Disposable Welder.

[sxk122]

I'm looking to lay up a 14 gauge square tube frame for a small go-kart. I have no welding experience, and intend this to be a learning project. At the same time I don't have any real interest at this point in welding in the future. I'm contemplating this in part because I have a coupon for $59.

http://www.harborfreight.com/welding/arc-welders/70-amp-arc-welder-68888.html

I know I'll need consumables and safety gear....

Suggestions/ pointers/ tips? I know I'll need a helmet and consumables..... as this is a very hobby grade approach, and suggested products?

Was looking at a mask such as this one.... http://www.discountsafetygear.com/p..._content=pla&gclid=CMHR8O2s8LoCFTJp7Aod0TAADw

 

[Ign]

14 ga & a baby 110 stick welder. Ouch. I fear u may walk away pulling your hair out and swear off any future welding for life.

Edit: if u insist on trying this go to LWS & try hoods; u want one w headgear u like which has positive lock in up position and still flips down easily when you nod ur head. A good, say, Huntsman will only be $10 more than the one u linked

 

[Provincial]

The problem with learning to weld with a cheap welder is that you can't determine if the problems you are having is due to poor technique or poor machine performance.

Good quality welders will give a nice steady arc and an inherently even weld deposit if the operator is reasonably uniform in technique. Cheap welders often produce a less-than-perfect bead even with perfect technique. Is the poor quality bead due to technique or machine performance? No way to tell.

That said, lots of people have learned to weld with the cheap machines. Beg or borrow some scraps of steel similar to what you will be using. Practice laying a bead on flat surfaces. When you can make a uniform bead with good penetration, start welding chunks together. When you get acceptable welds on your test pieces, you can move to a simple project. Leave the more difficult welds for later.

Always use good quality rod/wire.

Good luck!

 

[03protege]

The problem with learning to weld with a cheap welder is that you can't determine if the problems you are having is due to poor technique or poor machine performance.

Well said.

My first machine was an older model of that very Harbor Freight unit the OP is looking at. I had prior welding experience so I was able to produce some serviceable welds, the worst part on the HF unit is striking up your initial arc. Much much harder than the Lincoln units I learned on. My friends and some family that tried to weld couldn't accomplish much.

That said I have no complaints with the HF for the price you are not going to find a better welder, that's because it is the only welder at that price. If I could make a recommendation it would be to spring for the HF MIG unit that uses flux core wire (FCAW) therefore no gas is needed. MIG welding has a much lower learning curve than arc welding.

If you really want to stick with an arc welder I highly recommend keeping an eye out for a Lincoln tombstone welder. I see these on craigslist every so often for $100-$150 and they are as solid as they come.

Good Luck.

 

[TAMPAGT07]

If you really want to stick with an arc welder I highly recommend keeping an eye out for a Lincoln tombstone welder. I see these on craigslist every so often for $100-$150 and they are as solid as they come.

Good Luck.

This ^.... And buy plenty of scrap metal to play around with before you start your project...(Maybe the seller would give you a quick lesson..)

 

[Stooge]

Slightly confused by your statement of saying this will be a learning project and then go on to say, you have no interest in welding in the future.
i have a feeling i might be chastised for this on here, but if your going to be spending a few hundred anyways, and have no interest in welding later, why not just get the frame jigged up how you want it and hire one of those mobile certified welding truck guys to come through and weld it up for you. shouldnt take them too long and save money if the frame is already jigged,and if its going to be for a go-kart, (used, abused outside in the dirt/ woods) probably safer that someone who knows what they are doing and less chance of a joint not holding together.

although i think if you get a welder and get comfortable with it, you'll want to continue welding in the future

 

[creativecars]

I don’t know how you plan to power this but I would not want my learning curve to be 3" off the ground at 40 MPH with my practice welds.

I would get the welder and practice fabbing and tack the thing together. Then have someone with some experience truly weld it up, weather with your welder or another.

This way you are safe, you have fabbed up your creation and who knows you might like welding enough to keep it around for many projects in the future.

I have told people for years; with a cutting torch and a welder... I can make it fit...

 

[03protege]

LOL @ the above two responses.

I use my welder all the time for things I would have never imagine needing it for, once you have that capability it makes your life so much easier.


Also the HF auto dark helmet is like $10 more than the one your looking at when you use a coupon, it would be a worth while investment (along with a different welder) unless you want the learning curve to be STEEP.

 

[shocksandstrutz]

i see that since you are in a big city, you should be able to grab a old tombstone lincoln 225 AC for 50-75, i grabbed mine for 60 with 3 boxes of rods, all i had to get was a helmet and i got one of those at lowes for 16 bucks......while they were on clearance.....just check Craigslist ever day a couple times a day, those things are always sprouting up.....plus when you are done with it.....list it for what you paid for it

 

[Stooge]

LOL @ the above two responses..

im all for people learning to weld, its always going to be useful, a great skill to have and just an enjoyable hobby, but as someone else said, sitting a few inches off the ground and tooling around in a go kart with your practice welds might not be the greatest idea, absolutely no offense meant towards the OP. farming out welding work is pretty common, i do it for people fairly often for different reasons, home projects they may have, patch panels, , suspensions pieces or even art projects.

although i think if you get a welder and get comfortable with it, you'll want to continue welding in the future

 

[WhoWhatNow]

14ga steel with a stick welder will not be easy. 14ga steel with a **** stick welder will be an exercise in futility. If you really never want to weld anything again have someone else do it. If you really must do it yourself get the $90 HF flux core and the $39autodark helmet.

 

[03protege]

im all for people learning to weld, its always going to be useful, a great skill to have and just an enjoyable hobby, but as someone else said, sitting a few inches off the ground and tooling around in a go kart with your practice welds might not be the greatest idea, absolutely no offense meant towards the OP. farming out welding work is pretty common, i do it for people fairly often for different reasons, home projects they may have, patch panels, , suspensions pieces or even art projects.

I think what you said was great advice, people need to hear the truth whether they want to or not. I image he wants to since he posed the question.

Hopefully he doesn't intend on just getting the welder and going immediately into go-cart fab. That would be one scary ride.

 

[uart]

14ga steel with a stick welder will not be easy. 14ga steel with a **** stick welder will be an exercise in futility.

What's the thinnest gauge you can easily weld with a cheap AC stick welder like that. I've got a similar cheap stick unit and I know that any time I try to weld something too thin I just blow holes in it.

 

[The Ratchet Man]

I use my welder all the time for things I would have never imagine needing it for, once you have that capability it makes your life so much easier.

So true. Over the years I accumulated a massive pile of steel in the back corner of the garage for when I did purchase a welder. A couple months after I get one the pile is dwindling and I have 8 different projects going on...only 2 of which I actually need.

After you get a welder you not only look at what can be made, but how things that are already made can be "improved". Its an addiction I didn't know existed until I bought a welder.

 

[djjsr]

A go-kart is not a good first project.

 

[NUTTSGT]

So much good advice in this thread.

If you attempt this as a beginner with the HF arc welder, thin metal and a non auto-darkening helmet, I suggest you buy some adult beverages for the when you give up and say F' it.

 

[Banjorear]

Listen to what others are saying. It is very easy to blow through tubing with an arc welder when you don't know what you are doing.

I would even say it may be better for you to learn to MIG on a tubing project vs. arc welding. If your kid is going in the go-kart, you want to the welds to hold.

I think you know that there is a high potential for serious injury if the frame goes south due to crappy welds. Broken tubing is like a knife.

Please learn how to weld before you put your kid in this go kart.

 

[rsanter]

Look on craigslist, an older American 60s 70s 80s arc welder should only cost you about $50

Bob

 

[bsaint]

If you have no intent to keep it - 170 amp mig from HF no less. If you insist on using flux core ditch what comes with it and buy a small spool from Home Depot of the Lincoln stuff. I use this unit as a power supply all the time (I have it hooked up to a suitcase wire feeder that was 4x the cost) for welding 1-1/2" sq tubing x 11g wall.

You should leave the old american welders for hobbyist looking for a machine to have a long time.

Also what someone else said, its probably not a good idea to have a go-kart frame as your first welding project.

 

[Ign]

I also agree that once you learn to weld you WILL be interested in the future. Having the capability to build things from metal yourself is something you won't want to give up once you've experienced it. Think of it like this: when you were young and poor you probably went to the laundromat. Once you hit the "big time" you had a washer and dryer at home. Once you get used to that you never want to go to the laundromat again.

I would beg or borrow help from a friend with a good machine. See if you like it. If you decide you do, fork out the real cash for a brand name wire feed. If you're truly going to be building more projects like this wire feed is your best investment. If you were building heavier stuff I'd say get a 220 buzz box like Lincoln Tombstones as suggested. But I'm not aware of any welding school anywhere that would start you out with a 220 stick welder and 14ga. When I took welding 101 we had to shear our own coupons from scraps of 3/16" and 1/4". I always chose the 1/4" because it was easier.

 

[The Ratchet Man]

I also agree that once you learn to weld you WILL be interested in the future. Having the capability to build things from metal yourself is something you won't want to give up once you've experienced it. Think of it like this: when you were young and poor you probably went to the laundromat. Once you hit the "big time" you had a washer and dryer at home. Once you get used to that you never want to go to the laundromat again.

I liked my washer and dryer so much that I married her.

 

[Major Ramifications]

Either pay someone else to do the welding or buy a decent used wire feed welder and sell it when you are done for what you paid for it (or more).
I think you will end up keeping it because welding is such a damn handy skill.

Ideally, do you have a friend or acquaintance who could weld it for you for minimal cost?

 

[Rory Bellows]

Look on craigslist, an older American 60s 70s 80s arc welder should only cost you about $50

Bob

Second CL. Buy a stick welder. It probably will come with a helmet and rods for less than $100.

 

[arms1970]

Street pizza anyone?

 

[WhoWhatNow]

What's the thinnest gauge you can easily weld with a cheap AC stick welder like that. I've got a similar cheap stick unit and I know that any time I try to weld something too thin I just blow holes in it.

I think if you are a pretty good welder you can do 14ga with 1/16" rod with a stick welder. When I tried it with my Lincoln AC220 I couldn't get the amps low enough to not blow holes. If I when down in amps I couldn't keep the rod lit.

 

[uart]

When I tried it with my Lincoln AC220 I couldn't get the amps low enough to not blow holes. If I when down in amps I couldn't keep the rod lit.

Thanks for the info WWN. It's good to know that I'm not the only one. I've found exactly the same thing with my cheap AC stick welder. If I try to weld anything too thin then I have huge trouble sustaining an arc if the current is set low enough to not blow holes. This is exactly the problem I think the OP will come up against here.

BTW. Does anyone the exact wall thickness of 14g tube. I think it's somewhere about 2mm isn't it?

 

[Banjorear]

Thanks for the info WWN. It's good to know that I'm not the only one. I've found exactly the same thing with my cheap AC stick welder. If I try to weld anything too thin then I have huge trouble sustaining an arc if the current is set low enough to not blow holes. This is exactly the problem I think the OP will come up against here.

BTW. Does anyone the exact wall thickness of 14g tube. I think it's somewhere about 2mm isn't it?

Yep, he more than likely will. This really is a job for a MIG or TIG machine.

 

[elronin]

I have the HF 90 amp flux welder, its been good so far, the bad part is it has lots of splatter, and as everyone recommended use Lincoln wire its better stuff then what they sell at HF. I also use Lincoln anti splatter spray can which helps out. I purchased it for 89 dollars with a coupon, I've used 3 HF 2lb spools and 4 Lincoln 1lb spools with it in the past couple of years, it's still going strong. My neighbor gave me his old blue HF 220 stick welder, that's a great unit.

I do wish I had a Lincoln or a Miller welder, gonna save up for one that does mig and tig welding. For now its ok, and a good learning tool on the cheap.

Here is a Steel Gate I welded with the 90 amp flux from HF. I'm gonna do a review of it some day when I get a chance.

TheToolReviewGuy

 

[OxJaw]

Thanks for the info WWN. It's good to know that I'm not the only one. I've found exactly the same thing with my cheap AC stick welder. If I try to weld anything too thin then I have huge trouble sustaining an arc if the current is set low enough to not blow holes. This is exactly the problem I think the OP will come up against here.

BTW. Does anyone the exact wall thickness of 14g tube. I think it's somewhere about 2mm isn't it?

.07 inches/1.98 mm

It is most definitely doable but as stated already it will be difficult for a novice. I occasionally weld 14 Guage steel at work with 3/32 7018 amps set in the 45-50 amp range and usually it's a short weld stop let cool then repeat process. It is difficult but can be done.

When you get that low in amps with anything larger 1/16 inch rod you really need to watch how far away you hold the rod from the work piece, you need to be very consistent and steady with the motion/technique.

Then there is the problem of a cold weld, when you start turning the amps down like that. So you really do need to step down the rod size for something like that. Honestly though I would use something thicker thicker than 14 gauge for a go cart frame.

 

[DenisG]

Thanks for the info WWN. It's good to know that I'm not the only one. I've found exactly the same thing with my cheap AC stick welder. If I try to weld anything too thin then I have huge trouble sustaining an arc if the current is set low enough to not blow holes. This is exactly the problem I think the OP will come up against here.

BTW. Does anyone the exact wall thickness of 14g tube. I think it's somewhere about 2mm isn't it?

Here's a chart of sheet metal gauges:
http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/scales/sheetmetal.html

You're right, 14 gauge is about 2 mm thick.

I think that the general "rule of thumb" is that the rod diameter should not be bigger than the thickness of the workpiece. OP should be looking for a MIG machine. As others have said, an arc welder is the wrong tool for this job.

 

[e30bradley]

I wouldn't want that welder even if it was free. Buy a hobart handler.

 

[2oolhound]

Another thought, centred around safety of the cart (maybe some day in the distant future someone's kid is driving when a weld fails or something), - is see if there is a welding coarse at a local college or vocation school where you could build it while taking evening classes.

 

[bad12jr]

I'd personally use thicker material. Like 1/8 wall or so. A lot easier to learn and much stronger.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

No offense, but a go kart welded out of 10ga metal by a first time welder with HF tools is a recipe for the emergency room.

If you want to learn, spend the same money on a class at the community college. You will probably be able to weld your kart in class. If you like it, you can then invest in a quality welder. They really are one of those tools you find constant use for.

 

[theoldwizard1]

If you are seriously looking for a "disposable" welder, STOP LOOKING.

Find someone locally who does welding on the side. Likely they are a pro (or retired) and will give you excellent quality welds for less than the cost of a HF welder, decent helmet and consumables.

 

[zkling]

I really hate discouraging someone from learning a skill such as welding, but I'll save you a bunch of time, effort and money. Go purchase a used kart frame or project. You will be time, money, patience and safety ahead.

 

[strutaeng]

If you are seriously looking for a "disposable" welder, STOP LOOKING.

Find someone locally who does welding on the side. Likely they are a pro (or retired) and will give you excellent quality welds for less than the cost of a HF welder, decent helmet and consumables.

I can't agree more! You already said you have no interest in welding....

 

[03protege]

What's the thinnest gauge you can easily weld with a cheap AC stick welder like that. I've got a similar cheap stick unit and I know that any time I try to weld something too thin I just blow holes in it.

14 gauge was the thinnest I could do with my HF stick, 12 was easy-peasy.

If you really need to do 14-16 gauge having a little 1/4" by 1" copper bar clamped behind the weld zone helps out.

 

[03protege]

A lot of people are putting down the Harbor Freight welder but I made 200x my initial investment on the welder selling the items I made with it.

Does it ****? Yes.

Is it worth the investment if you know nothing about welding? Absolutely.

If I would have bought the Miller I had now and decided welding wasn't for me I would feel like a ******* and I would be.

 

[PugetDude]

Can't wait for the go-cart video in the WTF thread.
Might be better to start with something a bit safer, like a trailer hitch or overhead hoist....