in my case the clear coats are not epoxy, they are moisture cure urethane which goes on very thin. I am hesitant to do this without knowing that I won't be sacrificing flake adhesion by not broadcasting into the much thicker epoxy layer. Won't the flakes to be more vulnerable if they are embedded above the epoxy in a urethane layer that's only a few mils thick, as compared to in the epoxy with 2 full topcoats above them?

They probably will be a bit more vulnerable, but maybe not enough to worry about. Even when broadcast onto a thicker epoxy layer a lot of flakes don't embed themselves and sink in below grade, a lot of flakes land and are positioned above grade, with their point of adhesion being just the underside of the flake, they could be sitting on 2 mil of coating, or 200 mils, the adhesion is the same.

Also, there's no rule that says you must broadcast the glowers into just one layer, all or nothing. You can disperse 50% of them onto the epoxy layer, and the remaining half onto the first clear coat. That way at least some have max security, and the others max exposure benefits.

I realize this is all massively trivial in the grand scheme of things, but after dozens of hours of prep this is my chance to have a little fun and I want to get it right!

It's through similar whimsical trivial pursuits that many of mankind's greatest discoveries and advances have come about. Let's not forget that Alexander Graham Bell developed the telephone because he wanted to punk the neighborhood tobacconist with the classic "Do you have Prince Albert in a can?" prank; and history tells us the human genome DNA sequencing program was originally conceived by a group of MIT undergrad fraternity brothers as an elaborate, over the top, geeky, science fair project meant to impress some sorority coeds at Cambridge.

 

[larry_g]

May I suggest that if you have the cabinets, benchs and other junk out of the area that you take care NOT to broadcast the glow chips where they will be soon covered by stuff. In addition have you considered doing some design work where the glow chips will outline some feature or path through the area.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[munkey]

Thanks to all replies. I'm gonna give it a go later this evening with the final basecoat.

Also, there's no rule that says you must broadcast the glowers into just one layer, all or nothing. You can disperse 50% of them onto the epoxy layer, and the remaining half onto the first clear coat. That way at least some have max security, and the others max exposure benefits.

Good points, I might try something like that.

May I suggest that if you have the cabinets, benchs and other junk out of the area that you take care NOT to broadcast the glow chips where they will be soon covered by stuff. In addition have you considered doing some design work where the glow chips will outline some feature or path through the area.

Heh, you dramatically overestimate the quality of this garage. It's got some built in shelves and room for a car, and sloppily applied paint peeling off the wooden framing. Until last week, it also had a disgustingly pitted floor whom the previous homeowners patched with either MULCH or asphalt and then covered with a thin layer of concrete -- it was great fun walking around with a hammer hitting all the soft/wet spots and watching them shatter to reveal huge pits below. This project has been comical in the sense that the quality of floor I'm applying is ridiculous compared to the rest of the garage... but we all know how cool a nice garage floor is!

 

[rugerlady]

I think you may be overthinking this a bit. You don't have enough flake to be really heavy. I have used the glow-in-the dark flake on a job that I had done. I just applied it like any other blend. I would not recommend grinding the flake smaller, it will not show up as well.

 

[munkey]

Ok thanks! I did half of them in the topcoat, and I'll do the other half tonight in the clearcoat. I'll take your advice to not grind them. Pics when it's all done (although I doubt I'll get any meaningful "glow in the dark" pics.)

 

[JohnJL]

How about those pics? How did it come out?

 

[munkey]

Ok, I'll post the pics in a new thread, but I haven't even attempted to get any shots of the glow-in-the-dark flakes. I did end up doing an extra heavy sprinkle along the garage door threshold line, and another along the back edges of the garage. That worked well: you can definitely see the perimeter fairly strongly with no light.

Overall though, I'm glad I used them: they are kind of cool when it's dark, and they blend in fine during the daytime so the only drawback is the cost. I actually wish I had used a little bit more. My concerns about maximizing their exposure were probably unwarranted; it would indeed take a pretty heavy broadcast before that becomes a significant issue.

 

[JohnJL]

 

[JohnJL]

saw the new thread, well done...http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73603

 

[rwhite692]

You are way, WAY over-thinking this...There should be no need to worry about it...If you simply mix the glow-chips in with all the rest of your colored chips, as long as you mix all of the chips together well, the glow-chips will be as evenly distributed when you broadcast them, as any other color chip in the mix would be....

in fact, this is really the ONLY way to do it that would guarantee that the glow-chips are evenly distributed vs. the solid colors.

 

[jasonvt]

it seems not many places carry the glow in the dark chips anymore. one site mentioned it was because of EPA regs. Anyone know the best/cheapest place to order them? And are they safe or whats the deal with the EPA regs?

 

[Garage Flooring]

it seems not many places carry the glow in the dark chips anymore. one site mentioned it was because of EPA regs. Anyone know the best/cheapest place to order them? And are they safe or whats the deal with the EPA regs?

We have sourced some environmentally friendly glow in the dark chips that are MUCH brighter than the competition. I got them up on amazon but have not had a chance to get them up on our main site yet. I will do that tomorrow.

Glow in the dark chips on Amazon

I will update the URL for the main site tomorrow

 

[jasonvt]

is that price per pound??

 

[Garage Flooring]

Yes. I looked at several brands of product, this is the only one that actually does what it is supposed to. So frustrating. There is also a bunch of 'mixed' product on the market where only a portion of the chips glow.

 

[jasonvt]

Man, theyre pricey. Any GJ discounts available?
Do you know what 1 lb over 630sf would look like? 2lbs? 3lbs?
Theyll be mixed in with a black/white/gray/maybe red mix of 15 lbs over 630sf.

 

[Garage Flooring]

GJ Discounts... ALWAYS. Just call me or PM me. It really depends on the look you are going for and which flakes you buy. I personally would go with equal amounts of the glow in the dark to the others if I was doing a random broadcast over the whole floor. A lot of people use them to highlight certain areas only.

 

[Garage Flooring]

OK, here is the Glow in the Dark Flake page as promised. Also, GJ members can use the promo code gjflake (all lower case) for a 10% discount on flake purchases.

 

[Coursey]

Got any pics?

 

[Jsf721]

After the lights are off, how long do they glow?

OK, here is the Glow in the Dark Flake page as promised. Also, GJ members can use the promo code gjflake (all lower case) for a 10% discount on flake purchases.

 

[Garage Flooring]

Got any pics?

Pics on the website

 

[Garage Flooring]

After the lights are off, how long do they glow?

It honestly depends on how much light and what type of light they were exposed to. In my office, florescent light, on all day, I came back in the morning and they were still glowing! The 200+ were much brighter than the 050 and 100 series

 

[Coursey]

Pics on the website

I didn't see them in a floor. Do you have the direct link?

 

[Garage Flooring]

I didn't see them in a floor. Do you have the direct link?

YOUR RIGHT! We have all the product shots and no install shots. I will fix that and get back with you!

 

[hevnbnd]

How about some red ones?

 

[Garage Flooring]

That would be pretty cool. I do not have any

 

[BakingViking]

I'm considering using epoxy to cover the asbestos tile in my 1948 basement and I'd love to use the glow in the dark chips. I've seen some poor reviews though so I'm hesitant. Any installation pictures or other information?