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Disposable Welder.

Ign

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Can't wait for the go-cart video in the WTF thread.
Might be better to start with something a bit safer, like a trailer hitch or overhead hoist.... ;)

Or steering linkages or a bridge!

And while it's already been stated I don't know much about mm as I'm Amereecun but in my head (machinist speak) 14ga is 70 thou......1/16" is 62.5 thou so for purposes of general conversation 14ga is just over 1/16"
 
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Paticus

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I've used that welder before, my biggest gripe is it only has a high/low voltage setting. Which- from a beginner's perspective, makes things more difficult than they would be with a 5 way/continuous selector. This is especially crappy with thin material.
 

creativecars

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To the OP, Alot of folks on here have said what not to do, but if you want to bring your parts up this way I will show you some basic welding skills and techniques using mig and stick welding. We could get that cart up and going in one weekend. Best of luck.:thumbup:
 

OccupantRJ

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What's the thinnest gauge you can easily weld with a cheap AC stick welder like that. I've got a similar cheap stick unit and I know that any time I try to weld something too thin I just blow holes in it.

Get yourself some 1/16" welding rods. Not everything has to be welded with 1/8" rods. I used the small 6013 rods to weld the 16 gage sheet steel sides onto my trailer frame. Buy them by the pound at a local welding supply. Most of my welding is done with 3/32 rods when fabbing angle iron frames and such.
 
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sxk122

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Wow..... 3 pages overnight. I wasn't expecting more than a couple responses.

Thanks for all the constructive comments and help, I'll touch on a few points that y'all have brought up.

If insist on trying thiswhich has positive lock in up position and still flips down easily when you nod ur head. A good, say, Huntsman will only be $10 more than the one u linked

Good thought, I probably do want something a bit more easily used and comfortable.

The problem with learning to weld with a cheap welder is that you can't determine if the problems you are having is due to poor technique or poor machine performance.

That said, lots of people have learned to weld with the cheap machines. Good luck!

That was part of the reason I posted here. It seems it should work-- for someone that knows what they are doing. Unfortunantly, I'm not that someone.

Well said.

My first machine was an older model of that very Harbor Freight unit the OP is looking at. I had prior welding experience so I was able to produce some serviceable welds, the worst part on the HF unit is striking up your initial arc. Much much harder than the Lincoln units I learned on. My friends and some family that tried to weld couldn't accomplish much.

That said I have no complaints with the HF ... If I could make a recommendation it would be to spring for the HF MIG unit that uses flux core wire (FCAW) therefore no gas is needed. MIG welding has a much lower learning curve than arc welding.
Good Luck.

I might look into the MIG. I really just started with the suggestion of the welder I did due to having the coupon here.....

Slightly confused by your statement of saying this will be a learning project and then go on to say, you have no interest in welding in the future. :headscrat
i have a feeling i might be chastised for this on here, but if your going to be spending a few hundred anyways, and have no interest in welding later, why not just get the frame jigged up how you want it and hire one of those mobile certified welding truck guys to come through and weld it up for you. shouldnt take them too long and save money if the frame is already jigged,and if its going to be for a go-kart, (used, abused outside in the dirt/ woods) probably safer that someone who knows what they are doing and less chance of a joint not holding together.

although i think if you get a welder and get comfortable with it, you'll want to continue welding in the future :thumbup:

Unfortunately, I live in the city. My plan is to make a go kart styled after a morgan 3 wheeler just to play with in our neighborhood etc. Also, I do like to do things myself, and the whole (or the majority) of the reason for doing this is to do it.....


LOL @ the above two responses.

I use my welder all the time for things I would have never imagine needing it for, once you have that capability it makes your life so much easier.


Also the HF auto dark helmet is like $10 more than the one your looking at when you use a coupon, it would be a worth while investment (along with a different welder) unless you want the learning curve to be STEEP.

I'm seeing a trend.... lol. Thanks for the heads up on the helmet.

i see that since you are in a big city, you should be able to grab a old tombstone lincoln 225 AC for 50-75, i grabbed mine for 60 with 3 boxes of rods, all i had to get was a helmet and i got one of those at lowes for 16 bucks......while they were on clearance.....just check Craigslist ever day a couple times a day, those things are always sprouting up.....plus when you are done with it.....list it for what you paid for it

Should be in theory, but practice is a bit harder. I don't have time to troll craigslist during the day while I work, and I also don't have a lot of 'normal' hours outside of work, so stalking things on craigslist doesn't work well/ appeal to me usually.

I think what you said was great advice, people need to hear the truth whether they want to or not. I image he wants to since he posed the question.

Hopefully he doesn't intend on just getting the welder and going immediately into go-cart fab. That would be one scary ride.

I did post to get replies, spot on.
I may be foolish at times but I'm not a fool :lol_hitti


Listen to what others are saying.

I would even say it may be better for you to learn to MIG on a tubing project vs. arc welding.

Please learn how to weld before you put your kid in this go kart.

I'm seeing a MIG Trend here....

Also.... this is entirely for the 30 year old kid sitting in front of the computer..... and I don't tend to share my toys! In all seriousness, we don't have any children (or plans for them at this point)

I liked my washer and dryer so much that I married her. :beer:

Once I installed a ring on my Washer/ Dryer it stopped working right.......
(I also may have told the washer/ dryer my clothes were folded wrong..... when I make a mistake I make a big one....)

I have the HF 90 amp flux welder,
TheToolReviewGuy

How much experience did you have going in to using it?

Another thought, centred around safety of the cart (maybe some day in the distant future someone's kid is driving when a weld fails or something), - is see if there is a welding coarse at a local college or vocation school where you could build it while taking evening classes.

Unfortunantly not that I'm aware of, and not that I'm really able to fit into my schedule. I can work in my garage at 1 am.... can't take a class then though :(

I really hate discouraging someone from learning a skill such as welding, but I'll save you a bunch of time, effort and money. Go purchase a used kart frame or project. You will be time, money, patience and safety ahead.

That defeats the purpose. why bother at that point? Plus what I want doesn't really exist. Similar 3 wheeled karts are out there, but not quite like the Morgan.

14 gauge was the thinnest I could do with my HF stick, 12 was easy-peasy.

If you really need to do 14-16 gauge having a little 1/4" by 1" copper bar clamped behind the weld zone helps out.

I could just use larger tubing if that would make it easier...... I just thought 14 gauge due to that being the minimum suggestion on some of the plans I have seen so far. I'm using a small-ish engine, and want to keep weight down. I am 5'11 175, so the engine already has some work to do.....

Can't wait for the go-cart video in the WTF thread.
Might be better to start with something a bit safer, like a trailer hitch or overhead hoist.... ;)

I think my second project could be a harness bar for the car.... GREAT IDEA! lol

I've used that welder before, my biggest gripe is it only has a high/low voltage setting. Which- from a beginner's perspective, makes things more difficult than they would be with a 5 way/continuous selector. This is especially crappy with thin material.

What would you consider "not thin" material

To the OP, Alot of folks on here have said what not to do, but if you want to bring your parts up this way I will show you some basic welding skills and techniques using mig and stick welding. We could get that cart up and going in one weekend. Best of luck.:thumbup:

Wish I could take you up on that. If I knew someone that could help me/ teach me/ let me use their equipment that would be ideal.
 
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sxk122

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Going in a couple different direction here, but bare with me

First off, switch gears to /MIG?
--using Harbor freight as an example, the 90 amp MIG fluxcore unit would run me about $90.

Also move to slightly thicker material... that would make my life easier?

Or I could forgo making the frame out of metal....

I could just make the frame out of Ash wood in the true Morgan spirit..... I have plenty of woodworking tools! (Seriously, Morgan cars have always had wood frames)
 

zkling

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Wow..... 3 pages overnight. I wasn't expecting more than a couple responses.

Thanks for all the constructive comments and help, I'll touch on a few points that y'all have brought up.

I really hate discouraging someone from learning a skill such as welding, but I'll save you a bunch of time, effort and money. Go purchase a used kart frame or project. You will be time, money, patience and safety ahead.

That defeats the purpose. why bother at that point? Plus what I want doesn't really exist. Similar 3 wheeled karts are out there, but not quite like the Morgan.

I just have a mentality of something worth doing is worth doing right. From your first post I got the impression that you just really aren't serious about this. You want to put in minimal effort, time, and money, yet expect quality results.

For what you are doing you really should be mig welding your tubing. Even mig welding that tubing for someone that has never welded before is going to be challenging, thus you need to practice and invest time and money, before you can weld your kart frame together. The cheapest welders you are going to run across are stick welders, not good for thin wall tubing, espeically for someone that is not experienced with the process. Next up is flux cored or "gassless mig" welding. Basically a stick welder on a coil. You will get better control on thin material, but not quite as much as a gas feed mig machine. Tig would be overkill for your applications. Most production chassis like you are wanting are welded with the mig process.

A friend of mine from college built a few nice frames with a HF 220v mig and a little bottle of 75/25 gas. It is not a smooth machine to use, but it got the job done for relatively little input cost. Maybe try searching craigslist for a used small mig machine.

If you still want to build this chassis yourself, short of buying the proper equiptment, I'd try to find someone local that will weld it up for you, after you do all the fitting of the chassis tubes.

A welder is an investment IMHO. It is an oppertuinity to learn a very useful skill. If you do take the time to learn how to use a good welder, and become proficient with it I can almost guarantee you will be rearching for it years down the road. Neighbors, "friends" lots of people will want you to weld stuff for them.
 
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Danglerb

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Make some friends and do some skill trading, go kart is just not a good idea for a first project. OTOH nothing is more educational that doing something stupid.
 
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sxk122

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I just have a mentality of something worth doing is worth doing right. From your first post I got the impression that you just really aren't serious about this. You want to put in minimal effort, time, and money, yet expect quality results.

Yes and No. I want to spend minimal money (as that's all I really have), but my personal time and personal effort is near limitless. The whole point of this is for something for me to fiddle with at night without spending an arm and a leg. I can't think of anything else I'd weld, that's why I termed it "disposable welder". By the same token though, I bought the little 7" tile wetsaw at harbor freight intending to use it once install the tile in my condo, but somehow my porch at our new house is tiled now, as is the kitchen backsplash (and In HATE laying tile). I've completed many a project "the hard way" because my sweat and time are 'free' for all intents and purposes.... refinishing my kitchen cabinets or re-laminating the countertops are all examples of more time and sweat than money.
What you're saying is thicker material and flux core MIG would work a bit easier? At this point, I don't have access to 220 in my garage.
 
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sxk122

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Make some friends and do some skill trading, go kart is just not a good idea for a first project. OTOH nothing is more educational that doing something stupid.

I fail to see why it's not a good idea.
I'm not going to turn the welder on and start my first bead on the future frame. By the same token, I can't imagine it being ungodly difficult to learn how to weld.
 

zkling

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What you're saying is thicker material and flux core MIG would work a bit easier? At this point, I don't have access to 220 in my garage.

LOL @ the tile saw, a welder is the same way. All of a sudden you will seem to find things that need to be welded. :lol_hitti :thumbup:

Yes, you really want a machine that runs shielding gas. Which unfortunately adds to the cost. Welding 0.070" tubing so it is a SOLID joint, for structural, is not an easy task in the first place for someone that has no welding experience. A good 120V mig unit would suite you will. :thumbup:

If you would have put in the effort to research this in the first place you would have learned that building a go kart frame is not the place for stick welding. Again my comment about effort and seriousness on your part. No welding is not super difficult, but I think you are underestimating what it takes to make a SOLID weld on a piece of thin wall tubing. And in the process, I personally feel that you are insulting those that are professional welders. I'm not myself, but have great respect for those that are. Owning a welding machine is similar to owning a multimeter or socket set, lathe; owning does not make one a weldor, electrician, mechanic or machinist respectively.
 
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03protege

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Going in a couple different direction here, but bare with me

First off, switch gears to /MIG?
--using Harbor freight as an example, the 90 amp MIG fluxcore unit would run me about $90.

Also move to slightly thicker material... that would make my life easier?

Or I could forgo making the frame out of metal....

I could just make the frame out of Ash wood in the true Morgan spirit..... I have plenty of woodworking tools! (Seriously, Morgan cars have always had wood frames)

With thin materials MIG is king. If you think about it the smallest electrode for an arc welder is 1/16" where the smallest flux core wire for a MIG unit is .03 which is roughly half of the stick electrode. Solid wires requiring gas can be found much smaller than this.

The smaller the electrode/wire the less heat is needed and the lower the chance of blowing through the material.

Either ARC or MIG can do 14guage but it comes down to skill and equipment. With the HF arc I had serious trouble running a bead on 14 gauge without blowing through it took all of my concentration and I would still mess up. With my MIG I was welding better on thin materials right out the gate having never even used a MIG machine before.
 

03protege

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Again my comment about effort and seriousness on your part. No welding is not super difficult, but I think you are underestimating what it takes to make a SOLID weld on a piece of othin wall tubing..

Weld contamination is something that the OP should read up on for sure, It is easy to wind up with welds that look like a sponge (porus) if you are careless and obviously that is not as structurally sound as a solid weld would be.


Figure1Poorgascoverageledstocontaminationlr.jpg
 
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sxk122

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LOL @ the tile saw, a welder is the same way. All of a sudden you will seem to find things that need to be welded. :lol_hitti :thumbup:

Yes, you really want a machine that runs shielding gas. Which unfortunately adds to the cost. Welding 0.070" tubing so it is a SOLID joint, for structural, is not an easy task in the first place for someone that has no welding experience. A good 120V mig unit would suite you will. :thumbup:

If you would have put in the effort to research this in the first place you would have learned that building a go kart frame is not the place for stick welding. Again my comment about effort and seriousness on your part. No welding is not super difficult, but I think you are underestimating what it takes to make a SOLID weld on a piece of thin wall tubing. And in the process, I personally feel that you are insulting those that are professional welders. I'm not myself, but have great respect for those that are. Owning a welding machine is similar to owning a multimeter or socket set, lathe; owning does not make one a weldor, electrician, mechanic or machinist respectively.

It's not so much that I didn't not care enough to research, rather there is a base of knowledge here that can put me on the right track. Posting here was step one. I mean no disrespect. I know there is a big difference between functional (but ugly) and professional. I'll happily aim for functional yet ugly as my frame will be hidden. I own sockets and can fix my car, but I'm not a mechanic. Likewise I want to weld, but I don't expect to be a welder.
 
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sxk122

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Weld contamination is something that the OP should read up on for sure, It is easy to wind up with welds that look like a sponge (porus) if you are careless and obviously that is not as structurally sound as a solid weld would be.

Thanks. In addition to attention to detail, I also know prep is key! ( as it is with most anything)

Tonight, I've read through the materials here

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/general/hrdp_1107_mig_welding_guide/

along with the section in my popular mechanic encyclopedia (I could build the welder using their plans.... ha ) and a couple things elsewhere.

I honestly started on this 'journey' yesterday. While I may not have started on the best foot I'm generally not a blithering idiot......
 

03protege

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I honestly started on this 'journey' yesterday. While I may not have started on the best foot I'm generally not a blithering idiot......

I hope I haven't come off as treating you as one.


This isn't rocket science but there is a proper and improper way to do things. Welding really is one of those things where you can be as good or as bad as you want to be.
 
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elronin

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Here is a pic of my welds on the HF 90 amp flux welder, its an ok machine. You can notice all the splatter, I did not use the Lincoln anti splatter on it. As you can see after adjusting the speed the weld got better. As far as the heat setting, the machine only has High and Low, nothing in between. The metal used was 1/8 inch.

TheToolReviewGuy
 

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sxk122

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I hope I haven't come off as treating you as one.


This isn't rocket science but there is a proper and improper way to do things. Welding really is one of those things where you can be as good or as bad as you want to be.


You didn't and I do appreciate the input.

Can u post a pic of the coupon I think I just found my sons Christmas present

Whole slew of HF coupons here-- http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85668
I 'll post the arc welder coupon there, but it seems like the MIG is the better candidate.

Here is a pic of my welds on the HF 90 amp flux welder, its an ok machine. You can notice all the splatter, I did not use the Lincoln anti splatter on it. As you can see after adjusting the speed the weld got better. As far as the heat setting, the machine only has High and Low, nothing in between. The metal used was 1/8 inch.

TheToolReviewGuy

Looks serviceable to me, but I am a laymen. Guys? I think I'm going to try swing this for Christmas.....


On another note, a friend donated an old unused kid's bmx bike to me for the cause. The wheels ought to work well, as will the steering column. (and yes that's the $20 engine in the background)
https://scontent-b-dfw.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1477367_10100156547983825_280736790_n.jpg
 
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sxk122

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My wife may get some of the supplies for me 'for Christmas'..... like the compressor she got me year before last ;)


Poked around on craigslist locally, and I'm not finding much of anything that looks like a 'deal.

So, looking at

http://www.harborfreight.com/welding/mig-flux-welders/90-amp-flux-wire-welder-68887-8494.html
$119 + 25% coupon = $90

http://www.harborfreight.com/welding/welding-accessories/adjustable-shade-auto-darkening-welding-helmet-46092.html

$49.99 + 25% coupon= $38


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lincoln-Electric-0-030-in-1-lb-Innershield-NR211-Flux-Cored-Welding-Wire-ED031448/100341108?keyword=.030+flux+core#.Uo2oGLHnbIV

Seems like the consensus is better consumables helps a bunch.... plus, its not really any cheaper at HF. I've had great luck with their nailers using brand name brads and nails, hopefully same concept applies here....


Also did a bit more reading, these seemed the most useful as ....

http://www.hobartwelders.com/elearning/
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/articles/flux_cored_welding_basics_mild_steel/
http://www.bernardwelds.com/tips-for-avoiding-common--p152077#.Uo2rb7HnbIU
 

hoarder

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For what its worth, I've got one of the older HF blue flux wire welders. I grabbed it when they were on sale about three years ago for $59.
I've been welding all my life and own four larger welders, all Lincoln. The HF welder does just fine, I bought it because I wanted something small that ran on 110 volts. I've welded everything from a trailer hitch to several trailers with it with excellent results, yet a buddy who has a body shop background couldn't make a decent weld with it. If I were you, I'd buy the flux core welder, plus an auto helmet and practice on some scrap. I suppose since you have no other experience welding, getting used to the HF welder won't be an issue since you have nothing to compare it too.

Forget the stick welder, its not worth the hassle for what your looking to do.
The main thing that I found super important, more so than on a better machine, is that the HF welder needs a super clean surface to weld. Buy a good stainless wire brush and a grinder to clean what your welding. Since your settings are limited on the HF welder, your own hand speed will have a lot to do with the quality of the weld. You will find you must match your speed to the heat and gauge metal your welding.
 

elronin

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response to SXK 122

How much experience did you have going in to using it?


The truth not much, haven't welded since high school, which was over 23 years ago. Even then I brazed more the welded in class. I just started practicing little by little. The truth is the welds don't always come out great, but a little grinding and they clean up. I have a gate already finished up. I'll try to post a picture tomorrow.
 
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Banjorear

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You didn't and I do appreciate the input.



Whole slew of HF coupons here-- http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85668
I 'll post the arc welder coupon there, but it seems like the MIG is the better candidate.



Looks serviceable to me, but I am a laymen. Guys? I think I'm going to try swing this for Christmas.....


On another note, a friend donated an old unused kid's bmx bike to me for the cause. The wheels ought to work well, as will the steering column. (and yes that's the $20 engine in the background)
https://scontent-b-dfw.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1477367_10100156547983825_280736790_n.jpg


I would really re-consider using those BMX rims for anything with a motor. If only going straight, then maybe.


I don't want to keep sounding like a naysayer, but your kid is going in this thing.
 
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sxk122

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I would really re-consider using those BMX rims for anything with a motor. If only going straight, then maybe.
I don't want to keep sounding like a naysayer, but your kid is going in this thing.


Oh, I have no kids..... this is totally for my enjoyment! Were this for a child I would buy something, and not jeopardize their safety with my learning exercise.

Those will be the front-non powered wheels. This will be for paved surfaces. Being powered by a 2.5 hp motor, taking into account weight of me and kart, I don't expect speeds of more than maybe 15 mph. That seems within the 'limits' of what those wheels would have been designed for. I will make sure the spokes are properly tensioned.

With that added info, do you still have misgiving-- if so why?
 

outdoorsman310

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I have that welder. you can make decent welds with the harbor freight 7014 rods. the smallest ones they have.
 

GoodEnough

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"lay up" a 14 gauge frame?
Arc welder?
MIG welder?
Stick welder?

Anyone have a good link to "Welding 101"?
 

erty67

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I will say I had the HF 90 amp wire feed and tried it twice to my own failure. I came across a Lincoln weld-pak 100 and been having a blast ever since. It's much easier to work with for whatever reason. Check your local craigslist for a cheap lincoln. I think you'd be much happier if you find one. I paid $100 for mine.
 
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sxk122

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"lay up" a 14 gauge frame?
Arc welder?
MIG welder?
Stick welder?

Anyone have a good link to "Welding 101"?
Sorry my lack of knowledge bothers you.
I asked because I know I'mclueless.
If you go back, a few good links have been posted :)
 
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sxk122

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sorry, I thought you were being facetious.....

Believe it or not, earlier in the week I did try searching welding 101..... first result was the Hobart site!
 

outdoorsman310

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look up kevincaron and weldingtipsandtricks on youtube. they are very knowledgeable and have some good videos on welding
 
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