Nitrogen caution!!!!

[wssix99]

I can't believe I just wasted the 20 L of nitrogen that coursed through my body reading this thread.

 

[pcmeiners]

"What if I eat at the "Loco Taco" and get real bad gas...can my farts kill me?"

Yes farts can be deadly, especially the "Silent But Deadly" types. Did you know farts have a high concentration of the dangerous, little known killer gas, Nitrogen.
Farts kill in two ways, either due to the chemical composition ( mainly due to Nitrogen) or due to the systemic shock induced by an SBD's fragrance. The LD 50 varies considerable from donor to donor.

http://chemistry.about.com/od/medicalhealth/f/What-Is-The-Chemical-Composition-Of-Farts.htm

 

[elguappo]

I am stunned at the amount of ignorance I've seen just skimming this thread.
I work for Airgas, the largest packaged gas supplier in the US.
Spreading this kind of misinformation is far more dangerous than the miniscule risk of nitrogen 'drowning'.

I work in the corporate office across the street from an acetylene factory.
You wanna talk about dangerous? Acetylene is incredibly dangerous. And yet it still has to be manufactured, packaged, transported and sold, millions of pounds of it a year without incident.
Worry about the things that actually SHOULD be worried about, like wearing seatbelts or making sure you don't have a gas leak in the house.
Leave the FUD (fear, uncertaintly & doubt) to CNN.

 

[Twisted Sid]

Granted we have very smart guys on this forum discussing the use of nitrogen in their tires. BUT, consider the hazard of this inert gas at home. If you acquire a bottle of nitrogen, where would you store it? Lets say, in you house garage for instance. Now there are many possible ways to have your N2 bottle or piping to develop a leak. Maybe even not closeing the valve tightly. Now the garage is filled with N2 which displaces the breathable oxygen. Then yourself or a family member enters the garage to play, do laundry, ect. It dosent take long before someone drops dead from lack of oxygen.
In my years of fire service.I have see this exact situation with propane stored in the garage except for the end results were an explosion when the leaking propane reached the water heater. Happened several times in my 17 years of service.
People just let their guards down on the hazards of propane. So will happen with nitrogen as the general public. Also. some people are just ignorant of such hazards. They Never even thought that there could be any concerns.

So, nitrogen is a great product, but VERY deadly!
Myself, I wish to try not add such a invisible, silent killer for one of my family members to accidently release. If not by my own inattention.

So between my welding tank, my nitrogen tank, and the small torch bottles that are all in the garage, I should just hold my breath every time I go out there until I open the garage door and let it ventilate?

Or I could just not go out there at all, sell everything that is "deadly", and sit in the house, alone, and not experience life. But I'll be "safe".

 

[jim1987]

So between my welding tank, my nitrogen tank, and the small torch bottles that are all in the garage, I should just hold my breath every time I go out there until I open the garage door and let it ventilate?

Or I could just not go out there at all, sell everything that is "deadly", and sit in the house, alone, and not experience life. But I'll be "safe".

Let somebody else sell your junk. You could be another craigslist victim. Don't sit in the house, the roof could colaspse. Far too many dangers in your plan.

 

[Twisted Sid]

Holy **** you're right! I live in California, we have earthquakes here.
WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!

 

[nehog]

This thread is beyond reasonable, and probably should be deleted.

So to get it deleted: bang his wife.

 

[gungatim]

As an engineer I was intrigued about the filling of tires with nitrogen and while there are numerous claims for it I really only see it as useful for its "dry" properties. For example, race tires can get very hot so any moisture in them may over-inflate them under worse case racing conditions. Additionally, moisture can migrate into the carcass of truck tires and corrode steel reinforcements, so dry nitrogen may extend their working lives of several retreads.

But there seems to be no point for average car tires. And in the case of bike tires which use inner tubes there is no risk of corrosion. I think the whole nitrogen craze is in the same genre as over-hyped speaker wire (ie, Monster Cable) or weight loss products.

...and dyson vacuums, and bose speakers...and tankless water heaters...and sna---oh you get the point...

 

[laser3kw]

hey to elguappo
I too use to work for Airgas. I started out on the fill island as a pumper, then became route driver and ended up as a facility manager.
Even though Airgas took safety as paramount, some people here would have a heart attack if the saw what was considered safe and normal proceedure when filling both high pressure and cyro tanks. It wasn't uncommon to vent cylinders into the atmosphere before hook up to the fill leads. Heck we even HAD TO do a sniff (oder) test on the oxygen cylinders to smell for the presence of acetylene residue before we could hook them for vacuum.
Not to mention venting a N2 cyro while filling on a hot summer day was quit refreshing.

 

[Pluribus]

Interesting discussion. So how large a tank of N2 would it take to totally displace all of the O2 in, say, a 2 car garage if it suddenly leaked out? Given the drafty nature of most garages, how long would this low O2 condition be sustained?

As I understand it:

The largest typical nitrogen tank has a capacity of around 330 cubic feet.

The typical two-car garage has a volume of 3800 cubic feet.

The solution is left to the reader.

Safety discussion is usually a good thing. And Nitrogen does in fact pose a risk....in various ways. But IMO the risk has been overstated here.

And yet the statistics report 8.5 deaths per year nationwide (or roughly .0000028% of the population). And the vast majority of those were in an enclosed vessel that would contain the nitrogen (and dilute the oxygen). I'm sorry, but I don't buy it....

How common is nitrogen storage at home? I'm curious as to why anyone would choose to tilt at this particular windmill. From my perspective it seems to be a solution in search of a problem.

 

[nehog]

The reason for nitrogen in tires is that it doesn't expand as much with temperature. This is meaningful for aircraft tires, and means little for car tires.

 

[APEowner]

The reason for nitrogen in tires is that it doesn't expand as much with temperature. This is meaningful for aircraft tires, and means little for car tires.

It actually expands at the same rate but since it's bottled clean and dry there's no moisture to mess with the expansion rate.

 

[joe_padavano]

It actually expands at the same rate but since it's bottled clean and dry there's no moisture to mess with the expansion rate.

THANK YOU.

The whole nitrogen filled tire thing is a farce. My tires have 79% nitrogen in them. It's the WATER VAPOR that causes the problems, not the oxygen. By the way, when the shop mounts a tire, what's the first thing they do? Yeah, swab the tire bead with that glycerine/water mix. FYI, the RuGlide sold by NAPA, which is probably the most commonly-used tire mounting lubricant, is just about 75% water according to NAPA's MSDS sheet on the product.

Tell me again how that dry nitrogen is helping???

 

[dbabicky]

It actually expands at the same rate but since it's bottled clean and dry there's no moisture to mess with the expansion rate.

Finally, Thank-You !! Moisture is the key. All this other BS is just that, BS!

 

[Bob Hall]

Wow....

I'm really surprised at the tone of some of the replies to this thread. The original poster simply pointed out a well known and very real potential hazard, just in case someone here hasn't been trained in such stuff. Yes, there are a whole lot of things that are more likely to take your life. Now you know one more. Use the information any way you wish.

 

[saceone]

dangerousdan is one serious cat. Working construction I see where he's coming from, the dumb things you see on jobsites during a work week...

 

[CNGsaves]

Every human being drinks that stuff 100% undiluted on a daily basis. So far, no ill effects in recorded history...

. . . and the tailpipe emissions of Honda Clarity are such a terrible thing !!

 

[BJ42LX]

Finally, Thank-You !! Moisture is the key. All this other BS is just that, BS!

Must... Resist...

 

[gpalmer77]

I am stunned at the amount of ignorance I've seen just skimming this thread.
I work for Airgas, the largest packaged gas supplier in the US.
Spreading this kind of misinformation is far more dangerous than the miniscule risk of nitrogen 'drowning'.

I work in the corporate office across the street from an acetylene factory.
You wanna talk about dangerous? Acetylene is incredibly dangerous. And yet it still has to be manufactured, packaged, transported and sold, millions of pounds of it a year without incident.
Worry about the things that actually SHOULD be worried about, like wearing seatbelts or making sure you don't have a gas leak in the house.
Leave the FUD (fear, uncertaintly & doubt) to CNN.

Wow. Just wow.

Doesn't Airgas do bulk liquid nitrogen too? With large industrial clients? If so, you should know better. My supplier was Praxair for bulk, and they were quick to support us and educate us when it comes to the dangers of nitrogen.

I agree, the household scenario that is the topic of this thread is unlikely, but I guarantee, you take one breath of 100% nitrogen, that's all you get. Breathing regulation is stopped, you go down. If you're the first guy in say a vessel entry, the second guy isn't coming in until the problem is fixed or someone with an airpack arrives.

Most people likely will never have the need to worry about this risk, for some of us it is an everyday occurrence, so we educate ourselves in safely working with it. Please don't dismiss it as misinformation on a public forum.

 

[laser3kw]

I told you not to call me "Shirley" in front of the others.

but I guarantee, you take one breath of 100% nitrogen, that's all you get. Breathing regulation is stopped, you go down.

again, I worked on the fill island and can tell you I have been in, around, and breathed 100% nitrogen and I AM here to tell you about it.
There is a huge difference between taking one or a few breaths of nitrogen and being exposed to it long enough to where your blood has no oxygen to absorb.
Yor body is designed to accommodate a certain amount of nitrogen. One breath won"t do it, your blood has ample oxygen to carry on. It's the same as taking a lung full of helium to talk mickey mouse or a lung full of sulfur hex to talk down deep. It's just real life -find it on you tube - does each person instantly die? And those are gases that our bodies are not normally equipped to handle in high concentrations.

Be Concerned, be cautious, be careful. But this point is WAY over exaggerated.

 

[gpalmer77]

I told you not to call me "Shirley" in front of the others.


again, I worked on the fill island and can tell you I have been in, around, and breathed 100% nitrogen and I AM here to tell you about it.
There is a huge difference between taking one or a few breaths of nitrogen and being exposed to it long enough to where your blood has no oxygen to absorb.
Yor body is designed to accommodate a certain amount of nitrogen. One breath won"t do it, your blood has ample oxygen to carry on. It's the same as taking a lung full of helium to talk mickey mouse or a lung full of sulfur hex to talk down deep. It's just real life -find it on you tube - does each person instantly die? And those are gases that our bodies are not normally equipped to handle in high concentrations.

Be Concerned, be cautious, be careful. But this point is WAY over exaggerated.

Nitrogen dissipates very quickly in air, I doubt you ever breathed 100% nitrogen on a fill island. In a confined space that has not been purged with air, the situation is different. This isn't about having oxygen reserves in your lungs/blood, it's about your body stopping breathing. Breathing regulation is about partial pressures of CO2 and oxygen, nitrogen messes that up because it is already present in breathing air. It is different to breathing other gases that simply limit oxygen and leave the remaining air in balance.

And as much as I want to say it, no, I don't want to see you do the trick where you breathe 100% nitrogen.

 

[exmaxima1]

Yor body is designed to accommodate a certain amount of nitrogen. One breath won"t do it, your blood has ample oxygen to carry on.
Be Concerned, be cautious, be careful. But this point is WAY over exaggerated.

Absolutely. You climb a mountain and the O2 level is reduced. Or take an overnight flight and they turn down the cabin pressure. Similar in concept to nitrogen asphyxiation---you get dizzy/sleepy but you don't die immediately.

 

[keelan]

I agree, the household scenario that is the topic of this thread is unlikely, but I guarantee, you take one breath of 100% nitrogen, that's all you get.

Read the physiology section here:

http://www.gistprobono.org/ihhp/id1.html

 

[gpalmer77]

Read the physiology section here:

http://www.gistprobono.org/ihhp/id1.html

This article is interesting, it certainly supports the dangers of nitrogen. However, analysis of industrial fatalities where bodies were retrieved mere steps inside a confined space have concluded that victims did not have enough breaths to get back to the entrance point. Injuries sustained suggest instant loss of consciousness, not onset of hypoxia over time. The physiology is tough to study, as the article says, lab animals don't control breathing in exactly the same way, and you can't really go around gassing humans these days.

It is actually fairly difficult to establish an atmosphere of 100% nitrogen, vessels containing flammables have to purged multiple times with nitrogen before oxygen levels drop to zero from the air previously occupying the vessel. Conversely, when returning the atmosphere to that of air, for confined space entry, the vessel has to be purged with air, and the nitrogen source locked out and typically blinded or disconnected, amongst other safeguards.

 

[gpalmer77]

Absolutely. You climb a mountain and the O2 level is reduced. Or take an overnight flight and they turn down the cabin pressure. Similar in concept to nitrogen asphyxiation---you get dizzy/sleepy but you don't die immediately.

Not strictly true. Air composition is the same at altitude, same ratio of oxygen and nitrogen, partial pressure is the key to what you're saying. At least in the first couple layers of the atmosphere.

 

[BC1]

What a joke this all is. The whole scenario is bogus! Your garage is vented (or should be) and it's not close to airtight without vents! It is IMPOSSIBLE to die in your garage because a nitrogen tank slowly leaked out, unless said tank is the size of a car.
Here's the most likely garage death concern: carbon monoxide from your unvented gas appliances (furnace, water heater and clothes dryer). Also assuming your using your garage as an illegal bedroom in which case you have my permission to die.

 

[wssix99]

What a joke this all is. The whole scenario is bogus! Your garage is vented (or should be) and it's not close to airtight without vents! It is IMPOSSIBLE to die in your garage because a nitrogen tank slowly leaked out, unless said tank is the size of a car.
Here's the most likely garage death concern: carbon monoxide from your unvented gas appliances (furnace, water heater and clothes dryer). Also assuming your using your garage as an illegal bedroom in which case you have my permission to die.

There we go. Excellent conclusion.

Mods - Please lock this one up before this one takes off again!