Notching truss for 2 post lift

[DekeT]

You have to sister floor joists occasionally because of plumbing and other penetrations - that passes code. You guys are being overly difficult.

You are so wrong about this because trusses are entirely different animals than joists.

No truss company will tell you how to alter a truss without a detailed drawing, fabrication procedures, and a price tag. NO ENGINEER will expose themselves to that kind of liability. Call them up for free advice on modifying their truss

It is possible that some of the suggestions for a fix may work. Work like this done by people experienced and capable are probably going to be successful. Those types of skilled laborers would never ask such a question on an online board because they know what they are doing. The won't splinter the board or drill too large a pilot hole and will probably use a nailing pattern that makes sense when working on their projects. People that ask are generally not that skilled to do custom work. I know what to do with projects like this and I'll be damned if I would just go tell a rookie to cobble up a bunch of boards. I have no way of being assured these people will do it the correct way after some internet instruction.

Too much is taken for granted by people who can instinctively do the right thing because they are good at it. If you have to ask you don't have it. DOES NOT mean you cannot eventually get it. The best advice people can give on here is to have a newbie seek out the help of an experienced person to learn from instead of tackling potentially dangerous tasks. We all can learn but don't put people out there to fail. Yes many of you can fix this problem without worry. Again, if you have to ask you are not without worry.

 

[grommit]

Truss co and engineers visit construction sites all the time. Theirs is the only advise to listen to. Ask them if you can do rafters over the lift area rather then trusses. There is no cheap way out if the building is now under roof
If you mess with the trusses you may not be able to buy insurance or sell the building until you make it right.

 

[lead_foot]

Maybe I should just get the 9KOH lift.... really wanted the super symmetric arms and single point release. Anyone own the 9kOH?

I have a 9KOH and I love it. I was leery about it not having a single point release system, but it turned out to be an absolute non issue for me. It's been by far the best investment I've put in my garage and I don't regret my decision at all.

 

[JakeKohl]

You are so wrong about this because trusses are entirely different animals than joists.

No truss company will tell you how to alter a truss without a detailed drawing, fabrication procedures, and a price tag. NO ENGINEER will expose themselves to that kind of liability. Call them up for free advice on modifying their truss

It is possible that some of the suggestions for a fix may work. Work like this done by people experienced and capable are probably going to be successful. Those types of skilled laborers would never ask such a question on an online board because they know what they are doing. The won't splinter the board or drill too large a pilot hole and will probably use a nailing pattern that makes sense when working on their projects. People that ask are generally not that skilled to do custom work. I know what to do with projects like this and I'll be damned if I would just go tell a rookie to cobble up a bunch of boards. I have no way of being assured these people will do it the correct way after some internet instruction.

Too much is taken for granted by people who can instinctively do the right thing because they are good at it. If you have to ask you don't have it. DOES NOT mean you cannot eventually get it. The best advice people can give on here is to have a newbie seek out the help of an experienced person to learn from instead of tackling potentially dangerous tasks. We all can learn but don't put people out there to fail. Yes many of you can fix this problem without worry. Again, if you have to ask you are not without worry.

Easy there, trigger...I was advising him to seek the pros for a recommendation but that I wouldn't be surprised if there would be a relatively easy solution that the pros would be forthcoming with. Some people actually enjoy helping other people with their problems (including professionals) and not just telling them "you're screwed".

 

[Diesel Dan]

Hi Dan,

I've got a room above the garage so that wouldn't be an option.

OK, explains why the truss are so heavy duty.

You can't modify the top of the lift because not only does the hoses and detent cables run up there so does the lift equalizer cable which will be extremely difficult to find someone to shorten it.

Here is the lift I have for low clearance:

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USA made lifts from:
http://www.worthequipment.com/2postlifts.htm

I have the 9,000lb floor plate model and have lifted many Diesel pickups on it with no issues. With the heavy loads I planned on lifting I was not going to trust my life to a chinese lift. The downside of a floor plate model is the plate itself is in the way of transmission jacks and other rolling equipment.

Now if money isn't an issue I'd look into one of these,

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The idea of sandwiching in some LVLs might have some validity. My truss headers on 8' spans are 2x12 dimensional lumber but over the 11' door openings they are 1.75"x9.25" LVLs. IIRC the nailing patter for sistering LVLs isn't very complicated either. Never hurts to ask.

 

[NHBandit]

The lift cables are a minor issue if you do decide to shorten the lift posts by a couple inches. It's a simple matter of making spacers out of pipe to make up the difference in cable length. Shortening the lift posts causes the cables to be too long. Easy fix. We had to do it when we installed a lift at an auto salvage yard I used to manage. And before the "you'll poke an eye out" guys respond please keep in mind the cables don't actually support any weight. They simply keep the lift arms equal from side to side.. Remembering that was why I chose to go with 12' walls AND scissor trusses when I built my own garage recently. Of course scissor trusses wouldn't work in your case since you have a 2nd floor. My opinion, for what it's worth, is to either go with a low ceiling lift or shorten the posts and do what I said with the cables.

 

[Diesel Dan]

The lift cables are a minor issue if you do decide to shorten the lift posts by a couple inches. It's a simple matter of making spacers out of pipe to make up the difference in cable length. Shortening the lift posts causes the cables to be too long. Easy fix.

Now that's another option, I like options.

 

[raceman17]

I have the same lift you are thinking about buying. If you can find someone to swedge a new end on the safety cable then I think it wouldnt be hard to modify the top of the lift.

Another option is to look on the net for someone who makes cables. Just have a custome cable made for you or send them your cable to modify.

On the lift modification, tust cut a two inch section out of the side beams and weld the seam back together. That way you do not have to mess with the top plate. The side beams are not that thick. If you have a plasma cutter or if you are good with a torch you can do the modification in a few hrs. This is assuming you have the correct tools to do the job right.


If it was me, I would contact the truss company first and ask them the question about cutting the lower notch for clearance. I know for a fact that if you sandwiched the truss with 2x8's you would be stronger than the one beam by itself. (I'm a mechainal engineer)

They probabaly wont tell you that you can cut it but they could redesign the 4 trusses in that area to go around that section of the lift easily enough. It probabaly to late for that option though. Keep in mind that all trusses are deisgned with a safety factor built into them as well.

If you are going to notch out the truss section.. just wait until the final inspection is done on the building..

Or.. just buy a shorter lift. The lifts that have the top cross bars are more stable though..

 

[raceman17]

The lift cables are a minor issue if you do decide to shorten the lift posts by a couple inches. It's a simple matter of making spacers out of pipe to make up the difference in cable length. Shortening the lift posts causes the cables to be too long. Easy fix. We had to do it when we installed a lift at an auto salvage yard I used to manage. And before the "you'll poke an eye out" guys respond please keep in mind the cables don't actually support any weight.

The loads are actually supported by the cables on this lift when the vehicle is picked up. The hydrallic ram has pulleys on the top of them and the cable snake up, down, and around the whole lift on a pulley system. You take the weight off the cable system when you sit them on the safety locks.

Your idea might not work on this lift for making spacers beause the way the attachment points are designed on the lift, they are concelled in the lift arm brackets and they give you a very small access cover plate area to make the connections. I do not know if there is enough room for the spacers to go on the underside of that connection point. If i remeber tonight I will remove my cover plate and see if there is enough room to make up the space. The good news is that there are adjustments on each end of the cable.

 

[NHBandit]

The loads are actually supported by the cables on this lift when the vehicle is picked up. The hydrallic ram has pulleys on the top of them and the cable snake up, down, and around the whole lift on a pulley system. You take the weight off the cable system when you sit them on the safety locks.

Your idea might not work on this lift for making spacers beause the way the attachment points are designed on the lift, they are concelled in the lift arm brackets and they give you a very small access cover plate area to make the connections. I do not know if there is enough room for the spacers to go on the underside of that connection point. If i remeber tonight I will remove my cover plate and see if there is enough room to make up the space. The good news is that there are adjustments on each end of the cable.

I see what you're saying if his lift is the same as yours. The type we installed at the salvage yard is basically the same as what I have in my current shop and it's easy to add the spacers to the cables. For example if you were to shorten the lift posts by 2" you would then have cables that are 4" too long. You could either put a 4" piece of pipe on ONE end of each cable or a 2" section on BOTH ends (total of 4 spacers). Here is a pic of my lift showing how easy it is to access the cables. This one does not need spacers since it has not been shortened. I have about 14' where the lift is sitting due to the scissor trusses I used. Also I'm still not convinced the cables themselves take any real weight. The pulley on top of the hydraulic ram has the CHAIN running over it and it's this heavy chain that holds the weight. The cables are not attached to the ram in any way (at least on mine).

 

[raceman17]

Yeah the adjustment on the cable ends are all pointing down on every end. So, adding spacers will probabably pull the cable down past the crimp connection on the cable where the cable passes through the lift arms. But regardless your idea will work as long as you can still make the adjustments. The adjustments are also used to fine tune the left to right lifting of both arms so they lift at the same time.

 

[KPSquared]

Starting to think notching and plating trusses is safer than cutting up a hoist. This goes way beyond "drilling a couple new holes". How come no one's screaming for an engineer on this option?

 

[raceman17]

Starting to think notching and plating trusses is safer than cutting up a hoist. This goes way beyond "drilling a couple new holes". How come no one's screaming for an engineer on this option?

I am a mechanical engineer. I work on projects everyday dealing with steel structural members being cut and rewelded back together. If the weld area is properly prepared and you are a decent welder then the repair will be as strong as the original piece of material. This only holds true from steel. DO NOT DO THIS TO ALUMINUM!!!! Welding on aluminum results in almost a 1/2 lose of yield strength in the weld area.

If he can take two inches out of the the top of each upright right below the top plate and reweld the pieces together then this will work. I have the same lift in my shop and can verify that this can be done. The only issue now is just getting the slack taken out of the lift cables. This can be done by either added spacers to the underside of the adjusting nut or getting the cable shortened and a new end swedged onto the cable. I will check and see if there is room inside the arm lift column to take the slack up today after work.

 

[Hornman]

How come no one's screaming for an engineer on this option?

O.K., I'm am engineer too. I think the first thing you should do is call your truss company and explain your predicament. They can run their truss computer models and create a solution. It might be as simple as running a tension cable alongside eash of the notched trusses. Or the computer may say that sistering a 14ft 2x8 on both sides of each truss will work. Whatever they come up with, it must be designed to replicate the original load bearing capacity of the truss! The truss company will then generate a plan for all cutting, drilling, glueing, screwing and bolting to make sure the truss integrity is not violated. Wouldn't surprise me if they insisted on doing the work (by a contractor chosen by them).

 

[Maine]

Okay guys I appreciate all the input here, I just bought an Atlas 9KOH instead, which will fit just fine in the garage as is with no cutting of trusses.

Not exactly the lift I wanted but damn close, and to be honest, for a hobby lift it is probably great- after all, I don't even have a lift now!

 

[NHBandit]

I am a mechanical engineer. I work on projects everyday dealing with steel structural members being cut and rewelded back together. If the weld area is properly prepared and you are a decent welder then the repair will be as strong as the original piece of material. This only holds true from steel. DO NOT DO THIS TO ALUMINUM!!!! Welding on aluminum results in almost a 1/2 lose of yield strength in the weld area.

If he can take two inches out of the the top of each upright right below the top plate and reweld the pieces together then this will work. I have the same lift in my shop and can verify that this can be done. The only issue now is just getting the slack taken out of the lift cables. This can be done by either added spacers to the underside of the adjusting nut or getting the cable shortened and a new end swedged onto the cable. I will check and see if there is room inside the arm lift column to take the slack up today after work.

OK, for the guys who are worried about shortening the lift posts affecting the structural integrity of the lift. Using MY lift as an example again. Here is an old pic from when we were still setting it up. What we did at the auto salvage yard I managed was to take 2" out of the upper part of the posts and weld it back together. Not where the 2 halves bolt together, just chopped 2" out of the middle of the upper post extensions and **** welded them back together. I am referring to the upper short section of each post that is bolted to the lower sections and directly below the bolt on cross brace. This section is not supporting any weight, just as the top cross brace dosn't provide much strength. If it did they wouldn't sell "bottom plate" type lifts that have NO top bracing. It (the cross brace) is made of much lighter guage steel because of this. It is simply there to help keep the posts evenly spaced and to provide a place for the cable guide pulleys and hydraulic hoses to be routed. These next comments are in no way directed towards raceman.. What he has posted is exactly what I have suggested and exactly what we DID in the past when we had a clearance issue. The LOWER part of the lift posts do all the work. Overengineer it if you will and over analize it if it's your nature but you're making a simple solution WAY too complicated. Run around telling everyone they're gonna poke an eye out if you must but this is a quick, easy, SAFE solution to the problem. Just keep in mind it also means you lose 2" of space under the car at full lift and you may have to be careful when lifting things with a high roof. Same thing when lifting a car with the hood open. The lift we modified at the salvage yard was exactly the same model as the one I have and we used it hard on a daily basis stripping wrecked cars & trucks for a period of 10 years without any issues. When I left that job they were still using it.

 

[larry1030]

The bottom chords are in tension, not compression (assuming no flooring load above) so you may be able to notch them and reinforce them with wood sisters or metal plates. But get a professional engineer to do a design for you just to be on the safe side. You may be able to get the company that supplied the trusses to do it for you for free.

Another option - can you cut down the lift posts 2" and get some custom (4" shorter) cables made?

 

[NHBandit]

Another option - can you cut down the lift posts 2" and get some custom (4" shorter) cables made?

LoL... Did you even bother to READ the last 2 pages ? Anyway welcome to the forum. Great bunch of guys here and a wealth of knowlege. Even if you do skip over most of it....

 

[larry1030]

LoL... Did you even bother to READ the last 2 pages ? Anyway welcome to the forum. Great bunch of guys here and a wealth of knowlege. Even if you do skip over most of it....

No, not ALL of it! lol

 

[NHBandit]

No, not ALL of it! lol

It's cool. I guess it means that since you & a couple other guys came up with the same suggestion then I'm not completely full of ****... LOLOL

 

[larry1030]

It's cool. I guess it means that since you & a couple other guys came up with the same suggestion then I'm not completely full of ****... LOLOL

That's true! Of course after your first reply to me I went back and read the last few posts before mine and see everything I said had just been said before - I'll try to read more of the thread before I post in the future. All 60 posts! lol

 

[Sureshot]

I think larry1030 should owe beer or something.

 

[raceman17]

These next comments are in no way directed towards raceman.. What he has posted is exactly what I have suggested and exactly what we DID in the past when we had a clearance issue. The LOWER part of the lift posts do all the work. Overengineer it if you will and over analize it if it's your nature but you're making a simple solution WAY too complicated. Run around telling evieryone they're gonna poke an eye out if you must but this is a quick, easy, SAFE solution to the problem. Just keep in mind it also means you lose 2" of space under the car at full lift and you may have to be careful when lifting things with a high roof. Same thing when lifting a car with the hood open. The lift we modified at the salvage yard was exactly the same model as the one I have and we used it hard on a daily basis stripping wrecked cars & trucks for a period of 10 years without any issues. When I left that job they were still using it.

Hey I liked your idea! We were on the same page.

On another note.. I just joined this forum a few days ago. I had some good help suggested to me over in the HVAC forum so I am going to do my part and try to pay the appreciation forward.

I just finished up building my new racecar shop which is 40x80 metal building. I did everything on the building except the slab.

I will get everything together and do a real good write up with tons of pics of my build. I ended up with a nice shop.

And as another side note... I'm not goin to get into arguments with everybody over different techniques. We are here to help each other out!

 

[larry1030]

I think larry1030 should owe beer or something.

That's fine with me, but I went back and read the whole thread and if everyone who repeated someone else's suggestion owed beer we would need a whole brewery...

 

[NHBandit]

Hey I liked your idea! We were on the same page.

On another note.. I just joined this forum a few days ago. I had some good help suggested to me over in the HVAC forum so I am going to do my part and try to pay the appreciation forward.

I just finished up building my new racecar shop which is 40x80 metal building. I did everything on the building except the slab.

I will get everything together and do a real good write up with tons of pics of my build. I ended up with a nice shop.

And as another side note... I'm not goin to get into arguments with everybody over different techniques. We are here to help each other out!

What kind of racecars ? I used to mess with Nascar Pro-Stocks which are similar to an ARCA car and had a hand in wrenching a dirt modified or 2 as well. Fun times but got to be too expensive.

 

[raceman17]

j

What kind of racecars ? I used to mess with Nascar Pro-Stocks which are similar to an ARCA car and had a hand in wrenching a dirt modified or 2 as well. Fun times but got to be too expensive.

I've been racing cars for about 15 or so years. I race on dirt because its more exciting than the asphalt. I started out in bombers and then street stocks. I got tired of all the beating and banging and moved up to a higher class. One of the cars I have is called a vintage car. It's kinda like an old school legend style car (32 ford body style). The frame is based on the gm metric front and rear clips with a tube chassis in between. The motor is set back behind the crossmember like a modified. And it's also an open wheeled car. I've been in this class for about 4-5 years now.

I also have a mini sprint car. These Cars are just like a full size sprint ar just shrunk down. They are powered by a 600cc motor cycle engine. The syspension on them are also pretty my identical with coil springs or torsion type springs. I'm going on my 2nd year in this class and I am doin quite well!

 

[raceman17]

Here's the other car. I can't figure out how to post two pics on the same post from an iPhone!

 

[Sureshot]

That's fine with me, but I went back and read the whole thread and if everyone who repeated someone else's suggestion owed beer we would need a whole brewery...

I just want to get you on record owing beer while new here in case we meet up someday.

 

[motofool33]

so what was the solution to the trusses problem?

 

[PetesPonies]

I can supply you with facts of my case. I had trusses set at 8' high. THey are 4' OC, pole barn. I needed to notch 3 trusses. I notched the two ends less, but the center needed to be notched almost 4 '. What I did was modify the trusses as needed. Then I sandwiched the three trusses with 1/2" plywood, on both sides of the truss. I did this 18 years ago. I had 80" of snow on the roof within a 10 day span, with over 36" at one time. I had no problems, never a problem. Although I sold the property last year, there are still no problems. A plywood sandwich is extremely stout and will resist compression and tension forces. It certainly worked for me.

 

[mygarageone]

The other thing I notice on these sites , the OP said what his final solution would be and new posters continue to not read it and offer more unneeded advice ?

 

[mygarageone]

so what was the solution to the trusses problem?

He went with a different lift .

 

[PetesPonies]

The other thing I notice on these sites , the OP said what his final solution would be and new posters continue to not read it and offer more unneeded advice ?

I suppose if you can only think in a small, small box, then you don't realize that people search these threads and use them for reference even years and years later. Giving facts, at any point, is worth it.

 

[mygarageone]

I suppose if you can only think in a small, small box, then you don't realize that people search these threads and use them for reference even years and years later. Giving facts, at any point, is worth it.

Well given the vast array of answers , opinions and comments . I observed the subject well discussed.
And you know as well as i , many people don't not read a long drawn out thread , will jump in an give some answer already given 6 other times.

So your comment is irelavent to me and I am the last person who thinks small , as your comment was meant to imply I do.
Small thinking people usual never get out of the gate . I just know when to not comment on a subject I have absolutely no idea about. Even though I could give an opinion based on yrs in the construction field.

 

[PetesPonies]

Well taken from my Industrial Engineering degree, having taught Engineering and related topics . . . I felt my opinion mattered. I wasn't writing to you anyway . . right?

 

[mygarageone]

Well taken from my Industrial Engineering degree, having taught Engineering and related topics . . . I felt my opinion mattered. I wasn't writing to you anyway . . right?

Your opinion matters as much as anyone else's , my only point was the O.P decided to go a different direction .