which lic do I need to buy/sell Freon?

[skipskip]

there seem to be a plethora of licenses on the EPA site.

which one do I need?

I just buy Freon and re-sell it , usually in small amounts , no more than 30 pound cans

 

[nehog]

Which Freon?

 

[Tarheelgarage]

Freon was industry trade name for R12

What refrigerant gases you talking about?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Who are you selling it to,are they licensed?

 

[Fireball027]

I have bought 30 pound bottles many times of R134 in NY without being asked for a license. However I do have one for Ontario, but never needed to show it.

How much and where are you trying to buy it. Also are you trying to sell the whole can to people or recharge systems and sell it to them that way.

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

If you do resell some freon, let me know as Im in the market for a 20oz can for my 1982 Nissan PU for no more than $25 shipped.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

If you do resell some freon, let me know as Im in the market for a 20oz can for my 1982 Nissan PU for no more than $25 shipped.

If you can find r12 for those prices Ill take all you've got!
I started using 414b in place of r12 almost 20 years ago.

 

[skipskip]

Here is the description from an auction today



LOT OF 6 CANS DUPONT FREON 12 REFRIGERANT, SET OF GAUGES, 1 CAN R134, MUST HAVE PROPER CERTIFICATE TO PURCHASE



R134 was a 30 pound can, in the box and sealed

the whole lot went for $35


So if I bought this ( I didnt) and sold it to someone on the list, what cert would I need?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

You could buy it with a simple ase certification card,Its tracking who you resold it to that could be complicated.

 

[HaroRider]

EPA-608 or 609

 

[KinzeMech]

EPA 608 will let you buy R22, and R12 in 30# cans. EPA 609 will let you buy R12 in 12 oz cans.

I'm recalling from memory many years back, so I'm willing to stand corrected if someone has better info.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

608 & 609 can purchase Class I & II refrigerants (CFC-12 or HCFC containing blends). Sales of containers 20# or less of Class I & II for MVAC use is restricted to 609, unless you are purchasing for retail sales only and the seller must keep records of the purchaser's company name & address for 3 years.

In other words, if you're not 609 Certified, even if you have a 608 Universal Certification, you can't buy Class I & II refrigerants in containers smaller than 20#.

Tommy

 

[mygarageone]

I am now installing a A/C system a client bought through the internet , how does this stuff happen. I can't buy diddly squat with out my proper certs .

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

Actually anyone over the age 18 can buy refrigerant of any type as long as its for sale. Your just not allowed to handle it i.e. charge and recover without a license. On Amazon they sell 30Lb jugs of R22 for $265 shipped and all you need is to send then a copy of your EPA Cert OR a statement that you are only buying it to have a someone else who is licensed handle it. Anyway 18 and over no problemo-amigo. Do I think its wrong becasue I'm licensed and certified, well Im not one of those HVAC Tech posters on Amazon that reply to the seller and his satisfied DIY customers with hate mail reply, lawsuits and death. Just to many other things more important going on in the word to get worked up over.

R22 Refrigerant, 30 Lb Disposable Tank $264

 

[mygarageone]

Actually anyone over the age 18 can buy refrigerant of any type as long as its for sale. Your just not allowed to handle it i.e. charge and recover without a license. On Amazon they sell 30Lb jugs of R22 for $265 shipped and all you need is to send then a copy of your EPA Cert OR a statement that you are only buying it to have a someone else who is licensed handle it. Anyway 18 and over no problemo-amigo. Do I think its wrong becasue I'm licensed and certified, well Im not one of those HVAC Tech posters on Amazon that reply to the seller and his satisfied DIY customers with hate mail reply, lawsuits and death. Just to many other things more important going on in the word to get worked up over.

R22 Refrigerant, 30 Lb Disposable Tank $264

It's the wholesales who are deathly afraid to sell you this stuff with out your lic.

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

It's the wholesales who are deathly afraid to sell you this stuff with out your lic.

IMO and from experience, its whoever has an interdependent relationship with the HVAC industry and community. Iv been told by one supply house I buy from "we'd rather put you in our system as an independent contractor then an HVAC landlord, if that's OK. We don't want to ruffle any feathers with other clientele."

Another time after passing my EPA universal, but had not yet graduated HVAC school bought 30 Lbs R22 to start servicing my rentals. When my instructor found out he asked me not to tell anyone until a few months after graduation becasue his brother who owns one of the local HVAC companies would give him and the school a very hard time. So there is allot of phobia out there for anyone who is not a contractor or working under one. And even more so for HVAC certified landlords as they represent allot of lost business IMO.

 

[mygarageone]

Yea , I have one supplier who has never ask for my lic and another who I spend a lot of money with wouldn't sell to me until they saw the lic.

 

[210Hardtop]

Any market anymore for R11

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Any market anymore for R11

Not really. It's been banned from production since 95...

Tommy

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Here is the description from an auction today



LOT OF 6 CANS DUPONT FREON 12 REFRIGERANT, SET OF GAUGES, 1 CAN R134, MUST HAVE PROPER CERTIFICATE TO PURCHASE



R134 was a 30 pound can, in the box and sealed

the whole lot went for $35


So if I bought this ( I didnt) and sold it to someone on the list, what cert would I need?

You must be 609 certified to purchase Type I & Type II refrigerants unless you buy it for resale purposes only, and the seller must keep your company name & address on file for three years...

Tommy

 

[kaffine]

I am now installing a A/C system a client bought through the internet , how does this stuff happen. I can't buy diddly squat with out my proper certs .

The sale of components and or systems is not restricted only the sale of refrigerant is restricted. Also if it is R410a it isn't a restricted refrigerant anyways neither is R134a. Although you still can't vent them to the atmosphere they must be recovered.

EPA FAQ about sales of refrigerants

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/608/sales/sales.html

 

[LS6 Tommy]

The sale of components and or systems is not restricted only the sale of refrigerant is restricted. Also if it is R410a it isn't a restricted refrigerant anyways neither is R134a. Although you still can't vent them to the atmosphere they must be recovered.

EPA FAQ about sales of refrigerants

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/608/sales/sales.html

Also, the sale of precharged equipment or components containing HCFCs has been banned for quite a while, so pretty much any new precharged items are legal for purchase...

Tommy

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

That explains why I see brand new, old stock R22 systems on super-sale, specifically the outdoor units, sold and shipped with no refrigerant, filled with nitrogen.

 

[Falcon67]

I used to buy R12 here for fixing auto AC units - first question was always "Is a copy of your license on file?". Haven't done it in years, so not sure what if anything changed.

 

[Falcon67]

Topic for another thread obviously, but that "fear factor" is bound to wear away at some point. I mean, I can buy a 4 ton heat pump from Amazon for $2000ish delivered and it's be $5K~8K local? Why not, and then try to bribe the local AC guy with $100 bills - $2000 saved buys a LOT of twice yearly service calls from a long term customer.

 

[Mike007]

IMO and from experience, its whoever has an interdependent relationship with the HVAC industry and community. Iv been told by one supply house I buy from "we'd rather put you in our system as an independent contractor then an HVAC landlord, if that's OK. We don't want to ruffle any feathers with other clientele."

Another time after passing my EPA universal, but had not yet graduated HVAC school bought 30 Lbs R22 to start servicing my rentals. When my instructor found out he asked me not to tell anyone until a few months after graduation becasue his brother who owns one of the local HVAC companies would give him and the school a very hard time. So there is allot of phobia out there for anyone who is not a contractor or working under one. And even more so for HVAC certified landlords as they represent allot of lost business IMO.

I can only speak for myself, as an HVAC contractor I'd prefer landlords just fix their stuff themselves rather then call me. Most are absolutely the cheapest PIA's I deal with. They just don't want to pay to fix anything correctly. Even when I warn them their tenants lives could be at stake.

On the flip side, something the OP may want to look into, in some states a landlord cannot perform plumbing, electric or HVAC repairs on their rentals without having a license in that field. It becomes a big liability if it's something that can causes a death. As a landlord myself, I work on my HVAC systems but call a licensed plumber or electrician for those trades. I keep the receipt on file to cover my a$$.

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

I love Amazon, but its sort of unfair. My daughter who is a software engineer working for major companies told me that Amazon sells so low to beat out the competition, that they are barely profitable. Not on everything but a lot of HVAC stuff. Ebay same thing in allot of cases.

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

I can only speak for myself, as an HVAC contractor I'd prefer landlords just fix their stuff themselves rather then call me. Most are absolutely the cheapest PIA's I deal with. They just don't want to pay to fix anything correctly. Even when I warn them their tenants lives could be at stake.
to cover my a$$.

I think allot of the problems your talking about have to do with older homes. I wont bid on a foreclosure that is more then 15 years old tops, my oldest is 11 years old. This goes a long way with respect to the condition of the house even if the previous owners ripped the place apart it still has good condition bones. So other then replacing existing fixtures/fittings and servicing the AC/furnace. I haven't had issues that requires major attention or noted by a bank appraiser. Although it does help to cap things off before the appraise arrives lol.

 

[86turbodsl]

That explains why I see brand new, old stock R22 systems on super-sale, specifically the outdoor units, sold and shipped with no refrigerant, filled with nitrogen.

Where do you see these items? I can use those.

And before anybody asks, i do have a 608 AND a 609.

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

Where do you see these items? I can use those.

And before anybody asks, i do have a 608 AND a 609.

About a month ago before I was struck with the mini-split epiphany, I was shopping around for R22 Goodman outdoor units alone and complete systems on ebay. I recall seeing some really great deals on still in stock new. But I also noticed they were all without refrigerant, nitrogen filled. Not that being shipped that way is a hassle, just a little more time on the vacuum pump and some depletion of my R22 on hand. Perhaps they were discounting the cost of R22 but I think more the unpopularity as most dealers and their Techs are now street pushing R410a.

 

[86turbodsl]

Well and that goodman isnt that great of a product.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

Well and that goodman isnt that great of a product.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

I was referring to Goodman mostly because thats what most of my 11 year old units are and looking at the details for parts match up. But I remember seeing other brands in the overview search other popular brand R22 units on the cheap as well, even York and Carrier. No Trane though. Anyway now that I can pick up a complete R410a 16 seer mini-split at $500 per ton and install it by myself in a day during TV commercials. I have no need.

 

[86turbodsl]

True enough.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Well and that goodman isnt that great of a product.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

Every brand has its issues,it comes down to the installer most of the time.

 

[86turbodsl]

Goodman is like walmart. Trane would be like marshall fields. There is a difference.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Goodman is like walmart. Trane would be like marshall fields. There is a difference.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

You apparently haven't worked on many older 80 percent trane furnaces with their junk heat exchangers,Ive warranteed out a couple hundred of them in the past.

 

[86turbodsl]

Im an engineer. I see the quality of design and construction and not a lot of the back end. Even good brands can have issues like you said nut I dont agree they are all just as good.


Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

 

[Trey T]

I've followed HVAC brand quite a bit over last decade and Goodman doesn't get a good reputation like other brands such as Carrier or Trane, but their unit last a long time. I believe a good unit typically results from good installation.

My other home, i have good luck with Goodman R22 split unit. My new home has American Standard (same as Trane) with all the bell-and-whistle.

 

[Trey T]

What HVAC manufacturer do you work for?

Im an engineer. I see the quality of design and construction and not a lot of the back end. Even good brands can have issues like you said nut I dont agree they are all just as good.


Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

 

[86turbodsl]

I dont. Lets call me a consultant.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk