Cheap hydraulic hand crimpers megathread?

[Ign]

I dunno if "megathread" is appropriate, but I was recently searching for a decent crimper for building battery cables and the like, ie say 6ga and larger.

I found a ton of threads here that were all over the map with different styles, all of which seemed to have some validity in their different designs. One continuous theme was that the Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper was pretty good for the price. There are other options on the market for this same style of tool so I'd like to just keep this thread about hydraulic hand crimpers. I feel it'll help someone in the future (it would have helped me).

Anyway, here's the HF
http://www.harborfreight.com/hydraulic-wire-crimping-tool-66150.html

I found mention while searching GJ of someone who had purchased on eBay what appeared to be the HF crimper for less, so I started looking (not on eBay but Amazon). I found this, which I ordered:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KHY7SOA/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The primary difference seems to be that HF claims 8T while the Amazon product claims 10T. However I have to wonder if this just isn't "creative math" as this is not uncommon when Chinese tools rate tonnage of hydraulic anything.

Right now the Amazon unit is $23.70 plus $10.60 shipping so total $34.30. It was delivered very quickly (ordered Monday, received Thursday via FedEx), I was shocked actually.

The Harbor Freight is $52.99 right now, less a 20% coupon (there were apparently no active 25% coupons when I ordered, according to the HF coupon thread here) and then plus $6.99 shipping made it $49.38 for me. Getting to a HF store was not an option at the time so shipping was my only option.

Now I'm leery of small hydraulic chi-com product like this, I figured I might leave it in the drawer for 6 months and then pull it out only to find it didn't work. So while searching Amazon I came across the Temco. $79 and free shipping, I figured I'd happily pay the higher price as other Temco stuff comes highly recommended in the crimping threads here
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HJXHX1K/?tag=atomicindus08-20

BUT read the reviews (although there are only 5) of the Temco, and I at least started to wonder if it wasn't from the same Chinese factory as the others and Temco just marked it up. It looks the same aside from color, but I know this may not mean a thing as the Chinese are REALLY good at copying things. Specifically, the review about the dies being marked in metric made me suspicious, and I felt that if Temco was targeting me (an Amuhreecan) they'd mark the dies in AWG. I don't have any first hand knowledge of the Temco, so maybe it's a step up (one review says the case is better). That's actually one reason I wanted to start this thread, maybe someone knows, because at $79 it's still reasonable. But I wasn't willing to risk paying premium money for a product that might come from the same factory with different paint.

Also I know at least one user here has drilled and tapped his HF hydraulic crimper to more easily hold it in a vise. Great idea, and I'll find that link later if he doesn't chime in. Mods like this could help contribute to the "megathread" LOL.

Now, for my Amazon unit, I only used it for 2 crimps on 4ga yesterday, but it was great IMO. Made what appeared to be a reasonably hex-shaped crimp. It does get jammed at the finish of the crimp, but a tap to the dies with just about anything (I used a screwdriver handle or my strippers or whatever was within reach) causes them to free up and retract. An annoyance for production use, but since I might do 10 crimps a year it's no big deal for me.

 

[Ramper]

I have a HF, and it works get. The dies are inaccurately marked. I asked earlier on GJ to try and get a list together for the "real" sizes on he dies, but it never happened. I have searched the WWW and can not find a listing that says use *** die for YYYY size wire instead of the YYYY die. Maybe that can come on this thread also

 

[Ramper]

Good link regarding this topic:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/battery_cables&page=3

 

[Ign]

Good link regarding this topic:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/battery_cables&page=3

Thank you! I simply guessed on my 4ga and wound up with a crimp that looked very similar to his (final) results on 4ga:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/battery_cables&page=4

My dies most definitely go larger than what I used, while he seems to indicate he used the largest die set provided. Hmm.

 

[CwazyWabbit]

Wouldn't he have wasted less crimps if he'd started with the biggest die and worked his way down till the crimp was tight enough? That way he could keep testing on the same crimp....

 

[JDon99]

Are the dies labeled correctly on the Amazon crimper?

 

[BoostAddiction]

I have the HF crimper, and it has worked well for me so far in wiring a car from scratch.

 

[soj]

I have this one on order. It's scheduled for Monday (1/26) delivery. I have several crimps to make as soon as it arrives. Will post results, with pics.
-jp

 

[Ign]

Are the dies labeled correctly on the Amazon crimper?

No, they're metric. I think the ones I used for 4ga copper lug were labeled "25" whatever the hell that means. Can't be 25mm as that'd be 1" and 4ga copper lugs are not 1" OD. I think the biggest are labeled 70

I have this one on order. It's scheduled for Monday (1/26) delivery. I have several crimps to make as soon as it arrives. Will post results, with pics.
-jp

Cool, the 16T version of what I've got. I considered that but figured 10T should be enough, however mine does take a fair bit of pressure on the handle near the end of the crimp and I wouldn't complain about a more powerful ram.

Thank you and please do post results.

 

[Jason280]

I have the Harbor Freight model, and I'm actually on my second. The first stopped "pumping" after 4 months, despite only being used 3 or 4 times....it literally still looked brand new. After some arguing with HF customer service, they finally swapped it out for a new one. I've had it for a several months now, and it's worked the few times I've used it, but it has instilled a lot of confidence.

 

[SantaAna12]

Good link regarding this topic:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/battery_cables&page=3

Good call. He posts some great threads. I like where he uses a gauge to test connectors to failure (from different crimpers).

Anyone have any idea if the FTZ is rebranded?

 

[soj]

No, they're metric. I think the ones I used for 4ga copper lug were labeled "25" whatever the hell that means. Can't be 25mm as that'd be 1" and 4ga copper lugs are not 1" OD. I think the biggest are labeled 70

Metric wire is sized in square mm. AWG sizes don't usually convert to a whole metric size, so you have to select the closest available. That seems to be a problem with most of these hyd. crimpers, the dies are usually in metric sizes.

Here is one conversion chart. A google search on mm to AWG or vise versa, will turn up lots of charts.
-jp

 

[shampoop]

I have little faith in cheap hydraulic crimpers. If it's being used just for making battery cables every once and a while I think that the tinned thinwall lugs and a manual crimper like this works great. I have one like this one. Works awesome. Using the thinwall lugs and marine style battery terminals works great. I used it a few times a few years ago, and might use it again in another few years.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mechanical-...801?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58a6b228f9

Hydraulic crimpers and those super heavy wall lugs are more for like industrial electrical stuff. Things that have to last for a hundred+ years, or maybe large ships.

 

[soj]

Good call. He posts some great threads. I like where he uses a gauge to test connectors to failure (from different crimpers).

Anyone have any idea if the FTZ is rebranded?

Also, on his first page on crimping, in the 5th pic down, it is clear that the thickness of the terminal you are using makes a big difference. So for the metric labeled dies, I see a lot of trial and error in our future. The FTZ 94284 can be had for $160-$180. Most of the imported hyd. crimpers can be had for less than $100. You could eat up the cost difference quickly if you ruin many copper lugs.

Does anybody know if the FTZ 94284 is USA made?
-jp

 

[Ramper]

Here is one conversion chart. A google search on mm to AWG or vise versa, will turn up lots of charts.
-jp[/QUOTE]

So how does this chart then covert a die marked 2 AWG?

 

[Givl Reggin]

Here's a start of a conversion chart - I'll let someone else fill in the unknowns....

DIE = wire size
00awg = 4ga
0awg = 6ga
8awg = 14ga (7awg die is a bit too small)

 

[metal tech]

I have the 11 ton Temco crimper and it is a solid product. I got the 11 ton to be able to do any cable I might want other wise the 5 ton would have worked. The dies are labeled/stamped in Metric, but the die sizing chart gives you the AWG cross. Besides the Metric thing may just be like going to metric fasteners on cars it's a world thing. The Temco also shipped with spare o-ring seals in the the case and it has a 5 year warrenty. Amazon no longer has the 11 ton version for sale, may have sold out and not restocked due to slow sales? I'm sure the Harbor Freight and others would work, but the temco is in my opinion a step up in quality.

 

[soj]

Here is one conversion chart. A google search on mm to AWG or vise versa, will turn up lots of charts.
-jp

So how does this chart then covert a die marked 2 AWG?[/QUOTE]

AWG is American Wire Gauge, the same as what we usually call "gauge", as in 10 gage, or 10GA. So if your dies are marked in AWG numbers no conversion is needed. From reviews I have read on the HF crimper though, the AWG markings on the dies may or may not be correct.

Most conversion charts I have found convert from AWG to square mm, but with dies marked in square mm, we need to convert the other way. Here is one metric to AWG conversion chart, along with a good explanation of how to convert with math. The problem is, the charts convert for purposes of replacing metric wires with AWG wires, hence the "next size bigger" rule to ensure adequate ampacity with the new wire. For crimper dies it will get you close, but I still think it will require some trial and error.

My crimper is supposed to be here tomorrow. When I start experimenting I plan to try bigger dies first and work my way down till the crimp is tight. Then if I am satisfied I will engrave that die set with the AWG size.
-jp

 

[Ign]

Not sure about needing to "convert the other way." Using the chart I can start on the left at AWG or on the right at mm squared. Seeing that I achieved acceptable results w 25mm squared on 4ga and the chart lists 4ga as 21.1 or 3ga as 26.7, it makes sense to me.

 

[soj]

Not sure about needing to "convert the other way." Using the chart I can start on the left at AWG or on the right at mm squared. Seeing that I achieved acceptable results w 25mm squared on 4ga and the chart lists 4ga as 21.1 or 3ga as 26.7, it makes sense to me.

I agree that the chart can be read either way. I guess I was looking for something to do a direct conversion, but the truth is the two systems will not directly convert. It they would we wouldn't need fractional and metric wrenches. I think for any tool with metric sized dies, just pick one that works.

My tool arrived this morning, review to follow
-jp

 

[soj]

I ordered this crimper on Jan 19th for $52.50 (tool and shipping), I see the prices are different now. It came in today, packaged in a plain white box with no brand name. The yellow plastic case seems to be about average for Chinese tools. Plastic hinge with two latches. There are molded recesses for all the dies, but they were scattered inside the case. The tool itself was in a plastic bag which had caught the leaking oil. The leak seemed to come from around the release knob, and was minor. I wiped it dry and have not noticed any leakage while using it a few times.

The handles and jaws are powder coated. The pump portion is a black oxide type finish. The dies are shiny, but more like cadmium than chrome. Once I had the dies back in place I closed the case and turned it over and end for end several times and they all stayed in place. I suppose it takes the rough handling of shipping to dislodge them. If I have a problem with them coming out of place I may put some self stick weatherstrip foam on the ridges on the underside of the case lid.

Some closeups of the dies:

The one page "Specifications".

A little Chinglish, misspelling and words run together.

Final instructions on the handle:

That spring loaded ball in the pin holds it in snug with no movement.

The jaws rotate relative to the handles by unscrewing from the pump body, so there is 360* of adjustment.

It's a little hard to see but the dies are a very loose fit in the jaws. Here the die is pushed all the way to the left and is barely still in the groove on the right. It doesn't seem to matter though because there is no side thrust on the die in use. This may be by design to allow the dies to self align with each other.

Next, the first crimp.
-jp

 

[soj]

First use of the no name 16T crimper described in post #21:

You need three hands to use one of these tools, two to pump the handles and one to hold the wire and terminal. Using one to hold the wire and pumping it with it laying on the bench results in lots of flopping around. I quickly decided to put it in the vice with rubber jaw inserts. I turned the jaws and dies horizontal so the wire could be fed in from the bottom. This allows a good view to keep the terminal in place as the dies close.

My first crimp was a ring terminal on battery cable. The cable is some I have had on hand for quite a while, is unmarked, so I am not sure of the gauge. The wire (after stripping) measures 0.28" to 0.29", so I am guessing 1 or 2 gauge. I used a terminal marked with a 2. It measured 0.33" on the inside and slid over the wire easily. The OD of the lug was 0.44" and the die marked 70 was a loose fit, too big to produce a crimp. I used the next size down, marked 50. It produced a nice smooth crimp with no "wings". I clamped the terminal in the vice and tried to first pull, then ****** or jerk it loose. No luck, it never budged. I know, that is not a very scientific test, no fancy strain gauge or anything, but I believe if it was loose enough for a bad connection, it would have slipped at least a little bit.

But, just to be sure I tried the next smaller die, marked 35. This is the result:

I measured the hex three ways: 0.33", 0.34" and 0.35". So average 0.34". Subtract 0.10" for the terminal thickness (wall thickness of 0.05" X 2) and the inside of the lug is now 0.24". The wire started out at 0.28' to 0.29" (it's hard to measure a stranded wire), so it has been compressed appx. 0.04" to 0.05". I realize I am comparing apples (round) to oranges (hex), and all these measurements were with a dial caliper. I also have no idea how that compares to desired compression with a proper AWG set of dies.

I made one other crimp, but didn't get any pics, yet. It is really ugly, but I knew it would be. It is a 1/0 GA lug crimped onto a 1 GA cable. Pics and more info tomorrow.
-jp

 

[Ign]

Wow, detailed! Thanks. I got the same manual, I loved the "don't knock at one's option." This is exactly how HF manuals used to be worded.

 

[soj]

Wow, detailed! Thanks. I got the same manual, I loved the "don't knock at one's option." This is exactly how HF manuals used to be worded.

I know, when I read that when disassembling I should "keep the ground clean" I felt a wave of nostalgia come over me for the old HF manuals.

They may not be great with English, but they do have the hi-tech skill which improved the oil path principle!

On a related note, God help me if I had to translate English into Chinese.

We now return to our regularly scheduled Megathread.

 

[ncfh]

A nice compilation of standards for crimped terminals and splices...

Stolen from... http://www.marinehowto.com/

 

[soj]

More info on this 16 T crimper from Amazon.

The maintenance guide:

This got my curiosity up about "dismounting" the handle and "turning out the oil stopper", so I unscrewed the handle:

The hyd. reservoir is a rubber tube, held onto the body of the pump with a rubber o-ring.

The jaws rotate so the cable can come in from different angles relative to the handles. The rotate by turning on threads on the pump body. Having a curious nature (otherwise known as nosy), I screwed the jaws all the way off.

The spring is what retracts the piston when you open the release valve.

The exploded view:

Next, that ugly crimp I mentioned before.
-jp

 

[soj]

As promised, the ugly crimp.

Or crimps, since there was room for two on this lug. Not much for looks, but it is tight. Notice there are no "flags" from using too small a die. Unlike the guy on this site (scroll down to the HF crimper review), who started with a too small die, I started with the largest die that would produce a crimp (marked 70). Then I only crimped it part way, released and rotated the lug one flat, crimped a little tighter, released and rotated again. This time I crimped all the way, released and rotated and crimped all the way. This method prevented any of the lug from flaring out into the gap between the die sides. I then switched to the #50 dies and repeated this procedure, then again with the #35s.

This is an uncrimped lug to compare:

You can see how the progressive crimping procedure created a concave area between the corners of the hex shape. If you crimp in one step with a too large lug for the wire the excess metal just protrudes out between the dies and they never fully close. See the HF review I linked above for an example.

Although this is not a good looking crimp, it is tight. You can see in the first pic, the crimped area is about the same size as the wire outside the lug.

The math works out to a tight crimp as well. The wire is appx. .30, pre crimp. The lug wall thickness is .05. The crimp measures between .34 and .36 on the outside. Take off .10 for the lug wall (.05 X 2) and the cable, like George Clooney's character in Oh Brother, Where Art Thou, is in a tight spot!

I have been calling this is a lug, but it is really a contact for an Anderson SB175 battery connector. I get mine here. They also sell reducer bushings to allow smaller cable to be used in the 1/0 contact, which is the size I have. I have some bushings on order and will use those to hopefully make a better crimp. I don't think it is a good idea to crimp down this much over the design of the contact or lug barrel. You can see the edge of the die cuts into the barrel when crimping it down this small. Not good, could be the start of a break, or at least a crack.

One other note on using the tool. You do NOT have to remove the die retaining pin to insert or remove a typical battery lug. Just open the valve, let the piston retract some and the dies will separate enough to pull the lug out.
-jp

 

[Danglerb]

As I understand it the idea is to actually cold weld the connector to the wire. Too little reduction and its just clamped, too much and you start cutting the wire at the edge of the crimp.

So far this thread is not giving me any warm fuzzy feelings about crimps.

 

[Ramper]

I was just reading elsewhere that there is a thought that the crimpers are marked for SOLID AWG not stranded. This makes some sense as there is a value for 7 AWG SOLID.

Example: 4 gauge: .2043 (SOLID) .232 Stranded.

 

[soj]

I was just reading elsewhere that there is a thought that the crimpers are marked for SOLID AWG not stranded. This makes some sense as there is a value for 7 AWG SOLID.

Example: 4 gauge: .2043 (SOLID) .232 Stranded.

Most of these type crimpers I have found for sale are marked for metric wire sizes. For most, if not all metric sizes, there is no direct cross to an AWG size. For any size of AWG wire and terminal, using these metric dies is a **** shoot. I start with the largest size that will start to crimp the terminal, then use smaller sizes till I have "crimped the hell out of it". Not a very scientific measurement for sure, and it doesn't produce a very good looking crimp, but it holds. At least I can't pull, ****** or jerk it apart. Again, not a very scientific way of testing, but I have no way of measuring pull force.

As I understand it the idea is to actually cold weld the connector to the wire. Too little reduction and its just clamped, too much and you start cutting the wire at the edge of the crimp.

So far this thread is not giving me any warm fuzzy feelings about crimps.

I agree. And since I have already bought one, that lack of warm fuzziness is know as buyers remorse.

Your point about cutting the wire at the edge of the crimp is, I think, valid. Also, if you use an over sized lug, as I did with my second crimp shown above, it starts to cut into the lug barrel. But that would be true even using the properly sized jaws for the wire size. I was just wrong on several levels doing that crimp, but it was an experiment. I have since received the reducing bushings designed to adapt those 1/0 contacts to 1GA wire. I didn't get any pics, but they still crimped down too far to suit me. The reducer bushings, designed for 1GA wire were still a loose fit on the wire. BUT, the wire is from a Chinese made set of 25' jumper cables, sold as 1GA, but who knows what size they may actually be, maybe even metric wire relabeled for the US market. The wire itself is not marked, only on the box.

OTOH, the first crimp I made (shown in post #22) turned out well. No cutting of the barrel at the edge of the jaws and a smooth surface all around the crimped area.

YMMV, mine sure has.
-jp

 

[Ign]

Something that's seemingly been lost here is that for a DIY occasional use guy I'd argue these are still better than other more crude methods, and probably better than hammer crimpers. Still, the user has to exercise some common sense and, yes, we all know it's not common.

Should you build the space shuttle with these? Or even a Trophy Truck? No. But for homebrew jobs and less critical applications these still provide a better (and I'd say safer) crimp than "HIT 'ER WITH A ROCK CLETUS!" And they do it affordably.

While it would seem some believe there is only one perfect, acceptable crimp I'm willing to accept a wider tolerance, within reason. Specifically, I don't see a problem with a slight over crimp. Notice I said slight (and that's subjective, yes). It's still gonna hold. I understand the arguments about cutting strands, yes.

YMMV. Carry on! I'm off to die in a fiery crash because of a Chinese crimper (I know, I know -- at least a couple users are cheering hoping it's true).

 

[ncfh]

So what are the options for economical, but reliable large gauge crimp tools with properly sized dies and no buyers remorse?

 

[Ign]

Here's a more serious question: do the crimps have to be hex?. 'Cause if they could be round it'd be a simple affair to drill a hole in plate (could either drill and then part using a narrow kerf tool or drill two opposing plates for a perfect circle when closed together) and add the holes for the little locator pins.

IOW custom dies w round holes = easy, if they'd work?

If you've got access to CNC custom hex is easy too.

 

[Ign]

So what are the options for economical, but reliable large gauge crimp tools with properly sized dies and no buyers remorse?

The big bolt cutter style I think. I couldn't find any from a retailer with whom I was familiar and was in a hurry, so I was trying to stick w Amazon.

And while I love the dead-simple build of two handles and a couple pivots, damn they look unwieldy to use anyplace other than the bench.

 

[ncfh]

That was my thinking as well, get one of these cheap hyd crimpers and CNC myself some dies, but if I could just buy something for say $250 or less it would be worth it to me.

 

[Ign]

That was my thinking as well, get one of these cheap hyd crimpers and CNC myself some dies, but if I could just buy something for say $250 or less it would be worth it to me.

I spent $34 so at $250 the world is your oyster!

 

[ncfh]

Hah! I'm still nearly two decimal places short of the related AMP product kit!

No middle ground in this segment.

 

[Danglerb]

CNC the die is the easy part, now properly heat treat it.

Any luck grinding, or altering the dies the cheap crimpers come with?

 

[SantaAna12]

"Midrange hydraulic hand crimper megathread."?

 

[donthelegend]

CNC the die is the easy part, now properly heat treat it.

Any luck grinding, or altering the dies the cheap crimpers come with?

Would they really need to be heat treated though? We're talking about crimping aluminum and copper, I would think that steel dies would hold up pretty well to that without heat treatment.