240 volt hookup question

[bmxdad]

I'm using some 10/2 w/g to hook up a King heater for a 30 amp 240v circuit. Cable from heater is going to a box, where romex is terminated at. I hooked black to black, red to white, and green to bare. Does the white need to be marked red in the sub-panel? If yes, reference in NEC ?

Also, (and no, I'm not doing this) could two separate single pole breakers mimic a single double pole breaker? Is the double pole to insure both feeds are killed on a fault?

 

[RECox286]

I have never "phased" a 240 vac connection, and you will need to have

one 2 pole breaker (ganged) so that if one pole trips, it takes the other

with it...in essence cutting off all power to the equipment.

Uncle Bob

 

[Mustang51js]

Usually the inspectors want it marked or colored so someone in the future knows what it is if it's taken off the breaker.

 

[sberry]

Great to point out why.

 

[alfredeneuman]

By Code,the wire must be marked on both ends.

As for the 2 single poles, it would be a violation.

240.15(B) Circuit Breaker as Overcurrent Device.
Circuit breakers shall open all ungrounded conductors of the circuit both manually and automatically unless otherwise permitted in 240.15(B)(1), (B)(2), (B)(3), and (B)(4).

and none of the exceptions listed meet the criteria in your case.

 

[C96]

Without knowing anything about that particular heater, in general a disconnecting means is usually required at the heater location. This requirement could vary depending on your local authority having jurisdiction. Also, consult the manufactures installation guide for the heater you are using.

2 pole circuit breaker is mandatory

 

[bmxdad]

About the breaker question, it was simply that. Just curious. Not doing it.

alfredeneuman ... Just what I wanted, thanks.

By disconnect, do you mean a plug? Came to me with bare wires at end of cable. Manual mentions nothing so hard wiring should be ok?

 

[C96]

If your unit incorporates an on-off switch and that switch disconnects all ungrounded conductors of the circuit then you should be able to hard wire it.

Seems odd this is not discussed in the manufactures install guide

 

[Random Guy]

A plug would be a suitable means of disconnect. If you hardwire it, you'll need a switch of some sort to kill the power to the heater. The idea is that when you are working on the heater, YOU have control of the power supply. This means that the shutoff needs to be near the heater, so someone can't flip it back on without you knowing.

 

[bmxdad]

Ahh, got it. There is a rotary dial for off, fan only and heat. So that should satisfy code.



It's a King Pic-a-watt heater.

sent by tapatalk for WP8

 

[hilld]

Ahh, got it. There is a rotary dial for off, fan only and heat. So that should satisfy code.



It's a King Pic-a-watt heater.

sent by tapatalk for WP8

That is not good enough, you will need a disconnect as previously indicated. I am not sure if a lockable breaker might meet that requirement, that you can lock out tag out.

 

[bmxdad]

So a breaker isn't good enough, nor is the on /off on the heater itself? If it didn't come with a plug, then what ?

Anyone have a NEC reference and /or picture of the disconnect being talked about? How far from the heater can it be? Sub-panel is only about 8' away ...

 

[Charles (in GA)]

So a breaker isn't good enough, nor is the on /off on the heater itself? If it didn't come with a plug, then what ?

Anyone have a NEC reference and /or picture of the disconnect being talked about? How far from the heater can it be? Sub-panel is only about 8' away ...

Disconnect not needed if the breaker is less than 50 ft and in direct line of sight. Otherwise use a 30 amp rated double pole switch or similar in your junction box behind the heater.

 

[600SL]

I believe a breaker may qualify if it is in sight and less than 50 ft from the unit. When I looked this up for welders that was the way I understood it.

 

[alan camby]

Is the disconnect a garage/shop thing only. If not how do all my baseboard heaters in my house get away without a disconnect?

 

[bmxdad]

Disconnect not needed if the breaker is less than 50 ft and in direct line of sight. Otherwise use a 30 amp rated double pole switch or similar in your junction box behind the heater.

Ok, that makes sense. Same with the reasoning behind it.



It's always on, supposedly, and if you had to work on it you'd need to open a breaker, that someone could turn back on.

 

[FordsnFishin]

I believe the article you are looking for is:NEC 424.19 C 1-4. Primarily #4 reading, In other occupancies the branch circuit switch or circuit breaker, where readily accessible for servicing of the fixed heater, shall be permitted as the other disconnecting means.

 

[FordsnFishin]

Readily accessible, meaning within sight, on same floor.

 

[C96]

I believe the article you are looking for is:NEC 424.19 C 1-4. Primarily #4 reading, In other occupancies the branch circuit switch or circuit breaker, where readily accessible for servicing of the fixed heater, shall be permitted as the other disconnecting means.

This is correct only if the heater complies with what I’ve already stated above in post #8

If your unit incorporates an on-off switch and that switch disconnects all ungrounded conductors of the circuit then you should be able to hard wire it.

If the heater complies with this statement, then NEC 424.19(C)(4) applies.

 

[C96]

Oh, and also Charles is correct

Disconnect not needed if the breaker is less than 50 ft and in direct line of sight. Otherwise use a 30 amp rated double pole switch or similar in your junction box behind the heater.

 

[bmxdad]

Thanks all ... good information

 

[wyliesdiesels]

About the breaker question: 240v circuit actually require a common trip breaker and not just a handle tie. Most will just use a handle tied double pole breaker or 2 singles with a handle tie but that is incorrect...

A handle tie is actually for MWBCs....

And yes, white wire needs to be taped or colored black or red at terminations points as code only allows white(or white/gray) to be used for the grounded conductor!

 

[bmxdad]

Will this work, or does the whole length need to be taped red?

View media item 44100

 

[Thumper68]

It is my understanding that all the exposed wire (anything outside the outer sheathing) needs to be completely colored. In your case red.

 

[600SL]

And yes, white wire needs to be taped or colored black or red at terminations points as code only allows white(or white/gray) to be used for the grounded conductor!

wyliesdiesels

Can you point me to the code where gray is allowed as a neutral. My inspector made me take a gray out. I had two 240v circuits for my lifts running through the same conduit. I tried running one receptacle as black, red and white and the other as blue and orange with a grey neutral.

He told me I could only use grey if I were running two different voltages in the same conduit like 208/240. 120/240 does not count as two different voltages because the 120 is split off the 240V.

I cant seam to find any thing on this in the code.

 

[alfredeneuman]

The red tape is good like that. You could have just put 1 wrap on it and still be good.
The Code only says that must be re-identified at the terminals.

 

[pattenp]

Grounded conductor identification is covered by NEC 200.6

 

[teamextreme]

The red tape is good like that. You could have just put 1 wrap on it and still be good.
The Code only says that must be re-identified at the terminals.

I swore there was a code change several years ago (early 2000's?) that changed it to requiring taping along the entire exposed length, but I can't for the life of me find it. Maybe I'm confusing requirements for marking a black wire for use as a ground or neutral?

 

[alfredeneuman]

From the 2011 NEC:
(2) Identification shall encircle the conductor and shall be
accomplished by one of the following:
a. Stripping the insulation or covering from the entire
exposed length
b. Coloring the insulation or covering green at the termination
c. Marking the insulation or covering with green tape
or green adhesive labels at the termination

That only applies to conductors larger than #6. Anything smaller is required to have green or green with a yellow striped insulation.

Neutrals larger than #6 just require marking at terminations as well.

 

[woodzie]

If this is a sub panel off the main then that bond jumper from neutral bar to ground must be removed or the ground and neutral will share the current back to the main panel.

thats a nice panel. expensive breakers but great quality.

 

[bmxdad]

Thats the grounding bar. Neutral bar is to the right. I actually moved it from the right side to the left.

Expensive panel, but breakers aren't that bad. The 30amp DP was $16 and change

 

[woodzie]

right sorry.