Impact Wrenches... Do some hit harder than others?

[jeff000]

I have a mastercraft impact, 1/2", and for the most part it is great, and advertises 460 ft lbs.
But working on my Jeep I have had a few bolts that my impact just wouldn't budge. And using a 2' breaker bar I can spin these bolts, but it takes a fair amount of effort for my 150lbs. Is my impact not working like it should, or at the bolts outside the range of my impact?

Would a better impact actually work better?

 

[48RON54]

I don't know about a "better" impact......... my 1/2" craftsman at home and my 1/2" mlwaukee at work get most anything off......... Sometimes with large damaged bolts though I still have to get out the breaker bar or the torch.

If I am struggling with either impact I make sure I do not have an extension and make sure I am not using a deep socket, as both seem to reduce the amount of torque delivered at the end. (I am not an engineer, nor do I pretend to be...just speaking of my own personal experience here... I have no intention of doing any math to prove or disprove my own experiences)

 

[IFMJohn]

My snap-on is rated at 1000-something ft/lbs backing off torque and somewhere in the mid-800's tightening torque. It's definitely stronger than other impact guns in my experience.

 

[jeff000]

I don't know about a "better" impact......... my 1/2" craftsman at home and my 1/2" mlwaukee at work get most anything off......... Sometimes with large damaged bolts though I still have to get out the breaker bar or the torch.

If I am struggling with either impact I make sure I do not have an extension and make sure I am not using a deep socket, as both seem to reduce the amount of torque delivered at the end. (I am not an engineer, nor do I pretend to be...just speaking of my own personal experience here... I have no intention of doing any math to prove or disprove my own experiences)

I don't understand why an extension or deep socket would take away torque. But I have heard that a lot, and pretty sure tire shops used to use torque sticks or something, different length extensions for different torque values.

I am trying to get my leaf's off. And to even get my impact on I drilled a hole through the body under the rear bumper cap moldings, I am using a deep socket, a swivel head, and then a 6" extension. Impact does nothing but make a lot of noise. 2' breaker bar and about 80% of my 150lb max effort gets the bolt out. But after doing 1 of 4 bolts this way, I don't want to do the other 3.
The nuts on the u bolts holding my leafs to the axle are similarly tight, so that's 8 more nuts. Unless I just cut the u bolt.
I have been using penetrating oil, not really helping.

I don't mind spending a little money, if it will actually help my though.

My snap-on is rated at 1000-something ft/lbs backing off torque and somewhere in the mid-800's tightening torque. It's definitely stronger than other impact guns in my experience.

That's crazy. I looked at a few snap on and they were still around the 420-500 ft lbs. Is your's 1/2" still.
I saw a couple 3/4 that were up to 1500. But even the crappy ones are $$$$

 

[nesw20]

when i was a tech, my blue point 1/2" impact wouldn't touch some wheel nuts, and my coworker's IR titanium took them off without breaking a sweat. some impacts DEFINITELY hit harder than others.

 

[nesw20]

I don't understand why an extension or deep socket would take away torque. But I have heard that a lot, and pretty sure tire shops used to use torque sticks or something, different length extensions for different torque values.

there's just a little more "give" with an extension. it's noticeable when the impact is borderline strong enough.

 

[finn]

My SnapOn is a POS, and has been since new. I can do better with a breaker bar (without a cheater bar). The SnapOn has just about the same torque as my 30 year old Black and Decker.

Is the IR composite still at the top of the heap or is there something better out there now?

 

[thachman]

My IR 231C has gotten off everything I've asked it to except my Honda crankshaft pulley bolt. Took a breaker bar with a 5' cheater pipe to break that sum'***** loose.

I don't think there is a 1/2" gun made that would have taken that bolt off.

 

[IFMJohn]

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?item_ID=646291&group_ID=683065

Unit delivers an outstanding 1,190 ft. lb. (1,613 N•m) of Bolt Break Away Torque!
810 ft. lb. (1,094 N•m) of Recommended Working Torque

 

[jethro29]

in my opinion the mg725 is by far the best impact out there,i've tried them all over the past 28 years or so.

 

[DTB]

I have a IR 231 and a MG725 that I got secondhand. Working on ag equipment I've ran into a few bolts that the 231 wouldn't remove that the Snap On would. Before, I wouldn't of thought there was much difference but there is. Id like to compare the 725 to the better IR impact, I imagine it is a little more comparable to the 725 than the 231. From my experience, using a long extension can reduce the torque applied also. I only have deep impact sockets so I can't compare torque loss to the shallow sockets.

 

[IFMJohn]

Coming from a guy who's lug nut torque on most vehicles is 450 ft/lbs and the leaf spring torque is 850 ft/lbs, the 725 is one hell of a gun.

 

[383 240z]

I don't understand why an extension or deep socket would take away torque. But I have heard that a lot, and pretty sure tire shops used to use torque sticks or something, different length extensions for different torque values.

I am trying to get my leaf's off.

Because the bolt it rotating slightly against the rubber in the bushing. I'm betting that once you got the nut off, the bolt would not budge?? As for guns I used an IR 231C when I started wrenching, I then upgraded to a IR 2131QT, then I bought my favorite gun so far, the IR 2135ti I love that thing. Keith

 

[nehog]

My IR 231 will spin off axle nuts easy as pie when I can't break 'em loose with a breaker bar!

 

[jeff000]

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?item_ID=646291&group_ID=683065

Unit delivers an outstanding 1,190 ft. lb. (1,613 N•m) of Bolt Break Away Torque!
810 ft. lb. (1,094 N•m) of Recommended Working Torque

Might have to try and find a used one. Damn.

Because the bolt it rotating slightly against the rubber in the bushing. I'm betting that once you got the nut off, the bolt would not budge?? As for guns I used an IR 231C when I started wrenching, I then upgraded to a IR 2131QT, then I bought my favorite gun so far, the IR 2135ti I love that thing. Keith

The bolts go into a welded nut in the frame. As soon as all the threads were out of the nut, the bolt came out by hand easy.

 

[57c]

The extension weakens the torque output because it twists and springs back with every blow of the impact wrench.

Picture yourself using a hammer and chisel. then picture the same hammer and chisel, but with a valve spring on the end of the chisel. you would be hitting just as hard, but every time you hit, the spring would be absorbing some of the impact. The extension or deep socket is the same thing, just a torsion spring instead of a coil spring.

That aside, there is a difference. I have a chicago pneumatic that beats about any other 1/2 impact. And upgrading to 1/2" hose and Industrial style quick connects for air flow makes it even better, not a huge difference, but noticeable.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

in my opinion the mg725 is by far the best impact out there,i've tried them all over the past 28 years or so.

I've heard a lot of that...but I'm also hearing the MAC AWP050 stands shoulder to shoulder with it, some would argue a hair more powerful (IMHO I think you could put the 2 together in the #1 spot, and depending on who you talk to in terms of the ergonomics/layout of it, some people like the MAC a bit better then the MG.

Personally, after fondling the MAC I like the layout of the MAC and would love to get one. BUT between the fact my MAC guy doesn't want to wiggle too much on it and my SO guy will wiggle on the MG and I can get a green one... If I can sell the cordless SO drill I have in the classifieds, I'll get the SO. I would probably pay MSRP for a Green MAC AWP050 if such a beast would exist.

 

[abvw]

Torque sticks are all the same length. The female end twists more because the thinner shank "absorbs" the blow from impact wrenches, thus limiting the torque output on the male end.

Torque sticks only works with impact wrenches. They work like a regular extension when you're using it with handles.

 

[WVBrady]

...I am using a deep socket, a swivel head, and then a 6" extension...

I think that the swivel head reduces the torque more than the deep socket and the extension, the bigger the angle the more it reduces it.

As others have mentioned, a shorter, bigger hose, and bigger internal diameter fittings will help. Also, increasing the psi of your compressor. If it is 90 psi at the compressor, it will drop quite a bit at the wrench.

 

[metaldad]

they do wear out.
i used a milwaukee 3/4 electric rated @380 ft#. i was able to hold the socket still while pulling the trigger

 

[Skin]

I've owned them all. From most powerful to least, however they're all so close you should really base it off noise and balance, but power wise its

AWP050
MG725
IR2135QTIMAX
MG725 with muffler installed

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I break out the Swench

 

[Kev442]

I just experienced the extension robbing power thing a couple weeks ago, killed off what seemed like half the impacting power. My ancient Bluepoint is definitely weaker than my newer Earthquake, but it still managed to break a bolt right off last weekend.

 

[ADSR]

I've heard a lot of that...but I'm also hearing the MAC AWP050 stands shoulder to shoulder with it, some would argue a hair more powerful (IMHO I think you could put the 2 together in the #1 spot, and depending on who you talk to in terms of the ergonomics/layout of it, some people like the MAC a bit better then the MG.

Personally, after fondling the MAC I like the layout of the MAC and would love to get one. BUT between the fact my MAC guy doesn't want to wiggle too much on it and my SO guy will wiggle on the MG and I can get a green one... If I can sell the cordless SO drill I have in the classifieds, I'll get the SO. I would probably pay MSRP for a Green MAC AWP050 if such a beast would exist.

Proto makes the gun for MAC.

Trident always has it on sale for 250 bucks.


http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240623

 

[larry_g]

Now that you have all the information on rattle guns, Tell us about your air system. There are times that an insufficient air delivery system will let you down. Are you trying to pass air though a small regulator, an under sized hose with small fittings? What do you think the air pressure is at the GUN. So before you find the gun guilty, eliminate the other common problems.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[92integra]

m18 fuel that air tool **** is a thing of the past!

 

[ibedayank]

m18 fuel that air tool **** is a thing of the past!

So they make a 1inch impact gun or bigger? post up the links

 

[92integra]

damn you got me there!

 

[thebeekeeper1]

I've only used two, but the cheapie one can't hold a candle to the IR 2135tiMax. Same compressor, night and day difference in removal torque. It's honestly the best money I ever spent.

 

[jeff000]

Now that you have all the information on rattle guns, Tell us about your air system. There are times that an insufficient air delivery system will let you down. Are you trying to pass air though a small regulator, an under sized hose with small fittings? What do you think the air pressure is at the GUN. So before you find the gun guilty, eliminate the other common problems.

lg
no neat sig line

I have a two stage 60 gallon porter cable with a Parker regulator.
Combination of 3/8 instrument air tubing (Electrician/Instrumentation tech in the oilfield) and 3/8 nylon hose. 1/4 into the gun though. I get 105psi at the gun, any more than that and it just exhausts it.

m18 fuel that air tool **** is a thing of the past!

M18 fuel stuff is ****. That impact has nothing on my mastercraft pneumatic impact.
I have the 1/2 impact, drill and small impact for sale. My Dewalt stuff is much nicer to use.

 

[ADSR]

M18 fuel stuff is ****. That impact has nothing on my mastercraft pneumatic impact.

LOL, you're joking, right?

 

[jeff000]

LOL, you're joking, right?

It's garbage. It does NOT have more power than my mastercraft.
It has more than my Dewalt 1/2" though.

 

[colin39]

Now that you have all the information on rattle guns, Tell us about your air system. There are times that an insufficient air delivery system will let you down. Are you trying to pass air though a small regulator, an under sized hose with small fittings? What do you think the air pressure is at the GUN. So before you find the gun guilty, eliminate the other common problems.

lg
no neat sig line

These are all valid items ^^^^^^^ I have an old ir 2135ti one of the 1st its gotta be 12 years plus and was my every day workhorse until recently, when I placed her on light dutys. Its now my work van gun , now she was struggling in the work shop, an we use a large quiet modern compressor, but on very thin air lines on pull out hoses. Now my van has a modern pto with large bore piping and I run a large bore hose and fittings for a 1inch gun, so use an adapter for my ir, and she has a hole new lease of life and hasnt in nearly 12months broken a sweat and I havent yet had to break out the 1inch monster.

 

[monomach]

I don't understand why an extension or deep socket would take away torque. But I have heard that a lot, and pretty sure tire shops used to use torque sticks or something, different length extensions for different torque values.

I am trying to get my leaf's off. And to even get my impact on I drilled a hole through the body under the rear bumper cap moldings, I am using a deep socket, a swivel head, and then a 6" extension. Impact does nothing but make a lot of noise. 2' breaker bar and about 80% of my 150lb max effort gets the bolt out. But after doing 1 of 4 bolts this way, I don't want to do the other 3.
The nuts on the u bolts holding my leafs to the axle are similarly tight, so that's 8 more nuts. Unless I just cut the u bolt.
I have been using penetrating oil, not really helping.

A lot of shops fasten those U bolts by torquing them down with a gun, then heating them red hot and torquing them again, ruining the threads.

When removing one that's been treated like that, it's time for the king mack-daddy grand-poobah of disassembly tools...

You don't really plan on reusing the U-bolts, anyway, right? Those should always be replaced.

 

[ADSR]

It's garbage. It does NOT have more power than my mastercraft.
It has more than my Dewalt 1/2" though.

Bro, you must be confused with something else. The milwaukee fuel m18 has more power than anything on the market right now.

Their 1/2 full size impact has 1100ft/lbs reverse. I own it and it's no BS. It makes most Air impacts look like toys.


http://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/cordless/2763-22

 

[bcradio]

So they make a 1inch impact gun or bigger? post up the links

BOOM:

+

Done!

Bro, you must be confused with something else. The milwaukee fuel m18 has more power than anything on the market right now.

Their 1/2 full size impact has 1100ft/lbs reverse. I own it and it's no BS. It makes most Air impacts look like toys.


http://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/cordless/2763-22

He obviously is, or is just a fanboy for the yellow, orange, green, or blue tools.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Proto makes the gun for MAC.

Trident always has it on sale for 250 bucks.


http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240623

I get what your saying but not 100% accurate...to be fair, Proto doesnt make it either... Stanley Black n Decker "makes" the impact and brands it MAC and Proto with some subtle differences.

Performance wise, same gun. Service wise...not so much. For me, its coming down to the MAC or the Snappy. Unless Trident comes down more in price.. at $199 I'll order one right away.

 

[jeff000]

You don't really plan on reusing the U-bolts, anyway, right? Those should always be replaced.

I always get new u bolts. I torqued them down last summer when I did some work. I'll angle grind them off though.

Bro, you must be confused with something else. The milwaukee fuel m18 has more power than anything on the market right now.

Their 1/2 full size impact has 1100ft/lbs reverse. I own it and it's no BS. It makes most Air impacts look like toys.

I know what I have. If it is supposed to have 1100 ft lbs, then the one I have is broken. But milwaukee service and warranty is garbage. They wouldn't replace a battery that was under a week old and wouldn't charge. Said I probably misused it or charged it at an improper voltage.

The impact driver doesn't have the power of my XRP dewalt. As it won't pull a 1.5" knock out through using a 1" socket, but my XRP will pull a 2" knock out through.
The circular saw guard catches on EVERYTHING thinner than a 2x4.
And the stupid things won't charge when it's cold out. Not that the charger likes genset power much anyways, so half the time it doesn't work anyways. These are 20 kilowatt generators to megawatt generators.

I bought a lot of the M18 fuel tools (Only one I don't have is the compact impact wrench) to replace my aging dewalt xrp li-on tools, that have been abused like crazy and still work, and when they do break I have never had an issue getting it fixed or replaced under warranty even when the last time I bought a tool or battery was 4 years ago.
So after buying such a huge amount in tools, it should be no wonder I am not happy with them after garbage service and lack luster performance.
I'll take my impact wrench in today and see what they say.

He obviously is, or is just a fanboy for the yellow, orange, green, or blue tools.

I really wanted to like the M18 tools, the battery gauge is enough for me to want to switch. And while the sawzall, angle grinder, and drill are basically the same as my dewalt but red. The impact driver just isn't up to the task like my dewalt, and the circular saw guard catching is just a huge piss off all the time.

 

[Hpozzuoli]

I love the mg725, mg325, and this napa gun. I think the napa is similar to the IR. I have a drawer full of guns that just plain ****. There is a difference in say Camphell Hausfield and Snap On. Most box store stuff is not very good. Another indicator is price. I don't know the numbers and specs. My experience is if I need it, it better work and the snap on stuff works. I like the boots they have too. It saves the body of the gun from ground rash.

 

[GSteg]

I know what I have. If it is supposed to have 1100 ft lbs, then the one I have is broken. But milwaukee service and warranty is garbage. They wouldn't replace a battery that was under a week old and wouldn't charge. Said I probably misused it or charged it at an improper voltage.

It's probably broken. You can't really charge it at an improper voltage if there is only one kind of charger for it. Obviously a dead battery wouldn't do much. The full size M18 fuel impact will hang with higher end air impact, but I suspect you will be happy with the power once things are sorted out.