Anybody have trouble with soft Knipex jaws?

[Kirbot]

So I just picked up a pair of Knipex combination pliers.
Just from looking at them and fondling them, they really seem to ooze quality.
I'm normally a Channellock lover, but I can admit these feel awfully nice.


Until the first time I used them at least.
I only grabbed them twice, once to pull out a stuck woodruff key, and I think once to grip a small bolt. (most likely grade 1)

And when I looked at them afterwords, I noticed this....

I could almost understand if they were linesmans pliers or something specialized, designed for copper wire.....

But I expected these to be a good pair of general use pliers. Something I wouldn't have to pamper.

I had this happen once before with a pair of Snapons, and just got disgusted and sold them.

I ended up finishing the job with a pair of American Vice grips, with no ill effects.

 

[General Geoff]

Do you have a model # for these particular pliers?

 

[Kirbot]

Do you have a model # for these particular pliers?

03-200

It's this pair.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FACKJT0/?tag=atomicindus08-20

"Combination pliers
Designed to cut soft, medium and hard wires
Gripping zones for flat and round materials
Long cutting edges for thicker cables
Induction hardened cutting edges, approximately 60 HRC"

 

[AmishFury]

these look very similar to a set i bought from woot... i haven't used mine for anything yet

 

[General Geoff]

My guess is the Woodruff key did the damage. Those are often made of hardened steel, and if it was sufficiently stuck, it's not hard to imagine the pliers' serrations getting deformed slightly during maximum squeezing pressure.


I haven't had any damaged serrations with my Knipex long nose pliers, but I haven't had the need to manhandle hardened steel with them. They've mostly been used on softer metals and occasionally mild steel. The Cobra pliers, I've used on steel fasteners at great length with negligible wear on the teeth; but those teeth are significantly thicker than the thin serrations on your combo pliers.

 

[DirtyWeRX]

Hmm contact knipex. I believe They warranty the teeth on their tools

 

[Kirbot]

I'll have to mess with them some more tomorrow and update.

If low grade hardware proves to be too much for them, I'll go ahead and contact Knipex. Something has to be wrong.

If it was the woodruff, I guess I can live with that.

 

[Miskin]

I did some hardness measure tests with some pliers, among them the Knipex 03200. The results indicated that the hardness near the teeth is 30-35 HRC unlike the cutter which its hardness is near to 45 HRC. I think this model is not something special.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

30-35 HRC is pretty soft.

Why would they do that? Just for cost?

 

[Miskin]

I think the thinking of the German company is that high hardness does not need when you grab something with pliers to avoid the scar. Where you need high hardness is the cutter. Of cource neither 45 HRC for cutter is acceptable at least for me.

 

[neophyte]

I wonder if Knipex might be worried about having too high a hardness close to the jaw tips.

I don't know how deep into the steel the induction hardening process Knipex uses goes, but if Knipex tried to use the same process on the jaws that they used on the cutters, it could cause the jaw tip to be hardened all the way thru to the back side. This would make the tips hard, but also brittle, which could cause the plier tips to break off when used for a tough prying task.

This is just a guess.

 

[gooblunar]

I have had trouble with soft jaws on my Knipex. I have used them before and have the teeth destroyed. So finished the job with channel looks no problem.

 

[gti]

Earing people talk about knipex is kinda crazy.

Some say they are fantastic and then i see this.

 

[Miskin]

I'm talking about the specific Knipex pliers 023200. Not the ensemble of Knipex tools.

 

[bcradio]

similar has happened to my Knipex Cobra pliers 12". The jaws have a gash in them similar to the picture you posted. They still function fine though, so I just keep using them.

 

[Kirbot]

Well, I'm a bit disappointed... For being such a good looking, comfortable pair of pliers, I'm going to be afraid to use them at this rate...

It turns out they devour grade 1 hardware with no trouble. I rounded off a bolt with the big serrations and griped it on the fine teeth and they held up fine.

But it met it's match with a grade 5 bolt from tractor supply. Even the big jaws just started to smear over trying to round it out.

Maybe I'm expecting too much from them, but I've always beat the **** out of my channellocks, and I've never noticed any abnormal wear on them.

 

[Miskin]

I believe that the pliers considered consumable tool from Knipex. That's why 03200 is very cheap. I wish I had the ability to measure the hardness of a Chanellock pliers.

 

[1foxracing]

Check that description in the Amazon link " Induction hardened cutting edges, approximately 60 HRC"
Maybe you got a Monday morning pair? Send them back for replacement.

 

[Kirbot]

I believe that the pliers considered consumable tool from Knipex. That's why 03200 is very cheap. I wish I had the ability to measure the hardness of a Chanellock pliers.

Have you ever tested any other brands of pliers?


I hate to think of a $20 tool as disposable.
They may be cheap for Knipex, but I've never spent more than that on any other brand of pliers. Except for the Snapons which had exactly the same problem....

 

[Kirbot]

Check that description in the Amazon link " Induction hardened cutting edges, approximately 60 HRC"
Maybe you got a Monday morning pair? Send them back for replacement.

That's what I'm hoping

I don't know if they're going to cover it though.
I got them brand new, but in a trade. So I can't show a receipt.

 

[Murphy4570]

I've got a few pairs of pliers that are like that. I've just cleaned them up with a file and kept on going.

Consider pliers a consumable item.

 

[Tellingthem]

I think HJE got a bunch of those in a little while ago. Might be why they are getting rid of them. Either way I would just contact Knipex and see what they will do for you.

Edit. and on epsteins they do call them "linemans pliers" if they are the same. http://store.harryepstein.com/cp/Knipex/0301200D4A.html

 

[Miskin]

Have you ever tested any other brands of pliers?


I hate to think of a $20 tool as disposable.
They may be cheap for Knipex, but I've never spent more than that on any other brand of pliers. Except for the Snapons which had exactly the same problem....

I tested Knipex, Alarm, Odur-Fit(all made in Germany) and Unior(made in Slovenia). Also a Merry pliers,made in Japan.
edit:It is obvious that i can't measure the hardness exactly on the cutter's surface. The measurement is approximate.

How much a pair of 8" Channellock pliers costs?

 

[Kirbot]

I tested Knipex, Alarm, Odur-Fit(all made in Germany) and Unior(made in Slovenia). Also a Merry pliers,made in Japan.
edit:It is obvious that i can't measure the hardness exactly on the cutter's surface. The measurement is approximate.

How much a pair of 8" Channellock pliers costs?

They don't seem to make exactly the same kind, but similar pliers hover right around $20. About the same as the Knipex.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005GPFTOG/?tag=atomicindus08-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004SBDA/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Normal slip joints are even cheaper.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002FT6H6/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Manny2_0]

Those are not expensive pliers, they can be had for sub $20 shipped

And teeth wear out
It's metal against metal

 

[Kirbot]

Those are not expensive pliers, they can be had for sub $20 shipped

And teeth wear out
It's metal against metal

No kidding.
But I expect them to hold up a little longer than two days.

Especially comparing them to every other sub $20 pair of channellocks I have.

 

[dsp1]

No kidding.
But I expect them to hold up a little longer than two days.

Especially comparing them to every other sub $20 pair of channellocks I have.

Different pair of Channellocks, but they did manage to chew up a grade 8 bolt and the teeth were still in good shape http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=279232.

 

[anurag1990]

60 HRC is for cutting edges, not the whole plier. There is a CRV steel heavy duty knipex combination plier, whose front teeths of jaw are rated near about 50-55 HRC. So with this 200 mm plier that is cheapest for knipex, I can imagine less hardness,maybe smewhere around 40 HRC or so. As for any tool, damages are part of it. I looked at pics you posted ( my mobile browser did not download full size though), i think damage isnt too much. but if i missed seeing a clearer picture, and damage to teeth is a too much, i think replacement shoulf be sought.