Why no love for beam style torque wrenches?

[back2class]

I see tons of posts here about buying torque wrenches. I see lots of pics of tool boxes and almost without fail they have a click style. Even the less fancy tool stashes with budget tools seem to have low end click styles. I understand they are better in tight spots, but with less accuracy and much higher price and falure rate why are they almost the only torque wrench guys here have? Seems like higher price and less accuracy would be a reason for the average joe here not to go the click route.

 

[nissan_crawler]

1. Pain in the **** to try and read while you're doing it.

2. Half the time I couldn't see it if I wanted to.

3. Even if I could see it, 90% of the places I couldn't use it due to not ratcheting.

4. Clickers are more idiot proof. Pull on the handle, clicks, you stop. I've seen way too many knuckle draggers take a beam-style to torque, watch it drop, bring it up again, watch it drop, bring it up again, watch it drop, bring it...*SNAP* broken head bolt in the block.

this is the ultimate beam torque wrench, one size fits all:

http://sheldonbrown.com/tork-grip.html

 

[tatra]

i don't torque nutin..........i just back it off half turn after the bolt head "clicks" off..................

 

[autoace]

I've never even owned one. Don't see a reason to buy a beam style.

 

[Fedwrench]

I understand they are better in tight spots, but with less accuracy and much higher price and falure rate why are they almost the only torque wrench guys here have?

I'm not sure where you're getting your statistics from. Is a beam style torque wrench that much more accurate than a micrometer or split beam torque wrench? Most quality micrometer or split beam torque wrenches are good to within 4% of their scale. I suppose it is true that you don't have to get a beam type torque wrench calibrated. Used properly, I haven't really seen any significant number of torque wrench failures in my lifetime. For me , it's an issue of set it and forget it. I don't have to look at the scale dead on to ensure I hit the right torque each time.

 

[peteco]

I am not a pro. I use a clicker most of the time. But for some jobs it is quicker to use my beam type because setting the clicker, and then returning the setting to the lowest setting after use takes more time.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I have an inch LB 3/8 beam and I still use it occasionally. I also trust the 1/2" beam I used as a kid. I have no distrust of a good beam torque wrench myself, though usually these days I do use my clickers more.

 

[T56 Impala]

I have two beam style wrenches. One OLD Thorsen and one newer Craftsman. (Newer as in 1985 or so) I also have two clickers. For run of the mill stuff like lugs, I use the clicker. Its a no brainer. Set it and "click". I much prefer the beam when building an engine. I get a visual as well as the "feel" of the bolt in question.

As for the two beams. The Craftsman *****. It has a swivel handle. The beam also has a fat tip on it. It is a lot more flexible too. It just doesn't give me that touch I like. The Thorsen on the other hand is solid. Nice point on the beam. Easy to read. Excellent feedback. I know it is very old school and other types are much more accurate, but I like using them.

 

[krusty the clown]

the only place i can think of to use a beam style TW is to check rotating torque on a pinion.

IIRC the beam style was always listed as more accurate (by percentage) than a micrometer style but it leaves to much to operator error IMHO. i think i'll stick with my split beams.........

 

[Mike83]

Those beam style are tougher to use because of the handle that rocks back and forth to ensure the force is applied at the correct distance from the drive end. More accurate in theory but the real world application can be difficult esp for higher torque applications or awkward positioning.

 

[Jononon]

I wonder how many home mechanics calibrate their clicker wrench at the manufacturer's recommended intervals, have never used the tool after dropping it without recalibrating, store it in its own box, etc. ?

In theory they have many advantages over a beam. In practice, if the torque is critical, I'm not so sure

 

[T56 Impala]

Okay, so I am a complete idiot. Just how do you calibrate a clicker?

 

[Chris Adams]

I keep about 6 clickers from 1/4 to 1/2, but I still find the beam has its uses. I have found that it gives you confidence when the clicker is set at say 25 lbs and the bolt goes down farther than you expected, you use the beam and it's positive where you are.

I've had great luck with clickers but have had two fail in mid job, causing damage, pulling out the beam to test to see if the clicker is still working saves a lot of skull sweat.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Okay, so I am a complete idiot. Just how do you calibrate a clicker?

It is not something you yourself can do. You send it to someone and pay them for doing it for you. Not something a lot of home shop guys would do unless they routinely build engines or something.

Recalibration is not something you are going to get done for $20 or so, generally costs more than I would be willing to pay for the limited use my torque wrenches see. I just take good care of them from new and call it good.

 

[Jononon]

Okay, so I am a complete idiot. Just how do you calibrate a clicker?

Ideally you use a torque tester, but these are crafted from unicorn horn by elves (at least judging from the prices), so there are a number of homebrewed approaches, of which this is one.

Subsequent adjustment is a job for the professionals, but if you're more prepared to spend time rather than money you can draw up a comparison table for your own wrench.

 

[timgr]

I'm wanting a 1/4" beam type, mostly for adjusting preload on steering boxes and such that turn continuously. This would replace my 1/4" flex handle and fish scale (which works fine as long as you don't need to be too accurate).

 

[timgr]

Ideally you use a torque tester, but these are crafted from unicorn horn by elves (at least judging from the prices), so there are a number of homebrewed approaches, of which this is one.

Subsequent adjustment is a job for the professionals, but if you're more prepared to spend time rather than money you can draw up a comparison table for your own wrench.

My thoughts too.

Once you have the calibration data, you can whip up a look-up table in Excel in scant minutes.

 

[ricleh]

I check all my click-style torque wrenches periodically with a digital torque transducer that Craftsman used to sell. None of my torque wrenches has ever been out of calibration more than the specified accuracy percentage.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I check all my click-style torque wrenches periodically with a digital torque transducer that Craftsman used to sell. None of my torque wrenches has ever been out of calibration more than the specified accuracy percentage.

I have one too, I just failed to mention it because I figured most would not know what the heck I was talking about.

 

[v8garage]

I have always used a beam type except when I am on a job (Nuclear) and they have calibrated clicker types that you have to use. Just out of curiosity I asked a friend of mine that is race engine builder who is highly respected locally. He said he never uses anything other than a beam style torque wrench.

 

[MarkH]

The beam types will tolerate more abuse. For working in the farm field reparis we usually use a beam knowing that it may have some other issues but we did not jar it around enough to screw it up.

We did that with a couple clickers and did some damage. In the shop the clickers - digital ones get used. So far none of them have ever been out of calibration, cross fingers.

So there is a place for both for us. Right tool for the job.

 

[billymade]

I like hearing and feeling audible "click" when at the specified torque setting, again you don't have to look at a scale... seems every used beam style torque wrench I see; the pointer is never back at the "zero" mark on the scale... how accurate is that?

For calibration and repair of torque wrenches; you might try these guys out: http://www.teamtorque.com/

They also sell reconditioned torque wrenche, calibrated and ready to go: http://www.teamtorque.com/onlinestore/

 

[Jononon]

seems every used beam style torque wrench I see; the pointer is never back at the "zero" mark on the scale... how accurate is that?

Simply bend the pointer beam by prying it relatively to the torque beam.

 

[superautobacs]

... seems every used beam style torque wrench I see; the pointer is never back at the "zero" mark on the scale... how accurate is that?

I only have a Mastercraft beam type torque wrench that I bought 10 years ago and I noticed the same thing too. Under no loads, my needle indicates 10ft/lbs, but all I have to do is simply take that into account. In other words, if I'm doing 80ft/lbs for a lug nut, I take it up to 90ft/lbs on the dial scale.

 

[elect]

I don't like that the beam type because I often find myself in spots where I couldn't see the the beam.

 

[Tarheelgarage]

I check all my click-style torque wrenches periodically with a digital torque transducer that Craftsman used to sell. None of my torque wrenches has ever been out of calibration more than the specified accuracy percentage.

OK, who made the torque transducer sold by Sears....and where can I buy one?

 

[Uncle Buck]

OK, who made the torque transducer sold by Sears....and where can I buy one?

At this point ebay would likely be your only avenue unless you could talk someone, (not me) out of selling you theirs.

They started out something insane like $300 at Sears, and they never sold many. When they clearenced them about a year or so later they cost about$30-40 bucks, or something in that neighborhood.

 

[Joe B.]

OK, who made the torque transducer sold by Sears....and where can I buy one?

I saw them on the Sears open stock returns eBay site a few month ago it must have been ones they lost in the warehouse or something. I bought one a few years ago and I have not found it useful for actual work. I guess I'll have to try it out for calibration.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Here is the thread that discusses the Craftsman 44599 Torque measuring system.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12678

Charles

 

[Uncle Buck]

I saw them on the Sears open stock returns eBay site a few month ago it must have been ones they lost in the warehouse or something. I bought one a few years ago and I have not found it useful for actual work. I guess I'll have to try it out for calibration.

I bought mine with calibration in mind, if it is useful beyond that I will consider that iceing on the cake!

 

[Charles (in GA)]

There is nothing wrong with a beam type, just that you have to watch them, and you cannot always use them, depending on the position and access. The usually work find for something like building an engine on a stand, but in tight areas they could be a problem. Indeed, the two old Craftsman ones I have (still in the original boxes, are lifetime warranted to be accurate to within 2%). Sturtevant-Richmont makes a bending beam type that uses a flat beam, it supposedly is better than the round beam. I have to use it at work occasionally when we have to measure rotating loads, its that or a dial type.

I seem to have become addicted to torque wrenches. Indeed, I occasionally use one at home, torquing my new exhaust manifold for example, and the wheels on the car when I R&R them, but I certainly don't need all I have.

Two Craftsman 3/8 drive beam types, 0-50 ft/lbs, one 1970's and one 1990's vintage.

Two Craftsman 1/2 drive beam types, 0-150 ft/lbs as above, one '70's and one '90's era.

A Snap-On 1/2" drive dial type, 0-250 ft/lbs

A Snap-On 3/4" drive dial type, 0-600 ft/lbs

A Seekonk 1/4" drive clicker type with ratchet head, 30-150 in/lbs

A Sturtevant-Richmont clicker type, interchangeable head 30-150 ft/lbs

A Sturtevant-Richmont clicker type, interchangeable head 150-750 in/lbs

Both 3/8" and 1/2" drive heads for the above interchangeable head SR Torque wrenches

A Useless SR preset type clicker for interchangeable heads, bought it just to get the 3/8 head off of it.

A Norbar 3/4" drive clicker type, 370-1100 ft/lbs with Nm scale also.

A Gedore ratchet head clicker, 6-40 ft/lb (with Nm scale also)

A Craftsman 44599 torque measuring system electronic torque transducer and readout, 1/2" drive, 0-150 ft/lbs.

I also have seven identical (new old stock) Utica interchangeable head 40-150 in/lb clicker type torque wrenches. I have a 1/4" drive and a 3/8" drive head, but we tested one and found it had non-linear errors that could not be adjusted out of it. Never tested the remainder.

Today I went by a Pawn Shop and attempted to negotiate for a Snap-On Precision Instruments made split beam with flex head 50-250 ft/lb. The tool looks nice, the case is filthy and they have it priced at $169. I told him a new PI branded one, identical, was $205 and SO was $299, and badmouthed used torque wrenches. He noted that it "rattled" and I didn't bother to tell him that was normal (we have one at work, I just used it yesterday). I offered him "fifty or sixty" for it and he refused. Its been on the shelf for months (at least since last summer) so I'll try again in a couple of weeks and tell him to make me the best price.............. What do you guys think its worth?

Sorry to hijack the thread.

Charles

 

[peteco]

I have checked my 3/8 drive clicker a few times with my beam torque wrench. Just use a 12 point socket that a 3/8 square drive fits into (I can't recall the size). Set the clicker at a torque value, then apply torque and see if it clicks at or near the value on the beam type. Check at several different torque values. So far my clicker has been close enough that it looks like it is in OK calibration.

This is probably sufficient for my home use purposes. If I was a pro I would probably get it professionally calibrated.

 

[Joe B.]

I saw them on the Sears open stock returns eBay site a few month ago it must have been ones they lost in the warehouse or something. I bought one a few years ago and I have not found it useful for actual work. I guess I'll have to try it out for calibration.

Look I'm not making this up.....



http://cgi.ebay.com/Craftsman-Torqu...20766QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Today I went by a Pawn Shop and attempted to negotiate for a Snap-On Precision Instruments made split beam with flex head 50-250 ft/lb. The tool looks nice, the case is filthy and they have it priced at $169. I told him a new PI branded one, identical, was $205 and SO was $299, and badmouthed used torque wrenches. He noted that it "rattled" and I didn't bother to tell him that was normal (we have one at work, I just used it yesterday). I offered him "fifty or sixty" for it and he refused. Its been on the shelf for months (at least since last summer) so I'll try again in a couple of weeks and tell him to make me the best price.............. What do you guys think its worth?

Sorry to hijack the thread.

Charles

Been researching this and found a couple of Ebay sellers with brand new in the case PI branded models (C3FR250F) of this 40-250 flex head ratchet 1/2" drive split beam for just under $180 including shipping. Looks like the "all metal" model before they started putting the ergonomic plastic hand grip slipcover on it. I might just break down and buy the darn thing new. I was impressed with the one we used at work the other day. I'd seen it in the tool room on the rack, but never used it. We got it because all the other torque wrenches in that range were already checked out.

Might offer the pawn shop $75 or possibly $80 and if they don't want to move their inventory, thats tough.

Charles

 

[Treeman]

Charles,

That wrench can be had at Tooltopia for $155 delivered. If you work at an educational institution or have a student mechanic friend, you/they can order direct from the company with an educational discount and knock off another $30 dollars +/-.

I bought two for my work place one year ago, thanks to all the great advice from this forum. Thanks guys! The wrenches are awesome....easy to use, rugged, but can't be used counterclockwise (no problem).

I think the rubber handle Snap on version is made or procured by CDI. I read an internet rumor that Snap-on could not duplicate the quality of the PI split beam, tried to get PI back on board, and PI told them where to stick it. Purely rumor. The 3/8 SO split beam appears to still be PI made as do the SO dial types....maybe. Who knows, I'm just talkin out of my back end.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

That wrench can be had at Tooltopia for $155 delivered.

I think the rubber handle Snap on version is made or procured by CDI. I read an internet rumor that Snap-on could not duplicate the quality of the PI split beam, tried to get PI back on board, and PI told them where to stick it. Purely rumor. The 3/8 SO split beam appears to still be PI made as do the SO dial types....maybe. Who knows, I'm just talkin out of my back end.

I think the rubber handle is simply a latest and greatest for PI and many of the ones I'm seeing for sale at good prices are the old stock all metal ones. If you look on the PI web site, they have that same rubber handle grip on them, I doubt SO could duplicate the wrench without patent infringement, certainly not that closely.

Thanks for the Tooltopia tip. That price is so low its not worth attempting to deal with the pawn shop on the used one. My general rule of thumb is pay no more for used than half of the cheapest new price. The guy turned me down at "$50 or $60" and I cannot imagine since he had it tagged at $169 that I could get it for less than $100. This is the shop that had an antique French turn of the century automatic pistol and he gave me his "lowest" price and I countered (later, not that day) with a price $40 lower and he said he was "afraid he had too much in it" and refused to sell. That pistol is still there. Don't think they understand that sometimes you gotta keep your inventory moving and you have to cut your losses and drive on.

Had occasion to use the SO one we have at work today, again, the flex head came in real handy. The more I use it, the more I like it.

Charles

 

[billymade]

I'm with you on used torque wrenches, I always feel like I would have to factor in shipping it off to get calibrated; on the other hand, if I had access to some tool to test the torque, it might not be as big of a deal! Unfortunately, I don't have any way to test them! I've almost bought a bunch of torque wrenches but the recalibration issue, has always caused me to not purchase them.... am I the only one?

 

[Monte]

1. Pain in the **** to try and read while you're doing it.

2. Half the time I couldn't see it if I wanted to.

3. Even if I could see it, 90% of the places I couldn't use it due to not ratcheting.

4. Clickers are more idiot proof. Pull on the handle, clicks, you stop. I've seen way too many knuckle draggers take a beam-style to torque, watch it drop, bring it up again, watch it drop, bring it up again, watch it drop, bring it...*SNAP* broken head bolt in the block.

this is the ultimate beam torque wrench, one size fits all:

http://sheldonbrown.com/tork-grip.html

"Why no love for beam style torque wrenches?"

Because there is a newer high tech digital version of this tool now !!


http://cens.com/cens/supplier/14657/product/53358/BIG.jpg?***=1231921047191

Eclatorq

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Thought I'd bring this up again. Earlier in this thread I mentioned I was ordering the PI split beam torque wrenches in 3/8 and 1/2 drive flex head from Tooltopia. I ordered last friday evening late. Today, tuesday, I arrive home to find them on the back porch. Thats good service for free shipping!

Anyhow, the 3/8 drive has a round metal hand grip, apparently PI has yet to switch it to the ergo grip. I found a thing or two odd about it, the end of the handle is open, no cap, nothing. It does have a cheap plastic plug shoved way up inside of it, but nothing on the very end (see the pic). The dial is not very easy to read either, no contrast, just numbers and lines stamped into a metal dial, you align with a small notch in the window.

The 1/2 drive came with the ergo handle. They also improved the dial, it is white with black lettering, and a black line etched on the "glass" window. But for some reason, they put a heavy black arrow on one end of the black line, and the arrow covers up the numbers and marks and makes exact alignment difficult, you really have to pay attention to get it set right.

I'm not crazy about ergo handles, and I had questions about the open handle (was an end cap missing?) and the knob on the 1/2 drive seemed "ratchety" to me. I called PI and talked with a rep who told me the open end of the handle on the 3/8 drive was normal, and while talking about the not so smooth operation of the knob on the 1/2 drive I sat and played with it and found it to work fine. Just needed some fiddling with it. I mentioned the ergo handle and they said they had good and bad comments about it. I mentioned that it looked cheaper to make, they didn't have to form the square metal tube into a round shape on the handle end, just slip the ergo grip over the square tube and install a couple of screws. The rep asked me if I had ever worked there, apparently my thinking was something like their engineers. The rep also wanted to know how much I had paid Tooltopia, $155 for the 1/2 drive, and $116 for the 3/8 drive, including shipping. He was astounded, that "was cheap".

I also asked about the 4% accuracy from 20% to 100% of scale and got the same answer I got from the Norbar - Australia tech I talked with (see my last post in this thread.)

Anyhow, below are some pics of the two new Precision Instruments split beam torque wrenches. The last pic is a group photo of all of my torque wrenches (suddenly I realize how much I have gone overboard on the torque wrench collection)

Front and center, Seekonk 1/4 drive 30 to 150 in/lb micrometer type

Just behind the Seekonk is a Sturtevant-Richmont (SR) CCM150I interchangeable head micrometer type (with no head) 30 to 150 in/lb

Front right is a SR CCM150F interchangeable head micrometer type with a 1/2 drive head, 30 to 150 ft/lbs

Front and left is a SR CCM750I interchangeable head micrometer type with a 3/8 drive head, 150 to 750 in/lbs.

Second row left side, is a Snap-On dial type "Torque-O-Meter" 1/2 drive, 0 to 250 ft/lbs

Second row right side is a Snap-On dial type "Torque-O-Meter" 3/4 drive, 0 to 600 ft/lbs with no extension handle

Middle, third back is a Gedore 4507, German made 5 to 40 ft/lb with a 1/2" female square drive, micrometer type. The male push thru square drive plug is missing, but I am ordering them 1/2 to 1/2 and 1/2 to 3/8

Left side, third back is the new Precision Instruments 1/2 drive flex head split beam C3FR250F, 40 to 250 ft/lbs

Just behind the Snap-On and Gedore... is the new PI 3/8 drive flex head split beam C2FR100F, 20 to 100 ft/lbs

To the far right, past the PI 3/8 drive, sitting on top of the reddish box is a Utica interchangable head 10 to 150 in/lb micrometer type with both 1/4 and 3/8 ratchet heads. I have seven of the torque wrenches but only one of each of the heads.

Red box to the left is a early '70's vintage Craftsman 3/8 drive beam type, 0 to 50 ft/lbs

Blue box is a early '70's vintage Craftsman 1/2 drive beam type, 0 to 150 ft/lbs

Far right in the plastic package is a '90's vintage Craftsman 1/2 drive beam type, 0 to 150 ft/lbs

Also far right is a '90's vintage Craftsman 3/8 drive beam type, 0 to 50 ft/lbs

To the left, the electronic meter in the package is a Craftsman 44599 electronic torque measuring system, 0 to 150 ft/lbs

Last but certainly not least, is a English made System Norbar 3/4 drive (push thru square drive plug) ratchet, clicker type, 370 to 1100 ft/lbs with its metal case and extension handle. Over five feet long and has a nearly two foot extension handle with it

Edit: sorry 'bout the pics not being here. I had uploaded them, apparently they chose to run off with other tool pics and not hang around.

Charles

 

[beelsr]

Anyhow, below are some pics...

How far below???