Streetbu
Well-known member
You still haven't spilled the beans on the name you picked out for the business? Keeping it under wraps for awhile longer? Great job BTW and I can't wait to see the new shop finished!
Mark's Monster Garage....3800 sq ft
- Thread starter IGO2XS
- Start date
Mark, I'm with the other guys in suggesting that you reconsider the use of PVC for your air lines.
Also good suggestion for the tee with a drop tube at each outlet, I used ball valves before the outlet on the down pipe and another ball valve on the drop below the outlet for draining condensate. Copper lines, flex line from compressor to the copper, solenoid with a timer to auto drain the tank.
Here is a link to a discussion on PVC
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60109
Terry
Also good suggestion for the tee with a drop tube at each outlet, I used ball valves before the outlet on the down pipe and another ball valve on the drop below the outlet for draining condensate. Copper lines, flex line from compressor to the copper, solenoid with a timer to auto drain the tank.
Here is a link to a discussion on PVC
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60109
Terry
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Great idea and I am using it
This is the main reason why I post pictures here so you guys can keep an eye on me......its not what you know but who you know.I really want to tell you guys but I promised I would keep it a secret until April 1. We are working on the new website right now and it really looks nice. I cant wait to share it. Our Facebook page will go through a name change as well to mirrior the new name. We are merging two Facebook pages as one.
Terry, agree on your use of dual valves and the drop T. I have the drop T's now but only have the one valve at the bottom to bleed the water out. The two valves would make it very handy to work on that particular line or hose in case of needed repairs or sudden hose leaks.
ffshu
Member
I agree that the black pipe is the best way to go. I have PVC in mine and I know it's not safe and I don't like the way it looks. I also found this site that has a good read on using black pipe.
https://www.tptools.com/tech-metal-piping.dlp
I will be in Bradenton in April visiting my parents, so I will get bored with nothing to do, so I will offer free labor to lend a hand.
https://www.tptools.com/tech-metal-piping.dlp
I will be in Bradenton in April visiting my parents, so I will get bored with nothing to do, so I will offer free labor to lend a hand.
Look into spray foam insulation after you get the siding repaired. I have seen it done on many projects & recently have done some research on it. We are going to get our house done (attic & crawl spaces / basement for now) in the next week or two. It really is far superior to fiberglass.
Last year I was working in a high end resto shop where all of the air from two very large compressors is run via PVC. The lines are 23 years old with no problems in all that time.
I installed miles of Steel air line in the 70's , nearly all of it black steam pipe fron1" to 4" . It's a major hassle installing hard line like that today and seriously expensive.
Designing an air line layout should start at the user end , by working out how many outlets,droppers etc then work backwards by adding air dryer/separators ,automatic water drains etc with a definite fall in the line from the compressor end . That means running up into the roof with branches off to the out lets as down pipes. Doing this in steel would take at least two weeks solid work in a shop of your size. And Copper? do you realize that copper is more valuable than gold? Best get some serious prices before even thinking about copper. If you are considering building a spray booth,get a refrigerated air drier to run both the spray guns and the respirators . The booths air needs to be throttled down too,you don't need 120PSi in a spray gun and this case a separate air circuit just to supply clean air is a winner.
I installed miles of Steel air line in the 70's , nearly all of it black steam pipe fron1" to 4" . It's a major hassle installing hard line like that today and seriously expensive.
Designing an air line layout should start at the user end , by working out how many outlets,droppers etc then work backwards by adding air dryer/separators ,automatic water drains etc with a definite fall in the line from the compressor end . That means running up into the roof with branches off to the out lets as down pipes. Doing this in steel would take at least two weeks solid work in a shop of your size. And Copper? do you realize that copper is more valuable than gold? Best get some serious prices before even thinking about copper. If you are considering building a spray booth,get a refrigerated air drier to run both the spray guns and the respirators . The booths air needs to be throttled down too,you don't need 120PSi in a spray gun and this case a separate air circuit just to supply clean air is a winner.
I agree that the black pipe is the best way to go. I have PVC in mine and I know it's not safe and I don't like the way it looks.
I will be in Bradenton in April visiting my parents, so I will get bored with nothing to do, so I will offer free labor to lend a hand.
I just sent you a pm with my phone number. I always love to meet member of GJ so come around and we will give you the tour.
I highly recommend it in your home. I did the icining on my home and garage and it pays off. The attic space becomes "conditioned" space so no more 110 degree attics. We did block fill as well with foam.
I did have the insulation guy come by and bid my warehouse for icining. I have a few walls that need it bad. Unfortunately on this application it means I must either paint the insulation with a fire retardant paint and live with the unsightliness of it or cover it with aluminum siding. I just cant have ugliness in the building or you guys will pick on me. This is why I am looking into new siding in these areas with an attractive insulation cover on the inside. It wont have as much of the R factor of the icining but it will look good.
Last year I was working in a high end resto shop where all of the air from two very large compressors is run via PVC. The lines are 23 years old with no problems in all that time.
I installed miles of Steel air line in the 70's , nearly all of it black steam pipe fron1" to 4" . It's a major hassle installing hard line like that today and seriously expensive.
Designing an air line layout should start at the user end , by working out how many outlets,droppers etc then work backwards by adding air dryer/separators ,automatic water drains etc with a definite fall in the line from the compressor end . That means running up into the roof with branches off to the out lets as down pipes. Doing this in steel would take at least two weeks solid work in a shop of your size. And Copper? do you realize that copper is more valuable than gold? Best get some serious prices before even thinking about copper. If you are considering building a spray booth,get a refrigerated air drier to run both the spray guns and the respirators . The booths air needs to be throttled down too,you don't need 120PSi in a spray gun and this case a separate air circuit just to supply clean air is a winner.
Nice post and I am taking everything said here into consideration. Quite frankly and against some advise I am running schedual 80 pvc 20 feet high around the inside of the building and using steel pipe to drop down with valves, drip lines, and such. Rightfully there have been some warnings from the guys here and although I believe it is possible I do not think it is an active concern of mine. I have been slightly alarmed about the hazard as brought up here but right now I am proceeding with the current plan. I would be interested in recommendations on automatic water drains from you are anyone else who could help me. One thing I do not do know is drain my airlines every night. Each night I want to shut down compressors and drain the airlines.
Any recommendations on automatic drains and at what points to install them?
There are air systems that use a special plastic pipe like pex. Given the scale of your place, you'd have to weigh material costs vs labor. I'm sure copper will be the most costly material, but pretty easy to do well. The plastic air pipe is supper easy to do, but requires all sorts of special fittings. Given the long runs you have I'd bet the plastic would be the best combined labor/material cost. Steel pipe is by far the cheapest , and biggest pita, highest labor by far.
But take the PVC back. It's just not safe. Also, since you're running a commercial business officially now, you have to set up shop with the assumption that you might one day get a visit from OSHA. I'm not sure they'd go for PVC air lines.
But take the PVC back. It's just not safe. Also, since you're running a commercial business officially now, you have to set up shop with the assumption that you might one day get a visit from OSHA. I'm not sure they'd go for PVC air lines.
el Pedro
Well-known member
We've been running PVC lines in our factory for the last 16 years and never had an issue. We run four mesh welding machines, countless air benders, wire straighteners, air hand tools, and a range of pneumatic spot and bar welders. We've never had a single issue. We have an air dryer 2000ltr receiver, along with individual receivers and most of the big machines.
I think if it's done properly it shouldn't be an issue. Oh and by the way, we only recently had OH&S along with our insurance broker through the building to assess the plant and layout and everything passed.
I think if it's done properly it shouldn't be an issue. Oh and by the way, we only recently had OH&S along with our insurance broker through the building to assess the plant and layout and everything passed.
1953mercury
Well-known member
Last year I was working in a high end resto shop where all of the air from two very large compressors is run via PVC. The lines are 23 years old with no problems in all that time.
I installed miles of Steel air line in the 70's , nearly all of it black steam pipe fron1" to 4" . It's a major hassle installing hard line like that today and seriously expensive.
Designing an air line layout should start at the user end , by working out how many outlets,droppers etc then work backwards by adding air dryer/separators ,automatic water drains etc with a definite fall in the line from the compressor end . That means running up into the roof with branches off to the out lets as down pipes. Doing this in steel would take at least two weeks solid work in a shop of your size. And Copper? do you realize that copper is more valuable than gold? Best get some serious prices before even thinking about copper. If you are considering building a spray booth,get a refrigerated air drier to run both the spray guns and the respirators . The booths air needs to be throttled down too,you don't need 120PSi in a spray gun and this case a separate air circuit just to supply clean air is a winner.
I just bought a 60' roll of K copper for a $100. If it was gold I would have bought every thing they had. Mike
This is a link to a solenoid with a timer. Just hook it up to the drain at the bottom of your air tank with a discharge line, set the timer for how often and how long you want the valve to open and you shouldn't have to worry about condensation in the tank. Not sure of the brand name I used but found this one on line as an example. Mine is 115 volts.
http://peterpaul.com/2010/09/solid-...s-european-market/solidstateanddinconnector2/
http://peterpaul.com/2010/09/solid-...s-european-market/solidstateanddinconnector2/
Wingnut65
Well-known member
Nice work on the shop, Mark. A big project like that takes a lot of little bites to get done. Keep on going.
For the floor plans, if you need a PDF or JPG, send me the AutoCAD file and I'll print it for ya.
One thought on the air lines, run it past your insurance agent in a conversational way to get his opinion. They may have issues or fully accept the idea. Just a thought...
For the floor plans, if you need a PDF or JPG, send me the AutoCAD file and I'll print it for ya.
One thought on the air lines, run it past your insurance agent in a conversational way to get his opinion. They may have issues or fully accept the idea. Just a thought...
Thank you. I will probably install these in different areas around the shop.
Thanks Wingnut. I will send it over to you!! You need to plan a visit sometime when you have a chance to check the place out.
A big day today at the Monster Garage. I talked about this sometime ago but as you guys know I had a real nice forklift in the garage. Wow was it handy and served well moving pallets and stuff. It has probably been a year but the battery finally died on it and at $3400 I was not in a hurry to buy one. The forklift has sat around for all this time.......a few times I tried to sell it but with it not running I failed. With the purchase of the warehouse I knew I needed a forklift. I looked on eBay and called a few suppliers in search of a forklift. After looking at options I decided the best thing was to stick with my forklift. It is a shorty lift with a single steering tire so it maneuvers great. It has a triple mast with a high lift capacity and with side shift it handles pallets well. I decided to bite the bullet and spring for the new battery. At 1500 lbs we brought in the Bobcat and lifted the battery into place. Quite frankly I did not expect the forklift to move as I figured my next step was calling my Yale technician to get it rolling...........fingers crossed we hooked it up and the forklift works!!!!
Ok guys so I am partially giving in on using some hard pipe. This morning we picked up 100 feet of copper, 20 valves, some T's and female adapters and made all of our downpipes.
At the top is a male adapter. The pipe then drops down to a T with a valve and a female adapter for the hose reel, it then drops down to a valve to blow off any water that might collect as recommended. This is some fine solder work if you ask me!!
We had another "toy" arrive last week I havnt shared. As I looked around the garage a few weeks ago we had 4 vehicles we had installed Vintage Air in. They all would require evacuation and freon so I finally bit the bullet and purchased this new machine made by Robinair. You pretty much plug it in, attach a few hoses and push a button......it does the rest. It is nice to have the right equipment to do the right job.
Wingnut65
Well-known member
Man, that battery is a Beast! So a forklift is not like a cordless drill where it's cheaper to buy a new one than replace the battery!
You have made many GJ'ers happy with all that copper!
BTW, we are getting ready to break ground on an addition in LWR, so I will give you a call on my next trip!
You have made many GJ'ers happy with all that copper!
BTW, we are getting ready to break ground on an addition in LWR, so I will give you a call on my next trip!
rixtrix1
Well-known member
Ditto. This is going well, Mark!
I have been away from the site, and missed the debate on PVC vs. Hard Line. But I willl add a comment anyway.
I my younger days I worked in a race shop owned by a guy who also owned a large company which made Cultured Marble fixtures. (sinks, tubs, showers, etc.). Everything in the marble shops was run on air. When he bought the buildings he put in an all new air system using PVC, and was asssured that it would hold up.
It did hold up . . . for about six years. From that point on about every sixty days it would have an explosive failure. It didn't fail at a fitting, the pipe itself would fail out in the span of a run - when it fails it explodes in shards like broken glass.
Two of the three failures required stitches for the worker standing closest to the failure, and he decided to replace it all before there was a more serious injury. I was by those old shops last year, and the hard line system we installed is still rock solid after 25 years.
Everything is a trade-off of time and money - but keep in mind it is a lot easier to do now, than to go back and change it when the shop is full an running.
** Great new building by the way.
I my younger days I worked in a race shop owned by a guy who also owned a large company which made Cultured Marble fixtures. (sinks, tubs, showers, etc.). Everything in the marble shops was run on air. When he bought the buildings he put in an all new air system using PVC, and was asssured that it would hold up.
It did hold up . . . for about six years. From that point on about every sixty days it would have an explosive failure. It didn't fail at a fitting, the pipe itself would fail out in the span of a run - when it fails it explodes in shards like broken glass.
Two of the three failures required stitches for the worker standing closest to the failure, and he decided to replace it all before there was a more serious injury. I was by those old shops last year, and the hard line system we installed is still rock solid after 25 years.
Everything is a trade-off of time and money - but keep in mind it is a lot easier to do now, than to go back and change it when the shop is full an running.
** Great new building by the way.
I have been away from the site, and missed the debate on PVC vs. Hard Line. But I willl add a comment anyway.
Everything is a trade-off of time and money - but keep in mind it is a lot easier to do now, than to go back and change it when the shop is full an running.
** Great new building by the way.
thanks for the comment. I have about 80 feet of schedule 80 run high up in the building when the comments started. All the drops were changed to copper and I will be pluming the rest of the building with copper due to popular demand.
I dont want to loose sight of some of the projects. The 58 Corvette is coming along. The body as you guys saw it when we recieved it looked really nice and straight. Nice primer job on it and we were as satisfied as one can be with someone elses work. We did decide to explore and luckily we did. Under all of the beautiful straight body we found bondo and lots of it. Small cracks filled with body, large areas in the front with 1 inch of bondo, and body lines built entirely out of bondo.
At this point we are sanding all of the body down and fixing it right. All body lines and repairs made out of fiberglass as they should be. I am so proud of the guys in the shop. They really know what they are doing and they are doing it right. This really is going to be a car to be proud of when it gets done.
We are not putting wide body quarter panels on this car because the owner is a little conservative. What we are doing is stretching the quarters about 3/4 of an inch. In my opinion the stock 58 quarters look like a motorcycle fender because they dive straight down. These fenders look right and add just a touch so we will also squeeze just a little bit bigger tire on the back.
shinertx
Active member
Yes sir they work real good, we have the same one here at work when my guys do a/c work on the big trucks ( peterbilt trk ). Just hook and press start. Nice
truckin23
Banned
Just finish reading from the beginning subscribing awesome
cbacres
Well-known member
Mark,
First time I've posted, but been reading along the way. Enjoyed your first build.
My main reason of this post is to say thanks for making the decision on the hard piping, knowing how much more it cost. You're keeping you, employees and the many people that'll visit the shop safe.You're keeping in theme by using the copper, show class airline for a show class shop! You could buff and clear cost the drops, it'd really stand out.
Being I'm less than a hour from you, I hope to make it by soon.
Also, my offer from last year to cook for one of your gathers stands. I'd love to be in the company of fellow shop nuts with good food and beer.
Craig
First time I've posted, but been reading along the way. Enjoyed your first build.
My main reason of this post is to say thanks for making the decision on the hard piping, knowing how much more it cost. You're keeping you, employees and the many people that'll visit the shop safe.You're keeping in theme by using the copper, show class airline for a show class shop! You could buff and clear cost the drops, it'd really stand out.
Being I'm less than a hour from you, I hope to make it by soon.
Also, my offer from last year to cook for one of your gathers stands. I'd love to be in the company of fellow shop nuts with good food and beer.
Craig
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I am not that smart so automation is very important
Thank you!!
I like your screen name. My love of cars came from the 70's when I had a chevy van. My motif was "Keep on Truckin"
Now please, no jokes about the French Poodle!!! It was my moms dog and just because we have the same hair style is no reason for jokes.
Thanks Craig. If it wasnt for you guys I might have been all plastic. Funny you mentioned the polishing because we discussed using steel wool to sand the drops and then clear coating them. It might be really cool to do this.
You are really close so you should stop down sometime......especially when we have alot of work to accomplish. We have adopted a GJ forum member by the name of Brady. He lives here in Sarasota and comes over and helps alot. He has been a big help at the shop and has become part of the family.
941designs
Well-known member
Brady here, and thanks for letting me participate in the fun Mark! I hope to make it down there again this week, just busy with the kids over spring break. For all of you who haven't been able to meet Mark and his crew, they are great people, and I am very fortunate to glean as much knowledge from them as possible!! Top notch folks.
Wingnut65
Well-known member
So, you do take adoptions??? Only if I were closer!
Nice van. I see the edge of the traditional 'Keep On Truckin' sticker on the side!
My Dad had a '79 Chevy van, long wheelbase. I think it was the second car I learned to drive. 3 on the tree and no power steering! I got a workout with that.
Nice van. I see the edge of the traditional 'Keep On Truckin' sticker on the side!
My Dad had a '79 Chevy van, long wheelbase. I think it was the second car I learned to drive. 3 on the tree and no power steering! I got a workout with that.
Bib Overalls
Well-known member
Really enjoying this thread. Been following it from the start. 100 pages and almost 2,000 posts. All of them a pleasurable read. Looking forward to more good stuff as you make the new building your own.
W0rLDWaR4
Well-known member
That is a beast of a man cave!
Rocket
Well-known member
Your not going to believe this!
Speaking of the 70's & "Keep on Truck'n"
I was at a mates place the other day & he has managed to buy back the "truck" he built in the 70's. It was sold to New Zealand where he found it & imported it back to Oz all these years later
Toolfool
Well-known member
Mark, the first new vehicle I ever owned was a 1975 Ford Econoline shorty van. Lots of great memories, lots of miles driven. I've actually been looking for a '70's shorty van for a runaround vehicle but they're hard to find (in any kind of decent condition anyway). Keep your eyes open in Florida.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
So how many times did you burn your leg on the Thrush Side Pipes.
Been there and done that back in the '70's also. Sure wish I had hair like I had back in the '70's too.
JCQuick
Well-known member
I think I can understand that photo more than many round here as I spent my youth in the 70's and my mom blessed me with very curly hair. So much so that as I grew it longer the more I was called that type of dog. LOL
You know what they say bout dogs and owners
You know what they say bout dogs and owners
I must admit there was also a lot of traditional 1970's stuff happening inside the van too!!
Ok Brady I owe you $20 for the online comment. Looking forward to seeing you back when you have time.
I am glad to hear we havnt lost you. I have not been so good taking pictures of our work over at the warehouse. I will snap some pictues tomorow. thank you for hanging with us!
That is really cool Darin I didnt realize we had that many pages....wow. I hope we can make 200!!
Thank you friend. I had a guy ask me if I had room to store a Rolls Royce Silver Shadow in the garage. If we get that car in the garage it will really be a man cave.
Your not going to believe this!
Speaking of the 70's & "Keep on Truck'n"
I was at a mates place the other day & he has managed to buy back the "truck" he built in the 70's. It was sold to New Zealand where he found it & imported it back to Oz all these years later
That is really bad to the bone. I would imagine the back end of that bad boy has **** carpet? I would have like to have had that bad ride in the 70's.
If you like vans check out the "Van Appreciation Society" on Facebook. I belong to it and see lots of vans. You might be able to pick one up on there. Unfortunatley you are right in that most of these old vans are in bad shape and would take a tremdendous amount of bodywork to make them right.
I think I can understand that photo more than many round here as I spent my youth in the 70's and my mom blessed me with very curly hair. So much so that as I grew it longer the more I was called that type of dog. LOL
You know what they say bout dogs and owners
My hair got really long back then and sometimes I think about growing it down my back again but the wife wont have it.
So how many times did you burn your leg on the Thrush Side Pipes.
Been there and done that back in the '70's also. Sure wish I had hair like I had back in the '70's too.
I got this van when I was 16. It was completely stripped of all options.....we even ordered it passenger seat delete. I still have the original invoice from the chevrolet dealership where we bought it in 1973. Now I have clarified my age at the time there were many teenage girls in and out of this van and entrance was at the side door where many of these girls got a nice burn from those pipes.
The BendPak XPR-10A arrived today. Wow, 10,000 lbs of lift. This lift was priced the same as some of the cheaper lifts I looked at. Most of the other guys charge for shipping and BendPak ships for free. I am really excited to get this bad boy put up. I am so happy I decided to purchase the BendPak. I recieved a lot of encouragement from you guys and really happy I listened.
One thing you will notice is I sold most of the drive thru racks. It really happended by luck. Since I was recieving death threats from some of you guys on the airlines I had the local plumbing wholesaler over to my building. The general manager showed up and as soon as he walked in he said "what are you going to do with those racks"? A deal was struck and they showed up this weekend with 6 guys and took them down. I kept one big section for myself.
We starting sanding the floors in the big warehouse preparing them for paint. I used an attachment that mounted on my floor scrubber. I got it from home depot and it works like a charm. It has some metal fins on it with carbide attached to them. The floor was pretty shiney so I decided to scuff them up before paint. I will hit it with the pressure cleaner tomorrow and then prepare to paint.
If there are any questions about what kind of pipe I am using for the airlines the next two pictures should answer it
We got the build/ clean room painted a few days ago and it really looks nice. At one point I was leaving bare concrete but after further thought I just couldnt do it. You can never get concrete clean and it holds so much dust. With the epoxy floor they are so easy to sweep and mop. We like floors clean around the shop!!
Wow, 10,000 lbs of lift. This lift was priced the same as some of the cheaper lifts I looked at. Most of the other guys charge for shipping and BendPak ships for free. I am really excited to get this bad boy put up. I am so happy I decided to purchase the BendPak. I recieved a lot of encouragement from you guys and really happy I listened.
One thing you will notice is I sold most of the drive thru racks. It really happended by luck. Since I was recieving death threats from some of you guys on the airlines
I had the local plumbing wholesaler over to my building. The general manager showed up and as soon as he walked in he said "what are you going to do with those racks"? A deal was struck and they showed up this weekend with 6 guys and took them down. I kept one big section for myself.
We starting sanding the floors in the big warehouse preparing them for paint. I used an attachment that mounted on my floor scrubber. I got it from home depot and it works like a charm. It has some metal fins on it with carbide attached to them. The floor was pretty shiney so I decided to scuff them up before paint. I will hit it with the pressure cleaner tomorrow and then prepare to paint.
If there are any questions about what kind of pipe I am using for the airlines the next two pictures should answer it
We got the build/ clean room painted a few days ago and it really looks nice. At one point I was leaving bare concrete but after further thought I just couldnt do it. You can never get concrete clean and it holds so much dust. With the epoxy floor they are so easy to sweep and mop. We like floors clean around the shop!!
I appreciate the question and understand we are a little oversized at 1 1/4 copper pipe on the main runs. It probably is way over kill
We have a 175 foot run from one end to the other. What size do you think it should have been?check out the flame design on the 41 Willys. Here you see them just prior to getting sprayed. These will be "ghost flames" so it should look pretty far out when their done.
cbacres
Well-known member
The BendPak XPR-10A arrived today.
One thing you will notice is I sold most of the drive thru racks. It really happended by luck. Since I was recieving death threats from some of you guys on the airlines
We starting sanding the floors in the big warehouse preparing them for paint. I used an attachment that mounted on my floor scrubber. I got it from home depot and it works like a charm. It has some metal fins on it with carbide attached to them. The floor was pretty shiney so I decided to scuff them up before paint. I will hit it with the pressure cleaner tomorrow and then prepare to paint.
If there are any questions about what kind of pipe I am using for the airlines the next two pictures should answer it
We got the build/ clean room painted a few days ago and it really looks nice. At one point I was leaving bare concrete but after further thought I just couldnt do it. You can never get concrete clean and it holds so much dust. With the epoxy floor they are so easy to sweep and mop. We like floors clean around the shop!!
Shops looking good. What will you use to clear coat the copper? I would think a industrial or automotive clear would work fine.
I don't think 1-1/4" is too over kill, it'll give you a lot of additional capacity and flow will never be a problem. Just think a long and skinny tank!