New garage - very dissapointed!!!

[LB-1911]

I got a response from my ultimatum. I said I needed a written plan and timeline by next week or legal would handle moving forward. They are coming out w/ engineering firm on Tues. Will report back outcome of meeting.

Good Luck

(you're already well versed when it comes to documentation)

 

[santagary]

Spend a $ and have your own engineer in attendance or preceding theirs!

 

[Streetbu]

Damn that stinks... But think of it this way. If this is the worse thing that happens for a few decades you're doing good! Keep your head up and mind in the game, CYA like you seem to be doing and it will get resolved somehow. Might cost a little more $ but at least it'll be done right finally.

 

[Morrison]

That's funny and creepy haha

Sent from my Torque using Tapatalk

 

[4x4_G30_Sportvan]

Spend a $ and have your own engineer in attendance or preceding theirs!

I think this is excellent advice.

The contractor should make you completely whole, including all your legal expenses, and direct costs of lost work, temp storage, etc.

We are supporting your efforts, but I know you need to keep quiet for the time being.

 

[ACDNate]

Wow this is a whole lot of ****. Hope things work out well for you w/o too lengthy a court case.

 

[CanadaBoy]

I have no real experience in doing foundation work, but to me With all of this talk about tons of rebar and filling the blocks why not just throw up some forms and pour concrete? To me block walls seem old school, and even in modern days the DIY approach to foundation walls... Not meaning to offend anyone, just wondering.

CMU is usually used if the concrete place is pretty far...concrete sets too much before delivery.

 

[CanadaBoy]

Very sad story. Could have been prevented so many ways if one party or another would have just paused for a second. No bond beam and rebar supports into the foundation? Really bad design foundation, imho. I am glad you lawyered up as ultimately it is the only way it is going to be solved. People always say they will make it right but rarely does it happen to both party's satisfaction which is why the lawyers are needed.

 

[justsam]

I realize you must give the contractor the opportunity for remedy, but it always puzzles me if they are competent to make it right, and satisfy you and the now oversight committee, why did they just not do that in the first place?

If this is the GC, do you really want him to continue with your build after this foundation repair? Is this the honest man that will that will admit to his mistakes, do everything in his power to convince you he is the right person for the job and go beyond the call or is he the type that will say "I'll teach this SOB to mess with me and try to recover costs at every corner?

I do not envy you in the least, because I have been in a much smaller scale construction issue that we both had to just wind up disappointed and disgusted. Now at least there is the power of public references such as YELP, FaceBook, Angies, etc.

 

[officer]

I am a licensed contractor for what it is worth. In my humble opinion your footers are not below the frost line. This would explain why it was good before winter. Did you have a permit/inspections? I wish you well. Harry.

 

[Shoester]

Any updates Tempest?

 

[Tempest 455]

Feet dragging.................. They tell me they are going to fix it but talk is cheap. I'm about to pony up, pull some 401K and sue them to tear it down and start over.

The main problem is the fill. I will post details later when I can.

What a F'ing nightmare!

 

[stage20]

did not waant to read that post from you. hopefully you can get some waste-of-your-time cash out of them

 

[SALIV8]

Sorry tempest. It breaks my heart to see that nice shop on those foundation and wall issues. I'm rooting for ya and hope you get the gc to remedy all the issues correctly.

 

[JakeKohl]

Indeed. Sorry to hear that. Once you get the legal action moving, it should go pretty quickly...hopefully it results in something other than a debt the contractor can't/won't ever pay.

 

[sac02]

...hopefully it results in something other than a debt the contractor can't/won't ever pay.

Unfortunately that scenario is all too common - contractor/his LLC (or whatever) either declares bankruptcy or goes out of business and you are SOL on your debt.

Then one month later he is back in business registered under another new company name, no worse for wear, doing the same thing to more unsuspecting people...

 

[over40pirate]

Not sure if I missed it, but did the GC have insurance? Would his Liability insurance cover this?

 

[Zeke]

Not sure if I missed it, but did the GC have insurance? Would his Liability insurance cover this?

Or a contractor's bond. But you have to prove negligence first, or whatever it's called. Still, I'd try to not use much of my own money to fight this until I have exhausted every resource both public and private.

 

[LB-1911]

Feet dragging.................. They tell me they are going to fix it but talk is cheap. I'm about to pony up, pull some 401K and sue them to tear it down and start over.

The main problem is the fill. I will post details later when I can.

What a F'ing nightmare!

Hang in there - Have you considered / checked into raising the structure, get a proper foundation under it and setting it back down?

Might be worth a call to a Bldg mover

 

[akdiesel]

Tempest 455

Just found your thread and read through it. What a mess. Hope it works out with a product you can at least drive on and be confident it holds.
I had issues with a concrete contractor as well due to removal costs. He mentioned suing me for the cost and then I mentioned lawyer back and it stopped. I simply called his bluff. I know not all cases will meet those results but good luck.
It was mentioned about building a new wall out he outside parameters maybe 3 feet out further. Gives you a bigger shop. Then maybe you only have to tear down a couple of existing rows to get a good compact base once the new footer and outer wall are in place.

 

[Zeke]

Tempest 455

Just found your thread and read through it. What a mess. Hope it works out with a product you can at least drive on and be confident it holds.
I had issues with a concrete contractor as well due to removal costs. He mentioned suing me for the cost and then I mentioned lawyer back and it stopped. I simply called his bluff. I know not all cases will meet those results but good luck.
It was mentioned about building a new wall out he outside parameters maybe 3 feet out further. Gives you a bigger shop. Then maybe you only have to tear down a couple of existing rows to get a good compact base once the new footer and outer wall are in place.

Interesting and practical thought to build a buttress to fix this. Could even figure out some sort of planter for landscaping of a raised garden. This is truly an approach from lemons to lemonade.

 

[Tyberius]

On the subject of fixes:

What's the minimum fix that needs to be made to make this thing serviceable?

Can you test the pad? Destructively with a core, non-destructively with sonar or something?

Are the cells of the block accessible? If so, would there be any advantage to filling them with whatever product?

What about jacking the existing block? Would something like steel pier (perma jack) or concrete jacking work?

 

[Eriehunter]

Looks to me like your footer isn't deep enough to get below frost line, the inside of the building is fill. With the colder than expected winter we had the "fill" inside the garage under the floor along the back/side walls froze and pushed the back/side wall out. hence the large crack. The footer should have been deeper, there should have been rebar pins drilled into the footer and rebar run vertically inside the block, then grouted. with the amount/ depth of fill inside the walls that still may not have stopped it with the extreme temps we have had. I see you are in Columbus and I'm in Erie, Pa and in that 3 hour driving distance there is an extreme difference in usual winter temps. Your builders in that area may not be use to seeing what a hard freeze can do.

You have in essence built a reverse basement (dirt on the inside) the fill would have to be extra dry and gravel. and that still may not have stopped it. On that build for sure you needed engineering supervision (which I am not) but I have worked on buildings similar to this design.

Good luck

Bryan

They may be able to shore/ jack the wall on the outside, repair cracked foundation, remove shoring, then truck some clean fill in around the outside and grade the area to prevent this from happening again.

You also may be able to get some free dirt trucked in if there is a large construction site that needs to dispose of dirt.

You may also consider removing the concrete floor inside and having some of the fill dug out and compacted in lifts (after foundation is fixed)

The extra fill around the outside will give support to the outside of the block walls and will also provide an insulation around the foundation to help stop heaving. from the looks of things it will take a **** load of tri axle dump trucks. The fill on the outside should be put down in lifts and compacted.

 

[Tempest 455]

Sorry for the delay. Has been a slow process. Again, sorry to be limited but until this is fixed, I need to be. Can tell you what has been done.

Engineer came out twice. Did the soil compression tests. Soil was good around and under footers. Footers were excavated and inspected and checked for cracking, none. Core samples drilled and concrete slab thickness and distance of fill underneath to underside of slab checked.

Conclusion was same as post back a couple months ago. The fill had not been compacted and not done in stages properly. It settled (a lot) causing slab to move to outside. Engineer discussed with me the plans to resolve issues which sound reasonable.

That's all I can say at the moment. Will post more later when they start.

 

[hoho98925]

Tempest, sorry for the issues and the length of time it's taking to resolve this. Best of luck to you on a successful and satisfactory repair.

 

[mike91lx]

just read the whole thread. sorry to hear about the trouble but glad to see at least progress is being made now

 

[saceone]

I have reached my maximum "garage gone wrong thread" limit for today. I hope everything gets fixed to your liking!

 

[yardpro]

here they cannot stack block the day after a slab pour...

 

[NUTTSGT]

As most others here, I'm patiently waiting to hear the final results and outcome.

 

[Kevin54]

Damn Tempest.......I hope everything works out for you. I just now got caught back up on this. When they start in, make sure you get pics that you can fill us in later with. It's understandable that you can't say much at this time. Good Luck man!!!!!!

 

[kyle@hcb]

Yikes! Sorry to read about your issues. In for a resolution.

 

[Chuck]

Old post, I know, but couldn't not comment.

I don't see:
1. a single vertical rebar dowel
2. a single piece of vertical rebar
3. any horizontal joint reinforcing
4. any horizontal rebar for bond-beams

All of these would be crucial for a wimpy 8" CMU retaining wall even if it's only 8 courses high.

I think I see some grouted CMU cells, but they are too far apart and it looks like at the corner only one cell is grouted. And even if they put rebar in those grouted cells, without dowels, these are wasted effort.

Corners should have 3 grouted cells with vertical rebar married up with rebar dowels in each cell.

The vertical wood bracing along the back wall looks like a dead giveaway that they were afraid that backfilling would break the wall. This kind of failure does NOT come from getting CMU on the footing too early. This kind of failure can however result from backfilling a wall that is not strong enough to resist the lateral load applied during backfilling.

Yep, that would be my first guess. Insufficient wall strength. Not to mention, for that depth of fill on a retaining wall, my "calibrated eyeball" says that footer's probably a couple of feet too narrow, and an unreinforced footer without doweled in rebar there would be a huge no-no.

Just looking at the pictures, I certainly hope no engineer signed off on that design. That could cost someone their PE license if it was actually built that way to a stamped design. If the PE did a proper design and the contractor then built what's in the pictures, then the liability is all on the contractor.

...The next question is, how do you fix it? I can think of a couple ways to stabilize what's there and 'repair' the damage but it won't ever be the same...

Dammit, this *****. Sorry, man. Wish I could help.

Agreed. There aren't always good, reliable fixes for an improperly designed retaining wall that don't involve jacking and shoring your building, completely re-doing the foundation from the footer up, and a whole lot of pain. That really *****. Hope your builder or engineer has good insurance.

...The engineer might think it looks good on flat peice of priperty but not with that severe slope and no backfill on lower walls

To look at it, my opinion would be to doubt an engineer ever saw it, and if one did, I doubt that foundation is what was designed.

I have no real experience in doing foundation work, but to me With all of this talk about tons of rebar and filling the blocks why not just throw up some forms and pour concrete? To me block walls seem old school, and even in modern days the DIY approach to foundation walls... Not meaning to offend anyone, just wondering.

...Good question. Did you notice that the workers were able to ready the pad for concrete in 5 days? Hand built forms would have added time and money. The type that are used in basement walls that are assembled and set by a crane are expensive.

The block wall and poured wall are going to require roughly the same amount of rebar and foundation prep, plus form work as Zeke pointed out. For a fairly low retaining wall like this, reinforced and grouted CMU usually ends up being more cost effective for the same strength overall, because of the huge savings in labor and formwork.


OP, obviously know you can't say much, but fingers crossed for a good resolution.

I've been involved in litigation for some pretty massive construction jobs gone wrong, and put simply, you can never have too many photos when something is under construction, even with a great contractor. Well done on that. A good contractor will never mind you taking a ton of pictures, because he's got nothing to worry about. If your contractor doesn't like you taking a ton of pictures, take more, because he's probably doing something wrong.

 

[Cruster]

My gut feeling is that the garage was built on fill that was not properly compacted. Agree with the others on documenting the problem with good, date stamped photographs. Any conversations with the contractor should be documented with a memo for the record made immediately after.

This is my worst nightmare in the flesh. I'm sorry for your hardship. I had my concrete guy fill and compact, and compact and compact til he got annoyed with me. But it was in hopes of avoiding this very thing. Best wishes on a solution that you can live with. Great advice in the posts. Let us know how it goes.

 

[Tempest 455]

Well almost 5 months to day the of notifying them of the problem, they are here starting the construction repairs. Thanks for all the positive comments. Hate to keep you hanging. Can't post pics until this is done and to my satisfaction (you know why).

When done and I agree it was done to satisfaction, I will post up pics of repairs. Yes, I'm taking tons of pics again.

 

[Beemer533]

Glad to hear it sounds like you are getting this resolved... It was painful enough for me to just to read about it, I can't imagine what you were going through!

You seemed to handle it pretty well though.. Looking forward to seeing the updated pics

 

[rieferman]

NICE. I'm really glad to hear this, and can't wait to see pics soon.

 

[Tempest 455]

Glad to hear it sounds like you are getting this resolved... It was painful enough for me to just to read about it, I can't imagine what you were going through!

You seemed to handle it pretty well though.. Looking forward to seeing the updated pics

Thanks. I've kept my cool on here but trust me, I've had "some" moments and actually had to tell the owner I was DONE dealing w/ the salesman that sold the job.

 

[volleyball]

Good for you. I wonder if you are going to be asked to be a reference?

 

[Andretti]

You've had so much aggravation with this project but I'm happy to see it's finally getting repaired for you. I'm sure it's been hard enough dealing with all of this and adding to that, the time and effort you've spent keeping your thread updated. Just want you to know it's appreciated.

 

[SALIV8]

Tempest very glad to hear repairs have started!! Can't wait to see your man cave whole again.