Good deal on a panel?

[ShiftedSolutions]

Im looking to put a 100 amp panel in my shop and came across this... didnt know eaton even made panels. Is this a decent deal? Should I stick with Square D instead or shouldnt it matter? If link doesnt work it is an Eaton 100 Amp BR Loadcenter, 20/20 Circuits-Value Pack.



100 Amp BR Loadcenter, 20/20 Circuits-Value Pack

 

[pattenp]

Eaton is Cutler-Hammer panels. The BR panel is just as good as the Square-D Homeline. Personally I like the Cutler-Hammer CH line.

 

[matt151617]

Your link doesn't work. How much is it? Home Depot has a Square D Homeline value pack for $53- I haven't found anything cheaper. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...Center-with-Cover-Value-Pack-HOMVP5/100197589

I have the Homeline 100 amp panel in my garage and Eaton/Cutler-Hammer BR panel in my house. Both are great, and breakers are cheap.

 

[ShiftedSolutions]

http://www.menards.com/main/electri...0-20-circuits-value-pack/p-1984714-c-6437.htm

Sorry try this link instead. Its $49.95. So if I have a square d panel it takes only square d breakers? and same goes for eaton panel/cutler hammer breakers?

 

[NUTTSGT]

If it's possible, consider buy the same brand/style that you have in the house, just smaller. Worst case scenario, a house breaker fails at 10 PM Sunday night, you can rob one out of the garage breaker box until you pick up a new one from the store.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Cutler hammer is just the latest name for t&b and the last 5 names before that,Sq D on the other hand has been around a long time and I dont see them going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[porschedude996TT]

Your link doesn't work. How much is it? Home Depot has a Square D Homeline value pack for $53- I haven't found anything cheaper. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...Center-with-Cover-Value-Pack-HOMVP5/100197589

I have the Homeline 100 amp panel in my garage and Eaton/Cutler-Hammer BR panel in my house. Both are great, and breakers are cheap.

I have the Home Depot Square D in my shop and it is a good product.

 

[matt151617]

If it's possible, consider buy the same brand/style that you have in the house, just smaller. Worst case scenario, a house breaker fails at 10 PM Sunday night, you can rob one out of the garage breaker box until you pick up a new one from the store.

I was just going to suggest this. Also, you don't have to buy 2 different kinds of breakers when changing around circuits.

The breakers are not interchangable between Square D and Eaton unless it says so specifically on the panel.

 

[pattenp]

Where did you get that bit of information from? I think Cutler-Hammer has been around for a long time and was acquired in the late 70's by Eaton. I don't recall Cutler-Hammer breakers and panels being under any different brand name.

Cutler hammer is just the latest name for t&b and the last 5 names before that,Sq D on the other hand has been around a long time and I dont see them going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Gary S]

I have two of those panels. One is a sub panel in my house, and the other is a sub panel in my garage. I have no complaints with either one.
But, be aware that these are 20/20 panels. That means no half size breakers fit them. Before buying, make sure that 20 spaces will be enough.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Where did you get that bit of information from? I think Cutler-Hammer has been around for a long time and was acquired in the late 70's by Eaton. I don't recall Cutler-Hammer breakers and panels being under any different brand name.

Last time I was at the supply house looking for t&b breakers I was told they were bought out by cutler hammer and used as the br line.
The other style of ch breakers/panels has been around a long time ,but not the br series(well a few years anyway).
Feel free to correct me if Im wrong.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Bryant Electric was an independent manufacturer of electrical products, founded in 1888. The grew and eventually became associated with Westinghouse, who eventually offshored much of the production and eventually sold the entire Bryant line to Hubbell in 1991. Somewhere along about this time (1994) Eaton acquired the Westinghouse electrical division that controlled the Bryant panel lines, and then immediately divested itself of the circuit breaker and panel lines to Thomas & Betts. With the ABB Ltd company acquiring the Thomas & Betts Corp, the circuit breaker and panel line was sold to Cutler-Hammer, as ABB has its own lines of circuit breakers and power distribution panels.

Long twisted and convoluted, but the C-H Bryant panel line is a decent quality product.

For the OP, if you have a decent, modern panel in your house now, buy the same brand, type, etc, for breaker commonality. It is worth spending a couple of extra bucks on, to know you don't have to try and remember which panel is which brand when you are at the store buying an additional breaker or part, and you have the option of cross switching breakers during modifications, upgrades, or emergencies.

That being said, I have a mixed panel situation, with an older Square D QO panel in the house, and a Siemens panel in the shop. Eventually the Square D panel in the house will get replaced with a new Siemens one for a number of reasons I won't bother to get into. At that time the house will get a outside disconnect, and four wire supplying the panel, and the grounds and neutrals separated. Presently the SqD has a short, bleacher seat stack of ground/neutral bar jammed up near the main breaker and no room to work, and no room to separate the neutrals and grounds.

Charles

 

[soj]

OK, my 2 cents, which is worth about half that...

Siemens panels.

Lots of little things that make them easy to work with. Separate neutral and ground bars included, nothing else to buy, every screw in the panel uses the same head (slotted/square drive combo) (except for the bigger lugs, they are recessed hex, like all others), all the screws on the buss bars and breakers are already backed out, ready to insert a wire, the breaker terminals are made like a lug or buss bar, with the screw pressing on the center of the wire, lots of room around the neutral & ground bars, the hooks that hold the cover on till you start the screws... just little things, but they all add up. Oh, and copper main buss that looks like copper, no wondering if it is tin plated copper or aluminium.

Not being an electrician I don't deal with near as many panels as some of you who are electricians, but the few Siemens panels I have installed, I liked the way they were made. To each his own, but that is my vote. Price is about the same as Square D. One more thing. Although they may not be "listed" for Siemens panels, AFAIK Cutler-Hammer breakers will fit.
jp

 

[soj]

Bryant Electric was an independent manufacturer of electrical products, founded in 1888. The grew and eventually became associated with Westinghouse, who eventually offshored much of the production and eventually sold the entire Bryant line to Hubbell in 1991. Somewhere along about this time (1994) Eaton acquired the Westinghouse electrical division that controlled the Bryant panel lines, and then immediately divested itself of the circuit breaker and panel lines to Thomas & Betts. With the ABB Ltd company acquiring the Thomas & Betts Corp, the circuit breaker and panel line was sold to Cutler-Hammer, as ABB has its own lines of circuit breakers and power distribution panels.

Long twisted and convoluted, but the C-H Bryant panel line is a decent quality product.

For the OP, if you have a decent, modern panel in your house now, buy the same brand, type, etc, for breaker commonality. It is worth spending a couple of extra bucks on, to know you don't have to try and remember which panel is which brand when you are at the store buying an additional breaker or part, and you have the option of cross switching breakers during modifications, upgrades, or emergencies.

That being said, I have a mixed panel situation, with an older Square D QO panel in the house, and a Siemens panel in the shop. Eventually the Square D panel in the house will get replaced with a new Siemens one for a number of reasons I won't bother to get into. At that time the house will get a outside disconnect, and four wire supplying the panel, and the grounds and neutrals separated. Presently the SqD has a short, bleacher seat stack of ground/neutral bar jammed up near the main breaker and no room to work, and no room to separate the neutrals and grounds.

Charles

Charles, I didn't see your post when I started on post #13. Are any of my reason for liking Siemens panels the same as yours, or do you have an entirely different "number of reasons" to go with a Siemens?

And thanks for the history lesson. Convoluted corporate family trees are interesting to me, I am weird that way.
jp

 

[Ryf]

go with what you have, if thats not possible, go with what is available locally for replacement parts. good luck with your project

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Charles, I didn't see your post when I started on post #13. Are any of my reason for liking Siemens panels the same as yours, or do you have an entirely different "number of reasons" to go with a Siemens?

And thanks for the history lesson. Convoluted corporate family trees are interesting to me, I am weird that way.
jp

I too like the solid copper bus bars, no plating. Having a ground and a neutral on each side would be a plus mine does not have, my shop panel has a ground on one side, and a neutral on the other, but its just a matter of planning. I just like the Siemens unit better. I never did like the flat strip the SqD QO breakers have to clip on to, and the 3/4 inch wide SqD QO breakers make the panel tighter, less room between wires, as opposed to the 1" wide breakers of other manufacturers.

Of course Siemens is German, Square D is French, Cutler-Hammer is owned by Eaton, an Irish based company, so where do you want your money to go?

Charles

 

[Norcal]

Cutler hammer is just the latest name for t&b and the last 5 names before that,Sq D on the other hand has been around a long time and I dont see them going anywhere anytime soon.

Incorrect, Challenger was owned by Westinghouse & the early 1990's Eaton bought the Westinghouse distribution & controls div & folded it into their Cutler-Hammer div., BR was Bryant, Westinghouse's residential, light commercial div., Challenger & Westinghouse's safety switch line was sold to T&B who pushed it for a while then it went "****" & never to be seen again.

Prior to being Challenger, they were GTE/Sylvania, which was Zinsco.


Cutler-Hammer was taken over by Eaton in 1978, C-H has prob. been around longer then Square D.

 

[MTW]

Incorrect, Challenger was owned by Westinghouse & the early 1990's Eaton bought the Westinghouse distribution & controls div & folded it into their Cutler-Hammer div., BR was Bryant, Westinghouse's residential, light commercial div., Challenger & Westinghouse's safety switch line was sold to T&B who pushed it for a while then it went "****" & never to be seen again.

Prior to being Challenger, they were GTE/Sylvania, which was Zinsco.


Cutler-Hammer was taken over by Eaton in 1978, C-H has prob. been around longer then Square D.

Few people in the trade know that Square D, was started in Detroit in 1903. They were the first ones to enclose a switch in a metal enclosure. Up until that time all switches were open knife switches, and very dangerous. As I understand it the "D" was for Detroit stamped right into the cover of the switch with a raised square around it. Legend has it this is how the name Square D came to being. Installers were always asking for the enclosed switches with the square around the D on the cover. Being a metro Detroiter I have come across many of their old switches and panelboards still in service till this day.

One more factoid from Detrioit's electrical history is bus-duct. The original was Bulldog brand, sold to ITE, then to Siemens. They're still making the original BD duct to this day, with a Siemens badge. Detroit had many electrical innovations during this period as it was the biggest industrialized production center of the world during this time period.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Incorrect, Challenger was owned by Westinghouse & the early 1990's Eaton bought the Westinghouse distribution & controls div & folded it into their Cutler-Hammer div., BR was Bryant, Westinghouse's residential, light commercial div., Challenger & Westinghouse's safety switch line was sold to T&B who pushed it for a while then it went "****" & never to be seen again.

Prior to being Challenger, they were GTE/Sylvania, which was Zinsco.


Cutler-Hammer was taken over by Eaton in 1978, C-H has prob. been around longer then Square D.

I didnt say cutler hammer wasnt making stuff anymore,I said they bought out Thomas&betts a few years back.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Few people in the trade know that Square D, was started in Detroit in 1903. They were the first ones to enclose a switch in a metal enclosure. Up until that time all switches were open knife switches, and very dangerous. As I understand it the "D" was for Detroit stamped right into the cover of the switch with a raised square around it. Legend has it this is how the name Square D came to being. Installers were always asking for the enclosed switches with the square around the D on the cover. Being a metro Detroiter I have come across many of their old switches and panelboards still in service till this day.

One more factoid from Detrioit's electrical history is bus-duct. The original was Bulldog brand, sold to ITE, then to Siemens. They're still making the original BD duct to this day, with a Siemens badge. Detroit had many electrical innovations during this period as it was the biggest industrialized production center of the world during this time period.

Thank you.

 

[Norcal]

I didnt say cutler hammer wasnt making stuff anymore,I said they bought out Thomas&betts a few years back.

T&B is owned by ABB, who also owns Baldor.

Edit: Cutler-Hammer started in 1892.

Edit #2

The above C-H info taken from the book "An American Dream A Commemorative History of Cutler-Hammer Inc. 1892-1978".

1978 was the last year for C-H as a independent company.

 

[pattenp]

My confusion was with your #6 post. I was reading it as CH came into existence from T&B, or became CH at the corporate level, not that CH took over T&B. Cutler Hammer came into existence as a company in 1893.

I didnt say cutler hammer wasnt making stuff anymore,I said they bought out Thomas&betts a few years back.

 

[kallis222]

I personally like the Cutler-Hammer CH but i hope that good deal looking comfortable and ever reliable deal at that time i can not tell to you that in the future its good deal or not...

southocean sensor services

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

My confusion was with your #6 post. I was reading it as CH came into existence from T&B, or became CH at the corporate level, not that CH took over T&B. Cutler Hammer came into existence as a company in 1893.

Yep ,Sorry I was just refering to that particular panel and line of breakers.
Ive seen so many companies come and go over the last 30 plus years ya need a score card to keep up.

 

[Norcal]

Yep ,Sorry I was just refering to that particular panel and line of breakers.
Ive seen so many companies come and go over the last 30 plus years ya need a score card to keep up.

Gone, Wadsworth, FPE,Zinsco/Sylvania/Challenger, T&B "Classified Interchangeable" panels, Bulldog Electric,Westinghouse.

Names that changed, ITE became Siemens, Crouse-Hinds reverted to their former name Murray. Bryant became Westinghouse & is now Cutler-Hammer.

Four manufacturers left.

Cutler-Hammer, which Eaton seems to be dropping in favor of their own name.

Square D.

Siemens, including Murray/Siemens.

GE.

 

[bobbyu]

I see this is an old thread but I have a question about this panel and this looks as good as place as any to ask. I purchased one of these panels not fully understanding what it is. I haven't installed it yet and might take it back. I'm planning on using it as a sub panel in a 3rd garage feeding it with 2-2-2-4 ser from my main panel using a 90 amp breaker. I thought it was going to be like the picture on the box with a main disconnect. So I was a little confused when I saw it had a 100 amp breaker. I take it that I wire the two hots into the 100amp breaker and that acts as the disconnect? Of course the ground to ground side and nutral over to the other side.
Thanks
Bob

 

[Mustang51js]

Yes you are correct, the 100 amp breaker would be more for the disconnect since the breaker in your main will trip before that one on an overload

 

[bobbyu]

I guess they must work ok. The search I did for it found about all positive comments. It was a great price with the 6 breakers included.
Thanks

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I see this is an old thread but I have a question about this panel and this looks as good as place as any to ask. I purchased one of these panels not fully understanding what it is. I haven't installed it yet and might take it back. I'm planning on using it as a sub panel in a 3rd garage feeding it with 2-2-2-4 ser from my main panel using a 90 amp breaker. I thought it was going to be like the picture on the box with a main disconnect. So I was a little confused when I saw it had a 100 amp breaker. I take it that I wire the two hots into the 100amp breaker and that acts as the disconnect? Of course the ground to ground side and nutral over to the other side.
Thanks
Bob

Since its being used as a subpanel make sure that the neutral bars are insulated/isolated from the panel enclosure and ground bar. And the panel might no have come with a ground bar so u might have to buy one.

 

[bobbyu]

Yea I read that on Gj several times. Out of the box it has the neutral and ground bar connected but insulated from the panel. I will pull the strap tieing the two together. I hope to get the panel mounted and a lot of the wire pulling done tomorrow besides the yard work I need to keep up on.
Thanks.

 

[JohnX14]

I've been using these panels since the mid 80's when it was the Bryant line and kept going through all their incarnations and still use them. Around 15 years ago they began using galvanized tubs instead of painted - always a plus. Sometimes it is impossible to remove the screw which connects the strap that connects the ground to neutral bar. When this is the case, you can just snip the strap. (As a side note there was a company making the same panels after Bryant sold to Westinghouse in the early '90's called General Switch. They were only around (the panels, not sure about the company) for a few years. They had all copper bussing and made the same color coded handles that Bryant used)

 

[Norcal]

Bryant was never sold to Westinghouse, they had owned Bryant for many decades, besides wiring devices, Bryant was the residential, light commercial loadcenter line of Westinghouse, later rebranded as Westinghouse, who also owned Challenger (formerly Zinsco & later Sylvania). I had a issue w/ Bryant BR breakers so to this day I will not use them unless it's the correct breaker for a existing panel.


General Switch was around for many years & were not part of Westinghouse, they used Zinsco style main breakers for 200A panels, but so do did **** panels like the BR series panels. I prefer the Cutler-Hammer CH series or Siemens.


Anybody who used Zinsco style mains is on my s**t list with the only 2 companies still around being the Eaton BR style loadcenters & Milbank & Milbank still makes a Zinsco style main, I do give Eaton credit for the redesigned mains they use now in the CH, & BR loadcenters.

 

[pattenp]

I believe that panel does not have a separate ground bar. Both bars are used as neutral/ground because the panel comes setup as a main service panel. There should be a bonding jumper from one of the bars to the case. To use the panel as a sub-panel you remove the bonding jumper and install a ground bar kit.

Yea I read that on Gj several times. Out of the box it has the neutral and ground bar connected but insulated from the panel. I will pull the strap tieing the two together. I hope to get the panel mounted and a lot of the wire pulling done tomorrow besides the yard work I need to keep up on.
Thanks.

 

[JohnX14]

I believe that panel does not have a separate ground bar. Both bars are used as neutral/ground because the panel comes setup as a main service panel. There should be a bonding jumper from one of the bars to the case. To use the panel as a sub-panel you remove the bonding jumper and install a ground bar kit.

Each bar is standing off of the metal tub with plastic spacers. One of the bars has a copper "strap" that is the main bonding jumper that connects the bar to the tub. Then the 2 bars are tied together with a metal strap covered with a plastic sleeve that runs behind the bussing to the bar on the other side. You remove the strap that connects the 2 ground bars to isolate the grounded and grounding conductors.

 

[JohnX14]

General Switch was around for many years & were not part of Westinghouse, they used Zinsco style main breakers for 200A panels, but so do did **** panels like the BR series panels. I prefer the Cutler-Hammer CH series or Siemens.


.

General Switch sold a panel and breakers identical to the Bryant BR series for a few years. I don't know if it was a copycat or they bought the mfg plant or equipment. But it was only around for a short while in my area. Early '90's

 

[pattenp]

Technically you can remove the tie strap between the 2 bars, but I don't believe it is the recommended way. If I remember correctly the tie bar is behind the main buss plate which requires you to remove the main buss to get the strap off. That's why they offer a ground bar kit.

Each bar is standing off of the metal tub with plastic spacers. One of the bars has a copper "strap" that is the main bonding jumper that connects the bar to the tub. Then the 2 bars are tied together with a metal strap covered with a plastic sleeve that runs behind the bussing to the bar on the other side. You remove the strap that connects the 2 ground bars to isolate the grounded and grounding conductors.

 

[Todd.Brock]

This was my thought a couple months ago. I checked with Eaton and they said it's not supposed to be separated. It seems easy enough to do, but manufacturer said no... So I spent the 3 bucks for a ground bar kit.

 

[pattenp]

That's my understanding. Plus another thing is by separating the bars you may find yourself short on holes to connect neutrals to. Grounds can be doubled up in a hole but neutrals are to be one to a hole.

This was my thought a couple months ago. I checked with Eaton and they said it's not supposed to be separated. It seems easy enough to do, but manufacturer said no... So I spent the 3 bucks for a ground bar kit.

 

[JohnX14]

Technically you can remove the tie strap between the 2 bars, but I don't believe it is the recommended way. If I remember correctly the tie bar is behind the main buss plate which requires you to remove the main buss to get the strap off. That's why they offer a ground bar kit.

Well I never really thought about it that way but you may be correct. The entire bussing comes out of the panel by loosening (2) 5/15 hex head screws. It takes about 15 seconds to remove the strap. I've been doing it so long I never gave it a thought. Before they had the ground bar on each side, they had 2 on the right side of the panel.

 

[Norcal]

General Switch sold a panel and breakers identical to the Bryant BR series for a few years. I don't know if it was a copycat or they bought the mfg plant or equipment. But it was only around for a short while in my area. Early '90's

The photo below is a General Switch loadcenter.



It's about 30 years old. BTW the damage to the bottom of the box was done by a forklift.