New GFI wiring problem?

[2000pstrokeblue]

I guess I have 2 questions can you not share a neutral or ground with a GFI using a 12/3 with separate hots/breakers? The other is I ran 2 GFI's on 1 circuit but split them out of the same junction box is this not doable?

Here is a little more info about my problem So im trying to finish the wiring in my new building. I decided to rune 12/3 cable the city is making me run GFI outlets and now that I have it wired up im having some problems. First is that I have the 1 side ran as follows the run comes out of the panel and runs to a junction box, from there 2 legs come out, 1 goes to a single GFI oulet and the other goes to another GFI and another outlet ran from that GFI. When the breaker gets powered on 1 the GFI on its own leg powers up fine the other just pops immediately I have tested the power and ground on the one that pops and everything tests fine, take that GFI out and it also works fine. The second problem im having is with the 12/3 I ran a GFI and another outlet in tandem with no issues. then when I continued on to wire in another light using a different hot and breaker but sharing the neutral and ground they both work fine when only 1 or the other breaker is on but power both up and the GFI pops. Also thought I may have a bad GFI and swapped them out with no change

 

[pattenp]

Do a web search for GFCI on a multiwire branch circuit (MWBC). Sharing a neutral between GFCI outlets causes problems.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Are you using GFI outlets or GFCI outlets. If you are putting a second non-GFI outlet downstream from a GFI, I think the first outlet needs to be a GFCI. Then everything downstream is protected if you do the wiring correctly.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

On your multi-wire branch circuits, the circuit breakers must have the handles connected so if one trips, the other does too. Best to use a regular double pole breaker. The handles being tied is a NEC requirement.

Charles

 

[pattenp]

Are you using GFI outlets or GFCI outlets. If you are putting a second non-GFI outlet downstream from a GFI, I think the first outlet needs to be a GFCI. Then everything downstream is protected if you do the wiring correctly.

So where does one find these GFI outlets that are not GFCI?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Are you using GFI outlets or GFCI outlets. If you are putting a second non-GFI outlet downstream from a GFI, I think the first outlet needs to be a GFCI. Then everything downstream is protected if you do the wiring correctly.

Last time I checked a gfi and a gfci are the same thing.
Just make sure to run all the downstream outlets from the load side of the gfi,do not splice the neutrals before the gfi for the other outlets on same circuit.

 

[Banjorear]

Just went through this with a shared neutral. GFI's won't work.

 

[ddawg16]

GFCI' work just fine on a MWBC if done right.

I'll keep this simple.

Lets assume your 12/3 cable has a Black, Red and White (and ground)

On GFCI #1. Connect the Black and White to the LINE side of the GFCI.
On GFCI #2. Connect the Red and White to the LINE side of the GFCI.

If you pigtail the white (neut) 'before' the GFCI's, then your GFCI's will work just fine.

The most common mistake people make with GFCI's is how they hook up the load side (output to other outlets). They tend to tie the neut for the load side to the same neut for the line side. This will cause the GFCI to trip every time.

The GFCI has output terminals for the load side that also includes a neut. You must use that connection for the load side.

Now, some people are going to say it won't work. It will work.

Here is a link that discusses it in detail

http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/gfcis-mwbc-121317/

 

[nehog]

You can share a neutral right up to the (first) GFCI. At that point sharing stops and each must have its own neutral.

 

[ddawg16]

You can share a neutral right up to the (first) GFCI. At that point sharing stops and each must have its own neutral.

Thanks for pointing that out and making it clear. Reading what I wrote did not explicitly state that....

 

[wyliesdiesels]

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Last time I checked a gfi and a gfci are the same thing.

So where does one find these GFI outlets that are not GFCI?

From what I've learned on the GJF, the electrical dept mgr at the local Home Depot, and reading the instructions in the boxes ... its my understanding there are two kinds of ground fault outlets:

1. Ground Fault Interrupter outlet (GFI): This outlet provide ground fault protection to only this outlet and no ground fault protection to any outlets downstream.

2. Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI): This outlet provides ground fault protection to itself and to any properly wired outlets downstream from it. There are lugs identified as "Line" and "Load". "Line" is for the hot wire coming to the outlet, "Load" if for downstream outlets. Downstream outlets connected to the "Line" lug (or through pig tail) will not be protected. Any outlets connected to the "Load" lug (or through a pig tail) will be protected.

Here is a wiring diagram from Lutron:

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/030410a.pdf

I've quit buying GFIs and use only GFCIs. GFCIs are the only outlet that I can find with a little pilot light. I like being able to look at an outlet and instantly see whether or not its hot. That way I don't waste time testing everything if something doesn't work when I plug something in. I've actually replaced a few "normal" outlets that the code doesn't require to be ground fault protected with GFCIs just to get the pilot light.

This is my understanding of GFIs and GFCIs. If I've got this wrong and need correction ... I welcome the criticism and further education. That's what this Forum is all about!

 

[ddawg16]

I doubt you will find the old style without the light any more.

The new ones also require power to reset it. In other words, you can't reset it until power is applied to the ckt. I actually think it's a nice feature.

 

[Norcal]

A GFCI is for personnel protection, a GFI is ground fault protection that is required for services over 150 volts to ground & 1000 amperes & over, normally 480Y/277V..

 

[Petey156]

Don't forget, you could always buy a 2 pole gfci breaker