Record Vise replacement pins?

[longlivepunk]

So I got a couple of free 6" Record vises recently, both in non-working condition, one was missing a chunk from the static-jaw, the other was completely rusted and the jaw didn't move with the lead-screw. I assumed the second just needed new pins and I was right (they were both sheared completely off) but now I need to source some new pins, because the other has a bent pin as well. Any ideas on where to get good hardened steel dowel pins? I figured I'd try Acklands Grainger, Commercial Solutions, etc. but of course they're all closed today. I'll attach a few pictures for drooling over.

This is the first vise I got from a buddy whose shop broke a chunk off the static jaw making it unusable to them. Here it is torn down:

You can see the chunk missing in the last picture. So I got it welded by a guy at work who is an incredible welder, and before any comments arise about welding cast iron, we fly this guy accross the second largest country in the world as often as we can to do the welding at our machine-shop (which means he does lots of cast-iron repairs) so I'm not concerned about the quality of the weld. I then milled the face down and will have to drill and tap for one of the bolts and extract the other:

Then tilted the head of the mill and cleaned up the top a bit. It's not pretty, but it will be strong, and I got it to use, not to show off.

And this is the second vise, I got it from my work because the dynamic jaw didn't move with the lead-screw. I assumed the pins were sheared and I was right, so it'll be getting cleaned up and both will get new paint!

https://scontent-a-sea.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/r270/1503822_10152112623484581_1625814380_n.jpg

 

[PCO6]

You can get new jaws from Acklands-Grainger. They might have pins too.

 

[longlivepunk]

Awesome, thanks guys. I'll be picking some up this week. Can't wait to have these cleaned, painted, and reassembled!!

 

[454ragtop]

Regular old roll pins should work fine for that I would think. Shouldn't be much load on them, they're just pulling the jaw back. HTH, Jim

 

[longlivepunk]

Got a bit done on the vises yesterday. Wire-wheeled the machined surfaces to get rid of rust and ******, the rusty (light blue) vises jaws and replaceable jaws are in INCREDIBLY good shape! There were aluminum soft-jaws bolted on with the stock jaws that must have been there basically since the vise went into use, because under a wee bit of rust they're brand-new! Unfortunately, some genius also decided that the slide looked an awful lot like an anvil But it'll be a solid as hell vise when I'm finished.

https://scontent-b-sea.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/r270/1000011_10152130203214581_1055775592_n.jpg

I also extracted the broken bolt on the static-jaw of the vise that I had to weld and re-machine, was able to bolt the replaceable jaw on, and use a tranfer punch to mark for the hole for the second bolt (will have to drill and tap where it was welded) but it needed an "F" lettered drill-bit which I didn't have in the garage I was working in, so I'll just have to take it to work and do that there!

https://scontent-b-sea.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/r270/1016356_10152130203589581_2058994199_n.jpg

Guys, if you're welding something that's clamped in a vise, please use some anti-spatter nozzle spray to dress the vise so slag doesn't stick to it. The shop that broke that vise also clearly used to do some stick welding with material clamped in it, so I had to throw on a flap-wheel and grind off a bunch of old slag that was on it, then used the flap-wheel to dress up the jaw that I had machined a bit more, take away some sharp edges, etc.

https://scontent-a-sea.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/r270/1604464_10152130203999581_1008754079_n.jpg

Any ideas for colours? Before anyone suggests it, I'll tell you right now that I'm strongly leaning away from blue. Maybe an industrial grey or a matte black? I'll be looking for a good tough enamel ideally.

 

[larry_g]

I'm not exactly sure where the pins are in this vise, but if they are just for holding the nut in place for the opening forces I would question whether you really want to use a high strength pin. If the jaw is bound up it is much better to shear a cheap soft pin than damage some other part of the vise.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[longlivepunk]

That's a good point, Larry. I hadn't really thought of that. Maybe I'll just turn down some pins on the lathe at work. I'll be coating the entire lead-screw in nickle anti-sieze, so I can't imagine there being an issue, but I guess if worse comes to worse or if I have to remove the pins at some point, it'd be better to have the surrounding material be stronger than the pins. Thanks!

 

[lilredex]

Any ideas for colours? Before anyone suggests it, I'll tell you right now that I'm strongly leaning away from blue. Maybe an industrial grey or a matte black? I'll be looking for a good tough enamel ideally.

Just in case you change your mind....

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80347

http://alex.threlfall.me.uk/?p=63

 

[longlivepunk]

****.

Well, yesterday after a long frustrating day at work I decided to do a little work on the vise while I was still there (the one that had been welded) threw a carbide end-mill into a drillpress and cranked it up over 2,000rpm and the hole was drilled quick as can be and was beautiful! Then I figured I'd just quickly tap it and go home. As you may know, welded material is very hard, and hard material is hard to get a tap started in. Got the tap started, and it looked straight to my tired eyes. Well, it wasn't. Got in a ways, it was tight, figured it was just due to cutting the hard material (*****) and snappa-doo! So I'll have to try a tap extractor, though I have never heard anything good about them and barring that drill/break out the tap and then possibly re-drill and heli-coil. Such is life. On the plus side, this is the first tap I've broken in many years of using taps, and it was in my own property, not someone elses, so that's good!

 

[A_Pmech]

Punk,

You don't need to use a tap extractor yet.

Grab hold of the end of that thing with a small vise grip set to moderate clamping pressure. Wiggle it back and forth a bit, then unscrew it. Failing that, try the tap extractor. Failing that, knock the exposed chunk off, set it back up in the milling machine and plunge your carbide end mill though it.

 

[longlivepunk]

Haha thanks AP, I already tried some vise-grips right after it happened, didn't seem to be a go, but I'll give it another more well-rested try before showing that tap it messed with the wrong guy!

My main concern is that even if I get the tap out without any damage to the jaw, I'm still dealing with a hole that has been tapped crooked. Any suggestions for that? Also, the tap-chart suggested a letter "F" drill, so I used a 1/4" end-mill. I'm considering using a reamer to open that hole up a wee bit more or just trying to run the F-drill through, since the hole seemed a bit tight as well.

 

[larry_g]

H Also, the tap-chart suggested a letter "F" drill, so I used a 1/4" end-mill. I'm considering using a reamer to open that hole up a wee bit more or just trying to run the F-drill through, since the hole seemed a bit tight as well.

Assuming your tapping a 5/16 thread into a 1/4" hole no wonder you have a broken tap. Your tapping near 100% thread. I would suggest that you move up to a J drill oreven a 9/32" to get into a 50% thread depth or less. You have no real force on the threads so the holding power is not a high requirement.

study this thread chart and figure out when to use a 75% thread or a 50% thread will work. Basic machine work requires knowing what clearance drill to use for a tap and experience will give you understanding of when to deviate from accepted standards. Your in a tough situation there with the hard material, hand tapping, and an improper clearance hole.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[A_Pmech]

Assuming your tapping a 5/16 thread into a 1/4" hole no wonder you have a broken tap. Your tapping near 100% thread.

I missed this, but agree with larry. I would run not more than 50% engagement in that hole.

Regarding straightening the tap, if you back the tap out and run it back in holding some side pressure on it, it will bring things back into alignment. The thread will be somewhat drunken, but that doesn't matter.

 

[longlivepunk]

I love this site. The pathetic thing is I learn more on here and various places around the internet than I do at a machine shop where I'm supposedly getting "trained". Time to update the ol' resume. That tap chart is AWESOME! Thanks, Larry! Once again, you guys rock, thanks for the help!

-Eric

 

[A_Pmech]

I love this site. The pathetic thing is I learn more on here and various places around the internet than I do at a machine shop where I'm supposedly getting "trained". Time to update the ol' resume. That tap chart is AWESOME! Thanks, Larry! Once again, you guys rock, thanks for the help!

-Eric

Eric,

Try to make friends with one of the better machinists at your shop. After a time, make it clear you'd like to learn from THEM personally. If you do that, perhaps you'll obtain some results and form a friendship as well. If you make him feel like his knowledge is worth something, which it is, you'll get somewhere.

 

[Dan5speight]

eric what size tap were you using if I remember rightly my 3 record number 6 vices were a BSW thread something like 5/16 or 3/8 not 100% on size as my taps are at work right now.

 

[longlivepunk]

Eric,

Try to make friends with one of the better machinists at your shop. After a time, make it clear you'd like to learn from THEM personally. If you do that, perhaps you'll obtain some results and form a friendship as well. If you make him feel like his knowledge is worth something, which it is, you'll get somewhere.

The funny thing is I get along very well with two knowledgable journeymen, one of my first times I was on a lathe I cut two API box threads and didn't break the insert (then was pulled off the machine to do "more important things" and wound up standing around because there was nothing to do). Both of these guys would love to train me, but have been told that they are not allowed to. It's a pretty ridiculous shop, they use immigrant labour because they can't leave essentially and they treat everyone very poorly. I actually walked out today, and I have NEVER walked out of a job! My FIRST job was the Canadian Infantry, I joined at 16. I have a thick skin. The shop I'm in is poorly run and incredibly dangerous. Time for a new one. Thanks though! I really did try to make it work with this place. The managers and machinists have all told the boss how good I am, but he doesn't want to listen.

Dan, the thread is a 5/16 - 18

 

[longlivepunk]

Needless to say, it's been a beer and Linkedin kinda day.

 

[Dan5speight]

hey eric whatever you need for a re build just call me and ill try to sort out cheap as ive gt a few vices spare its nice to see england on foreign shores, as you can see im an ex service man myself this photo was taken under HMS Chatham in 2009 before she got dragged off to a ship scrap yard in Turkey long live defence cuts ** ** xxe.

 

[longlivepunk]

Thanks for the offer, Dan! These vises are complete, just needing the pins, but thanks again anyways! It's funny you mention English made vises on foreign shores, I live in basically the land of tradesmen and every shop you go to uses Record vises.

I tried to extract the tap to no avail and wound up taking AP's advice, threw it on the mill, tossed in an endmill, and slammed through it. Then I loaded up a letter "J" drill-bit and opened the hole up a bit more. Just have to try to re-tap it now, so hopefully it goes better the second time, I'll let you guys know!