Anyone replacing Nicad batteries?

[Mike007]

I'm trying to decide what to do. I have two 18volt Nicad Milwaukee drills, a sawzall, circular saw and two flashlights. I used to be able to buy 4 genuine Milwaukee batteries for $200. I usually get a good 3-4 years out of them. Now the batteries are $80+ a piece. Or I can buy aftermarket replacements of unknown quality for less. There places even offering NiMH replacements that will supposedly charge properly with the standard Nicad charger. Or do I can it all and start over with NiMH tools. What is everyone else doing.

 

[bobcatdan]

I get ni cad rebuilt at interstate battery.

 

[Mike007]

I get ni cad rebuilt at interstate battery.

How do they perform? As well as genuine Milwaukee?

 

[bobcatdan]

I never had Milwaukee's rebuilt, but I have been very happy with the ones I have had done. One for my cordless grease is going on 5 years on the rebuild.

 

[timtim2008]

ive herd some take a $10 harbor freight battery, and replace the cells.

 

[neophyte]

I'm trying to decide what to do. I have two 18volt Nicad Milwaukee drills, a sawzall, circular saw and two flashlights. I used to be able to buy 4 genuine Milwaukee batteries for $200. I usually get a good 3-4 years out of them. Now the batteries are $80+ a piece. Or I can buy aftermarket replacements of unknown quality for less. There places even offering NiMH replacements that will supposedly charge properly with the standard Nicad charger. Or do I can it all and start over with NiMH tools. What is everyone else doing.

Whether the NiMH batteries will charge with the regular Milwaukee charger depends on what charger you have for the batteries. Milwaukee at one point belonged to Atlas Copco, which also owned AEG, the German power tool manufacturer. Milwaukee never sold NiMH batteries for their tools in the USA, but they did in Europe, as did the other two brands, so some of the chargers were designed to charge NiMH batteries. I'm not sure whether the older chargers with the curved top are safe for NiMH batteries, but the later squarish chargers with the angled front probably are.

 

[RedBKM]

I replaced some nicad cells in a pair of 19.2V Craftsman batteries a few years ago. I elected to only replace bad cells but within a year all the originals were bad and I had to open it again. I can now buy that battery (19.2V C3) for less than $40 from Kmart Sears so its not worth rebuilding.

If your battery is $80 each then I would try it. I would bet your battery uses "sub C" cells and you can find them online for less than 2 bucks each. 2200mAh or greater is a good size.

The batteries are networked together with solder tabs but check the top one where the terminals are. On my old Snappy drill the top battery had the terminals welded on and I never found a good way to get it loose. It is now a 10.8V battery

 

[Rust]

http://www.voltmanbatteries.com/servlet/StoreFront


Your welcome!

 

[4xdog]

http://www.voltmanbatteries.com/servlet/StoreFront


Your welcome!

Yes, many of us have seen them online. Is your thumbs up a personal recommendation?

 

[Rust]

Yes, many of us have seen them online. Is your thumbs up a personal recommendation?

I'm in the same boat as the OP.
I have alot of dead cells...and a bag full of nice Millwaukee tools I cant use.
Especially, the Hatchet sawzall. I loved that thing...

So,I'm about to send 6 - 18 volt Millwaukee batteries out.
For the price... and considering the deeper charge cycle.
I think its a win.

They sell the parts to DIY.. but I have too many projects the way it is..

 

[uart]

Same boat here as well.

Last year I rebuilt one of the packs for my old 14.4V drill with the cheapest NiCd's I could find on ebay and it only cost me about $20. It works reasonably well, though it probably lacks just a little bit of grunt compared to the originals. Overall I think it was worth doing.

Now however I've got a 24 volt GMC drill with both packs pretty much out for the count. NiCd prices have gone up and I can't see any way of rebuilding for less than about $45 per pack, with even the very cheapest ebay cells, (and considerably more if I want premium cells).

Honestly I just can't see the point of spending too much money on rebuilding old NiCd stuff when for not much more I can get a very decent new 18V (20Vmax) Li-Ion drill with two new packs. I'm the sort of guy who likes to fix old stuff and keep things going, so this really pains me, but I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the most economically rational thing to do is to throw it in the garbage and buy new. And the drill itself is basically in as good as new condition. Sob sob.

 

[Trey T]

When it comes to rechargeable batteries, I learned that it's best to replace it with Korean (samsung or LG) or **** (Panny, sony, or sanyo) cells, whether it's Ni-Cad or Li-ion.

The better alternative is to just get new tools with Li-ion batteries. These tools are smaller, lighter, more powerful, and longer runtime.

 

[ssentt]

I rebuilt 1 dewalt of mine for $35 last year using tenergy sub c's I got off of ebay. I used the tabbed version and soldiered them up. It was my test mule...so far its been great.

 

[mrborohachi]

+1 interstate batteries, they rebuild battery packs

 

[Mike007]

Well son of a *****! My Milwaukee charger says "For charging Nicad or NiMH right on it. Never noticed before.

I may give these NiMH batteries on Ebay a shot. I will buy 2, if they they hold up I'll try 2 more.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-18V-18-V..._Tools_Batteries_Chargers&hash=item4856c831ea

 

[Dennis93]

With Black Friday right around the corner you might want to consider saving up a little and switching to the m18 line. If you still have the v line it makes sense to buy batteries but seeing as you have the nicad I'm assuming your tools are pretty old. Last thing you want to do is buy all new batteries and the tools conk out on you one by one. Look on craigslist for a new set, there are a lot of apprentices and retired people selling off their tools and you might score a good deal. I have the m18 line and love it to death, plenty of power and the battery gauge is very nice to see how much you have left before you go up a ladder or under a house. The tools are also fairly cheap and will get you a new 5 year warranty.

 

[Dennis93]

You can usually get a sawzall circular and hammer drill with two lithium ions the big ones for about 350 ish. Idk about you but I almost never used my light because it drained the battery and I rarely needed it. You can also easily add tools as you go along. The impact wrench and impact driver are two I highly recommend. Nothing drives screws or lags like that little compact impact driver. And for car and heavy duty boiler mechanical stuff that impact wrench has proved it's worth. It takes the lug nuts off my tundra and back on with 3 bars left after all that.

 

[Mike007]

You make some valid points Dennis. I really like the Milwaukee tools I have. They are tough as hell. I can certainly afford new tools, and it's a business expense, but tossing good tools just seems like such a waste. I hate to do it.

 

[Trey T]

Your tool is like 3 generations behind the current ones. Milwaukee Ni-Cad/Ni-MH, V18 li-ion, M18 li-ion, and M18 li-ion fuel. The features are just significantly different from teh old one to the latest one.

If you like Milwaukee, I suggest you check out their latest M18 fuel line and their expanded accessories. It will make your decision easier with updating to new tool or not.

Does your company have policy to replace tool/equipment over a cycle period? I believe it's a good business practice to update equipment or tools every # years; tools are cheap, labor is expensive. You can probably buy the whole M18 line and make that money off within one or two days of labor.

 

[Mike007]

Your tool is like 3 generations behind the current ones. Milwaukee Ni-Cad/Ni-MH, V18 li-ion, M18 li-ion, and M18 li-ion fuel. The features are just significantly different from teh old one to the latest one.

If you like Milwaukee, I suggest you check out their latest M18 fuel line and their expanded accessories. It will make your decision easier with updating to new tool or not.

Does your company have policy to replace tool/equipment over a cycle period? I believe it's a good business practice to update equipment or tools every # years; tools are cheap, labor is expensive. You can probably buy the whole M18 line and make that money off within one or two days of labor.

Yes, Ive been using this tool line for a long time, 14+ years. Ive had a Hatchet Sawzall and circular saw for 5-6 years and they have only been lightly used. Since I'm self-employed, I just buy tools when I need them. I'm really not all that thrilled with Milwaukees newer stuff.

 

[Trey T]

^^If you're satisfied with your decision, then that's all it matters.

 

[pauls_workshop]

I wanted to ask here, has anyone taken cheap harbor freight 18 v battery packs and repurposed them to rebuild your Ryobi or Dewalt or Makita or Milwaukee etc batteries? If so, post how you did it and how well it worked. I have a bunch of dead Ryobi that I'd like to rebuild, but has to be economical. Ryobi cordless tools are generally great but their batteries die very quickly. I have some dead NiCad and some dead big fullsize LItium ones too. All after just a few years of use. - Paul

 

[neophyte]

Your tool is like 3 generations behind the current ones. Milwaukee Ni-Cad/Ni-MH, V18 li-ion, M18 li-ion, and M18 li-ion fuel. The features are just significantly different from teh old one to the latest one.

If you like Milwaukee, I suggest you check out their latest M18 fuel line and their expanded accessories. It will make your decision easier with updating to new tool or not.

Does your company have policy to replace tool/equipment over a cycle period? I believe it's a good business practice to update equipment or tools every # years; tools are cheap, labor is expensive. You can probably buy the whole M18 line and make that money off within one or two days of labor.

There are still items for sale from some manufacturers that use the older Milwaukee/AEG/Atlas Copco batteries. They tend to be specialty equipment that typically came with ultra-rapid 10-15 minute chargers. The better, later, Milwaukee/AEG batteries were manufactured in Japan and had a 2.4 Ah rating for NiCd and 3.0 Ah rating for NiMH. The battery rating plus the quick charger made the tools efficient for industrial use. The early Milwaukee Lithium tools came with batteries that had a much lower Ah rating, and longer charging time. In the case of the 24 volt tools I recall the batteries seemed ridiculously huge. A number of the German cordless tools were also really well designed as far as balance and ergonomics.

 

[mdbeck1]

I wanted to ask here, has anyone taken cheap harbor freight 18 v battery packs and repurposed them to rebuild your Ryobi or Dewalt or Makita or Milwaukee etc batteries? If so, post how you did it and how well it worked. I have a bunch of dead Ryobi that I'd like to rebuild, but has to be economical. Ryobi cordless tools are generally great but their batteries die very quickly. I have some dead NiCad and some dead big fullsize LItium ones too. All after just a few years of use. - Paul

As a test I rebuilt one of my Ryobi NiCads with an HF battery set. First you have to make sure you get the right battery from HF. Then you have to open both up and swap the battery cells. Charge it up. Two weeks later the battery with the HF guts dies. I decided that it was too much work for another NiCad...

 

[Mike007]

I ended up ordering 3 of these: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007HB0OS8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The fact that I could go NiMH 3300AH, my current chargers will work, good reviews and the price made the decision easy.

 

[Lhorn]

I wanted to ask here, has anyone taken cheap harbor freight 18 v battery packs and repurposed them to rebuild your Ryobi or Dewalt or Makita or Milwaukee etc batteries?

I gotta think that HF cells are pretty much bottom dwellers and would be pretty disappointing performance and longevity wise.

 

[pauls_workshop]

Thanks guys on the Ryobi batteries. I do want a good way to rebuild these. I really like the whole Ryobi cordless line but their batteries are just terrible. Lithium isn't any better. They don't last. Last 2-3 years and that is it. Junk. - Paul

 

[uart]

I wanted to ask here, has anyone taken cheap harbor freight 18 v battery packs and repurposed them

The results might vary depending upon the type and speed of your charger. The cheaper cells mightn't survive as higher rates of charge as would better ones.

Another reason that mdbeck1 might have gotten poor results is if you attempt to solder directly to the battery terminals without extreme caution. Ideally you need to be set up to spot weld the large nickle plated tabs that you typically find on factory assembled packs. If you do wish to solder them then accepted wisdom is that a high power soldering iron is best because it gets the joint done quickly and so heats the battery less overall.

I can't comment on HF stuff because we don't have them in Australia, but I recently rebuilt one of my 14.4 volt packs with cheap solder tab sub-c cells from ebay and it turned out ok. The new solder tab cells are much easier to work with than are the ones pulled from pre-assembled packs.

Out of interest I did have a go at soldering some cells from a dissembled pack a few days ago, and only with a fairly low power soldering iron too. It was actually some of the original cells from the 14.4 pack mentioned above. I had a couple of the pulled cells that still seemed pretty decent, so as an experiment I used them to swap out a few bad cells in another of my factory built packs. I thought it would be interesting to see how it turned out, and I did actually come up with what seems like a fairly good method.

I found that when you do have to cut and dissemble cells to get them to fit into the new pack, you should *always* try to leave the original tabs connected to the cells. In my case the cells I were removing were attached to dead ones that I didn't need, so this merely meant peeling the tabs from the dead ones and leaving the (almost) full tab attached to the good cell to be reused. In the case where you're reusing all of the cells then I'd recommend getting some really good cutters and separating tabs straight down the middle (so that both ends stay firmly spot welded to their respective battery terminal).

The reason for this is that it's *way* easier to solder to the existing tab (even if it's only half a tab) without heating up the battery than it is to solder directly to the battery terminals. I cooled my cells in the fridge (don't freeze) first and pre-tinned each of the tabs first before joining them (after thoroughly filing and cleaning and fluxing the part to be joined of course). Working towards the end of each tab I found the cells were hardly even warmed at all, even working with a fairly low powered iron.

I didn't have to rejoin the half tabs that I'm recommending above, but it should be very easy by just bridging across the ends with one of the little pre-tinned solder tabs that you can buy by the dozen very cheaply.

 

[mdbeck1]

The results might vary depending upon the type and speed of your charger. The cheaper cells mightn't survive as higher rates of charge as would better ones.

Another reason that mdbeck1 might have gotten poor results is if you attempt to solder directly to the battery terminals without extreme caution. Ideally you need to be set up to spot weld the large nickle plated tabs that you typically find on factory assembled packs. If you do wish to solder them then accepted wisdom is that a high power soldering iron is best because it gets the joint done quickly and so heats the battery less overall.

I bought the battery pack that fit my existing batteries. No soldering necessary. I seem to remember that I had to make some minor modification to the case and redo the wires to the charging tabs.

My only memory at this point is that it was basically a wasted effort.

 

[uart]

I bought the battery pack that fit my existing batteries. No soldering necessary. I seem to remember that I had to make some minor modification to the case and redo the wires to the charging tabs.

My only memory at this point is that it was basically a wasted effort.

Ok thanks for the info mdbeck.

Since you didn't have to solder directly to the terminals of the cells then heat damage to the cells couldn't be a factor. So yeah, they might be rubbish cells or at least unable to stand up to your charger.

Can you tell us roughly how many cycles it took before the pack was degraded? Also, what was the failure mode. Did you notice it losing all its charge from one day to the next, or was a drastically lower run time the first thing you noticed?

BTW. There's one other thing that could have caused an issue with the rebuild. All of these packs have a thermistor stuck somewhere there between the cells. It's used by the charger to tell if the pack is overheating and halt or modify the charge cycle if so. The thermistor is a little two wire device, usually with one wire connected to the negative and one connected to a third terminal on the pack.

Different thermistor types can vary quite a lot in terms of their exact characteristics, and the correct one to use is the one that came with the pack you're rebuilding, NOT the one from the new pack. This is an easy mistake to make, people often think that the thermistor should "go with" the batteries but it's not correct. The thermistor should "go with" the charger.

One final thing. When repacking try to get the thermistor buried right in between cells if you can, it gives a better temperature indication.

 

[mdbeck1]

Ok thanks for the info mdbeck.

Since you didn't have to solder directly to the terminals of the cells then heat damage to the cells couldn't be a factor. So yeah, they might be rubbish cells or at least unable to stand up to your charger.

Can you tell us roughly how many cycles it took before the pack was degraded? Also, what was the failure mode. Did you notice it losing all its charge from one day to the next, or was a drastically lower run time the first thing you noticed?

BTW. There's one other thing that could have caused an issue with the rebuild. All of these packs have a thermistor stuck somewhere there between the cells. It's used by the charger to tell if the pack is overheating and halt or modify the charge cycle if so. The thermistor is a little two wire device, usually with one wire connected to the negative and one connected to a third terminal on the pack.

Different thermistor types can vary quite a lot in terms of their exact characteristics, and the correct one to use is the one that came with the pack you're rebuilding, NOT the one from the new pack. This is an easy mistake to make, people often think that the thermistor should "go with" the batteries but it's not correct. The thermistor should "go with" the charger.

One final thing. When repacking try to get the thermistor buried right in between cells if you can, it gives a better temperature indication.

I don't really watch the number of charges on each battery even on the lithium ones. So I can't tell you much about how many charges but I normally using the nicads for the flashlights and radios so they get fully discharged with use.

When I selected the battery pack I made sure that it was rated for 18 volt and had a case configuration that was very close to the one it was replacing. I don't remember seeing a thermistor but could have missed it if it was buried within the batteries.

I do remember that after I got that battery put together it had a slight bulge on the case (the batteries didn't fit quite right). I also put a piece of tape on it that said HF so I could identify it easily.

I do know that it didn't last more than 3-4 months. It seems like the charger worked one day and the next time I tried to charge it the battery would not charge. The battery also seemed weak from the start so I relegated it to the radio and flashlights. Of course I did that with all the nicads because I have the Lion batteries for the tools.

 

[uart]

I do know that it didn't last more than 3-4 months. It seems like the charger worked one day and the next time I tried to charge it the battery would not charge. The battery also seemed weak from the start so I relegated it to the radio and flashlights. Of course I did that with all the nicads because I have the Lion batteries for the tools.

Ok, that's not the way they (the cells) normally fail. This may indeed just be a thermistor issue. I know that you don't remember seeing it, but it must have been in there. Your packs have a third terminal right, that is, apart from the plus and the minus. The thermistor is the *only* thing that connects to that third terminal.

If the thermistor is not one with the exact characteristics that your charger expects, then it may either grossly overestimate or underestimate the pack's temperature. If it underestimates the temperature then it may end up frying the pack. If on the other hand it overestimates the temperature then it may refuse to fully charge it. The latter appears to be the case in this instance.

If you still have the pack you should try replacing the thermistor with one from an original pack (that is, a pack designed for the charger that you're using).

 

[pauls_workshop]

This is a good discussion going on here. Maybe there is a way to use the cheap harbor freight batteries after all. Please followup once this is figured out more. If not, what are other good sources of GOOD batteries to use in the nicad 18v ryobi packs? I've read that you can only go so high on amp hours on these or they won't work right. Details and recommended replacement batteries and place to buy are what I need and I'll try some. Thx- Paul

 

[skinnymoose]

All my Nicads are pretty much ragged out, for Makita they want 70 bucks for a new battery. I switched over to the new Milwaukee fuel/brushless drill and impact. More power, more battery life and I can get batteries locally for $67. Keeping my Dewalt 18v NiCad stuff for a wile longer though. Lots of tools and lots of batteries kicking around. Seen replacements at 2 for $100. Cordless tools are nothing but a money pit. You wanna play you gotta pay.

 

[uart]

Cordless tools are nothing but a money pit. You wanna play you gotta pay.

Yeah that's what this thread is about, trying to minimize the cost. I know what you're mean though, sometimes the price of a pair of new battery packs just about equals the cost of a replacement tool.

If you've even gone and bought "genuine" replacement cartridges for an ink jet printer you'll know the feeling. Black "cha ching", Yellow "cha ching", Magenta "cha ching", Cyan "cha ching": that will be $48 please. Then you look over your shoulder and notice that printer you bought 6 months ago is now selling for $49, including ink. Hehe.

 

[BFBOB]

I'm trying to decide what to do. I have two 18volt Nicad Milwaukee drills, a sawzall, circular saw and two flashlights. I used to be able to buy 4 genuine Milwaukee batteries for $200. I usually get a good 3-4 years out of them. Now the batteries are $80+ a piece. Or I can buy aftermarket replacements of unknown quality for less. There places even offering NiMH replacements that will supposedly charge properly with the standard Nicad charger. Or do I can it all and start over with NiMH tools. What is everyone else doing.

Batteries Plus - drop 'em off, they're done in a day or two. Better than I can- the straps are spotwelded just like the originals. I have to solder. And' they do the whole job for a bit less than I can buy the cells. (sub C) They work as well and last as long as the originals. Cost, about half the price of a new pack.

 

[chewy7]

I ended up ordering 3 of these: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007HB0OS8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The fact that I could go NiMH 3300AH, my current chargers will work, good reviews and the price made the decision easy.

I have two of those batteries I use with the circular saw, 3/4" rotary hammer, drill, sawzall, light. They work great for me. It takes almost 1.5 hours to charge so i am getting full capacity out of them.
Plus you can also charge those nimh battery packs up before you totally discharge them too. Those are the best option for these older 18 volt tools out there.

 

[pauls_workshop]

Here is a new thread I put together on another way to save an old cordless tool. Take a look! - Paul

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229042

 

[Mike007]

I ended up ordering 3 of these: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007HB0OS8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The fact that I could go NiMH 3300AH, my current chargers will work, good reviews and the price made the decision easy.

Well, here is an update on my decision. These batteries are terrible. The tools have less torque, don't run as long and despite charging them the afternoon before, they will be completely dead the following morning if it's cold overnight.

 

[DenisG]

I rebuilt two of my DeWalt 14.4V batteries using tabbed Tenergy sub-Cs. I made forms with particle board to hold the cells while I soldered the battery tabs. I was worried that folding and changing the direction of the tabs might cause shorts, but I had no problems. I'm happy with the results.