goldenfirebird
Member
More good stuff from one of the masters of good things here on GJ.
Thanks again.
Denny
Thanks again.
Denny
Tooling organization
- Thread starter lilscorpion
- Start date
I'm trying to judge the size of the new table is it 36 by 72 or 84 or so?
1545 extrusions? Is the top attached to the top of the extrusions? and do you plan on boring holes in it?
do you find it sturdy with no flex?
Thanks and sorry for the barrage of questions.
Ron
1545 extrusions? Is the top attached to the top of the extrusions? and do you plan on boring holes in it?
do you find it sturdy with no flex?
Thanks and sorry for the barrage of questions.
Ron
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
No problem, I didn't really take any pictures of it specifically. Next time I get it out I'll do a write up on it and add it to the thread.
It's 72 long by 39 wide made from 1545's with a temporary 1/2-inch thick sheet of MDF as a sacrificial top. The goal is to eventually build a torsion box top similar to the smaller table so I can clamp larger assemblies to it while I'm building them.
Interesting you should ask about flex. When I was building it I thought for sure that it would be rigid enough. What I found is that on uneven floor the assembly will rack. One of the cabinets I built ended up being out of square because the table was not level when I had it set up. Basically each time I set it up I have to check for level and adjust the feed to make sure it is before I start building. That wasn't expected but doesn't surprise me. Other than that the table itself is very strong and I can stand on it without it moving.
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OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
With the main wall done it was time to move onto the second wall. This wall is smaller than the primary wall and only has enough space for a couple upper cabinets, a desk, and what my wife or my now referred to as the scrapbooking drawer base. Basically my wife needed a place to keep all of her scrapbooking stuff but she normally kept inside mobile organizers that she takes to and from scrapbooking events.
The square cabinets seem to go to gather fairly quickly. The 90° cabinets on the ends seem to take forever to put together. And the larger 90° base for the small wall seem to go slower than the rest. I think that really was just the fact that it took more thought. Since I machine everything before assembly I was spending a lot of time working around piles of precut material and partially assembled the cabinets and tops.
One of The other differences between building the 90° cabinets and the other cabinets is I would dry assemble them and then take them inside and see if they fit dimensionally compared to the cabinet they were sitting next to only to take it back outside and glue it up.
Next was the 10 1/2 foot countertop for the primary wall. This countertop would be using for mostly scrapbook activities and for us to set up our laptops when we work from home. When talking about the material and the intended use of this particular countertop we decided to use laminate so that it could be replaced if it gets damaged during the scrapbooking another hobby activities.
I decided to use particleboard for the substrate and put a red Oak edge on it that could be stained to match the cabinets. Working with such a large top was difficult since the open space in the room was actually shorter than the length of the top itself. Actually lucked out and was able to use my old workbench countertop as a work surface on top of my MFT horses.
The scrapbooking drawer base was made to be taller than the rest of the countertops so that we would have one standing worksurface. Since this wall would have two different surfaces I had to make a top just to fit the drawer base in the end base.
The square cabinets seem to go to gather fairly quickly. The 90° cabinets on the ends seem to take forever to put together. And the larger 90° base for the small wall seem to go slower than the rest. I think that really was just the fact that it took more thought. Since I machine everything before assembly I was spending a lot of time working around piles of precut material and partially assembled the cabinets and tops.
One of The other differences between building the 90° cabinets and the other cabinets is I would dry assemble them and then take them inside and see if they fit dimensionally compared to the cabinet they were sitting next to only to take it back outside and glue it up.
Next was the 10 1/2 foot countertop for the primary wall. This countertop would be using for mostly scrapbook activities and for us to set up our laptops when we work from home. When talking about the material and the intended use of this particular countertop we decided to use laminate so that it could be replaced if it gets damaged during the scrapbooking another hobby activities.
I decided to use particleboard for the substrate and put a red Oak edge on it that could be stained to match the cabinets. Working with such a large top was difficult since the open space in the room was actually shorter than the length of the top itself. Actually lucked out and was able to use my old workbench countertop as a work surface on top of my MFT horses.
The scrapbooking drawer base was made to be taller than the rest of the countertops so that we would have one standing worksurface. Since this wall would have two different surfaces I had to make a top just to fit the drawer base in the end base.
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
Re: Tool Organization
A smaller countertop was made for the small wall desk. This is where the permanent desktop will sit and where family members will spend time on the computer. This picture gives an idea of the overall layout of the office now that the primary parts run place. Finally usable again sort of.
Here's a better shot of one of the 90° upper cabinets in glue up. At some point I'll document how I build the face frames. After the face frames are assembled on the cabinet I cut the base of the cabinet to match the final dimensions. It allows me to make them exactly the same every time.
With both upper 90° cabinets complete, The final vision of the office is now coming together.
A smaller countertop was made for the small wall desk. This is where the permanent desktop will sit and where family members will spend time on the computer. This picture gives an idea of the overall layout of the office now that the primary parts run place. Finally usable again sort of.
Here's a better shot of one of the 90° upper cabinets in glue up. At some point I'll document how I build the face frames. After the face frames are assembled on the cabinet I cut the base of the cabinet to match the final dimensions. It allows me to make them exactly the same every time.
With both upper 90° cabinets complete, The final vision of the office is now coming together.
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
Re: Tool Organization
To illuminate all of the work services we decided to use LED lighting instead of the incandescent lighting we used in the kitchen. It seems that the lights in the kitchen constantly blow bulbs and I've been replacing them nonstop since we put them in. I found a company called inspired LED.com that got really good reviews on a couple of websites that I found. Here's a link to what we selected call radiant series lights - http://inspiredled.com/radiant-edge-series. Even though they were substantially more expensive, we were hoping they would finish well. They shipped quickly and we had them within the week.
To illuminate all of the work services we decided to use LED lighting instead of the incandescent lighting we used in the kitchen. It seems that the lights in the kitchen constantly blow bulbs and I've been replacing them nonstop since we put them in. I found a company called inspired LED.com that got really good reviews on a couple of websites that I found. Here's a link to what we selected call radiant series lights - http://inspiredled.com/radiant-edge-series. Even though they were substantially more expensive, we were hoping they would finish well. They shipped quickly and we had them within the week.
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
On a side, and completely separate note, I finally figured out what to use that stupid pole in the middle of the garage for. The previous owner of the house had dry walled in the pole to prevent the doors from getting dinged up on the cars. It turned out that the box is exactly the same size as my Festool track saw rails. Sweet.
Here's an interesting thing about my personality I never noticed before. Every time I get into a project that's fairly large I end up with a substantial mess in the garage. Every time I get about half into the project I feel like organizing so for some reason I start an organization project mid other project. Now that I've noticed that I realize why I end up with so many projects in flight.
Festool incorporates and sells systainers in their system. They serve two purposes-one is to protect their tools between factory and consumer and the other is an easy way for the user to carry tools between shop in site. For most of the tools there may be a sustainer for the primary tool and a second sustainer for the accessories. here's the Carvex (Jigsaw) one
What an awesome little jigsaw by the way. One of its super slick features as it has a pulsing LED that strobes with the saw blade stroke so that you can see the cut clear as day.
Coupled with dust extraction and a bunch of specialty feet you just couldn't ask for anymore and a jigsaw.
Here's the accessory systainer
So as you start to build your fest tool collection a new problem exists. Where do you store/keep all of these systainers and still get access to them as you need them? A guy out of the Netherlands came up with a really neat idea for a mobile work table that also turns the sustainers into drawers that are easily accessible - http://www.benchworks.be/mftc.html. Smack dab in the middle of my office project I decide to build three of them. Totally *******.
To my pleasant surprise I find that my modified height (I never can just make it like someone's instructions) fits exactly under the MFT table and leave just enough table for the vacuum next to it. Perfect.
Thought I'd share how the drawers work in the MFTC since they ended up kind of slick. I use my CNC mill to cut the recess for the bottom feet on the sustainer and the plans call for cutting out the middle so that the drawers extremely light.
The fit is so tight that you get full retention with almost no slop.
Here's a little gem I found on Amazon. One of the challenges I've had in the past is cutting chamfered edges into Machine services that either have a shallow whole or a tight radiused corner. These are micro router bits which have extremely small guide bearings. They have quarter and shanks and likely aren't super durable but they can get into some tight spots.
Here's an interesting thing about my personality I never noticed before. Every time I get into a project that's fairly large I end up with a substantial mess in the garage. Every time I get about half into the project I feel like organizing so for some reason I start an organization project mid other project. Now that I've noticed that I realize why I end up with so many projects in flight.
Festool incorporates and sells systainers in their system. They serve two purposes-one is to protect their tools between factory and consumer and the other is an easy way for the user to carry tools between shop in site. For most of the tools there may be a sustainer for the primary tool and a second sustainer for the accessories. here's the Carvex (Jigsaw) one
What an awesome little jigsaw by the way. One of its super slick features as it has a pulsing LED that strobes with the saw blade stroke so that you can see the cut clear as day.
Coupled with dust extraction and a bunch of specialty feet you just couldn't ask for anymore and a jigsaw.
Here's the accessory systainer
So as you start to build your fest tool collection a new problem exists. Where do you store/keep all of these systainers and still get access to them as you need them? A guy out of the Netherlands came up with a really neat idea for a mobile work table that also turns the sustainers into drawers that are easily accessible - http://www.benchworks.be/mftc.html. Smack dab in the middle of my office project I decide to build three of them. Totally *******.
To my pleasant surprise I find that my modified height (I never can just make it like someone's instructions) fits exactly under the MFT table and leave just enough table for the vacuum next to it. Perfect.
Thought I'd share how the drawers work in the MFTC since they ended up kind of slick. I use my CNC mill to cut the recess for the bottom feet on the sustainer and the plans call for cutting out the middle so that the drawers extremely light.
The fit is so tight that you get full retention with almost no slop.
Here's a little gem I found on Amazon. One of the challenges I've had in the past is cutting chamfered edges into Machine services that either have a shallow whole or a tight radiused corner. These are micro router bits which have extremely small guide bearings. They have quarter and shanks and likely aren't super durable but they can get into some tight spots.
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OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
Okay, if you're keeping up I'm about to get to the point where all of you were going to shake your head and think I'm really a *******. There are only so many hours in a day and my wife and I have decided to hire a contractor to come in and do some tile work in the master and the kids bathroom. We started planning this about a year ago but the guy had had challenges getting us on his schedule. Surprise, he can start tomorrow. so in the middle of remodeling the office, and a few days into my organization side project, we start a full remodel on two bathrooms
Day 0
Day 1
When shopping around for vanities my wife found one that she liked but we couldn't find one in dimension that fit the whole in which we needed the cabinet to fit. Guess what? Sounds like I'm making cabinets for the bathroom. Here's the design that she liked only the upper cabinet needed to be a lot less deep.
So back to the material store for like the third time in a month and I begin assembling the base cabinet. Given the length was more than 80 inches I decide to build it into pieces so was easier to get upstairs.
Both the left and the right drawer base will have the same features but will mirror each other with the drawers in the middle. We adjusted the countertop height to be closer to 35 inches instead of the previous one which was closer to 30. I've got to the point now where I can build a cabinet in a day so it only takes me a couple to build both bases
On this pair of cabinets I took the next step in my face frame learning evolution and made the face frames removal so that I could finish them off of the cabinets. And all of the office cabinets the face frames were physically attached and then I stained them after they were attached. This proved to be the only way to finish face frames and I'll never do it another way again. Using the domino tool I'm able to assemble the face frames on the cabinet, remove them from the cabinet, screw/glue them together using pocket holes, and sand them
...while the cabinets are sitting somewhere else. Much more manageable.
Day 0
Day 1
When shopping around for vanities my wife found one that she liked but we couldn't find one in dimension that fit the whole in which we needed the cabinet to fit. Guess what? Sounds like I'm making cabinets for the bathroom. Here's the design that she liked only the upper cabinet needed to be a lot less deep.
So back to the material store for like the third time in a month and I begin assembling the base cabinet. Given the length was more than 80 inches I decide to build it into pieces so was easier to get upstairs.
Both the left and the right drawer base will have the same features but will mirror each other with the drawers in the middle. We adjusted the countertop height to be closer to 35 inches instead of the previous one which was closer to 30. I've got to the point now where I can build a cabinet in a day so it only takes me a couple to build both bases
On this pair of cabinets I took the next step in my face frame learning evolution and made the face frames removal so that I could finish them off of the cabinets. And all of the office cabinets the face frames were physically attached and then I stained them after they were attached. This proved to be the only way to finish face frames and I'll never do it another way again. Using the domino tool I'm able to assemble the face frames on the cabinet, remove them from the cabinet, screw/glue them together using pocket holes, and sand them
...while the cabinets are sitting somewhere else. Much more manageable.
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OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
Re: Tool Organization
At this point it's like I'm trying to make the project more complicated than it needs to be. When looking in the master bath after the demo I had and epiphany. The storage closet in the bathroom could be cut out and I can replace it with a built-in that would allow us to have a bunch of really nice and deep drawers to store all of our stuff as well as shelf uppers that would be adjustable. It be far better than the fixed shelves that are in there now. The wife agrees and I now have another, and very tall cabinet to build. Here I am assembling the upper vanity and the built-in.
Because the built-in was more than 80 inches tall I also built it into pieces. The lower would be a drawer base they could be carried upstairs by itself in the upper would be the shelf assembly. This made fabrication a little easier as I was able to drill the upper boards for the shelf pins and not have to manhandle extremely long pieces of material (not that I could even get 84 inch long prefinished Baltic Birch anyway).
It took a little figuring but I decided that I would make a single face frame for the built in so that it wasn't obvious that it was made in two pieces. The assembly was no different than the smaller face frames it was just a lot larger.
Evenings were spent staining and clearcoating the face frames for the two vanities. Three coats of stain six coats of poly and they're ready to go.
So far all of the finishing had been relatively easy other than a just a time. After staining the face frame for the large built-in I ran into my first finishing problem. Apparently I hadn't sanded the face frame as much as I had the others and some of the glue was left in one of the joints so that the stain would not absorb into the wood.
What happened next turned out to be one of the coolest things I learned during this project. I had posted for some advice on FOG and someone replied with how he would fix it which, simply put, was sanding the localized area and re-staining and then dealing with it being potentially lighter than the other area. Well I misunderstood this guy and I thought what he meant was "flood the area with stain and then sand lightly with the grain while the area is flooded so that you can break the surface of the glue and allow the stain to soak into the wood". Check it out -
After the first attempt
Second
Third
Fourth
And the money shot (fifth)
Less than a minute Per attempt and I had a perfect fix in less than five minutes. Considering I was thinking I was going to have to send a large portion of it down to get the color to match right I was tickled that it was so simple. There were a few other spots I need to touch up using my new technique and I was ready for clear. Sometimes you win.
At this point it's like I'm trying to make the project more complicated than it needs to be. When looking in the master bath after the demo I had and epiphany. The storage closet in the bathroom could be cut out and I can replace it with a built-in that would allow us to have a bunch of really nice and deep drawers to store all of our stuff as well as shelf uppers that would be adjustable. It be far better than the fixed shelves that are in there now. The wife agrees and I now have another, and very tall cabinet to build. Here I am assembling the upper vanity and the built-in.
Because the built-in was more than 80 inches tall I also built it into pieces. The lower would be a drawer base they could be carried upstairs by itself in the upper would be the shelf assembly. This made fabrication a little easier as I was able to drill the upper boards for the shelf pins and not have to manhandle extremely long pieces of material (not that I could even get 84 inch long prefinished Baltic Birch anyway).
It took a little figuring but I decided that I would make a single face frame for the built in so that it wasn't obvious that it was made in two pieces. The assembly was no different than the smaller face frames it was just a lot larger.
Evenings were spent staining and clearcoating the face frames for the two vanities. Three coats of stain six coats of poly and they're ready to go.
So far all of the finishing had been relatively easy other than a just a time. After staining the face frame for the large built-in I ran into my first finishing problem. Apparently I hadn't sanded the face frame as much as I had the others and some of the glue was left in one of the joints so that the stain would not absorb into the wood.
What happened next turned out to be one of the coolest things I learned during this project. I had posted for some advice on FOG and someone replied with how he would fix it which, simply put, was sanding the localized area and re-staining and then dealing with it being potentially lighter than the other area. Well I misunderstood this guy and I thought what he meant was "flood the area with stain and then sand lightly with the grain while the area is flooded so that you can break the surface of the glue and allow the stain to soak into the wood". Check it out -
After the first attempt
Second
Third
Fourth
And the money shot (fifth)
Less than a minute Per attempt and I had a perfect fix in less than five minutes. Considering I was thinking I was going to have to send a large portion of it down to get the color to match right I was tickled that it was so simple. There were a few other spots I need to touch up using my new technique and I was ready for clear. Sometimes you win.
boiler7904
Well-known member
All of your work looks top notch. You're insane for tackling that many projects at once and must have the most understanding wife in the world. Mine would be so understanding and I'd probably be sleeping on the MFT in the garage.
I'm getting inspired and ready to start tackling a couple of carpentry projects around our house that start sometime next month.
I'm getting inspired and ready to start tackling a couple of carpentry projects around our house that start sometime next month.
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
Thank you for the compliments.
My wife is supportive of it because she's the driving force behind it. We just had a chat about how ridiculous the approach is yet sensical at the same time. I built all of the boxes/cabinets first, then will do drawers for all at the same time, then doors. I also designed the vanities to have the same drawer dimensions so 9 identical. Doing it this way I've minimized the setup time and can get more into a mass production mode and be more efficient doing it this way.
I am starting to get tired though. Maintaining the inertia is tough.
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
We were going to buy Mirriors until one of the contractors asked what I was going to do with the old one. Never even thought about reusing the originals. Could I cut it down myself? After watching a utube visor I went for it.
Then built two frames to match the planned design of the doors on the master vanity and built in. A simple mission style.
Used the CNC to machine the key hole recesses because I was in a hurry.
And got to staining
After assembly. The mirror is the structure of the assembly.
Then built two frames to match the planned design of the doors on the master vanity and built in. A simple mission style.
Used the CNC to machine the key hole recesses because I was in a hurry.
And got to staining
After assembly. The mirror is the structure of the assembly.
MN4x4
Well-known member
lilscorpion, you are insane - and a wonderful inspiration to get off my **** and go use my Festools.
Thank You!
Thank You!
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
Re: Tool Organization
Maybe a day I had my organizational tendencies it again. I spend a lot of time moving woodworking handtools around. Operating the way I normally operate in the shop on other activities I find myself taking tools out, Putting them away, only to take them back out again for some other activity. At some point in the last week I realize my need to put them away is actually a need to keep this place clean so I can operate. While surfing I found that festool sells a toolbox that fits inside a systainer and that many people have built their own version of this in an attempt to stay organized.
I found and downloaded templates from Lee Valley that helps you cut the exact inset pattern of a sustainer - http://www.leevalley.com/en/html/68K4710ieReg2.pdf. You can printed out on the computer, tape it together, and away you go.
Here's what I came up with using laminated 3/8-inch Baltic birch. So when I'm working on activities where I need handtools, I can take this out and set it on the counter top and it only takes up as much space as the organizer. so far it contains a Cabinet mallet, square, ratcheting screwdriver
The bottom accommodates a smaller Systainer for misc items.
Utility knife, mallet, folding ruler, various pliers, scissors, the various knives I like to have
Chisels and files
And when I'm done using it, I can drop it directly into a Systainer in one of the MFTC's and everything is away.
Maybe a day I had my organizational tendencies it again. I spend a lot of time moving woodworking handtools around. Operating the way I normally operate in the shop on other activities I find myself taking tools out, Putting them away, only to take them back out again for some other activity. At some point in the last week I realize my need to put them away is actually a need to keep this place clean so I can operate. While surfing I found that festool sells a toolbox that fits inside a systainer and that many people have built their own version of this in an attempt to stay organized.
I found and downloaded templates from Lee Valley that helps you cut the exact inset pattern of a sustainer - http://www.leevalley.com/en/html/68K4710ieReg2.pdf. You can printed out on the computer, tape it together, and away you go.
Here's what I came up with using laminated 3/8-inch Baltic birch. So when I'm working on activities where I need handtools, I can take this out and set it on the counter top and it only takes up as much space as the organizer. so far it contains a Cabinet mallet, square, ratcheting screwdriver
The bottom accommodates a smaller Systainer for misc items.
Utility knife, mallet, folding ruler, various pliers, scissors, the various knives I like to have
Chisels and files
And when I'm done using it, I can drop it directly into a Systainer in one of the MFTC's and everything is away.
akdiesel
Well-known member
lilscorpion
Wow, you have been busy. Great work as always.
Wow, you have been busy. Great work as always.
fattogatto
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2008
- Messages
- 167
You must be retired . . . . .
Modern Jess
Well-known member
Wow, so many updates, and so much to comment on. Randomly, off the top of my head:
- Great work on the office. The LED lights are a nice touch. I've used a lot of different LED products, but hadn't seen those ones, and I like the fact that they come in custom lengths. Do you happen to know the lumens per foot?
- Welcome to Hotel Festool. You can check out anytime you like, but you can't ever leave.
- The MFTC is on my bucket list. So is the tool-caddy-inside-a-systainer project. You're beating me to all the good stuff, dammit!
- Nice work all around! This thread is a never-ending inspiration.
- Great work on the office. The LED lights are a nice touch. I've used a lot of different LED products, but hadn't seen those ones, and I like the fact that they come in custom lengths. Do you happen to know the lumens per foot?
- Welcome to Hotel Festool. You can check out anytime you like, but you can't ever leave.
- The MFTC is on my bucket list. So is the tool-caddy-inside-a-systainer project. You're beating me to all the good stuff, dammit!
- Nice work all around! This thread is a never-ending inspiration.
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
I wish, i'm dozen's of years away. If anyone can share with me and escalated way to get there, I'm all ears.
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OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
I couldn't find my sheet so I requested they resend. I'll let you know.
Ain't that the truth. I've only had the stuff about 5 months but I can't remember how I did without it before.
Given the pile-o-projects I'm under you may just get your MFTC done before me. I got three stuck on the "ways to go" step. Get rockin!!- The MFTC is on my bucket list. So is the tool-caddy-inside-a-systainer project. You're beating me to all the good stuff, dammit!
fattogatto
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2008
- Messages
- 167
With your obvious talents and skills some sort of custom work should be viable. There are a lot of people with the money and desire to have the quality of work you provide. Look at what some people pay for custom wine cellars and kitchen cabinetry. Your organizational skills might be enough to provide personal consultation on projects.
Expand your horizons, grasshopper.
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
They got back to me - InspiredLed.com's Radiant Edge series in warm color (2900k) were tested at just short of 170 lm/foot. That's how they stated it so maybe they fluctuate in the high 160's? Dunno, I think they're as bright as I'd want them day or night where I have them mounted. They did indicate that they have an even brighter design that has 2 rows I think but don't remember the details.
csp
Well-known member
I've been considering doing away with a giant mirror spanning a double sink vanity myself. I had the idea of some sort of storage between two smaller mirrors so I'm anxious to see what you put together.
One of these days I need to come see your work in person!
One of these days I need to come see your work in person!
Modern Jess
Well-known member
That's just the info I need. Thanks!
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
Lighting is horrible at all angles and all times of day. Can't get light that does the wood color justice. Faucets in today and we have a usable bathroom (less shower glass). I'm not quite to reveal status but I was able to mock the mirriors so you could get an idea of the look.
So far we like it but tonight we've discussed changing the depth of the medicine cabinet from 7.5-inches to 10.5-inches so we can run bottom mount drawer slides (like we will everywhere else) instead of side mount (which is all that was available in the 6-inch length. I'm big on fit and finish. Little details like that will bug the **** out of me.
Absolutely, if you're in Denver, let me know!
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Modern Jess
Well-known member
That looks great! And actually, the tile on the floor looks really familiar. I think I might have the same exact tile, or something really close to it.
kbeefy
Well-known member
wow... I'm about 1/2 way through this (350 post-ish) and I have to take a break.
The French Cleats are awesome, I'm going to use some of those. Looking at your bench backsplash it appears to be a grid. Why didn't you go full width with the cleat wall?
What originally brought me in was the HDPE machining, awesome tool holders! I'm about ready to start organizing a new shop, and theres a CNC router table available locally (http://bend.craigslist.org/tls/4958094480.html)... Do you think this would be sufficient for plastic?
I would love a Milling machine (and a lathe!!), but I don't think the budget will swing it. Don't see anything under $5k nearby, but I'll be keeping an eye out.
The French Cleats are awesome, I'm going to use some of those. Looking at your bench backsplash it appears to be a grid. Why didn't you go full width with the cleat wall?
What originally brought me in was the HDPE machining, awesome tool holders! I'm about ready to start organizing a new shop, and theres a CNC router table available locally (http://bend.craigslist.org/tls/4958094480.html)... Do you think this would be sufficient for plastic?
I would love a Milling machine (and a lathe!!), but I don't think the budget will swing it. Don't see anything under $5k nearby, but I'll be keeping an eye out.
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
Typically it would make more sense to have the cleats run and span the bench but I had two problems. First, I wanted to cut the cleats against the grain and my sheets were 4-feet wide and the bench is 8-feet long. Realizing that there was no way to make that work I remembered I wanted to have an outlet on the bench wall anyway so I planned ahead.
All of the screws are spaced to allow for a dual gang box centered between. At some point I'll run the new wires from the other side of the house and when I do, I'll have two of them on the backsplash. By adding those boards, it turned out that the drops I had were now big enough to handle the cleats to fill between.
Router tables can do really well with some plastics that allow/like high feed rates and good chip ejection. Without rigidity in the vise/table/gantry setup you may not be able to cut as deep as I can on the mill but you can get the same place with little more time. A few guys on this thread have already made toolholders using their CNC router and they turned out just as nice as mine. Probably the biggest difference is tooling capacity. On my mill I have to run 2 inch ball mills. You could never do that on a router. You'd have to figure out how to program A three-dimensional tool path to accomplish the same thing.
Few thoughts on that machine:
In general I'm not a huge fan of stepper motor CNC setups that don't have encoders because of some bad experiences I had with a plasma table years ago. The machine would lose his mind and subsequently lose its place and I would lose material every so often. This becomes problematic when you don't have unlimited material or you're down to your last little bit. I don't see a reference so it's hard to tell if it has encoders you're not.
The post indicates that the machine was used for production activities and wood for a price that's about $800 less the new. He indicated that he used it for a couple of years in these activities. CNC machines, especially ones that are not rigid like an end mill, do wear over time. As components wear, they lose accuracy. it would be very difficult to determine how accurate the machine is without running some parts and attempting to check tolerances. To understand how the machine was new, you'd have to have something to compare to. The only real way to know if any machine is good is to see it under its own power and try to evaluate the quality firsthand.
Every so often parts need to be replaced. It's always important to consider whether or not you can get replacement parts for the machine you're buying if it's used. I probably wouldn't buy machine that I couldn't buy just about every part for unless I have the capabilities necessary to either fabricate, source, or build my own. The most likely parts that need to be replaced would be drive parts or electronics.
Software is another gotcha. Does the software come with the machine? How easy is it to use? If the person selling the machine indicates that they used software other than what came with the Machine, you should probably find out why. If additional software is necessary, make sure you look into it to determine how easy it is to use and how much it cost. Take that into account.
Hardware requirements can be a gotcha as well. If it uses a specific type of interface cable, do you have a machine that has that type of interface Port? If you don't, is an adapter readily available? You have to be able to run the machine with the computer and you have to make sure you can get a computer to run the machine. Same thing goes with operating system. If it requires windows and you only have a Mac, that's obviously problematic. You should figure out what you need to run it off of and make sure that you can before you buy.
Tooling is always something to consider. If you use machine is being sold with a lot of tooling, that's added value that can get you up and running a lot more quickly. If it's old with no chilling though you should probably figure out what it would cost to get set up with the basic tooling. Collets, chucks, vises, and specialty end mills can get expensive quickly. A used machine that seems expensive but has a bunch off tolling may end up a really good deal where as a really cheap machine with no tooling could end up being really expensive.
I totally get what you mean. I can't imagine not having both but at the same time, I'm not sure I'd buy either one of them again if I were starting over. Individually they give you some options when fabricating certain things. Together they make for an incredibly valuable set up where you can do almost anything with the correct set up and correct tooling. The real game changer is CNC. As soon as you have a mill or lathe that's CNC you can build anything as long as you can think of it. Unfortunately the investment to get there is much more than most people are willing to pay. If you get to CNC though, skies the limit.
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csp
Well-known member
Denver? I thought you were in Parker. Not sure if you remember me. I can't remember if I bought Jeep parts from you or sold them to ya, but I came over to your place in Aurora when you had the yellow CJ5 and I sent you the template for 14bolt caliper mounts.
I really like that center divider above the counter top. It's similar to what I had pictured for my master bath, except you actually did it!
kbeefy
Well-known member
Wow.... Thanks for the response!
You pretty much told me what I allready thought, I should be looking for better equipment.
Unfortunately it's a hobby, I'll see what happens.
You pretty much told me what I allready thought, I should be looking for better equipment.
Unfortunately it's a hobby, I'll see what happens.
kbeefy
Well-known member
and that was a huge and in depth response, thanks!!
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
Denver? I thought you were in Parker. Not sure if you remember me. I can't remember if I bought Jeep parts from you or sold them to ya, but I came over to your place in Aurora when you had the yellow CJ5 and I sent you the template for 14bolt caliper mounts.
I really like that center divider above the counter top. It's similar to what I had pictured for my master bath, except you actually did it!
You're in the Colorado Springs right? You're right, I'm in Parker. When in refer to my hood in relationship to the Srings. I remember the caliper brackets but I cannot for the life of me remember which way it was when we met that first time. I was actually talking to my wife about it last night trying to recall. Must have been axle related. Maybe a bare front 1979 Dana 60 housing?
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
Actually I was hoping to do was give you information so that you could go look at it and determine if it was good and do a little research prior to the purchase to help you decide. Smaller units can be fantastic for smaller projects and not all since equipment has to be expensive. Most of what I do nowadays could be done on a much smaller machine and there are times where the footprint of a large knee mill is a pain. My reservation about it being used for production activities is probably a reasonable reservation but that doesn't mean it's garbage.
csp
Well-known member
I'm in Parker too. You must be on an app that doesn't allow you to see locations.
I can't remember what parts swapping we were doing either, but I'm sure it wasn't the Dana 60. The only Ford version I've owned is under my Ford pickup.
I can't remember what parts swapping we were doing either, but I'm sure it wasn't the Dana 60. The only Ford version I've owned is under my Ford pickup.
sakurama
Well-known member
Holy Cow! You're on fire!
Same thing happens to me. I have limited time to work on a project and limited space to lay it out so I'm a hot mess. After I get something done I swear I won't work like that again and that I'll get more organized so then I start a project to organize the shop. About then some parts arrive for a motorcycle and...
I need your focus and speed. And CNC.
That Systainers tote is deluxe! I've been meaning to make one for electrical stuff and that template is perfect. Helpful as always!
Gregor
Same thing happens to me. I have limited time to work on a project and limited space to lay it out so I'm a hot mess. After I get something done I swear I won't work like that again and that I'll get more organized so then I start a project to organize the shop. About then some parts arrive for a motorcycle and...
I need your focus and speed. And CNC.
That Systainers tote is deluxe! I've been meaning to make one for electrical stuff and that template is perfect. Helpful as always!
Gregor
On Edge
Well-known member
Wow the bathroom has turned out awesome. I have learned a lot from this thread. I'm thinking of drinking the green koolaid and I'm curious if you have any regrets with buying the MIDI vacuum? I know that you get a little break with the vacuum price when you buy it with a tool and debating to go with the MIDI or stepping up to the next size up of vacuum. Also do you have a thread similar to this over on FOG? Thanks for sharing!
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
I really like the MIDI vacuum - it's portability, it's small size, and The vacuum it creates is more than adequate for the festools I have. There only two things I dislike about it. First I dislike that it doesn't have a cord wrap on the back. if it had a place to wrap the cord like the larger models I'd be much happier. I also dislike it has such a small bag however that's a compromise for its portability. All in all it's a good little dust collector.
A little unsolicited feedback about using festool dust collection in general - I found myself switching between tools frequently during machining operations which results in frequent plugging and unplugging for both the power cord and vacuum hose which does take time. It's bad enough jumping between a jigsaw and the track saw. It's horrible if one of them is a Kapex.
Dick in Wisconsin
Well-known member
I don't want to hi-jack this thread ... but why don't ALL appliances have a cord wrap feature of some kind? Often the manufacturer makes a really nice appliance, but they leave NO place to wrap the cord. I think its JUST stupid. Cord flopping all over.
I've made my own cord wraps using nylon boat cleats for my 10 year old Craftsman battery charger (that has three cords!) and my eight year old small Craftsman shop vac.
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
It's dumb really, I completely agree. The storage of cords is an irritating part of power tools in general and the cord itself typically takes up the most space - sometimes more than the tool (like cordless battery chargers). Festool has done a really nice job dealing with eliminating the cord from the equation...actually this is a great segway to my next post if I can find the pictures. Let me look..
OP
lilscorpion
Well-known member
Ok, so Festool hand tools have detachable cords which allows for easier storage by allowing the tool to be stores separately.
The cord and tool utilize what's called a Plug-It connector which is essentially a small twist lock plug assembly.
The idea is the cord and the vacuum hose stay connected to the vacuum and all you need to do to switch tools is switch the tool itself preventing the user from messing with plugging and unplugging the cord from the/an outlet.
Once you get familiar with the setup (and your hooked on dust connection) it becomes fairly apparent (and painful) when you switch to a non-Festool tool that requires you go back to the conventional plugging in and unplugging nonsense. Festool must have realized the same pain at some point and they started selling a Plug-It adapter to convert them. As luck would have it, the connector isn't available in North America so a little magic was necessary to get my hands on one.
The conversion comes with a pigtail and the plug (male end of the deal). The hist tool I wanted to convert is the drill I commonly use for pocket hole drilling. Instead of wiring in the pigtail and letting it dangle I decided to attempt to direct mount the end using an adapter. I started with a piece of 3-inch delrin (all I had) and turned it down to an inch and grooved it to match both the drill and plug it sides.
After thru-drilling the delrin to 3/8-inch and parting it off, I test fit it a couple of times in the case to get it to fit.
Once I was pleased I wired the Plug-It end.
Soldered the wires to the wires inside the drill so it would have a sturdy connection
Covered the connections with heat shrink
Routed the wire back into the slot and reassembled the gun.
Functionally the gun operates the same as it did before but now the storage of it is much less complicated and it's easier to connect when I need it.
The only downside I can see to the modification is the Plug-It conversion costs nearly as much as the drill.
The cord and tool utilize what's called a Plug-It connector which is essentially a small twist lock plug assembly.
The idea is the cord and the vacuum hose stay connected to the vacuum and all you need to do to switch tools is switch the tool itself preventing the user from messing with plugging and unplugging the cord from the/an outlet.
Once you get familiar with the setup (and your hooked on dust connection) it becomes fairly apparent (and painful) when you switch to a non-Festool tool that requires you go back to the conventional plugging in and unplugging nonsense. Festool must have realized the same pain at some point and they started selling a Plug-It adapter to convert them. As luck would have it, the connector isn't available in North America so a little magic was necessary to get my hands on one.
The conversion comes with a pigtail and the plug (male end of the deal). The hist tool I wanted to convert is the drill I commonly use for pocket hole drilling. Instead of wiring in the pigtail and letting it dangle I decided to attempt to direct mount the end using an adapter. I started with a piece of 3-inch delrin (all I had) and turned it down to an inch and grooved it to match both the drill and plug it sides.
After thru-drilling the delrin to 3/8-inch and parting it off, I test fit it a couple of times in the case to get it to fit.
Once I was pleased I wired the Plug-It end.
Soldered the wires to the wires inside the drill so it would have a sturdy connection
Covered the connections with heat shrink
Routed the wire back into the slot and reassembled the gun.
Functionally the gun operates the same as it did before but now the storage of it is much less complicated and it's easier to connect when I need it.
The only downside I can see to the modification is the Plug-It conversion costs nearly as much as the drill.