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Brightest 4' Flourescents

e-tek

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I searched, I read, I got tired.....

Simple question (LOL!): What are the brightest (non-LED) 4' flourescents made?

Secondary question: what are the brightest - including LED?

Tertiary questions - what are the most economical brightest flourescents?

I currently have a mix of "daylight" and "soft white" tubes, but they are really dull when cool and not bright enough when warm. I'm always needing extra halogen spots on my work - especially as I get OLDER....

Thanks for your input!
 
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jonathan75

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I really like my T5-HO in Cool White. The 54 Watt / bulb editions

Something like 99 lumens / watt

Adam

Yes, I was looking at one at Home Depot yesterday. Some may joke at me saying this but it looked extremely bright. Almost hurt my eyes to even look. I looked at the reflected light on my hands and it was the brightest out of everything I saw.

Just this is the part that concerned me. Why do they say 15' min height recommended? Will it be too bright with 10' ceilings? They also say "Not recommended for surface mount installations" which is what I want to do.

Here is a link.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia...High-Bay-IBC-454-MV/202838871?keyword=640-062
 
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2ManyProjects

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I searched, I read, I got tired.....

Simple question (LOL!):

You might think so, but...

What are the brightest (non-LED) 4' flourescents made?

Are you talking about the tubes themselves? Or the fixtures?

If the former, there is a F48T12VHO type http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/6357/FHO-V48CW.html which can produce ~6,600 initial lumens; but their MEAN lumens spec is not all that good at ~4,600, and they are problematic in other ways (expensive, hard to find, few fixtures support them, relatively short life, they need Hoover Dam to feed them, REALLY crappy CRI, etc.).

The brightest COMMON 4-foot tube is the F54T5HO http://www.1000bulbs.com/search/?q=F54T5HO, which typically produce about 5,000 initial lumens, and use only a nominal 54 watts to do it.

If you are referring to the fixtures, it depends on the TYPE of fixture which is appropriate to your space (in particular, the mounting height which can/must be used); but in general, going "brighter" is just a matter of cramming more tubes into each fixture (which is very rarely really a good idea; but you asked).

Secondary question: what are the brightest - including LED?

Anybody's guess; there are way too many variations out there to even begin to keep track of. But hype notwithstanding, in general, LED is NOT particularly brigher or more efficient than GOOD fluorescents.

Tertiary questions - what are the most economical brightest flourescents?

For all intents and purposes anyway, F54T5HO. Common ones do up to about 93 lumens/watt, for about $3.00 per tube.

HOWEVER... All the foregoing aside, "brighter" may or may NOT be what you really need. And at least usually, F54T5HO tubes are too bright (even when used only two at a time) to produce the best overall results unless you can mount them significantly higher than most folks can manage in a typical residential garage.

I currently have a mix of "daylight" and "soft white" tubes,

That's generally not a good idea. Pick ONE color temp you like, and stick with it.

but they are really dull when cool and not bright enough when warm. I'm always needing extra halogen spots on my work - especially as I get OLDER....

We'd need to know a LOT more about your workspace, and your current lighting, to make any sort of intelligent recommendation. But again, if this is a more-or-less normal residential garage, or anything which even remotely approaches same, the odds are you don't need BRIGHTER lights; you need MORE lights, with better placement of each one.


Yes, I was looking at one at Home Depot yesterday. Some may joke at me saying this but it looked extremely bright. Almost hurt my eyes to even look. I looked at the reflected light on my hands and it was the brightest out of everything I saw.

Just this is the part that concerned me. Why do they say 15' min height recommended? Will it be too bright with 10' ceilings?

Because that particular fixture is apparently a "High Bay" type, which means it is designed to focus most of its output straight down, with relatively little spread out to the sides. That in turn means that, to cover a decent amount of floor area, it MUST be mounted relatively high.

They also say "Not recommended for surface mount installations" which is what I want to do.

That's another matter, and it relates to heat dissipation. If a fixture is not explicitly rated for direct surface contract, you MUST leave some minimum amount of air space (could be a couple of inches, could be a couple of feet) between it and the ceiling, lest the fixture overheat and therefore die prematurely (or create far more ominous problems, which I will leave to your imagination).

 
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rlitman

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That's generally not a good idea. Pick ONE color temp you like, and stick with it.

Many years ago I used to mix one cool with one warm bulb. It was a cheap way to slightly improve CRI.
Nowadays, good high CRI bulbs are both available and affordable, and sticking to a single color temperature is the best choice on the eyes.

Do you have T12 bulbs right now? Even T8's will offer a vast improvement when cold. They have much less warmup than T12.

Also, over the life of a T12, the warm output lumens decreases steadily. Old bulbs may not seem that bright, because they aren't any more, even though they seem to work just fine. That dropoff in T8 is nowhere near as bad.

Everyone here says T5HO is too bright to use up close. The numbers say a conventional T5 is not as bright as a T8, so my tubes are all T8 now.
 

Adam McLaughlin

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In my 22 x 22 garage I have:

28 Can Lights at 750 Lumens Each
16 T5HO lamps at 5000 lumens each

Wish that I had never gone the way of the Canned Lamps; the T5HO are far, far superior

I do like to paint - needed a tremendous amount of light

Adam
 

tfi racing

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?
I currently have a mix of "daylight" and "soft white" tubes, but they are really dull when cool and not bright enough when warm. I'm always needing extra halogen spots on my work - especially as I get OLDER....
Thanks for your input!

Sounds like you still have T12's Ed,if so its time to ditch them.Post a pic of your current fixtures,just a simple re-ballast and re-lamp may be all you need,relatively cheap,simple and you can do one or two at a time as projects move in and out of the shop.:thumbup:
 

mark5767

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I went with T5 HO flush mount and they have been great for a 9 foot ceiling.

Something like this, but mine were a little less expensive IIRC...

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-2-Light-High-Output-Multi-Volt-T5-Fluorescent-Wraparound-LB-2-54T5HO-MVOLT-MVPS/203124228?N=c7p5Z1z1159x


4 lights per fixture on a lower ceiling would be super intense. 2 lights is plenty and then spread the fixtures out more than you would with regular lights.

That's the reason I went with HO's, I have junk hanging from the ceiling so I have limited space for lights. HO's give you the most light per fixture.

These also work good in cold temps, it's been way below zero here this winter and the lights still work fine, they lose a little brightness at first, but not too bad.
 

Stuart in MN

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From the photos I've seen of your shop it doesn't appear that the ceiling is especially high, so if that's the case I'd recommend looking at T8 fixtures as the best combination of price vs. brightness, as well as availability.

Many light fixture manufacturers have estimating tools on their websites these days, one I use is Lithonia. This link goes to their standard 48" long, two lamp, T8 fixture: http://www.visual-3d.com/tools/photometricViewer/default.aspx?id=14782 click on the Interior icon at the top of the page, and it sends you to a page where you can enter the room dimensions and the footcandle level you desire, and will calculate the number of fixtures and arrangement for you. For auto body repair work, 100 footcandles is a decent number. You can play around with the rest of the variables in the calculator if you want, but they are already set to typical standard values.

edit: Another thing to consider is having more light in selected task areas, like at a workbench or at machine tools.
 
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TheOtherChris

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I have 8' ceiling and my eyes passed 50 several years ago. I used to have 8' T12 in the entire garage. I now have T5 HO over the work bench and T8s everywhere else. I am happy with them.

Just my opinion but worth what I charged for it.
 

Kevin C

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Bright can be looked at two ways. Brightest source (intensity of the lamp) or highest intensity at the work surface. My take is what you really need is intensity at the work surface. We all know that T5s HOs have a higher output per lamp. As far as end results go, you can get the same illumination using more T8's (3 lamp vs 2 lamp).

One thing I noticed in my own own shop is that it's easy to get plenty of light for horizontal surfaces, vertical surfaces get a lot less. Its not noticeable until you pull a wheel and try and get as look at any parts shadowed by the fender.

This is in a shop with about 120 lumens per sq ft.

My suggestion: use whatever t5 or t8 fixtures spaced to get you at least 120 vertical lumens. On top of that add side lighting about 24" from the floor. My experiance is that ceiling mounted lights can't provide enough horizontal light relative the vertical light for working on the sides of a large object in a shop.
 
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Stuart in MN

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One thing I noticed in my own own shop is that it's easy to get plenty of light for horizontal surfaces, vertical surfaces get a lot less. Its not noticeable until you pull a wheel and try and get as look at any parts shadowed by the fender.

This can be a side effect of using a few high output light fixtures, instead of a bunch of lower output light fixtures - the total output may be the same in a bare room, but when there are things in the way you get shadows.
 

Kevin C

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This can be a side effect of using a few high output light fixtures, instead of a bunch of lower output light fixtures - the total output may be the same in a bare room, but when there are things in the way you get shadows.

Fixture location and count can make it worse, but no matter what, the ratio of vertical to horizontal can / should be improved.
 

tshetter

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Central, FL
My tool storage/shop area is 8x24 with 7.5ft ceilings. I used to have only two lights in there with 100w incandescents and was never satisfied with the light.

So I added a fixture in the center and replaced the bulbs with 200w Sylvania Service/Utility Indoor bulbs with an output of 3880 lumens.

So, 11,640 lumens for 192sqft = 60L/sqft.

Damn it is bright in there now.

Next up is the workshop that is 14x28 with 12' ceilings....not sure what I am going to do in there. There are no lights in there now.
 
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twarren

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Roseneath, Ontario Canada
I have six 8' twin tube cold start fluorescent's in a 24x36 shop with 10' ceilings.

My question, are there any real good tubes available in eight foot and do the ballasts have to be changed to use T8 tubes if available?

Warren.........
 

Adam McLaughlin

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The horizontal light thing is of prime important when shooting cars; you will see paint booths with lights on the walls shining into the sides of the cars rather than on the top of the cars.

Thank you for bringing that one up!

Adam
 

2ManyProjects

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One thing I noticed in my own own shop is that it's easy to get plenty of light for horizontal surfaces, vertical surfaces get a lot less. Its not noticeable until you pull a wheel and try and get as look at any parts shadowed by the fender.
This can be a side effect of using a few high output light fixtures, instead of a bunch of lower output light fixtures - the total output may be the same in a bare room, but when there are things in the way you get shadows.

BINGO!

I've been preaching this one for awhile. Yet, it is still somewhat surprising (and not a little disappointing) to see how many folks seem to think in terms of "the brighter each individual source, the better."

Fixture location and count can make it worse, but no matter what, the ratio of vertical to horizontal can / should be improved.

In a paint booth, or in a bay with a lift, I agree wholeheartedly. But it is often impractical to do wall-mounted lights, particularly in "regular" service bays. Besides, in the wheel-well scenario, your own body is going to form a rather devastating shadow anyway. So at least for most folks, this is where a GOOD cord-reel-mounted drop light proves its considerable worth.

Semi-random thought: Does anyone know of any fixtures (preferably fluorescent, based on F32T8 tubes) which would be suitable for embedding WITHIN a poured concrete floor? I'm thinking of something with a heavy steel or high-density plastic case, and a REALLY robust hinged or removable (for tube changes) flat glass (or maybe acrylic) lens on top which would be flush with the floor when in use, AND which could stand up to the abuse a typical shop floor routinely gets. Something like this would seem ideal for under-lift applications; but I've never seen anything along these lines "in real life".

I have six 8' twin tube cold start fluorescent's in a 24x36 shop with 10' ceilings.

My question, are there any real good tubes available in eight foot and do the ballasts have to be changed to use T8 tubes if available?

I am not aware of any 8-foot tubes which can compete with conventional 4-foot F32T8 or F54T5HO tubes in terms of either efficiency or cost-effectiveness.

 

Kevin C

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I was testing side lighting and variations of ceiling mounted lights. No "devastating" shadows, it works quite well. My comments and suggestions are based on theory and practicle experiance. To say the least, my real world testing was illuminating.

Assuming your shop is set up with an optimized lightning layout, you should try a simple test. Pull a car in one bay with a comfortable working distance from one wall (4 to 5 feet). Make light measurements from the work surfaces (horizontal and vertical).

Try the same thing on the opposite side.
 
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NewGuyInsane

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In my 22 x 22 garage I have:

28 Can Lights at 750 Lumens Each
16 T5HO lamps at 5000 lumens each

Wish that I had never gone the way of the Canned Lamps; the T5HO are far, far superior

I do like to paint - needed a tremendous amount of light

Adam

That adds up to over 200 lumens per square foot (Very Bright!):eek:

For comparison, in my 19.5 x 20.5 garage I have installed 12 T8s (2700 lumens each) for a total of 81 lumens per square foot and find it very usable.
 
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5mall5nail5

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Yes, I was looking at one at Home Depot yesterday. Some may joke at me saying this but it looked extremely bright. Almost hurt my eyes to even look. I looked at the reflected light on my hands and it was the brightest out of everything I saw.

Just this is the part that concerned me. Why do they say 15' min height recommended? Will it be too bright with 10' ceilings? They also say "Not recommended for surface mount installations" which is what I want to do.

Here is a link.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia...High-Bay-IBC-454-MV/202838871?keyword=640-062

They are bright when looked at directly, but I have T50HO in a 9.5' - 10' ceiling and they look great.


Almost done (again) by Jon Kensy, on Flickr

EXIF info for those who are curious:

amera Canon EOS 5D Mark II
Exposure 0.033 sec (1/30)
Aperture f/7.1
Focal Length 16 mm
ISO Speed 1600

It's pretty accurate to how bright it is in the room.
 

Adam McLaughlin

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In my own garage, I also painted the walls and ceilings high gloss white, even the wall cabinets, work benches and everything else I could get away with the same color, several coats of high gloss white.

After discovering my love of auto painting, I wanted something that would be easy to clean and very paint friendly.

I will add a couple of more T5HO setups to the room merely because I bought them and would rather see them on the ceiling instead of in their boxes laying against the wall.

I'll post a picture up here over the weekend.

Adam
 
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