dcuthill
Well-known member
I agree! Sounds as shady as the concrete guy. Tell him to rip that **** out and repour it!
3 hour hot concrete poor
- Thread starter 600SL
- Start date
kelpaso1
MEMBER EMERITUS
Indeed. Why is this guy defending this so called contractor????? He keeps saying "he knows what he is doing" when clearly this idiot does NOT!!
OK what is fishy about the OP story and attitude.
I asked a questing what can be done got and answer Nothing and it will F up shortly. I understand that.
It was recommended that I sue the guy. Been down that road and it didn't work out.
Been recommended to rip it out and start all over. Obviously that will eventually happen.
I was told a whole bunch of stuff that I shouldn't of done that is totally useless information at this point.
So who's not listening here and who has a bad attitude.
I asked a questing what can be done got and answer Nothing and it will F up shortly. I understand that.
It was recommended that I sue the guy. Been down that road and it didn't work out.
Been recommended to rip it out and start all over. Obviously that will eventually happen.
I was told a whole bunch of stuff that I shouldn't of done that is totally useless information at this point.
So who's not listening here and who has a bad attitude.
starquestMM
Well-known member
Grind it so nothing is a trip hazard and use it.
If you want to try to control the cracks the way rebar or mesh would have, you can do some slot stitching. Its relatively cheap, but somewhat labor intensive and will restore some load transfer across a crack to keep to from worsening.
If you want to try to control the cracks the way rebar or mesh would have, you can do some slot stitching. Its relatively cheap, but somewhat labor intensive and will restore some load transfer across a crack to keep to from worsening.
SALIV8
Well-known member
You can't get cash from a loser who has no cash.
I might call the attorney general in your state and check your options. Small claims is pretty straightforward from what I've been told. Get all your ducks in a row with whatever u choose, if anything at all.
Other than that, just have the guy do his best to make that pad as nice as can be. **** happens it's not the end of the world.
I have a carport slab and sidewalks that were done 7 years ago and they're not anything to brag about. At the time they looked perfect. Obviously corners were cut on mine too.
**** happens. I would not throw anymore money at that project until it breaks apart so bad I'm twisting my ankles.. Which will probably never happen.
I might call the attorney general in your state and check your options. Small claims is pretty straightforward from what I've been told. Get all your ducks in a row with whatever u choose, if anything at all.
Other than that, just have the guy do his best to make that pad as nice as can be. **** happens it's not the end of the world.
I have a carport slab and sidewalks that were done 7 years ago and they're not anything to brag about. At the time they looked perfect. Obviously corners were cut on mine too.
**** happens. I would not throw anymore money at that project until it breaks apart so bad I'm twisting my ankles.. Which will probably never happen.
I sure as hell wouldn't pay him, I'm surprised the drivers dumped it sitting that long.
Consider the water they added sitting there, I doubt if it was 3000 psi by the time it was poured.
Pictures, pictures, pictures, go to concrete company and see if you can get records of time frame that trucks left plant, returned to plant, etc.
Get another contractor, get what you pay for.
Good luck.
Consider the water they added sitting there, I doubt if it was 3000 psi by the time it was poured.
Pictures, pictures, pictures, go to concrete company and see if you can get records of time frame that trucks left plant, returned to plant, etc.
Get another contractor, get what you pay for.
Good luck.
I understand that, but any driver worth his salt would start making calls back to the plant after an hour or so.
He would have been better off dumping it in a pile somewhere than place it, tear it out and do it again.
I'd sue in small claims court, easy win with documentation.
No excuse for the contractor IMO.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
Ugliest pad pour of the year award!!!!
I wouldn't want anyone to see that mess.
I'd cover it with a layer of dirt
All I can say is WTF. This guy is going around pouring concrete, and yet he's broke?
He should at least be bonded just because of things like this happening. And now you are still working with him for a repour? His *** should be kicked to the curb, and you should make sure that you don't get screwed around. Don't feel sorry for him, but go after him. If he can get one over on you, how many more has he done it to?
I recently have had the same problem. But my contractor is going above and beyond to make it right. He will lose his *** on the job but when you own a business that's the risk you take. My 900 sqft job Was going to be a quick job for him but now it's costing him about $6000 by the time he rips the old floor out and regrades and re-pours I was sick the day I came home and saw the floor. I know how you feel. I hope he does the right thing.
hd54kh
Well-known member
Where in N.C., I'm in Mooresville and looking to get a pad poured, please help me avoid this from happening.
Terry
Terry
He F'd this job up this bad, cant afford to do it over and you are going to let him do more work for you?
the best you can do is make it "pretty" maybe caulk all of the cracks to keep water out of themEdit....wait, are you the "contractor"? Serious question. I just cant understand why you would not go after the guy. Small claims is $50 plus you havent paid all of the job yet so you should come in under the maximum. If he doesnt pay you file liens against anything he owns. Yeah, its a little bit of time, but its a less time than its going to take to rip that "pad" out
for the record I didnt read all 7 pages so excuse me if its been discussed.
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I had profittcustomhomes build my garage in charlotte. He had a great concrete guy pour the slab. Pm me if you want more info
6768rogues
Banned
You should not have paid. I was a contractor for 21 years and never got money up front. I never pay up front. A reputable contractor has an account with the suppliers and would pay for the concrete next month. He has your money, you have a crappy job that should be done over, and legal remedies are expensive. You learned an expensive lesson.
redsand187
Well-known member
If he's a contractor, he should have a bond. I know here, contracting without a license and bond and insurance(required to get a license) can result in fines and possible jail time, plus personal liability for the damages.
If he has a license, you can sue, recoup your legal expenses and damages from the bond and insurance.
Also, if you have a contract from him his license number should be on the contract.
If he has a license, you can sue, recoup your legal expenses and damages from the bond and insurance.
Also, if you have a contract from him his license number should be on the contract.
Diesel Dan
Well-known member
Contractors who are broke are broke for a reason, usually.
Had 20 yards poured, 6 employees and wasn't asked for payment until all the cleanup was completed.
My contractor works at a factory on 3rd shift, then does concrete work until noon-1pm. Then goes home, sleeps and back to work. Half his crew did the same thing. Couple guys wanted in on his crew because it kept them out of the bars. He has been running this schedule for about 20 years now. Guy is a workaholic.
Hope you get some kind of resolution, that is a lot of money to flush away.
Zeke
Well-known member
I went back and read this entire thread again. Of course many posters didn't read much before they posted. Hell, I feel into that myself and I deleted my post so I could write this one. We know how bad the situation is and the remedies are few besides ripping it out.
The so called contractor who once could manage his work was an obvious choice for the OP. I usually will use a contractor or non contractor again if they did well for me before as this fellow apparently did. BTW, this is a good time to mention that keeping track of who you use AFA recent jobs is important. A contractor is only s good as those working for him the day of your job. In this case, they were late and hung over. I feel sorry for the OP. He had this fellow before and this time it didn't work out at all.
The overlay product mentioned in post 10 might be OK but I worry about the base concrete breaking up. Indeed, I mentioned something about this pad always intended to be gravel trying to be funny which I wasn't. The overlay may not work. Asphalt overlay came to mind but I don't know if the site can be built up another 2 inches.
What does the job look like in front of the building? Can the side be cut and removed and doweled into the other or is the whole thing that bad?
Lastly, I can't imagine a batch plant letting one of their trucks stand idling at a jobsite for over 2 hours and not get very concerned. They too are somewhat culpable in this. I bet next time they get an order from this 'contractor' they don't roll until the check clears.
Which brings me to the business of the bill being in the "contractor's" name but the checks came from the owner. That could prove to be an interesting path to follow. And that $300 check will be interesting to see who endorsed it when it comes back.
I think I'd take some time to sort this out and approach everyone involved for a solution. I'd wait until I had all the facts of who did what and who paid whom before presenting the situation back to the parties involved and see just how far they's like to go down the legal route.
Yes, it costs money to pursue matters through the legal system, but it costs the other sides as well. And, SCC is much cheaper if the OP decides to limit his compensation. Be sure to name everyone involved and let the judge dismiss each party as he may. After all, it's the court's job to sort out the liability, not us.
The OP came to us for suggestions and so far no one has said keep a cool head, collect as much info as possible, and talk to each party asking what they think they'd like to do to resolve the issue. If all decline to pitch in and correct this then you know how the toast is buttered. Even the help might come back for a few bucks, some beer and a great BBQ. That goes for the truck drivers as well. Hopefully everyone can sit back, look at a good job and have a big laugh.
Lemons to lemonade if you can. Personally, I'd be willing to throw out some of the money that would otherwise be spent on the legal system right back at the problem people. As long as their gas money is covered and they eat well, they should come around.
But, I don't know much about folks in North Carolina. I did work in Alabama for a year and the story I tell about that place goes like this:
The roofing contractor had 12 roofers on his payroll. On any day 9 or so will show up. Of the nine, at any time a different 3 will be standing around smoking or talking on the phone. 2 or 3 more will either be on the ******* or left to go to the local store to get smokes and cokes (make that Mountain Dew). That leaves 3 or 4 working at any point and the job gets done on time.
Out here in CA, we use the 3 or 4 and no one fucks off or they get down off the roof and go home. In CA we pay 125% in workers comp for roofers so it's like there are 8 of them up there when it comes to labor cost.
The so called contractor who once could manage his work was an obvious choice for the OP. I usually will use a contractor or non contractor again if they did well for me before as this fellow apparently did. BTW, this is a good time to mention that keeping track of who you use AFA recent jobs is important. A contractor is only s good as those working for him the day of your job. In this case, they were late and hung over. I feel sorry for the OP. He had this fellow before and this time it didn't work out at all.
The overlay product mentioned in post 10 might be OK but I worry about the base concrete breaking up. Indeed, I mentioned something about this pad always intended to be gravel trying to be funny which I wasn't. The overlay may not work. Asphalt overlay came to mind but I don't know if the site can be built up another 2 inches.
What does the job look like in front of the building? Can the side be cut and removed and doweled into the other or is the whole thing that bad?
Lastly, I can't imagine a batch plant letting one of their trucks stand idling at a jobsite for over 2 hours and not get very concerned. They too are somewhat culpable in this. I bet next time they get an order from this 'contractor' they don't roll until the check clears.
Which brings me to the business of the bill being in the "contractor's" name but the checks came from the owner. That could prove to be an interesting path to follow. And that $300 check will be interesting to see who endorsed it when it comes back.
I think I'd take some time to sort this out and approach everyone involved for a solution. I'd wait until I had all the facts of who did what and who paid whom before presenting the situation back to the parties involved and see just how far they's like to go down the legal route.
Yes, it costs money to pursue matters through the legal system, but it costs the other sides as well. And, SCC is much cheaper if the OP decides to limit his compensation. Be sure to name everyone involved and let the judge dismiss each party as he may. After all, it's the court's job to sort out the liability, not us.
The OP came to us for suggestions and so far no one has said keep a cool head, collect as much info as possible, and talk to each party asking what they think they'd like to do to resolve the issue. If all decline to pitch in and correct this then you know how the toast is buttered. Even the help might come back for a few bucks, some beer and a great BBQ. That goes for the truck drivers as well. Hopefully everyone can sit back, look at a good job and have a big laugh.
Lemons to lemonade if you can. Personally, I'd be willing to throw out some of the money that would otherwise be spent on the legal system right back at the problem people. As long as their gas money is covered and they eat well, they should come around.
But, I don't know much about folks in North Carolina. I did work in Alabama for a year and the story I tell about that place goes like this:
The roofing contractor had 12 roofers on his payroll. On any day 9 or so will show up. Of the nine, at any time a different 3 will be standing around smoking or talking on the phone. 2 or 3 more will either be on the ******* or left to go to the local store to get smokes and cokes (make that Mountain Dew). That leaves 3 or 4 working at any point and the job gets done on time.
Out here in CA, we use the 3 or 4 and no one fucks off or they get down off the roof and go home. In CA we pay 125% in workers comp for roofers so it's like there are 8 of them up there when it comes to labor cost.
sbosecker
Well-known member
I will add what we Navy guys call a "Sea Story".
I needed some work done on my home a few years ago. One of my acquaintances at work had some rental houses in the same city that I live in and recommended a fellow he used for repairs and refurbishing. After some due diligence, I hired the recommended fellow to replace my roof, gutters and some painting. This was a pretty big job and it was a pleasure to work with the gentleman.
A couple of years pass and I have another big project. Well you know who was on my short list. I call and talk to the same office lady on the phone I had talked to during the earlier project. Out comes a guy - not the business owner I had dealt with earlier - to my property to look at the project. I assumed - due to my earlier very positive experience - that the word on this guy was out and business was good. He was expanding his operation and the fellow at my property was a trusted supervisor.
I asked the guy looking over my job about the owner, there was a slightly odd response about him being in Tennessee doing something.
Fortunately for me this "supervisor" was - unlike my previous experience - slow to get back to me. The condensed version is that I was beginning to smell a rodent. Despite numerous attempts, I wasn't able to contact the guy (the owner) I had dealt with on the previous project. All I got was lame responses from the people I talked to.
I finally talked with the fellow from work who had given me the original referral. He indicated it had been quite a while since he had seen the original guy. He had got all his rental houses under control so he hadn't needed to use this company in quite a while.
I'm pretty sure the new guys slowness and bad communication were only the tip of the iceberg. I am grateful that he didn't come right back with a bid because - based on my earlier extremely positive experience - I would have been leaning HARD towards taking that bid,
The moral of this story is: "Things can change".
I still haven't figured out what became of the owner. For all I know the "trusted supervisor" has him imprisoned in his basement.
Be careful out there.
Scott
Zeke
Well-known member
Or the first guy retired and moved to Hawaii, died; too many things to consider.
The mean fish
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2010
- Messages
- 323
I'm not sure how I would handle myself in this situation but I certainly wouldn't be rational or understanding. I don't care if I ended up owning a bunch of concrete finishing tools and a beat up old pickup truck, I'd get some of my money back from that deal and I'd pour new concrete. Court, small claims, shotgun, whatever it took.
That is beyond ridiculous, hell not only is that concrete a complete joke but he damaged what looks like a brand new workshop sheet metal wall too.
That is beyond ridiculous, hell not only is that concrete a complete joke but he damaged what looks like a brand new workshop sheet metal wall too.
Matt The Hammer
Well-known member
Watch the times of the loads. Like others stated earlier, after an hour the drivers should have started making calls.
We use 90 minutes as our maximum time from completion of mixing (at plant) to full placement. Also temperature of the concrete is monitored. Time is related to temperature too as concrete is a chemical reaction. The limits we use for placing general (not bridges) concrete for temperatures is 50F to 90F.
The OP issue was that the concrete was too old and started reacting (curing) before it was placed.
For anyone else - the driver always has a "ticket" for the batch they are delivering. They are to give that to the owner. The ticket has the time it was mixed and the specs for the concrete. Most trucks now have water monitors too so you know how much they are adding to the mix.
I work for PennDOT.
galute
Well-known member
Sounds more like a buddy deal gone bad to me.
I agree!
Having just had $4500 worth of concrete poured yesterday I can understand the frustration. I was really worried about selecting the right man for the job. Almost everyone I had come give a bid seemed shady or incompitent, except the guy I ended up hiring who has been doing it for decades building bridges and pouring slabs for large facilities like Freightliner.
It sounds like a little more research in your guy's crew was needed. Before I agreed to have the guy do mine, I interviewed him about his crew and whether or not they are dependable, trustworthy and if he would be present for the entire job. I knew whoever did the work would get a peak at my shop and toys and I didn't want them coming back later to steal ****. This is the world we live in.
I really feel for you and if I think hard enough about your situation it makes me sick to my stomach since I invisioned something aweful like this happening to me, but you should have never paid him until it was done and you were satisfied with the work. I offered to pay my guy in advance and he said the same thing about not paying until it's done and inspected by me.
Didn't realize this thread was still active.
Couple of comments.
1) Why did I hire this guy in the first place?
I originally got him for my foundation which worked out good. He was the only guy I could get that would pour the concrete on my forms. All other contractors were either afraid of a monolithic slab with rebar or they wanted to do the excavation rebar, forming pouring and finishing at some huge astronomical price. So he was willing to pour and finish and it came out OK.
But for the outside pad 4" pad I could have gotten anyone, but I had good previous experience with this guy so I used him.
2) Will I sue the guy. I believe it is worth while to do so at least in small claims court. It appears there is no risk involved and he needs to at least be sued even if I cant collect anything sort of my civic duty. Un fortunately at this time I am way too busy finishing the rest of the project so this will not happen for a while. I'm also considering spring may be the best time when it totally Fd up. The worst thing that could happen is the courts will say that he has to repair it. So the more Fd up the better.
Couple of comments.
1) Why did I hire this guy in the first place?
I originally got him for my foundation which worked out good. He was the only guy I could get that would pour the concrete on my forms. All other contractors were either afraid of a monolithic slab with rebar or they wanted to do the excavation rebar, forming pouring and finishing at some huge astronomical price. So he was willing to pour and finish and it came out OK.
But for the outside pad 4" pad I could have gotten anyone, but I had good previous experience with this guy so I used him.
2) Will I sue the guy. I believe it is worth while to do so at least in small claims court. It appears there is no risk involved and he needs to at least be sued even if I cant collect anything sort of my civic duty. Un fortunately at this time I am way too busy finishing the rest of the project so this will not happen for a while. I'm also considering spring may be the best time when it totally Fd up. The worst thing that could happen is the courts will say that he has to repair it. So the more Fd up the better.
clkimmel
Well-known member
Sometimes in situations like this you just lose. I had a guy pour some concrete for me around a pool. It was two trucks, the first was 11yards and that ended up looking like ****, the rest was a smaller section that turned out OK. We talked to the guy about how it looked and he blamed his crew and then had someone come and tear it out. Then he disapeared. We went to court and won - he didn't show. We eventually found him, but he was in and out of jail and addicted. We never got anything out of him. You can't get it from him if he doesn't have it, and they won't take tools of the trade from a guy so you can't get what he probably does have. I never had the concrete replaced and have sold the house. I always wished he had not ripped it up and we just lived with it though.
I think the OP made the right call for the situation he was in.
I think the OP made the right call for the situation he was in.
For future reference: While you're still in the talking stage, tell the prospective contractor, real casual-like, "Oh, and I'll need an insurance certificate. My fax number or email is xxxx." If he's legit (like me!) he'll whip out his cell phone, call his agent and the certificate will show up in ten minutes. Doesn't cost a dime; if he's straight he won't even blink.
True for ALL contractors. If they hem and haw, like lemme check on that, duh, whatever--and you proceed, you are assuming ALL the risk. Just facts of life. And to be fair, most often it works out ok ... but if something goes wrong, you're screwed.
One note: a few of the posts here have complained about the "you shoulda" posts (like this one) being worthless. I don't think so... while they don't help solve the CURRENT problem, they certainly can offer ways of AVOIDING FUTURE problems. That's my take; take it for what it's worth.
True for ALL contractors. If they hem and haw, like lemme check on that, duh, whatever--and you proceed, you are assuming ALL the risk. Just facts of life. And to be fair, most often it works out ok ... but if something goes wrong, you're screwed.
One note: a few of the posts here have complained about the "you shoulda" posts (like this one) being worthless. I don't think so... while they don't help solve the CURRENT problem, they certainly can offer ways of AVOIDING FUTURE problems. That's my take; take it for what it's worth.
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Flounder_Pounder
Well-known member
Sorry, terrible job and should be redone. Hiring a general contractor is like Russia roulette....yours had a bullet
hoho98925
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Wow, this situation *****. My read on this is the guy who first time around may have been licensed and bonded now isn't. In the state I live in it is illeagle for anyone to do ANY work for compensation without being licensed and bonded. This guy may have mislead the op into thinking he still was, he still used his company named account to order the concrete.
So the job is fucked up, we all know it. Sounds like the OP is going to try and fix the mess he is stuck with, the finisher doesn't have the funds and neither does the OP to rip it out and re do it. So lets use this as an unfortunate learning experience for our members that haven't built yet.
1. Do not hire a unlicensed "contractor" to do anything. It's easy to check on anybody in most states, using there name or there supposed business name.
2. Do not pay any substantial amounts up front. Pay upon completion.
3. If you don't know anything about construction, find someone who does to oversee your project. Pay them a little bit for guidance, avoid these messes.
4. If the concrete shows up and no one is there to place it, send it back, the contractor will have to pay for it, it's ordered on his account. That would have saved this whole slab fiasco.
As far as this instance, if the OP called the state, they would investigate,fine and possibly take him to court for you. In my state you can only file a lien if your licensed and bonded at the time you provided your service.
I hope this helps the members, take it to heart, follow this advice. Have a successful build.
So the job is fucked up, we all know it. Sounds like the OP is going to try and fix the mess he is stuck with, the finisher doesn't have the funds and neither does the OP to rip it out and re do it. So lets use this as an unfortunate learning experience for our members that haven't built yet.
1. Do not hire a unlicensed "contractor" to do anything. It's easy to check on anybody in most states, using there name or there supposed business name.
2. Do not pay any substantial amounts up front. Pay upon completion.
3. If you don't know anything about construction, find someone who does to oversee your project. Pay them a little bit for guidance, avoid these messes.
4. If the concrete shows up and no one is there to place it, send it back, the contractor will have to pay for it, it's ordered on his account. That would have saved this whole slab fiasco.
As far as this instance, if the OP called the state, they would investigate,fine and possibly take him to court for you. In my state you can only file a lien if your licensed and bonded at the time you provided your service.
I hope this helps the members, take it to heart, follow this advice. Have a successful build.
Daniel Dudley
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2009
- Messages
- 3,546
A lien might be the only way to get satisfaction in this case, and it is a heck of a lot cheaper than a lawsuit.
ctgoodman
Well-known member
I at one time worked for a masonry/concrete contractor. In those years we've poured a lot of concrete. That concrete should have never made it to the ground. The issue with your contractor and the workers not being there when the truck showed up is entirely their fault. We where always on the job early on pour day making sure the forms where good and all the tools and machines where out and ready to go. Our biggest issue was the drivers who would get a load spend a half hour on the road, stop to eat lunch for an hour then another 30 minutes getting out to the site. If the boss even suspected this happened he would call the supplier and ask what time the truck left the plant. If it was 2+ hours he asked them to send another truck if we where pouring finish work. Wall fill and footings it didn't matter.
As for what to do with that slab I don't know exactly. There are options for grinding and sealing it. Then sawcut plenty of expansion joins to control cracking. If your ground was packed hard it shouldn't move too much. I've seen a good many slabs poured right on the clay with no wire and no rebar. They had an abundance of sawcuts and cracking was no issue with those.
As for what to do with that slab I don't know exactly. There are options for grinding and sealing it. Then sawcut plenty of expansion joins to control cracking. If your ground was packed hard it shouldn't move too much. I've seen a good many slabs poured right on the clay with no wire and no rebar. They had an abundance of sawcuts and cracking was no issue with those.
saceone
Well-known member
I'd be mad at the following people:
- concrete truck operator for pouring 2-3hours after mixing (WTF!!)
- "contractor"
- myself for hiring said "contractor"
I don't know about you guys in the USA , but up here in Montréal, don't even think about unloading the concrete if it's been sitting here for more than an hour.
(GC commercial/industrial jobs here)
I know it's super easy to play monday morning quarterback but the I will never. ever. ever. accept a pour if the concrete placing crew isn't on site when the truck shows up. that's the first red flag..then there's the ruined brand new metal siding etc etc.
being a canadian I don't know much about suing this that him and her but I would imagine that you should do it ASAP so you don't get screwed with "you had to report/sue within X amout of days"
good luck, nice building though!
- concrete truck operator for pouring 2-3hours after mixing (WTF!!)
- "contractor"
- myself for hiring said "contractor"
I don't know about you guys in the USA , but up here in Montréal, don't even think about unloading the concrete if it's been sitting here for more than an hour.
(GC commercial/industrial jobs here)
I know it's super easy to play monday morning quarterback but the I will never. ever. ever. accept a pour if the concrete placing crew isn't on site when the truck shows up. that's the first red flag..then there's the ruined brand new metal siding etc etc.
being a canadian I don't know much about suing this that him and her but I would imagine that you should do it ASAP so you don't get screwed with "you had to report/sue within X amout of days"
good luck, nice building though!