Sears Could Be Gone If Slump Lasts Through Christmas

[BirdMobile]

My local Sears store is a ghost town... on the rare occasion I go there to do a warranty exchange or whatever I don't think I've ever seen more than maybe 2 other customers in the entire store. However, even with the lack of customers, I always have had to wait for someone to show up and help me... sometimes for up to 4 or 5 minutes.

I am not the LEAST bit surprised the Sears turd is circling the bowl...

 

[Casey69]

i've actually bought a few things there over the last year. new dishwasher, weedeater, & garage door opener...GDO & dishwasher were made in the us. haven't bought any cman stuff since most of it is overseas now.

 

[Garage Junky]

Like most stores on the bubble, they will be open through Christmas, announce something in early Jan,, and be closed by Feb

Not the one in Waterford, MI. Slated for inventory reduction sales starting end of this month, expected to be closed by XMas. Last remaining store in the Summit Place Mall - now that place will be a complete ghost town.

 

[vankaye]

My bad experiences with Sears goes back almost 30 years. As a young mechanic, about 20 years old, (almost 50 now...) I decided not to go the tool truck route and instead bought all "Pro" Craftsman tools and toolbox. Paid cash and was pretty pleased with myself for having all pro-set tools and box with no debt.

Man, what a mistake. I wore most everything out and dealing with the store was nearly impossible. My impact gun lasted less than a month and my 33 gallon compressor was toast in 4 months. Neither was warrantied. One employee actually told me that I had voided the warranty on the impact wrench because I used the tool everyday (for thirty days!).

The guarantee on the compressor was flat out denied. I ended up buying an open box compressor right off the floor (admittedly it worked perfect for the next 20+ years and I recently sold it in perfect working order - looked pretty good too! But that may have been due to my feeling that I had paid twice for it. I took very good care of it.)

I always had to get steaming mad and work my way up the chain to get one ounce of help. Not one employee ever cared that I was standing there with 6 or 7 thousand dollars in receipts... The store had very high turn-over in the tool dept. I never saw the same employee twice and never really formed a relationship with any Sears employee. I should have been considered a "good" customer.

I finally gave up on Sears after about 5 years. I have not been in Sears store for over 20 years.

For me it was the incompetence of the employees/management that drove me away. I still have my box and all of the tools that don't have moving parts.

 

[BirdMobile]

maybe Obama will offer them a bail-out funded by none other than the good ol' working middle class taxpayer.

"Too stupid to fail!"

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Not every job associated with Sears is a minimum wage job bud. The appliance and electronics guys are on commission. There are managers, warehouse and delivery people. What about the manufacturers that make Sears products? You don't think there would be layoffs there if Sears went under? There are also thousands of back office people at their headquarters and other divisional offices, and what out the Auto center mechanics, do you think they make minimum wage? Get the facts and then get a clue.....

Commission.... when they're not selling much, because the company is falling apart?

Auto centers guys (who I have personally have met, not necessarily all of them), are lube techs/tire techs. Yeah, basically minimum wage. Not that there is a huge surplus of those guys to begin with, easy to get a job.

Jobs will be lost, oh well. Just because they're "sears jobs" doesn't really make them special. What about Big Bear, Circuit City, etc? No one morns those jobs, and life goes on. Most of what I've read here is bitching about how sears *****. Then we cry when they die....




I have to say I could care less about corporate jobs being lost. JMO

 

[franzdom]

Not the one in Waterford, MI. Slated for inventory reduction sales starting end of this month, expected to be closed by XMas. Last remaining store in the Summit Place Mall - now that place will be a complete ghost town.

OMG the Pontiac Mall. I used to shop at Montgomery Wards there.

 

[wmartin]

I have, maybe you guys should take your own advice:

http://www.ibtimes.com/amazon-nearl...t-make-money-investors-dont-seem-care-1513368

That's not an income statement.

This is an income statement (or a synopsis of several of them).

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/amzn/financials?query=income-statement

But, like I said, 'profit' is a slippery item and is heavily manipulated.

The utterly amazing bit is this:

The fact that anyone can grow at that rate in a business with historically low margins plus huge capital investments just blows me away. I think they've really pulled off an amazing feat. They've managed to carry a small amount of profit (basically break-even) while growing at an absurd pace. Typically, you'd see huge losses for something being built up at that rate.

 

[rtole]

If sears shuts down, the garage journal will be overun with threads of people begging to exchange their broken usa tools for china replacements, then when they all figure out its a lost cause, the general tool discussion will get shut down due to low activity. What are we going to talk about around here if we dont have 75,000 "bad customer service at sears" threads a day?

 

[jakemac]

Don't worry, there are plenty of members who like to bash Harbor Freight to keep the forum going long after Sears breathes it's last breath.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Amazon is all about marketshare. Dominate, then swing prices upwards slightly, and rake in huge profits, due to volume.


Amazon is awesome. One of the main reasons I order from them is shipping. I hate paying for it, as it can negate cost saving of buying online. Huge variety, great pricing, and solid customer service. That, is how you run a business.

 

[sonvolt]

Amazon is all about marketshare. Dominate, then swing prices upwards slightly, and rake in huge profits, due to volume.


Amazon is awesome. One of the main reasons I order from them is shipping. I hate paying for it, as it can negate cost saving of buying online. Huge variety, great pricing, and solid customer service. That, is how you run a business.

As a "non prime" Amazon account I'm not impressed with the speed of their order processing/shipping......almost 5 days for a shipping confirmation. Still waiting for the shipping acknowledgement for line items 2-5.

 

[jd_1138]

That's not an income statement.

This is an income statement (or a synopsis of several of them).

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/amzn/financials?query=income-statement

But, like I said, 'profit' is a slippery item and is heavily manipulated.

The utterly amazing bit is this:

The fact that anyone can grow at that rate in a business with historically low margins plus huge capital investments just blows me away. I think they've really pulled off an amazing feat. They've managed to carry a small amount of profit (basically break-even) while growing at an absurd pace. Typically, you'd see huge losses for something being built up at that rate.

That's what happens when the real world gets whittled down to data on a spreadsheet. Massive growth but low margins. High margins only result when people don't mind paying a little more for awesome customer service and quality.

 

[William Payne]

That graph looks like they have been putting all their profit into funding growth.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Lampert is just finishing the job that Kmart started, but he's making a profit from it.

 

[Chadwilliam1]

I spent 15 in sears a few days ago exchanging a tape measure. It took three people and they ended up giving me a $20 gift card and then selling me the replacement stanlely for 12.00 +/-. How do they expect to make profit when it take 3 cashiers to do an exchange and they take an $8 loss on exchange.

I hate going into sears and if I had a broken tool that would have been exchanged for a chinease tool I would have just thrwon it away but since I could exchange my pos craftsman tape for a good stanely tape.

 

[JKennedy]

Went to my local Sears tonight, just browsing for the few US tools left, and there was quite a few people there. I was actually surprised...
Maybe it's because I'm so young, but I've never really had a "bad Sears experience" so that's the reason I really hate to see it go. It seems like the only place I can (could) get USA tools at a fair price with local availability is fading and fading fast.
Now ya'll know what keeps me up at night

 

[monomach]

Lampert is just finishing the job that Kmart started, but he's making a profit from it.

???

He started it. He's the guy who bought a bankrupt KMart, sold off a bunch of its real estate, and bought Sears with that money.

Went to my local Sears tonight, just browsing for the few US tools left, and there was quite a few people there. I was actually surprised...
Maybe it's because I'm so young, but I've never really had a "bad Sears experience" so that's the reason I really hate to see it go. It seems like the only place I can (could) get USA tools at a fair price with local availability is fading and fading fast.
Now ya'll know what keeps me up at night

Some locations give great service. My local one does. I took a terrible 3/8 Craftsman Industrial ratchet in for warranty because it kept binding up. I got it for free (used a coupon to spend $10, get $10 in points, bought the ratchet with the free points). The store didn't have a repair kit for it. The manager asked me how much I paid. I told him it was ten bucks. He said I could either take a $33 thin profile ratchet in exchange for it or pay an extra $20 and get the $55 premium grade one.

I happily paid the $20. Either way, I'd have come out way ahead with a good ratchet. That Industrial ratchet was a POS to start with.

Another time, my in-store pickup took too long and the same guy knocked $10 off my order and gave me a couple of tool bags for free.

The SYWR people, on the other hand, make me want to set fire to Sears HQ.

 

[SO/PW newbie]

I'd really hate to see them go. I shop there every three or four months. Things like pillows, towels, clothes, tools. The store does seem very 80's. The store closest to me can be walking distance, but when I drive, I do get great parking.

It does irritate me though, I go in for 1 item, and there may be 2 people in line ahead of me. It takes forever to get checked out because they ask everyone if they would like to put it on their Sears card, "Oh, don't have one?" they make them apply, takes forever, then they have to ask if they are a rewards member, make them sign up for that and then when I finally check out, they give you 4 or 5 receipts that are 3 feet long for a pair of socks. Checking out can take 5 to 10 minutes sometimes.

But it does seem like a ghost town there, they are a mall anchor, so some traffic, but no ones buying anything.

 

[mikehaugen]

Surprised this hasn't been mentioned, but Grainger carries craftsman tools now as well, even Menards has them.

I agree that it's sad to see such an iconic company go down, but can't say that I didn't see it coming. Truth is most brick/mortar stores will suffer the same fate sooner or later as more and more shopping is done online. At some point walmart will be all that's left, then Amazon will start opening up stores and take out walmart.

 

[chicane]

Surprised this hasn't been mentioned, but Grainger carries craftsman tools now as well, even Menards has them.

The Craftsman brand IS NOT going away PERIOD. IT is one of the most recognized and valuable retail brands in the world. Sears could fold tomorrow and they would be making Craftsman and placing it in stores across America, it is an independent holding company. So all of you Cman haters can give it a rest Cman will be around for a very, very long time.

 

[nyrapscalion]

Sears used to be a good store to shop in. The tools weren't the only reason to visit.
They pre date HD/Lowes. We've seen Montgomery Wards come and go, Service Merchandise vanish, CompUSA, Circuit City....the list is endless...I remember Bradlees. It's gone now. JCPenny and Sears will vanish as well. I think Best Buy is also going away. ( ok, I hope it goes away....).
I would shop and give more business if it wasn't painful. The tool department is empty.
The clothing selection is terrible. Electronics? the CRT is still working...

We will see. The shopping landscape is changing. I will be sad when they go. Kmart is on the chopping block as well. Lots of people will be out of work. Empty stores...
No it won't be pleasant.

 

[brass89]

It's a shame from a historical aspect, but the sears of today isn't the sears that used to be. I rarely go there anymore, the last few times I've wound up in a sears it just gave the impression that they'd given up. Could hear your footsteps echo, half the shelves empty, grungy floors, half the lights were out, dust all over everything. Looked like a post apocalyptic version of what I remember as a kid. Used to be full of people, well kept, clean, bright. The doors I entered the last trip took me through a awkward maze, passing the women's clothing - I believe it was still stock from the 70's or 80's. Without online competition etc, how did they expect to compete just as a brick and mortar store? It's depressing. Like some of the others, I too remember the great big sears catalogs as a kid.

Service merchandise, now there's a name I haven't heard in forever. Right along with montgomery wards.

 

[Dave455]

Hmm! Even as a 'foreigner' I think this is all a bit sad.

I first visited the U.S.A. nearly 20 years ago. Sure, I was delighted to be able to pick up some Snap On at a fraction of U.K. prices, but the real highlight was finding a well stocked branch of Sears, and being able to pick up good quality U.S. made tools, at what, by U.K. standards were discount prices!

I bought a load of stuff each visit, and 20 years on, when folks admire my Estwing hammers, or my Craftsman deep sockets, they can't believe how little they cost!

One wonders how much a supply of good quality tools, at reasonable prices, has assisted the U.S. to become the strong nation it has?

I personally, represent a tiny tiny fraction of Sears income over the last 20 years, but back then I was spending a couple of hundred dollars each visit. I'd still spend it. Friends here in the U.K. want me to get stuff, and if I want spare tools to keep on my vehicle (which I do) Craftsman is the first choice! At least old Craftsman is!

My last visit to Sears, I came away empty handed! I'm sure I don't need to explain the problem - everybody here knows what it is! The quality has gone! Multiply my experiences by the number of customers Sears had, and you have the problem explained.

Sadly, whilst blindingly obvious to everybody here, it isn't so obvious to managers, who are probably scratching their heads and wondering why sales are down, and are probably blaming it on 'the recession' rather than admitting they have screwed up big time!

 

[impactsocket]

There are many threads where people are attacking Craftsman but when there is a hot deal on a tool in the hot tools section of this forum, the tool is sold out real quick.

There is too much competition for tools driving the prices down. Craftsman has to make the tools at the lowest price and that means it has to be made overseas with cheaper labor. If Sears carried Craftsman tools with Snap on quality that seldom break then the tools would be expensive and no one but a few ********* tool guys would buy them. Sears sells tools mostly to non professionals therefore the tools have to be lower priced.

 

[Parrothead]

The problems with Sears have been well documented, and some people in this thread have pointed out some things as well. The biggest issue is Eddie Lampert and his fatal flaw was his background. He had no retail experience prior to this, and reinventing a retail business is hard hard work. Both KMart and Sears had every ingredient to succeed, you just had to know how to put it all together, and he didn't. In the beginning I think he wanted to try to make Sears and KMart work, but over the last 5 years or so, it's about putting enough effort into it without expense just to show investors you tried, all the while covering his own interests before they both fail. All that's left now is to pick at the bones...

 

[Horror Business]

Sadly, I don't think Sears will pull out of this. Radio Shack is not likely to be around much longer either.

 

[ihrescue]

I hate to see it but business evolves and there's always going to be ones that can't continue. Their innovation with catalog and stocking everything probably did their share of putting others out of business. I'm not sure if they were the first but certainly mail order homes is amazing and they were excellent quality with many still as good as they were new. I wonder if Sears was the first to have small, quality manufacturers produce their Sears line of products, like appliances?

There was an excellent book written by Andy Grove the founder of Intel called Only the Paranoid Survive. The premise of the book was that in all business there is a point in the sustainment of the business called the inflection point, were if you realize the business is in trouble its already too late to save it. Sometimes growth, like buying other dying businesses such as K-Mart are more nails in the coffin. Marriott International realized how much of a burden it was for them to own all their own properties during one economic down turn. They changed their business model and now just owns the franchise, which they totally control. They saw their problems before they became problems and adjusted.

 

[billp603]

...and I'm sure Sears CEO and board of directors could care less. They will all take home millions this year and move on to another high paying job.

 

[franzdom]

I hate to see it but business evolves and there's always going to be ones that can't continue. Their innovation with catalog and stocking everything probably did their share of putting others out of business. I'm not sure if they were the first but certainly mail order homes is amazing and they were excellent quality with many still as good as they were new. I wonder if Sears was the first to have small, quality manufacturers produce their Sears line of products, like appliances?

There was an excellent book written by Andy Grove the founder of Intel called Only the Paranoid Survive. The premise of the book was that in all business there is a point in the sustainment of the business called the inflection point, were if you realize the business is in trouble its already too late to save it. Sometimes growth, like buying other dying businesses such as K-Mart are more nails in the coffin. Marriott International realized how much of a burden it was for them to own all their own properties during one economic down turn. They changed their business model and now just owns the franchise, which they totally control. They saw their problems before they became problems and adjusted.

They did NOT buy K-Mart

 

[mmack66]

I'm surprised they haven't folded up sooner, what with them being the sole retailer in the United States that seems to be expected to stock only made in the USA goods.

 

[Virgil Cain]

The Craftsman brand IS NOT going away PERIOD. IT is one of the most recognized and valuable retail brands in the world. Sears could fold tomorrow and they would be making Craftsman and placing it in stores across America, it is an independent holding company. So all of you Cman haters can give it a rest Cman will be around for a very, very long time.

I suspect that what you say is true. But, if the owners of the Craftsman brand decide to milk it by selling inferior quality tools purely on the back of the name then what exactly will it mean to say that "Craftsman will be around for a very very long time"? Of course, to an extent this is already occurring, but it may continue to get worse.

I'm not at all interested in the preservation of the Craftsman brand if they continue to degrade their quality.

 

[sberry]

How do we come to the conclusion all this stuff they sell is "inferior" and to what?

 

[bigbearcraig]

Let's face it, Sears as we've known it, is not going to survive. The Craftsman name will probably live on, but not like before. Times change.

 

[RonnieC]

I never understood why anyone would want to hire a CEO after they ran the last company they lead into the ground. Why do companies pay several million for miserable failure? Bob Nardelli is one that comes to mind. He ran Home Depot into the ground, then moved to Chrysler to do the same thing and everybody acted surprised when he did. It's like constantly hiring the same mechanic who breaks everything he touches. Who does that?

Because the have experience!

 

[Fretters]

I never understood why anyone would want to hire a CEO after they ran the last company they lead into the ground. Why do companies pay several million for miserable failure?

Generally because the people in charge make money from it. Honest people get screwed, the dishonest get rich.

 

[slyonedoofy]

ROFL

Do you know how much most people on the floor make?



I still like some craftsman tools, but I'm working mostly on internet shopping these days. A lot of it wasn't superb to begin with. Rose-colored glasses seem to be a requirement to really be a huge fan of the tools. However, I will say they were usually available, and reasonably priced. Personally, I think if they had dropped the "USA" image faster, and dropped tool prices while using high quality asian production (Taiwan Gear Wrench level), they'd have kept craftsman going longer, and with a bit more quality. Unpopular opinion, I know.


But, sears, not craftsman, is at fault. Not competing in a changing marketplace killed the once giant company. Ideally, they'd sell the craftsman name before it gets too bad, and gets anymore media attention. Selling the brand under bankruptcy means getting less for it.

I made $15.50 per hour selling tools in a medium size store. Large stores they make around $20.

A large store appliance salesman who is a rockerstar can make $100,000+.

I know. I was a manager.

 

[chicane]

I suspect that what you say is true. But, if the owners of the Craftsman brand decide to milk it by selling inferior quality tools purely on the back of the name then what exactly will it mean to say that "Craftsman will be around for a very very long time"? Of course, to an extent this is already occurring, but it may continue to get worse.

I'm not at all interested in the preservation of the Craftsman brand if they continue to degrade their quality.

Why do you assume all of there stuff is inferior quality? I wouldn't buy the stuff that I buy were it inferior quality.

 

[NUTTSGT]

???

He started it. He's the guy who bought a bankrupt KMart, sold off a bunch of its real estate, and bought Sears with that money.

In the beginning of the merger, it seemed they were trying to shape Sears into the Kmart of old, a corporation that failed for good reason. Now, it's more of a race to run Sears into the ground.

It's just sad to see a 120 year old company, that was once a back bone store of the US, to go way of the dinosaur like it is. I'm quite disappointed that, like many here and elsewhere, I used to be happy walking into Sears, pick up a Craftsman tool that was made in the USA or pick out a new appliance for the house, now, it's just

 

[ckadams00]

I was in Sears today - first time in months - they were movings abunch of the tool section around (why?) but a TON of stuff was on markdown and my thoughts the whole time was: "Closing?". Seriously it looked like a 'final days' situation. Craftsman will be sold to someone, as will Lands End, bu t Sears will be gone before this thread gets cold.