Show off your PROTO/PLOMB Pebble Grain

[48548]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Bolster can back this up, hahaha, but I prefer the plomb versions, and only picked up the proto ones because they were cheap, but I do have a 5849, 5649, 5668, in plomb pebble. It is nice to see them because they just look like they are in great shape, and they are shown in the picture next to the snap on torque wrench. I think the 5849 is about 13~15 pounds or so.

 

[nordstar]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Bolster, my 1954 catalog shows the bigger sizes starting at 3/4" to have the full pebble finish and the smaller sizes in the round handle design. The #6545 pickle fork and the #1509 adj fender file holder handle have the pebble finish on the handle. The wrenches of this time period just have the pebble finish in the rectangles under the size markings. My Grandfathers 62-63 catalog shows the 1" ratchet with the full pebble handle but no other ratchets like that.

 

[Bolster]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Sure would be nice to have a 1948 catalog!

Indeed. I don't believe one was ever published because they were in serious legal **** around then; with an ongoing lawsuit they probably didn't know what to print or even what to call themselves. You wouldn't want that sort of crisis showing up in a catalog. According to PlomBob's site, there's a:

41-42 catalog
42-47 catalog (in two different formats; V8Garage was kind enough to let me study his).

Then we pick up under the Proto name in 1949 (I own one of those).

We are told the full pebble'd was selling between '45-'48, so I guess it was being sold under a dated wartime catalog (the 42-47 catalog) that didn't illustrate it.

 

[Bolster]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

...the #1509 adj fender file holder handle...

Wow, a pebble item I didn't know existed! Cool! Never seen one...can you post an image of that?

 

[nordstar]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Wow, a pebble item I didn't know existed! Cool! Never seen one...can you post an image of that?

I don't have a pic of the Proto one at the moment, my scanner is down. It looks just like the one in this martin tools catalog item number 1150 pg 6: Pdf Link

The indentation on the handle would have the pebble finish with the Plomb/Proto on one side and the part # on the other.

 

[Plombob]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Catalog 19-R shows pebbled ratchets and breakers, but the wrench photos are identical to catalog 18 and seem to match catalog 17 and 16-B.

As for pliers, catalogs 17, 18 and 19-R show some in the pebble design. 16-R doesn't show any pebbled pliers. (I am considering all pliers with the Plomb logo on the handles as "pebbled" since the area around the name was pebbled.)

I am guessing that they introduced the pebble design for different tools at different times.

It's clear that they reused the old wrench photos, probably to keep publishing costs down, so I can't tell from the catalogs what year they introduced pebbled wrenches.

 

[nordstar]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

I know these aren't pebble grained, but they are nice.

Two different WF-9 9/32" sliding t-bar handles. The top one is looks to have the normal finish while the bottom one has cadmium plating.

Two NOS boxes of WF-11 1/4" sockets in the 9/32" drive size. The other box is still sealed. I got all four of these items off of eBay really cheap about a year ago.

 

[Bolster]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Catalog 19-R shows pebbled ratchets and breakers, but the wrench photos are identical to catalog 18 and seem to match catalog 17 and 16-B.

Wow, I thought the only difference between 19-A and 19-R was a format size, ie, 5x7 vs 8.5x11. This is good to know. News to me! Thanks!

You hear that V8Garage? Now we have to find a 19-R!

WAIT A SECOND...pebbles are showing up as early as 1939 catalogs?!! The "doctrine" I was taught is that full pebbles (minus the flare nuts and big ratchets and other holdovers) were mfg'd from 1945-1948 only!

WOW, this forum is some seriously good education! Thanks!!

(PS: What is catalog 16-R? It's not listed on your site...)

(PPSS: I'm sure you're correct about re-using illustrations to save money. Back then, illustrations were pretty expensive to produce, not like today's offset press technology...)

 

[nordstar]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Here is the Proto set that started it all for me. This set belonged to my grandfather it is almost complete. I am missing the universal joint #5470 also the 3/4" socket is a replacement from a later date, other than that it is all original. All of the ratchets, the breaker bar and the speed handle are engraved with his name "Pete". The longer 15 3/4" ratchet #5450 didn't come with this set and was added by him. I think that this hip roof box didn't show up until the early '60s. It is shown in my 62-63 catalog but not any of the ones from the '50s.

 

[v8garage]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Wow, I thought the only difference between 19-A and 19-R was a format size, ie, 5x7 vs 8.5x11. This is good to know. So I was wrong in a previous post where I opined that 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 pebble ratchets & pliers were not illustrated in any catalog. News to me! Thanks!

You hear that V8Garage? Now we have to find a 19-R!

WAIT A SECOND...pebbles are showing up as early as 1939 catalogs?!! The "doctrine" I was taught is that full pebbles (minus the flare nuts and big ratchets and other holdovers) were mfg'd from 1945-1948 only!

WOW, this forum is some seriously good education! Thanks!!

(PS: What is catalog 16-R? It's not listed on your site...)

(PPSS: I'm sure you're correct about re-using illustrations to save money. Back then, illustrations were pretty expensive to produce, not like today's offset press technology...)

Bolster,
So the 19-R would be the catalog between 19-A and 4922M? Wouldn't that make it a 1948 catalog? Interesting, yes we are going to have to find one. I didn't think Plombob was trying to say that there were pebbles in the 1939 catalog. What I thought he was trying to say was that the wrenches were the same as 19-R catalog which he says shows pebbled drive tools but plain wrenches.
I am confused. Plombob please help us here.
Thanks,
V8

 

[v8garage]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Went back and tried to edit the previous post but for some reason it wouldn't let me. I went back and read Plombobs post again and realized he was talking about the pebbled pliers showing up in the 1939 catalog. My bad.

 

[MOPARHOUND!]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

New arrivals, some pretty, some not so pretty, but glad to have them:

Still need several........need to do an inventory..................

Right off I do know I need a 3/8, 7/16, 7/8, 1-1/8, and 1-1/4 combo wrenches, and probably some sizes I don't know exist.

 

[cruiser808]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Wow MOPAR, that's some pebbly goodness there my friend.

 

[MOPARHOUND!]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Wow MOPAR, that's some pebbly goodness there my friend.

You help make it possible, by moving some of my surplus stuff out of the Classifieds.

 

[cruiser808]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

My pleasure. Glad to be of assistance.

 

[Plombob]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

16R is my typo. It's 16B.

19R is circa 1942-1947. I have two; one says "second printing" the other says "reprint". The reprint has a number of items marked "temporarily discontinued". This may indicate it is later because a number of the tools that are redlined are ones that aren't commonly used (e.g., 11/32" sockets, square and hex sizes, special tools for older autos). But a large number of boxes were redlined too, so it might be from the war years when production was directed at the military's needs. The "second printing" has a few items marked discontinued, but not as many as the reprint.

The second printing came with a price sheet that's dated 5/20/1947.

In 19R, the drive tools are pictured pebbled, but the cover shows a ratchet and two wrenches that are not.

To muddy the waters, I discovered that catalog 19 doesn't list any pebbled tools. No date on the catalog, but there is a Buick in the background. If someone can ID the car, that will help. I've attached the image.

V8 is correct. Wrenches are plain in the illustrations.

As for pebbled tools in the earlier catalogs, I was referring solely to a specific handle type on some pliers. It's the one with the Plomb logo on the grips. The area around the logo is similar to the pebbled finish. There are no other tools in the earlier catalogs that could be called pebbled. There may be some argument over whether these pliers aught to be called pebbled, but I believe they started here.

Hope that helps!

Plombob

 

[philw]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

The Buick appears to be a 39 or 40 model. It's hard to tell with the limited picture. The body molding above the fender seemed to change in 1941.
Maybe a Buick expert can help.

 

[v8garage]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

I have a 19A catalog which has a price sheet with it dated January 1944. I would think that would indicate that the 19R catalogs were printed sometime after that date.
Catalog 19A also has the same Buick picture that Plombob posted but no pebble tools.

 

[Plombob]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Hey Moparhound,

Those rusty Plombs can be cleaned up with a 3M Scotchbrite wheel. They'll look great.

Plombob

 

[Plombob]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Thanks PhilW. Here's a copy of that picture that is a big as allowed.

Plombob

 

[B.O.V. Norway]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Edit: Wrong info.

Have a nice day.

 

[Plombob]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

I thought Buick was the only one to use those fender vents!

I looked in the Encyclopedia of American Cars and it could be either a '39 DeSoto S6 Custom Coupe or an S-7S DeLuxe coupe. The only problem is the door handle on the DeSotos in the encyclopedia aren't on the side molding. They are below the molding.

The 1941 Series 40A Buick in the book has the door handles on the moldings but the side vents look different. The picture is pretty small, so I can't tell if there's a cowl vent. Not a lot of photos from that era for Buick.

 

[B.O.V. Norway]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

I stand corrected. 1941 Chevy fits.

Hope I got it this time, lol.

Have a nice day.

 

[Bolster]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Fun exercise in car dating, but the car won't give us a catalog date, since the car could be years old when the catalog was published.

 

[B.O.V. Norway]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Hey, all good threads must stray ever so little. At least we can date the catalog to no older than 1940. (If indeed the car in question is a '41 and the 1941 model came out in 1940)

Have a nice day.

 

[Bolster]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Well, true, they do stray, and it is fun.

I think PlomBob has already determined cat 19 is in the range of 1941 to early 1942, so the car-dating exercise at least does not contradict this date.

Hey, you have a nice day, too!

 

[Bolster]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

I’m still reeling from the realization that pebbles were manufactured longer than I’d read. Alloy-artifacts says:

“The Pebble Period, 1945-1948. After the end of the war Plomb changed many of its tools to include a "pebbled" background on the flat forged areas. Tools continued to be marked with "Made in U.S.A." or the variant "MFD. U.S.A.", sometimes interchangeably on the same model…”

Based on catalog illustrations, the pebble period (if we include pliers with the pebble background) actually appears to extend from 1939 to at least 1962 [EDIT, 1967, see post below]... that's at least 23 years [EDIT, 28 years], not 3 years ... and possibly beyond (haven't looked past that date, can anyone check a post '62 Proto catalog?).

The pebble period appears to evolve significantly, starting with pliers, then drive tools, proceeding through the un-illustrated combo, DOE, and DB wrenches (which may be what alloy-artifacts was exclusively referring to), and ending with large ratchets, flare nut wrenches, and pullers.

And the line faded into the "boxed pebble" offshoot (on the wrenches at least) for who knows how long, but starting (I think) in 1948 for the Proto/Plomb transitionals, and possibly 1949 for the "box pebble" Protos that ditched the Plomb name altogether.

That's the best I can figure it, with the information I have. Corrections welcomed.

 

[philw]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Since I'm no longer looking under Buick I checked the Chevy section. 1940-1941 side vents match much better. 1942 Chevy's changed so it wouldn't be that year.

The Desoto pictures in my book show different side vents.

1940 Chevy had the door handle below the chrome trim. 1941 had the door handle on/inline with the trim with the lock cylinder below it. Also the 1940 looked to have a more narrow chrome trim than the 41 model.

I think BOV Norway has it. It looks to be a 41. I enlarge the picture with an editor and it shows silver/chrome below the trim but looks to be to small for a door handle. If it's not the door handle it must be the lock cylinder and that would fit the 41 model.

Plombob's date looks accurate. If it's a 41 then the catalog can't be older than late summer 1940 or whenever the new models appeared.

Great Plomb info in this thread!!

 

[Plombob]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Good job BOV Norway! We can date the photo to late '40 at the earliest. I'm sure they wanted a modern car in the photo so it was probably taken in 40-41. Chances are, if the photo was taken in '42, the car would be different.

BTW - Did you see the BIG oil spot under the Chevy?

This was fun! Thanks to all.

Plombob

 

[nordstar]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

I looked at my 1967 catalog from Canada CAN-67-403. The following are the only things I could see that had any pebble finish on them: Flare nut Wrench, crossarm of puller, 1" ratchet.

My Ingersoll-Rand 1980 catalog shows the 1" drive ratchet with a flat handle but I cant tell what the finish is like.

 

[v8garage]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Here are pictures of the only pebbled Plomb pliers I own. The pebbled background is worn and did not come out very good in the pictures but they are definitely pebbled.

 

[48548]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

I took some better pictures of most of the stuff I have minus some sockets and extensions and the 3/4 stuff I just bought, but here are some better pictures.

 

[Bolster]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

48548, that is just awe inspiring.

Brings tears to my eyes. (Because you own them and I don't!)

I'm saving copies of your photos for inspiration.

 

[riley.m]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

the big one is it dual drive.is it 1 inch drive.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

48548, Very impressive collection.

 

[billymade]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

48548, how do you get all your vintage plomb to look so nice? Do you de-rust and buff everything out? Regardless, everything looks awesome; their design aesthetic is so strong! Long live Art Deco!

 

[48548]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

I use brass plated I would imagine wire brush bits on my drill. It seems to work fine and also I have polished some of them out, but the brass wheels work the best I have found or wire brushed when needed. The 1" model is a female drive with a 1" male drive plug.

 

[Plombob]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

I agree with Bolster. Brings tears to my eyes 'cause I don't own them! LOL!

 

[nordstar]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Wow, your pebble Plomb ratchet collection is very impressive. You can add me in with Bolster and Plombob as being jealous and teary eyed.

 

[48548]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Bolster and I talk a lot, and his wrench collection with my ratchet collection would be one nice set... I just bought a 3/4 set on ebay which should give me another 3/4 ratchet and breaker bar. But what I am looking for is a 1/4 pebble breaker bar to round out my collection, but not sure if they ever made them.... Hmmm.... Maybe someone can help me out with that... Also I am looking for a 5468 18 inch breaker bar to add to the collection if someone wants to trade or sell let me know.