The VISES of Garage Journal

[KMScott]

I've seen pics of vises with those pins you mentioned and mine does not have them. Just the set screws. The openings measure 2 7/8 x 2 7/8, with the depth at about 3". I've pm'd the seller and asked for the jaw measurements. If they fit then I'll pull the trigger. Still not sure what purpose the clips on the back of the jaws serve... Anyway, thanks drivesitfar!

Also, would you consider this vice a good candidate for an electrolysis bath? Been looking for an excuse to build one!

Here is a drawing of three different C1 Pipe jaws, I add the holes for the 3/8 pins, and a 1/4:20 thread in case the C1 jaws accepts the clips. Yours will work for the two pipe jaws you showed in a earlier post but you might need a spacer. I had to build a spacer for the C1 that Macklin needed for his C1. Greg is a member here. If you need a spacer then make it to these dimensions .188 x 1.735 x 2.735. I hope this helps you make a decision.

 

[drivesitfar]

67: yes an E bath might be the best way to go. be carful taking the pin out that holds the vise nut in so you don't break the case taking it apart. I've watched two of these awesome Wilton C1's getting taken apart by pros and it wasn't easy for them and they did Wilton bullets all the time. Check our Vise Repair 101 thread for a great Electrolysis thread in case you haven't read it or set up a tank before.

by the way with the little side screw holding the pipe jaws from falling out the spring type metal in the back is to give them a little give (flex) when you are tightening something up in the pipe jaws. the older ones were solid with the big pins, but since so many pipe jaws are missing on big vises of other brands i'm betting they broke so Wilton changed their design with a little give to keep from having to replace vises under warranty.

Andrew i thought i saw the lines for the swivel jaw too, but it's too far for me to go swivel jaw or not. the jaws are a little beat, but not a bad price for maybe a 150 pound Prentiss.

 

[balane]

Here's a 5" Shop King. These don't come up much, was lucky to get it. Only one pipe jaw though, hard to find extras anywhere.

.

 

[GarrettWeidman]

I don't think Reed, no oil holes, but I played with the pic to try to bring things up and got nothing, HOWEVER I believe I see a swivel jaw on that bad boy...

I think I see a swivel jaw as well, looks alot like this 7" rock island on craigslist in Tulsa. The mounting holes are different, maybe the tulsa Rock Island started its life on a swivel base.

 

[KMScott]

I don't think Reed, no oil holes, but I played with the pic to try to bring things up and got nothing, HOWEVER I believe I see a swivel jaw on that bad boy...

Outlaw, looks like a Prentiss to me, kind of close to these except not a swivel base. Bl00's #5 is real close, I agree it looks like a swivel jaw.

 

[Outlawmws]

Andrew called the swivel jaw first, I just didn't notice...

Well for me the mystery deepens:
pointed
Both Parker and Reed had feet like that:

Reed (in the examples I'm looking at) HAVE oil holes, and DON'T HAVE the back of the swivel flush like that (nor does the RI...)

Parker HAS a flush jaw back like that; But where is the infamous Parker collar? Did it go missing?

 

[Outlawmws]

Outlaw, looks like a Prentiss to me, kind of close to these except not a swivel base. Bl00's #5 is real close, I agree it looks like a swivel jaw.

KMS, those Prentiss have a drop off the back of the swivel, No?

 

[Outlawmws]

So Am I seeing Parker jaw inserts here?

Andrew, you may need to saddle up!

 

[drivesitfar]

does it look a little like my 6 inch jaw Prentiss #4 that does have a swivel jaw. i'm not sure the vise for sale has a swivel ability, but it might.

pretty sure it's a Prentiss and just not sure if swivel jaw or not

 

[67carl]

Here is a drawing of three different C1 Pipe jaws, I add the holes for the 3/8 pins, and a 1/4:20 thread in case the C1 jaws accepts the clips. Yours will work for the two pipe jaws you showed in a earlier post but you might need a spacer. I had to build a spacer for the C1 that Macklin needed for his C1. Greg is a member here. If you need a spacer then make it to these dimensions .188 x 1.735 x 2.735. I hope this helps you make a decision.

Thanks, looks like it's a go. By the way, I posted the wrong dimension earlier: the opening is 1 7/8" wide, not 2 7/8".

67: yes an E bath might be the best way to go. be carful taking the pin out that holds the vise nut in so you don't break the case taking it apart. I've watched two of these awesome Wilton C1's getting taken apart by pros and it wasn't easy for them and they did Wilton bullets all the time. Check our Vise Repair 101 thread for a great Electrolysis thread in case you haven't read it or set up a tank before.

by the way with the little side screw holding the pipe jaws from falling out the spring type metal in the back is to give them a little give (flex) when you are tightening something up in the pipe jaws. the older ones were solid with the big pins, but since so many pipe jaws are missing on big vises of other brands i'm betting they broke so Wilton changed their design with a little give to keep from having to replace vises under warranty.

I'll do due diligence by reading every thread I can before trying to disassemble. That little pin was my worry even before you mentioned it. It just looks like a ***** to get out without breaking something. It will get saturated w/penetrating fluid for days/weeks before I attempt anything.

Thanks guys!

 

[KMScott]

KMS, those Prentiss have a drop off the back of the swivel, No?

Yes they have a drop off, takes the Prentiss out. The jaws look close to a Parker but could be a C type too, especially if the tops were smoothed and blended some, looks well used. Curious to what it is. Some one going to buy it?

 

[AndrewH]

So Am I seeing Parker jaw inserts here?

Andrew, you may need to saddle up!

Haha, as tempting as it is, I've already picked up 330 lbs of iron this week and it's only Monday! I've had to start storing some on *gasp* the FLOOR! I'll let someone else looking for a large vise get this one. Besides, I've really gotta be selective on what I pick up as I've got plenty of vises that need parts as it is and this one looks like it'll definitely need a lot of work. Though.. If it was a swivel base, it'd already be in my garage

 

[drivesitfar]

My money is still on Prentiss and heck the stand is worth $50. if that isn't a crack in the back slide on top and i was a 2 hour drive more or less i'd probably take a crack at it because i don't own a 7 or 8 inch wide jaw vise. that said i'm guessing maybe 150 plus pounds since Prentiss made some pretty stout vises.

67: if any of the GJ guys live near you that have taken their Wiltons apart you might want to meet one of them in person and watch for the first pin removal. I like the ones that are one pin and not the 2 pin ones, but not really a fan of either. anybody close that frequents the thread? maybe BC when he gets back from vacation might help?

 

[KMScott]

Here is my 7" Prentiss swivel jaw, very heavy and missing the swivel base if it ever had one. I need to put this one at the top of my refinish list.

 

[drivesitfar]

looks pretty close? yours was designed for the swivel base and the one on Craigs is the non swivel, but still a close match?

nice vise by the way and leave it for a rainy day KM.

 

[David Jackson]

Yea; I saw that great looking ERON on page 889. It has a model number also; which mine seems to lack. Japanese, huh?
Thanks for the tip!

 

[David Jackson]

Well thanks for the reference! I looked at the link you sent and it would appear that the vice or (vise) I have (ERON) may have started life with a swivel base. Interesting. Also interesting that something Japanese, as ERON is, has been able to take such a beating over the years, especially as it has, apparently, been welded back together.
How can someone break that jaw? I am just curious.
Regards,

 

[Fretters]

Wrench - what cross-hatching?

The serrations on the jaw inserts.

In the jaws? Do I need to worry about that gouge?

Nope. That is completely inconsequential. I've seen casting defects/blow holes far worse than that. You do and will get knocks, gouges, scrapes etc. on any old equipment which has been used. It's par for the course.

 

[Fretters]

Also interesting that something Japanese, as ERON is, has been able to take such a beating over the years

The Japanese didn't make shonky kit. Japan is up there with England and America on their old kit.

especially as it has, apparently, been welded back together.
How can someone break that jaw? I am just curious.
Regards,

Which jaw? Rear jaw usually gets damaged from beating, front jaw is usually from beating, excess leverage on a piece else being used as a press.

 

[Lasu]

cleaned and painted

 

[Carla]

Andrew called the swivel jaw first, I just didn't notice...

Well for me the mystery deepens:
pointed
Both Parker and Reed had feet like that:

Reed (in the examples I'm looking at) HAVE oil holes, and DON'T HAVE the back of the swivel flush like that (nor does the RI...)

Parker HAS a flush jaw back like that; But where is the infamous Parker collar? Did it go missing?

Outlaw,

I'd suspect Scott has it right, that one looks Prentiss to me, as well.

From a 1920 catalogue listing, it would be a No.6 Prentiss, 7" jaw, opens 11", 184 lbs.

For whatever its worth, the Reed vises made before sometime in the late '30's don't have the oil holes like the later ones.

cheers

Carla

 

[Fretters]

cleaned and painted.

By 'eck that's bright. Nice work.

 

[GETRIDAONE]

While everyone is looking at swivel jaws. I was thinking Prentiss on this one ??? It might make 5"

 

[joe.striper]

When I bought my vises yesterday I also picked up this vise anvil. I researched it but couldn't find anything much on these. The second pic is it mounted in a Wilton 8300.

Are these uncommon? They make a lot of sense. Mounted into my Wilton 5" bullet I could do a lot with this as a hobbyist.

 

[Fretters]

Are these uncommon? They make a lot of sense. Mounted into my Wilton 5" bullet I could do a lot with this as a hobbyist.

They're probably one of those "decent ideas in theory but a terrible one in reality" things which never really made it into large scale use. The last place you want to be hammering away on something with any more than fairly light taps is within vice jaws.

 

[joe.striper]

They're probably one of those "decent ideas in theory but a terrible one in reality" things which never really made it into large scale use. The last place you want to be hammering away on something with any more than fairly light taps is within vice jaws.

Thanks Fretters. That's why I asked. Makes sense. Probably used for Tin shaping and not heavy steel work.

I gotta get me an anvil.....and so it goes!

 

[drivesitfar]

Joe: maybe it was meant to put in a blacksmith vise since they were meant to be hammered on. i wouldn't put in the jaws of a regular vise unless as you say it was more of a light shaping. just an FYI an anvil is meant to hit hot metal on and not cold so if you are going to heat up metal then yes search out an anvil and if only for beating on cold steel a good hunk of RR track or I beam is a better answer and a lot cheaper.

Get: it's a little beefy in some areas to be a Prentiss, but it does have all the lines. i don't think Prentiss on that one, but it does look like a good old vise.

Lasu: very nice spiffing up. you'll need sunglasses on inside the shop working on that nice vise now.

DJ: Don't forget Japan and China made and maybe still make Swords that have lasted 1000's of years and are of the best steel in the world. The importers could not afford to buy that quality, ship it and pay all the fees involved and have a market for that for the masses so they bought the less expensive and not as well made steel products to sell cheaper in the US. a vise might still last for a very long time even with the less expensive and lower quality metal if not used as a press or an anvil.

breaking a dynamic jaw off is fairly easy is you want to. just grab a nice long piece of pipe to put over the handle and over tighten as much as you can. presses were designed for most of that work and if you can't keep the piece in the vise get some copper jaws or use some other tool.

Carla: thanks for the specs on that big 7" Prentiss and the great point about the Reed's oil holes

 

[va.grouseman]

Previously posted by David Jackson.

Well thanks for the reference! I looked at the link you sent and it would appear that the vice or (vise) I have (ERON) may have started life with a swivel base. Interesting. Also interesting that something Japanese, as ERON is, has been able to take such a beating over the years, especially as it has, apparently, been welded back together.
How can someone break that jaw? I am just curious.
Regards,
David Jackson is offline Report Post
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David, even Sears had some very good vises outsourced to Japan. They resemble a Columbian. Their is one 8 incher on the forum somewhere. I'll post it if I can find it again.

 

[PghJKB]

Blue Frog
Here is another example of a PYRAMID vise. This one is a knock off of a Wilton Bullet.

Originally I thought mine was some obscure US made manufacturer. Now, not so sure. So far I have seen two PYRAMIDs, one (mine) a Wilton knock off, the other (yours), a Vacuum Vise knock off. Both PYRAMIDs are clamp ons, have the same style knob on the clamp screw. Your double head rotates 360, my single head nods 45 in both directions. Note the "cute" tear drop shaped anvil.

In the pics I have included some shots of my PYRAMID with one of my Vacuum vises (according to the box, my vacuum vise was made in Taiwan for Kreesge's)

Yours has a round nose, mine is bullet shaped, both have PYRAMID on one side, with no other markings.

Right now, based on the fact that PYRAMID made two models (that we know of) and both are knock offs, and the similarity with the vacuum vise is "off the charts", my guess for the COO is Japan or Taiwan.


JKB

 

[rmsg0040]

York 100 and 150. Getting there slowly ...

 

[bluebolt]

Blue Frog
Here is another example of a PYRAMID vise. This one is a knock off of a Wilton Bullet.

Originally I thought mine was some obscure US made manufacturer. Now, not so sure. So far I have seen two PYRAMIDs, one (mine) a Wilton knock off, the other (yours), a Vacuum Vise knock off. Both PYRAMIDs are clamp ons, have the same style knob on the clamp screw. Your double head rotates 360, my single head nods 45 in both directions. Note the "cute" tear drop shaped anvil.

In the pics I have included some shots of my PYRAMID with one of my Vacuum vises (according to the box, my vacuum vise was made in Taiwan for Kreesge's)

Yours has a round nose, mine is bullet shaped, both have PYRAMID on one side, with no other markings.

Right now, based on the fact that PYRAMID made two models (that we know of) and both are knock offs, and the similarity with the vacuum vise is "off the charts", my guess for the COO is Japan or Taiwan.


JKB

That's a pretty interesting little vise. It would be great for light duty tasks where that pivoting feature would help with getting something a the best angle for working on it.

 

[AndrewH]

So Am I seeing Parker jaw inserts here?

Andrew, you may need to saddle up!

I just wanted everyone to know, before you rush over there for this vise it has a crack on the slide. I'm guessing it's on the top like all Prentiss vises seem to have. I was really tempted to go buy it, but I can deal with most things, however I don't buy vises with cracks. I learned my lesson early on, so unless I can get it for $100 it won't be coming with me, not worth it.

 

[PMD6]

I hope some of these US style vices ended up in the UK and I manage to get my hands on one

 

[Fretters]

I hope some of these US style vices ended up in the UK....

There are some over here. Saw a Yost a couple of month ago, and there was another one, (can't remember the maker), which the seller was trying to shift for weeks, so they are out there.

 

[ritzblitz]

There's a 7" swivel jaw swivel base on columbiana Craigslist. I guess that's ohio? Also has the crack down the slide.

 

[Crafty]

Crafty: i like your personality already and happy you joined the Journal. Are you able to take a few more pictures of your vise and especially the bottom up or taken off the bench and turned upside down so maybe the members with Record vises can help you help that old English vise live as she was meant to? good luck with that.

Its not pretty!

Interesting stop plate & fixing..

There is no tension at all on the spring, it barely touches that peg, I'm wondering if it was longer and curled around the peg and the end has snapped off ?

With the stop plate off you can see the blade, it sits in a slot of that bar, thats actually the bottom of the block that the screw runs in.

When its working properly the tension provided by the spring would twist the blade clockwise, that would force the block up against the screw thread.
When the QR lever is pushed in the blade flattens out, and the block drops, allowing the jaw to be pulled out as the screw thread isn't in contact with the block any more.

I did get some tension on the spring by spinning the blade through 180 degrees, this sort of worked, until you used the QR, once it was released the blade would fall out of the slot, letting the block drop and thus stopping the whole thing from working at all. I think this happened because there was too much tension on it.

Finally, not much I can do about this, part of the casting is missing, meaning one of the bolts is missing and has nothing to screw in to anyway as it looks like part of the casting chipped out. There is just a single bolt that holds this on in the opposite corner to the one pictured - one bolt is enough to hold it, but its not ideal.

 

[Lasu]

Nice work.

Thanks

@ drivesitfar

Here is the right color .

 

[AndrewH]

There's a 7" swivel jaw swivel base on columbiana Craigslist. I guess that's ohio? Also has the crack down the slide.

Jeez! That's the 3rd 7" vise in less than 2 weeks! They're coming out of hiding, maybe next week it'll be 8" vises!

 

[oldldh]

Jeez! That's the 3rd 7" vise in less than 2 weeks! They're coming out of hiding, maybe next week it'll be 8" vises!

Don't know about 8"ers, but this 6" Columbian just appeared on Ebay...

Looks like a "No Reserve" auction, and---

Includes "Free Shipping"!!!

 

[drivesitfar]

JKB: I really like that PYRAMID vise you own. in fact since it might be a copy can i have 2 please? awesome vise and i bet very handy. looks like old school steel too so a good copy of a Wilton bullet or maybe Wilton copied theirs.

Crafty: I'll look more at your Record later, but the guys that own those awesome vises and understand how to repair the mech on the quick release hopefully can help you make it work again if it isn't now. nice job on the pictures too.

Oldie: Too small throw it back and maybe we'll catch a bigger one.
thanks for checking our favorite auction sites though and please continue to. by the way can you PM me before you post so i can a 5 minute head start on Andrew if you find an 8 or 9 incher you don't want to buy???