Between 265 & 485 SQ/FT The 12-Gauge Garage
- Thread starter Jack Olsen
- Start date
Workspaces sized between 265 and 485 squarefeet.
OP
I got the new fine-grit wheel for the grinder. I'm still not sure if this or the wire wheel will be more useful, but I gave the new wheel a ring test and mounted it to see if it was true. It is, and the grinder now spins for over four minutes after I shut it off. It's possible that this is not a sign of how great the old bearings are, but instead is a sign that the bearings are just about out of grease. So time permitting, I'm going to pull the old ones at some point and source some replacements.
Speaking of grinders, here's a quick story that some of you on the board just might be able to relate to:
I've now got two good grinders: a 6-inch and a 10-inch -- and the 10-inch one is so big that it looks just a little bit clowny in my small garage.
But there's a kind of inertia to a project like this -- where you start looking for something, and you track a few different versions of it, and you think about alternatives, and you get tempted by bigger/more-powerful versions of whatever it is you're putting together. So that even when you're done -- as I am now with the bench grinders for my shop -- there's a part of you that keeps looking and keeps thinking.
So I mentioned earlier in the thread that there is the 2-hp Baldor buffer up on Ebay. Now, I don't need a buffer. But there's a 12-inch Baldor grinder with those specs that lists for about $3,000 and is, well, awesome in every way -- AND IS ALSO MUCH, MUCH TOO BIG for my two-car garage. It's also MUCH, MUCH TOO MUCH GRINDER for the sort of fabrication work I do. (Emphasis mine, because it's all true.)
But still, it's a 20-amp grinder. It's be a blast just to turn the thing on. And it's got even more power and bigger wheels (2"x12"!) than the big Milwaukee I just fixed up.
So naturally, my mind got rolling.
The same place auctioning off the 2-hp buffer is also selling a 12" Baldor grinder that is probably going to be tougher for them to sell, because it's 3-phase. At least, based on the model number, which I was (kind of) able to make out in their picture, it looks to be the 12-inch 3-phase model. The description is basically useless and the pictures are fuzzy.
But I looked at both of these and I got thinking about the possiblity of mating the 2-HP buffer to the wheel covers of the grinder -- the buffer shafts look longer, but I'll bet I could fabricate a workable spacer. I could get the buffer for $300 and the 3-phase grinder for $150 and sell off the pedestals and probably end up with a $400 12-inch monster Baldor grinder.
Which I don't really have a need for.
And which is MUCH, MUCH TOO HUGE for my garage. Take a look:
So naturally, I almost bid on both items. But only almost. As I thought about it last night, I just couldn't see a way to fit the thing into the layout of my shop -- and still couldn't come up with a grinding job in my future that the 10" Milwaukee wouldn't manage with ease.
Still, it was difficult not to bid. Fortunately, I was traveling when the first auction closed, which made it easier to finally abandon the idea.
But like I said, I'll bet I'm not the only guy here who's had that kind of brush with almost throwing a fair amount of money at a tool I neither needed nor could fit onto a bench.
Speaking of grinders, here's a quick story that some of you on the board just might be able to relate to:
I've now got two good grinders: a 6-inch and a 10-inch -- and the 10-inch one is so big that it looks just a little bit clowny in my small garage.
But there's a kind of inertia to a project like this -- where you start looking for something, and you track a few different versions of it, and you think about alternatives, and you get tempted by bigger/more-powerful versions of whatever it is you're putting together. So that even when you're done -- as I am now with the bench grinders for my shop -- there's a part of you that keeps looking and keeps thinking.
So I mentioned earlier in the thread that there is the 2-hp Baldor buffer up on Ebay. Now, I don't need a buffer. But there's a 12-inch Baldor grinder with those specs that lists for about $3,000 and is, well, awesome in every way -- AND IS ALSO MUCH, MUCH TOO BIG for my two-car garage. It's also MUCH, MUCH TOO MUCH GRINDER for the sort of fabrication work I do. (Emphasis mine, because it's all true.)
But still, it's a 20-amp grinder. It's be a blast just to turn the thing on. And it's got even more power and bigger wheels (2"x12"!) than the big Milwaukee I just fixed up.
So naturally, my mind got rolling.
The same place auctioning off the 2-hp buffer is also selling a 12" Baldor grinder that is probably going to be tougher for them to sell, because it's 3-phase. At least, based on the model number, which I was (kind of) able to make out in their picture, it looks to be the 12-inch 3-phase model. The description is basically useless and the pictures are fuzzy.
But I looked at both of these and I got thinking about the possiblity of mating the 2-HP buffer to the wheel covers of the grinder -- the buffer shafts look longer, but I'll bet I could fabricate a workable spacer. I could get the buffer for $300 and the 3-phase grinder for $150 and sell off the pedestals and probably end up with a $400 12-inch monster Baldor grinder.
Which I don't really have a need for.
And which is MUCH, MUCH TOO HUGE for my garage. Take a look:
So naturally, I almost bid on both items. But only almost. As I thought about it last night, I just couldn't see a way to fit the thing into the layout of my shop -- and still couldn't come up with a grinding job in my future that the 10" Milwaukee wouldn't manage with ease.
Still, it was difficult not to bid. Fortunately, I was traveling when the first auction closed, which made it easier to finally abandon the idea.
But like I said, I'll bet I'm not the only guy here who's had that kind of brush with almost throwing a fair amount of money at a tool I neither needed nor could fit onto a bench.
Last edited:
noelalford
Active member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2013
- Messages
- 31
Hi, Jack. We're all tool junkies here. You are not alone. I just find something to do until the auction or ad goes away. I've been struggling with this pretty often in my search for a cheap mig welder. I end up finding all sorts of stuff. I'm pretty sure I have a craigslist ad for a surface grinder open. I don't have any room for it or a real use for it but it is a pretty good deal and. . .
Outlawmws
Well-known member
See? It was only a mater of time before the innocence of Jack, the owner and founder of GJ, succumbed! 
Hingebird
Well-known member
I check craigslist for stuff that I do not need at least three times a day 
E12-535iTurbo
Well-known member
What's new? I completely accepted that allready .
On another note. Jack can you shoot me some detail shots of the profile bender you have? I've promised my inlaws to built them a nice fence door which contains a few curved tubes but profile benders identical to the one you have go for around 400-600 USD here. That's more then I'd like to spend so I'll be building one myself. I already got a rough sketch and some of the materials but it would be nice to get some examples with detailed pictures of the critical areas.
Thanks,
Jan
.On another note. Jack can you shoot me some detail shots of the profile bender you have? I've promised my inlaws to built them a nice fence door which contains a few curved tubes but profile benders identical to the one you have go for around 400-600 USD here. That's more then I'd like to spend so I'll be building one myself. I already got a rough sketch and some of the materials but it would be nice to get some examples with detailed pictures of the critical areas.
Thanks,
Jan
bazzateer
Well-known member
You should see my 'My Ebay' page of watched items! None of which I actually need!
OP
Sometimes, it's amazing what you can do in the space of your kids' naps.
Today, I was able to replace the underbelly tray on the race car that was torn open during an off-track excursion a couple of weeks back. Here it is getting duplicated (on slightly thicker aluminum.
The trick with this is that the lift would interfere with putting the thing on, so I have to raise it up and then lower it onto jack stands. But the lift comes in handy again when it's time to screw the thing into place -- like having three or four helpers holding it for you. Here you can see it with the padding that goes just above it -- which keeps it flatter and also provides padding for the lift whenever I raise the car.
Then I also dealt with a rattle in my muffler. I knew something had come loose, so I decided to risk an $8 spool of stainless steel welding wire to see if I could repair the muffler instead of replacing it.
I cut it open and it turns out that the guts had pretty much blown apart. But I used my stick welder to kind of hot glue some of it back together. Then I removed some of the pieces that weren't repairable. It might be a little louder now -- we'll see.
My stainless welding? Pretty crappy. And this cell phone picture doesn't do it any favors. But by that point I was working on the assumption that (with the mess inside) I'm probably going to have to spring for a $100 replacement pretty soon. It'll be interesting to see how long it lasts.
And then paint. The 'tailpipe' part was so scuffed up that I decided to try a high-temp aluminum finish -- so the entire thing is now painted.
And on the car:
The exhaust configuration on a 911 is kind of weird, and with my engine swap it's even weirder. But the upside to all of that business in the back is that the center of gravity stays low, even with the incongruous American muffler.
Today, I was able to replace the underbelly tray on the race car that was torn open during an off-track excursion a couple of weeks back. Here it is getting duplicated (on slightly thicker aluminum.
The trick with this is that the lift would interfere with putting the thing on, so I have to raise it up and then lower it onto jack stands. But the lift comes in handy again when it's time to screw the thing into place -- like having three or four helpers holding it for you. Here you can see it with the padding that goes just above it -- which keeps it flatter and also provides padding for the lift whenever I raise the car.
Then I also dealt with a rattle in my muffler. I knew something had come loose, so I decided to risk an $8 spool of stainless steel welding wire to see if I could repair the muffler instead of replacing it.
I cut it open and it turns out that the guts had pretty much blown apart. But I used my stick welder to kind of hot glue some of it back together. Then I removed some of the pieces that weren't repairable. It might be a little louder now -- we'll see.
My stainless welding? Pretty crappy. And this cell phone picture doesn't do it any favors. But by that point I was working on the assumption that (with the mess inside) I'm probably going to have to spring for a $100 replacement pretty soon. It'll be interesting to see how long it lasts.
And then paint. The 'tailpipe' part was so scuffed up that I decided to try a high-temp aluminum finish -- so the entire thing is now painted.
And on the car:
The exhaust configuration on a 911 is kind of weird, and with my engine swap it's even weirder. But the upside to all of that business in the back is that the center of gravity stays low, even with the incongruous American muffler.
metalhead140
Well-known member
Wait, you have a crossover muffler, where the cross pipes are flowing in opposite directions? Wouldn't it be better to have a muffler where each side was completely separated internally? I would have thought that the turbulence from the opposing flows hitting each other would be worse than not having a crossover point? Note that I'm no expert, have no experience with Porsches or boxer engines, just looks odd to me.
EDIT: I'm a big fan of both the car and the garage by the way. Read a lot of your posts both here and on pelican. Keep up the good work!
EDIT: I'm a big fan of both the car and the garage by the way.
Read a lot of your posts both here and on pelican. Keep up the good work!
Last edited:
MisteR Tee
Well-known member
Page?? I have 5 pages of stuff, most of which I'll never buy, but I like to keep an eye on things!! Plus a dozen saved searches for things I have an interest in, which generates at least 10-15 emails a day with new items being listed. No wonder my phone needs constantly charging!!
Nolift911
Well-known member
Jack - what tires are you running? 17's are getting pretty scare in performance rubber...looking for some R-compounds that I can run on the street for my 911...
Modern Jess
Well-known member
Yikes! That's a lot more damage than I had imagined when you first posted the "excursion" video.
OP
Thanks, guys!
Thanks. I'm no expert on the black art of exhaust management. But I've really liked the Magnaflow -- both for the dyno and the sound. It's disappointing to see the guts coming apart like this. There's definitely some turbulance going on -- my car runs close to redline a lot. Or maybe this is what some decel backfiring can do?
Here's what the internals are supposed to look like:
They're Nitto NT01s. They're not as fast as other R-compounds, but they can be driven on the street and their useful lifespan can be measured in months, not hours.
It's very thin aluminum. The rock hit didn't do any damage to the blue padding above it. But it was allowing air to get up through the opening, after that, which made the thing counterproductive. The new aluminum weighs about a pound more, but is thicker and stronger.
Wait, you have a crossover muffler, where the cross pipes are flowing in opposite directions? Wouldn't it be better to have a muffler where each side was completely separated internally? I would have thought that the turbulence from the opposing flows hitting each other would be worse than not having a crossover point? Note that I'm no expert, have no experience with Porsches or boxer engines, just looks odd to me.
EDIT: I'm a big fan of both the car and the garage by the way.
Thanks. I'm no expert on the black art of exhaust management. But I've really liked the Magnaflow -- both for the dyno and the sound. It's disappointing to see the guts coming apart like this. There's definitely some turbulance going on -- my car runs close to redline a lot. Or maybe this is what some decel backfiring can do?
Here's what the internals are supposed to look like:
They're Nitto NT01s. They're not as fast as other R-compounds, but they can be driven on the street and their useful lifespan can be measured in months, not hours.
It's very thin aluminum. The rock hit didn't do any damage to the blue padding above it. But it was allowing air to get up through the opening, after that, which made the thing counterproductive. The new aluminum weighs about a pound more, but is thicker and stronger.
Fast914
Well-known member
Hi Jack, I am in the process of building my new garage (18x30)...old one will come down at end of month and yes, I will get my thread going but I had to say this picture is just freaking amazing...man that car gets me....just tough as nails! (if not evident, the pick looking at the back end re your work on the muffler.
I am rebuilding / restoring my 914 and your journey here on GJ has given me so many ideas both car and of course garage. Now I just need to figure out how to add pics and I can get going on mine. Grant
I am rebuilding / restoring my 914 and your journey here on GJ has given me so many ideas both car and of course garage. Now I just need to figure out how to add pics and I can get going on mine. Grant
great white tj
Well-known member
Jack, you have a CJ for the Off Road stuff....
metalhead140
Well-known member
Thanks. I'm no expert on the black art of exhaust management. But I've really liked the Magnaflow -- both for the dyno and the sound. It's disappointing to see the guts coming apart like this. There's definitely some turbulance going on -- my car runs close to redline a lot. Or maybe this is what some decel backfiring can do?
Here's what the internals are supposed to look like:
I'm no expert either, by any means, and as I say I have no experience with Porsches. But my figuring is that in a normal configuration (exhaust flowing from front or mid engine to rear) the flow through that muffler would look like this:
Whereas in your car it will look like this:
And I can't help but think there will be huge turbulence where those flows are hitting each other head on in the middle of the crossover? Is this a normal setup for Porsche exhaust systems?
OP
It's a good question. I remember being told it was okay. But I just sent an email to Magnaflow to double-check.
Jon69RagTop
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2014
- Messages
- 57
My guess is your loosing horsepower too by intersecting the exhaust flow with that muffler. My guess is oem keeps them seperated better.
OP
I won't disagree with that.
I heard back from Magnaflow, and they said it was okay to run the cross-pattern of inlets and outlets. So then I sent them the picture of the guts of the old muffler. We'll see what they say about it.
And now, just because I've got it, here's a picture of the owner and his car -- with its newly repaired muffler. As you can see, I was able to clean the place back up this evening.
I heard back from Magnaflow, and they said it was okay to run the cross-pattern of inlets and outlets. So then I sent them the picture of the guts of the old muffler. We'll see what they say about it.
And now, just because I've got it, here's a picture of the owner and his car -- with its newly repaired muffler. As you can see, I was able to clean the place back up this evening.
metalhead140
Well-known member
Looks great as always!
Aha! I was wondering what was going on in the belly pan dept. Last I'd noticed something, long ago, you started with a big sheet of corrougated plastic or something? I was googling belly pan projects, normally a hypermiler nerd thing, and among the google image search, I thought I saw a 911, and guess who?
How much does a sheet of aluminum like that cost?
This pound of weight gain reminds me of something I learned in my own years as a weight junkie:
That's not a bad place to have an extra pound. When adding lightness to a production/street car, you modify this, you swap out that, 5 lbs. off the starter, etc etc -- and everything you do, that glass and steel roof are still... up there. While it's always nice to have less mass overall... the CG may not be lowering. At least, that's my theory. I could be Cliff Clavin here. While it's nice to add lightness everywhere you can, some places are more important than others. Heck, the factory added ballast to these cars in days of yore!
Last edited:
Bob Heine
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Jack,
Because I know less than most about exhaust system design, I feel obligated to share my ignorance. If I recall correctly, stock 911s have one exhaust outlet. Google found this 1993 stock exhaust system and it looks like the six pipes merge into a single pipe after a tortuous trip around the perimeter of the engine.
If the Magnaflow muffler you are using had two inlets and only one outlet, it would be similar to the stock setup but with less plumbing. I think the second outlet reduces back-pressure and the internal x-pipe design helps scavenge the exhaust (pulses from opposite sides would help rather than hinder the flow). There would be turbulence for sure but with the inlet and outlet volume being equal, it should be a pretty efficient muffler.
I would be surprised if another muffler design would provide a significant horsepower increase and at $2,000+ I would feel really bad if it didn't knock a second off your lap time....
Jack, any chance you can run open exhaust at Willow? That would give some indication of how much (if any) power you are losing with the muffler setup.
Because I know less than most about exhaust system design, I feel obligated to share my ignorance. If I recall correctly, stock 911s have one exhaust outlet. Google found this 1993 stock exhaust system and it looks like the six pipes merge into a single pipe after a tortuous trip around the perimeter of the engine.
If the Magnaflow muffler you are using had two inlets and only one outlet, it would be similar to the stock setup but with less plumbing. I think the second outlet reduces back-pressure and the internal x-pipe design helps scavenge the exhaust (pulses from opposite sides would help rather than hinder the flow). There would be turbulence for sure but with the inlet and outlet volume being equal, it should be a pretty efficient muffler.
I would be surprised if another muffler design would provide a significant horsepower increase and at $2,000+ I would feel really bad if it didn't knock a second off your lap time....
Jack, any chance you can run open exhaust at Willow? That would give some indication of how much (if any) power you are losing with the muffler setup.
Zeke
Well-known member
Let's get some more info out here. IIRC, Jack is using a flipped 993 exhaust header which puts the exhaust collectors both facing rear and at somewhat equal length header pipes. So any muffler downstream is just a dump for the exhaust. Open headers require re mapping of the ECU and installing and removing the muffler at the track. Believe me that at the end of the day that last thing you want to do is crawl under a hot car and bolt up a muffler.
But that's not all there is to this. The Porsche flat six motor in its various iterations likes a bit of back pressure. Over scavenging of the exhaust can be counter productive. Also note that the flat six is a 180º firing motor so the pulses going into the muffler from opposite directions are reciprocal. Therefore a common dump chamber with plenty of outlet capacity might just be the right set up.
Sure, it could be refined a little for a modicum of HP gain. IIRC again, Jack is hitting redline RPM's at the end of the 2 straights depending of prevailing winds. He doesn't need more top end until he changes the drive ratio. He does need torque on a few portions of the track and the current muffler most likely allows for plenty. Especially since it's essentially gutted.
It's all a matter of influencing performance in different disciplines. When the suspension and tire package allow for faster corner exit speeds, then a higher speed can be anticipated at the top end. Add some gear and suffer at some slow portions of the track. Change the individual drive gears to map out the optimum gearing for the track in question. Go back to the engine and tweak some more. Change the suspension settings.
It's an never ending scheme to work the trilogy of performance, aerodynamics, handling and power. A gain in one area will ask for a change in another.
But that's not all there is to this. The Porsche flat six motor in its various iterations likes a bit of back pressure. Over scavenging of the exhaust can be counter productive. Also note that the flat six is a 180º firing motor so the pulses going into the muffler from opposite directions are reciprocal. Therefore a common dump chamber with plenty of outlet capacity might just be the right set up.
Sure, it could be refined a little for a modicum of HP gain. IIRC again, Jack is hitting redline RPM's at the end of the 2 straights depending of prevailing winds. He doesn't need more top end until he changes the drive ratio. He does need torque on a few portions of the track and the current muffler most likely allows for plenty. Especially since it's essentially gutted.
It's all a matter of influencing performance in different disciplines. When the suspension and tire package allow for faster corner exit speeds, then a higher speed can be anticipated at the top end. Add some gear and suffer at some slow portions of the track. Change the individual drive gears to map out the optimum gearing for the track in question. Go back to the engine and tweak some more. Change the suspension settings.
It's an never ending scheme to work the trilogy of performance, aerodynamics, handling and power. A gain in one area will ask for a change in another.
metalhead140
Well-known member
My thought is just that the muffler is (I assume) designed to work as an X pipe, where a pulse one side helps to create a vacuum in the other side, pulling the next pulse through (in idealistic theory). However, in Jacks setup, the flows are pushing into one another, shooting through the muffler in opposite directions and colliding in the middle. I feel that there must be a lot of turbulence and would expect a large-ish reduction of flow in the crossover point. But as stated I am no expert! Just an interested amateur. It just doesn't look right to me.
OP
It's interesting.
Bob, Porsche finally got rid of the two-into-one design you show in 1995, where they were able to reconfigure the headers/cat/muffler setup in a more straightforward way. My motor is a 1995 (although previously I used a 1993 engine), and the exhaust is a set of short headers emptying into the Magnaflow.
The only thing obscuring the view here are the heat exchangers, which is the trick to getting heat from an air-cooled motor.
Partly because of a mistake on my part, I was able to email two different tech guys at Magnaflow. Both confirmed that the company approves of the use of the muffler in the way I'm using it. But one theorized that I might be limiting the scavenging characteristics of the muffler when the flow is not running parallel to the long dimension of the muffler. I sent both of them the picture of the internal damage. The first guy said he'd never seen that before. The second hasn't gotten back to me yet.
I'm up in the air right now about whether there'd be a benefit to running a pair of mufflers in place of the single Magnaflow. It would be more expensive, but these are <$100 mufflers we're talking about, which is uncommonly cheap for the Porsche market.
If I got a different muffler, I'd want to dyno both of them on the same day. As it stands, the Magnaflow got me pretty good numbers, relative to other Porsche 993-model engines. But it does seem like the current setup, especially, must mean a lot of pulses slamming into each other inside the muffler.
Bob, Porsche finally got rid of the two-into-one design you show in 1995, where they were able to reconfigure the headers/cat/muffler setup in a more straightforward way. My motor is a 1995 (although previously I used a 1993 engine), and the exhaust is a set of short headers emptying into the Magnaflow.
The only thing obscuring the view here are the heat exchangers, which is the trick to getting heat from an air-cooled motor.
Partly because of a mistake on my part, I was able to email two different tech guys at Magnaflow. Both confirmed that the company approves of the use of the muffler in the way I'm using it. But one theorized that I might be limiting the scavenging characteristics of the muffler when the flow is not running parallel to the long dimension of the muffler. I sent both of them the picture of the internal damage. The first guy said he'd never seen that before. The second hasn't gotten back to me yet.
I'm up in the air right now about whether there'd be a benefit to running a pair of mufflers in place of the single Magnaflow. It would be more expensive, but these are <$100 mufflers we're talking about, which is uncommonly cheap for the Porsche market.
If I got a different muffler, I'd want to dyno both of them on the same day. As it stands, the Magnaflow got me pretty good numbers, relative to other Porsche 993-model engines. But it does seem like the current setup, especially, must mean a lot of pulses slamming into each other inside the muffler.
OP
And Squankum, we're on the same page on the weight issue. I was happy to add a pound so low and so well distributed fore-to-aft. Well, not happy, but willing to put up with it. I was extremely happy to lose the 7 pounds so far back with the replacement of the cast aluminum air duct. But based on the carnage inside the muffler, I will have to make frequent checks of the condition of my ultra-lightweight air duct down the line. There's clearly a fair amount of vibration back there.
And yes, Zeke, I'm slowly trying to get used to the idea that it's going to cost me $900 or so to replace my 5th gear set with one that will have one extra tooth and will give me another 5 mph of top speed.
And yes, Zeke, I'm slowly trying to get used to the idea that it's going to cost me $900 or so to replace my 5th gear set with one that will have one extra tooth and will give me another 5 mph of top speed.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Running open header means other changes, also. The engine will lean out a bit if all you do is unbolt the muffler (This is assuming no computer controlled FI, and even then, will it figure it out properly? 
). It will sound faster, but is it making more HP?
Even swapping out the mufflers, keep a monitor on the O2 sensor(s) (you do have a pair in there right?) and make sure the AF mix is doing its thing properly.
). It will sound faster, but is it making more HP? Even swapping out the mufflers, keep a monitor on the O2 sensor(s) (you do have a pair in there right?) and make sure the AF mix is doing its thing properly.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
What about a tire size change? (or a brandy new pair on the back?) you are talking less than 5% difference in speed...
metalhead140
Well-known member
Not a bad thought. 2.5% increase in wheel and tyre diameter will give you ~5% more circumference (i.e 5% higher gearing). Not sure on your wheel/tyre size, but probably ~1/2inch diameter extra (1/4" extra radius) would do the trick, if there is a suitable tyre size available?
OP
A small part of the rationale for the recent move from 275/40x17s to 315/35x17s was the slight (very slight) increase in overall diameter. A larger part was getting a F/R ratio more like the modern 911 race cars.
But those are about it for the common 17-inch sizes.
And on the garage-related theme, I snapped a picture of my current to-do list while I was doing the brakes on my daily driver today. It's always nicer to look at the list when you're on the downhill side of it.
But those are about it for the common 17-inch sizes.
And on the garage-related theme, I snapped a picture of my current to-do list while I was doing the brakes on my daily driver today. It's always nicer to look at the list when you're on the downhill side of it.
Last edited:
Zeke
Well-known member
Outlaw, you and I can spend Jack's money better than he can. . I think it's time for some 18" wheels. This gets into the aesthetics of the package though. Jack is aware of a fellow that is manufacturing a Fuchs style wheel using a forging or hybrid forging process (as opposed to cast) and they are one piece wheels. That takes care of the aesthetics.
However, a new tire and wheel combination changes the dynamics of the shock package. I believe Jack has recently upgraded the rear shocks and they should be adjustable for both jounce and rebound. A tire with a lower aspect ratio has less sidewall deflection. That deflection is part of the spring and shock package. (I think it affects both spring rate AND shock settings but there will be debate on that.)
So, 18" wheels will change the handling. But, a bigger diameter tire just might not be part of a great recipe. Jack, you need to put on some borrowed wheels and tires that someone can bring out for you. Easily said, eh? But seriously, there must be someone in one of those haulers that has an extra set in the Porsche bolt pattern.
So, $900 for a gear or 900 put towards 3K of wheels?
. I think it's time for some 18" wheels. This gets into the aesthetics of the package though. Jack is aware of a fellow that is manufacturing a Fuchs style wheel using a forging or hybrid forging process (as opposed to cast) and they are one piece wheels. That takes care of the aesthetics.However, a new tire and wheel combination changes the dynamics of the shock package. I believe Jack has recently upgraded the rear shocks and they should be adjustable for both jounce and rebound. A tire with a lower aspect ratio has less sidewall deflection. That deflection is part of the spring and shock package. (I think it affects both spring rate AND shock settings but there will be debate on that.)
So, 18" wheels will change the handling. But, a bigger diameter tire just might not be part of a great recipe. Jack, you need to put on some borrowed wheels and tires that someone can bring out for you. Easily said, eh? But seriously, there must be someone in one of those haulers that has an extra set in the Porsche bolt pattern.
So, $900 for a gear or 900 put towards 3K of wheels?
What? BOTH!
Don't you people know how racing works?
I have so much more money since I quit.
What worries me about increasing rear tire diameter just for gearing is increasing the rear ride height, roll center. Esp. with that weight hanging out back there.
akdiesel
Well-known member
Jack
Talks about the belly pans... Wont those pans keep unwanted heat from excaping? I know they are for protection but it may create a new problem. If they are needed, you may want to add some louvers to direct some air flow. Also could they create a lift. In other words like a wing on an airplane, so when you approach a rise in the road it may lift the vehicle slightly. We know you want as much down force as possible for corners and such.
Nice pic of the shop and also nice to see you can enjoy a cold one after cleaning up.
Talks about the belly pans... Wont those pans keep unwanted heat from excaping? I know they are for protection but it may create a new problem. If they are needed, you may want to add some louvers to direct some air flow. Also could they create a lift. In other words like a wing on an airplane, so when you approach a rise in the road it may lift the vehicle slightly. We know you want as much down force as possible for corners and such.
Nice pic of the shop and also nice to see you can enjoy a cold one after cleaning up.
OP
Yeah, when you put it in the context of a new set (or sets) of wheels, then the $900 gear set looks pretty cheap. The question would be: do I go for a 140 top speed or 145? On the one hand, it's foolish to throw away any gearing on speed I won't use. On the other hand, I underestimated that once already when I chose 135. What if I put a supercharger on this thing one day?
Now even those expensive wheels seem cheap.
akdiesel, the belly pan piece is just there to smooth out the airflow underneath the car. The underbelly of my 911 if just sheet metal, but it's got an irregular shape and moves up and down in a way that slows the car down (slightly) at high speeds. I do everything I can to keep air from getting under the car in the first place, but the smoothing sheet makes a noticable difference when it's there. It doesn't cause heat issues, since it stops ahead of the transaxle and engine.
Here you can see all the bolt-on stuff in its full ugliness. From the first picture, you'd think I could bring that 'curtain' in front down a little further. But in the second picture you can see the way it makes contact with the track under heavy braking.
Now even those expensive wheels seem cheap.
akdiesel, the belly pan piece is just there to smooth out the airflow underneath the car. The underbelly of my 911 if just sheet metal, but it's got an irregular shape and moves up and down in a way that slows the car down (slightly) at high speeds. I do everything I can to keep air from getting under the car in the first place, but the smoothing sheet makes a noticable difference when it's there. It doesn't cause heat issues, since it stops ahead of the transaxle and engine.
Here you can see all the bolt-on stuff in its full ugliness. From the first picture, you'd think I could bring that 'curtain' in front down a little further. But in the second picture you can see the way it makes contact with the track under heavy braking.
Stephen Bonin
New member
Hello Sir can you tell me if the anodized Bronze you use is a flat,satin or Gloss, i can only find flat here in Canada thanks!!!
Hi Jack,
Been through 98% of your thread before. Just spent some time this weekend going throught it again for a refresher of ideas. Do you know what brand the metal wall cabinets are that you have mounted over your benches? The ones you are using for hanging tool storage. Thanks.
Been through 98% of your thread before. Just spent some time this weekend going throught it again for a refresher of ideas. Do you know what brand the metal wall cabinets are that you have mounted over your benches? The ones you are using for hanging tool storage. Thanks.
OP
kfainf, I did a quick search but I didn't find the brand. It's somewhere in this thread though, and I'll find it later tonight for you.
* * *
Here's a one-hour project I found time for today. I wanted to put a wire wheel on my 6" grinder, but the wheel was expanding enough that it was making too much contact with the guard around it. I know some guys just take off the guard for a wire wheel, but I'd rather have some protection. So I took some 18-gauge steel and made a slightly-bigger guard. It's adjustable, so that I can move it farther out from the wheel if the wires continue to expand.
In pictures:
* * *
Here's a one-hour project I found time for today. I wanted to put a wire wheel on my 6" grinder, but the wheel was expanding enough that it was making too much contact with the guard around it. I know some guys just take off the guard for a wire wheel, but I'd rather have some protection. So I took some 18-gauge steel and made a slightly-bigger guard. It's adjustable, so that I can move it farther out from the wheel if the wires continue to expand.
In pictures:
Thanks for the reply Jack. If you find the brand of cabinets just post it up. Please don't do an extensive search for it. I thought I had remembered the name brand of those cabinets in your original "Poor Man's Retro Retreat" thread. I went through that thread and this one for quite a while over the weekend, but did not find it. Admittedly I did not read each post though.
Great idea for the grinder guard and looks great too. Your ideas and execution always inspire me. I appreciate you taking time to document, with words and photos, all of your projects. Thanks.
Kevin
Great idea for the grinder guard and looks great too. Your ideas and execution always inspire me. I appreciate you taking time to document, with words and photos, all of your projects. Thanks.
Kevin