My 60x36x12 ground breaking NIGHTMARE!!

[premierjax]

Well guys after digging my holes yesterday I found that Im drilling right into the water table After the first hole I noticed some seepage around the bottom by the time the guy was done digging all 14 of the holes had water in the bottom of them and 7 or 8 of the holes 3' down the side were caving in. So I went to bed aggravated just to wake up in a cold sweat at 2 a.m. with a frigin rain storm the size of Texas beating on my window. Needles to say if the bottom of the holes werent already caved in enought now the top of the holes are as well!! Here is the big question now what the f*&% do I do with a bunch of caved in, filled to the brim with water, 4'6" holes!! I searched around yesterday for some 24" sonotubes, and found them, they are nothing more than cardboard in a tube shape, I figured with a trash pump for the water and a good set of post hole diggers I can clean the holes out stick the tubes in and before the bottom fills to much with water set the poles and pour 15 or so bags of 80# concrete into the holes. Has anyone ever had this issue? or can anyone direct me in what I should do? Please, please, please, if you have any ideas Im open for suggestions, understandably there is a lot of money sitting on the ground with materials, so I need to make a decision one way or the other on what I should do. Thank you in advance for any replies. Im sorry I just tried to load pictures to no avail, will work on it tonight.

 

[jkwilson]

To offer any useful advice, we'd need to know what your soil is like and what kind of area you live in. If the weather has been wet recently, it wouldn't be surprising to see water in the bottom of the holes when you drilled them. It's unlikely you normally have water that close to the surface unless you are on bottom ground.

 

[premierjax]

Thanks wilson, Im in an area Florida known by the locals as "Clay Hill" you can literally dig down 2' and your in in clay. There hadnt been much rain lately, and to be honest Im not sure if Im on bottom ground, or not. I know the holes are pretty much layered from sandy soil, to clay and then it looks like back to sandy soil underneath. When the holes started caving in it was pretty bad in some of them you can stand to the side and see a couple of feet into a cavity

 

[theoldwizard1]

What do the local codes say ?

Some places require you to pour a 6-12" "cookie" at the bottom and let that set up before installing the posts.

 

[LB-1911]

May want to check into Bigfoot Systems®

"Check your local building codes to determine which Bigfoot Systems® Footing Form fits your construction needs. If you have questions about our products, don't hesitate to call us toll-free from Canada and the United States 1-800-934-0393."

http://www.bigfootsystems.com/include/products.htm

 

[Cougar]

Can you build on top of the slab?
I imagine it's to late make a change.

 

[brownbagg]

we build in water every day, our water table is at two feet. we just dig and pour as fast as possible, usually within hours, water get into we just drop about a foot of 57 stone. also you will learn real quick how to pour concrete in water

 

[premierjax]

The engineered plans for down here in Florida call for a 2x4'6" hole filled with concrete, #5 rebar criss crossed through the post for upheaval. LB1911 are you suppose to set the post on top of your piling or set the post in the tube?

 

[premierjax]

brownbag, being caught with my pants down on this one what should I do now? Is my plan with pumping the water out sticking a sonotube down in hole and pouring, the right idea? Should I use some type of cap for the bottom of the tube? Or should I just install the tube and fill with some stone, set the post and then fill?

 

[premierjax]

Also brownbag, do you pour dry #80 bags into hole or should I have a truck ready with premixed?

 

[brucer]

sounds like you need to call someone thats building post frames to code in your area and ask them..

 

[gnxtc2]

Off topic but my shop is the same size as your (60'Lx35'Wx12'H). Go with a 14' ceiling.

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[premierjax]

ha thanks gnxtc, but Im using metal trusses with a 3/12 pitch so Ill have open ceiling up to a peak height of about 16' or 17'

 

[premierjax]

sounds like you need to call someone thats building post frames to code in your area and ask them..

Ive tried already no one really that is local builds these

 

[Diesel Dan]

It's unlikely you normally have water that close to the surface unless you are on bottom ground.

I've seen properties like this before, not the most desirable anyway.

Thanks wilson, Im in an area Florida known by the locals as "Clay Hill" you can literally dig down 2' and your in in clay.

On our property I hit clay at 6" and it is silty clay(SiC) so our perched water table is 5" in areas.

The engineered plans for down here in Florida call for a 2x4'6" hole filled with concrete, #5 rebar criss crossed through the post for upheaval.

2x4'6"? Explain please.
My pole pads had to be 24" diameter x 12" thick and 48" to the top of the pad so holes were 50"+ deep.
Rebar could be used for uplift protection or 2x6x12" pieces of treated board nailed to the bottom of the posts. IIRC, rebar needed a concrete collar poured around the bottom of the post.

Also brownbag, do you pour dry #80 bags into hole or should I have a truck ready with premixed?

As far as I know dry mix is never up to code, needs to be mixed.
I brought in a truck since it would have taken 100+ bags to do it right.

Water like this?

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[HoosierMark]

I would be concerned with the poles rotting off from the moisture they will be sitting in. Many people here in Indiana are going to a premade concrete post with a bracket for the 4x4 post to attach to above grade. It eliminates earth to wood contact and wood post rot. Check out perma-column on google. My brother ended up tearing down a large pole barn due to most of the poles having rotted off.

 

[premierjax]

I've seen properties like this before, not the most desirable anyway.


On our property I hit clay at 6" and it is silty clay(SiC) so our perched water table is 5" in areas.


2x4'6"? Explain please.
My pole pads had to be 24" diameter x 12" thick and 48" to the top of the pad so holes were 50"+ deep.
Rebar could be used for uplift protection or 2x6x12" pieces of treated board nailed to the bottom of the posts. IIRC, rebar needed a concrete collar poured around the bottom of the post.


As far as I know dry mix is never up to code, needs to be mixed.
I brought in a truck since it would have taken 100+ bags to do it right.

Water like this?

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Dan

Since Im in a 130mph wind zone the holes need to be 4'6" deep, 24" in diameter. Im going to fill the holes up to 1' below my finish floor ( or elevation 0)

 

[Diesel Dan]

Since Im in a 130mph wind zone the holes need to be 4'6" deep, 24" in diameter. Im going to fill the holes up to 1' below my finish floor ( or elevation 0)

Do the posts have to be set in the concrete?
In my case the post bottom has to be 48" below grade.

I used a submersible sump pump to remove the water and lots of hand shoveling, buckets and what ever worked to clean out the holes. My immediate problem was from heavy rains and not ground water.

 

[premierjax]

Hoosier I have .06 cca marine treated poles designed for water ( or so they say) Anyone Ive talked to says they will be there for my life time and my kids life time.

 

[Joe G.]

I would be concerned with the poles rotting off from the moisture they will be sitting in. Many people here in Indiana are going to a premade concrete post with a bracket for the 4x4 post to attach to above grade. It eliminates earth to wood contact and wood post rot. Check out perma-column on google. My brother ended up tearing down a large pole barn due to most of the poles having rotted off.

Hey Mark. I'm in Batesvile as well. Just built a 36x48 and used the perma-column brackets as well. Didn't want to deal w the chance of rotted posts like you said.

 

[premierjax]

Dan, yes thats what the engineered drawings are calling for

 

[HoosierMark]

Joe G. I sent you a PM.