Drainage and Driveway help

[Catadj78]

I am in the process of building my shop

40x40 pole building.

I had help setting the main poles, trusses and putting the roof metal on. I have 3 sides ready to go that I did by myself.

The lot behind my house that I bought to build on is sloped. 13" across the 40'. Sloped towards the back of my house.

I chose to dig down on the high side instead of building up. If the slope would have been away from the house I would have just built up.

The left side of the building top of concrete is now 9" or so higher than grade. Front will be 5" or so depending on final grade.

On the left side since it was a hill that I was cutting down I decided to level out another 15' and build a lean to at a later time to assist in keeping water away from the building.

Left/Rear of building



Left of building showing where lean to will be built at a later time as well as front towards the driveway




I have the lean to area graded so that water flows away from the building towards the left also towards the back of the building however it does not drain quick enough from this area. I can not go higher on the front left corner and cant go lower on the left rear corner. Once this lean to is built and gutters are up I dont see it as being quite the problem it is now.

In this area I am thinking about grading the area towards the center and installing a drain and 4" pipe flowing towards the front of the building and emptying in a ditch. I will eventually concrete this area as well as the driveway but for now it will be stone.

thoughts on this??

Now onto the driveway. The area in front will be graded down about 4" from the middle of the front towards the left. Plenty of slope and no drainage issues in the front, right and rear of building. Then it will taper down into the lean to area.

I have clay soil.

What should I do before putting stone in this area? I also have to place a culvert in front of the gates in the one picture. Thoughts on how to go about doing this??

I do have a guy that will be coming to do final grade for me but I would also like to have some sort of idea before he comes. He has stopped by to look and said there would be no problems with drainage already but did not go into details at the time.

The front and right of building. Plenty of room to do final in this area.



Sorry for the long post but I am trying to do as much of this myself as possible

 

[TonkaJoe]

Culvert how to- Most important #1 thing to do is call your utilities location company BEFORE you dig, ( which I'm sure you know) better safe than sorry!. 1-Make the trench deep enough to allow for the tube plus 6 inches for base material. Slope the trench so that water flows from the high side of the driveway to the low side.
2-Add 3/4-inch to 2-inch gravel mix to a depth of 2 1/2 inches with the loader. Compact the gravel in place with a vibrating compactor. Add an additional 2 1/2 inches of gravel mix and compact it. 3-Lay a carpenter’s level on top of the packed gravel to ensure that the base is higher on one end than the other. It doesn’t need much slope, but the pipe must allow the water to flow downhill.
4-Set the pipe in position on top of the gravel base, maintaining the slope. The bottom of the pipe should be level with the bottom of the drainage ditch. If necessary, add or remove gravel from either end to get the desired slope.
5-Add 6 inches of 3/4-inch to 1-inch gravel on both sides of the culvert pipe. Compact it in place with the compactor. Continue to add equal amounts of gravel to both sides of the pipe in 6-inch increments until you reach the top of the pipe. Compact each addition.
6-Cover the driveway culvert pipe with a layer of 3/4-inch to 2-inch gravel mix. The total of the driveway’s surface material and the gravel should total at least 6 inches. For example, if you're putting down a 4-inch thick asphalt driveway over the culvert, you need at least 2 inches of rock between the culvert and the asphalt. Pack the gravel with a compactor.
Hopefully someone can put in 2 cent's worth regarding Clay sub.. the soils I generally work with range in shale to sand in my area, we don't have much clay! I'd have to do a little more research to help you out, but it sounds like you have good knowledge of what your doing so far!. Last but not least, Beautiful shop!!!

 

[TonkaJoe]

I chose to dig down on the high side instead of building up. If the slope would have been away from the house I would have just built up.

^ You definitely made the right decision with this.

I have the lean to area graded so that water flows away from the building towards the left also towards the back of the building however it does not drain quick enough from this area. I can not go higher on the front left corner and cant go lower on the left rear corner. Once this lean to is built and gutters are up I dont see it as being quite the problem it is now.

In this area I am thinking about grading the area towards the center and installing a drain and 4" pipe flowing towards the front of the building and emptying in a ditch. I will eventually concrete this area as well as the driveway but for now it will be stone.

thoughts on this??

^ This is a good idea and looks as though it would work well, you have the possibility of a French drain / weeping tile.. maybe even a traditional style footing drain as well.

 

[volleyball]

Maybe the best thing is to get the grader back and go out further from the building. Have a lower area away from the building that the water can collect in and not be a problem. Temporary pond for lack of better description. Grade the area so that the water tends to run around the building instead of into.

 

[Catadj78]

Culvert how to- Most important #1 thing to do is call your utilities location company BEFORE you dig, ( which I'm sure you know) better safe than sorry!. 1-Make the trench deep enough to allow for the tube plus 6 inches for base material. Slope the trench so that water flows from the high side of the driveway to the low side.
2-Add 3/4-inch to 2-inch gravel mix to a depth of 2 1/2 inches with the loader. Compact the gravel in place with a vibrating compactor. Add an additional 2 1/2 inches of gravel mix and compact it. 3-Lay a carpenter’s level on top of the packed gravel to ensure that the base is higher on one end than the other. It doesn’t need much slope, but the pipe must allow the water to flow downhill.
4-Set the pipe in position on top of the gravel base, maintaining the slope. The bottom of the pipe should be level with the bottom of the drainage ditch. If necessary, add or remove gravel from either end to get the desired slope.
5-Add 6 inches of 3/4-inch to 1-inch gravel on both sides of the culvert pipe. Compact it in place with the compactor. Continue to add equal amounts of gravel to both sides of the pipe in 6-inch increments until you reach the top of the pipe. Compact each addition.
6-Cover the driveway culvert pipe with a layer of 3/4-inch to 2-inch gravel mix. The total of the driveway’s surface material and the gravel should total at least 6 inches. For example, if you're putting down a 4-inch thick asphalt driveway over the culvert, you need at least 2 inches of rock between the culvert and the asphalt. Pack the gravel with a compactor.
Hopefully someone can put in 2 cent's worth regarding Clay sub.. the soils I generally work with range in shale to sand in my area, we don't have much clay! I'd have to do a little more research to help you out, but it sounds like you have good knowledge of what your doing so far!. Last but not least, Beautiful shop!!!

The ditch is maybe 1' deep at the most from road elevation. My thoughts was to use the front end loader I have borrowed to scoop out for the culvert. Place culvert and surround with llenty of clay I have available. Concrete the culvert ends to prevent movement as well as errosion.

I have never done any type of dirt work other than this project.

Thanks, hope it turns out well

 

[Catadj78]

^ You definitely made the right decision with this.


^ This is a good idea and looks as though it would work well, you have the possibility of a French drain / weeping tile.. maybe even a traditional style footing drain as well.

I have another garage door that will be facing the house. The ramp will already be higher than id like but I dug down as much as I thought I could get away with.


after researching many hours yesterday and last night I think I am going to go with the drain. Regrade the lean to area to make somewhat of a bowl with larger catch basin drain in middle. Also run 4" catching both downspouts on that side as well as the catch basin sloping to rear of shop and then sloping down hill at the back with another catch basin (mainly to catch debris to stop clogging) then sloping towards the house but towards ditch where it will empty. Also catching the other two downspouts on the right side.

Forsee any problems with 4" catching 4 downspouts and 2 catch basins? This way seems much cheaper than a freench drain.

 

[Catadj78]

Maybe the best thing is to get the grader back and go out further from the building. Have a lower area away from the building that the water can collect in and not be a problem. Temporary pond for lack of better description. Grade the area so that the water tends to run around the building instead of into.

Grade runs around building now. I have no water in the building now. Got 2"s the other night I am estimating. I do get pooling in the area of the future lean to which is what I am trying to avoid.

if I can control the roof water I believe the rest will take care of itself

 

[volleyball]

Is the grade such that you can drain away the water with just gravity to an area suitable?
I have lots of drains around my property and plan on adding more. I am on the hill so water management is a big concern. I try for grading and pipe drains only when needed.
You don't need a lot of pitch if you have enough area.
Most places have rules as to where you send your water. Do you know the regs?

 

[MScott]

if I can control the roof water I believe the rest will take care of itself

How about using some gutters or eavestroughing to control the roof water, then direct the downspouts into your drainage? That should get rid of most of your water. You shouldn't have any problem with snow or ice on the roof so gutters should work.

 

[Catadj78]

No regulations building codes etc here.

There is enough grade for gravity to get rid of the water but in this area I do plan on the lean to and eventual concrete. This is also where I plan to park my boat once the lean to is finished. I figured with a drain I could rinse the boat out or was cars etc and not worry about getting the yard wet while under the roof.

I am installing gutters on that side right now.

With gravity only water drains to the neighbors yard since where the shop is built is on top of the hill sloping towards my house as well as the neighbors. I'd like to get all the water to the ditch at the front of the shop to help getting away from not only the neighbors but my house as well. Standing in the shop I am about level with the house gutters. The house is about 100' away. Significant drop.

I looked at dry wells. Which also may be an idea to save on some digging. I'll have to shoot grade around the right side of the shop to see how deep the drains would have to be. I am running a water line from the house as well as tying into the house sewer line which is about 50' from the shop. Don't want to be crossing drainage line with everything else.

 

[TonkaJoe]

Forsee any problems with 4" catching 4 downspouts and 2 catch basins? This way seems much cheaper than a freench drain.

4'' will be plenty adequate especially with 2 catch basins.. I'd personally add gutter guard at the down spouts and silt sack in the basins if you want to make absolutely sure you'll always have maximum outflow.. just saves plugging up with leaves and debris since we all have that issue!.

 

[Catadj78]

4'' will be plenty adequate especially with 2 catch basins.. I'd personally add gutter guard at the down spouts and silt sack in the basins if you want to make absolutely sure you'll always have maximum outflow.. just saves plugging up with leaves and debris since we all have that issue!.

I got the gutters up on the left side yesterday. Also purchased the pipe for the left side draining. I am figuring it will be about 170' of drainage pipe all together.

Never dealing with this before. Is 170' too much of a run with 4" . Anything I need to be aware of? Tips other than making sure it has fall.

 

[volleyball]

If you will be draining muddy water, it will eventually fill up. May be years if debris catches or decades. So bigger is better. If your soil is all clay then you may want to go with non perforated which means all the water will flow through and not drain off such as sand would.
Maybe some catch basins/ clean outs along the way.

 

[Catadj78]

If you will be draining muddy water, it will eventually fill up. May be years if debris catches or decades. So bigger is better. If your soil is all clay then you may want to go with non perforated which means all the water will flow through and not drain off such as sand would.
Maybe some catch basins/ clean outs along the way.

Its all clay. Slick nasty a** when wet clay. I am thinking of scooping the clay out a couple of inches and replace with sand in this area.


At least 2 catch basins

 

[TonkaJoe]

The only reason I mentioned the silt sacks for the catch basins was because I noticed the maple? trees in the background.. I assume if you were to get a storm you'd be dealing with more than just clay runoff.. small twigs, leaves.. maybe even grass clippings. Those will make a substantial difference as far as keeping your pipes clean and plug free.(Volleyball) Has a good idea with adding a clean out along that 170' run... you never know how handy that could be in the future!. Just make sure you have plenty of run on that pipe.. I'd use a laser level to get the grade bang on... any spot you have a slump in that pipe will result in buildup.

 

[Catadj78]

Lol, the left side gutters have been up for about 24 hours. Full of leaves already. Will be installing gutter guards asap.


It is raining now here. Right now the dirt is lower than the grade across the front and left. No water inside the footprint of the building.

I believe that it will be best to install the gutter drainage and catch basin on the left side around the back following the natural grade then coming across the right side at an angle following the natural grade catching the ditch out front as well as the right side gutters. Also I am thinking of adding a slab drain across the front apron sloping down to the same pipe wrapping around the building.

I have no water now but I am afraid of what may happen if a huge rain comes.

Am I overdoing it?

 

[TonkaJoe]

I have large pine trees in my yard and no large maple.. but I always have to remove the neighbour's leaves which migrate to my place from my gutters each fall lol.

The main thing to remember when changing grade etc in an area is to try your absolute best to stick with '' the lay of the land'' in other words try to keep run off and water flow as natural as possible so you don't run into trouble. A slab drain wouldn't be a bad idea to tie in to your drainage system, but it's definitely not needed... once again I'd make sure it was kept clean and definitely keep something at the drain pipe entrance to keep debris out if you do decide to go ahead with that plan.

As far as your worry about your shop flooding... Lets remember, you won't win a battle with mother nature. If you do by chance get a hell of a storm there's not much you can do especially after all the planning and precautions you've taken.. After all you built yourself a shop, not Noah's ark!

I think you'll be good to go!

 

[volleyball]

It doesn't hurt to put in a continuous drain across the entrance. That and a small slope apron in front will go a long way.
Anything you do for water management pays off big dividends. With the clay, you get more runoff than absorption. Not as bad as the SW where a few inches of rain causes flooding or the north where the same rain get absorbed quickly and rarely any flooding.