The VISES of Garage Journal

[topop101]

Topop - It's hard to tell, but that Columbian looks like the rare (yes, I used THE WORD) model #804. It looks like it was painted black. If that is the original color, I haven't seen that before (usually they're red). If it is an 804, I think it's only the 5th or 6th one found on GJ (I have access to 2). I have a sentimental attachment to this model. GREAT FIND !

Here are a few posts about the 804.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2414524#post2414524
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4777749#post4777749
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4786542#post4786542
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4840816#post4840816

Thanks for the tip one the paint. One is for sure red the other may or may not have been repainted. Cant really say at this point. Here's some pic's of the pair. The handle in the black one is going to be a trick to straighten... an "S" with a curve

Now Jake if you have or could make a couple of those decals that would be a real deal.

 

[jakemac]

Thanks for the tip one the paint. One is for sure red the other may or may not have been repainted. Cant really say at this point. Here's some pic's of the pair. The handle in the black one is going to be a trick to straighten... an "S" with a curve

Now Jake if you have or could make a couple of those decals that would be a real deal.

YOU FOUND TWO ???!!!
I didn't see that in your original post. That means that these could be #6 and #7 found.


I know that red was an original color, but it's also possible that black was also offered. IDK.

Some of the vises had COLUMBIAN, PATS PEND, and 804 lightly stamped on the left side. On others it can't be found if it was ever there.

I have an image of a 1949 catalog with them listed, but another member has a different ad that he thought was from the 30's, so we're still unsure of the dates that these were made.

I don't have any white decal paper on hand at the moment. PM me your email address and I can send you a GIF copy of the higher resolution decal image. You may need to resize it to fit your vises. Some of the ones found had the decal on the left side of the vise, others had the decal on the front. The one on the side seems to have been slightly larger.

 

[zkling]

I think I have one too Jake.

 

[topop101]

YOU FOUND TWO ???!!!
I didn't see that in your original post. That means that these could be #6 and #7 found.


I know that red was an original color, but it's also possible that black was also offered. IDK.

Some of the vises had COLUMBIAN, PATS PEND, and 804 lightly stamped on the left side. On others it can't be found if it was ever there.

I have an image of a 1949 catalog with them listed, but another member has a different ad that he thought was from the 30's, so we're still unsure of the dates that these were made.

I don't have any white decal paper on hand at the moment. PM me your email address and I can send you a GIF copy of the higher resolution decal image. You may need to resize it to fit your vises. Some of the ones found had the decal on the left side of the vise, others had the decal on the front. The one on the side seems to have been slightly larger.

It wasn't in the original post, I had the red one a while. Both say Columbian PATS PEND haven't looked close enough to see 804. Like you I'm unsure of the date these were made or for how long. I wonder if it was a war thing ... using less metal

 

[jrobb316]

JR: Even if Outlaw's swivel base worked i'd be a little skeptical only having a 190 pound vise screwed down with only two bolts. especially since that 4C is so tall. how do you like it compared to your Reed 2C. it's pretty awesome isn't it? good luck on your search for a swivel base and nice that you have the Reed 206 as another option. i'll get the measurements off my 4C's swivel base if you still need them because i should be heading to my shop tomorrow or for sure Monday.

nice find

Its definitely large enough. I think for the 99%, the 2C is probably perfect, the 4C is just massive. It is tall, but not humpback parker tall. Seems like the 3C might be the hardest one to find. Someone has a 1C on CL but they want $250 for it, too much. I guess i'm trying to get this whole series now. A 206 base opens up a lot of options, and eventually I should fall into one or find someone here that finds a broken vise.

 

[KMScott]

jrobb
I have a 206 that is missing the threaded collar and the nut. Ask me in a year or two if you are still looking for one. I sold the swivel lock and clamp arm to a GJ member for pennies but did make a drawing of it. Let me know if you need dimensions for anything related to the swivel base but I am not ready to give up the base.
If anyone has a split nut that they can give up for a week then I would appreciate it. I have a 1C and did draw up the split nut for that but I need one for my 206 and can fabricate it. It would be easier if I had a example. This 206 is a beast.

 

[jrobb316]

What model are you looking for the split nut for? My 2C split nut is sitting on a bench now, and if you needed the 4C i can get it out. In a few years if you don't find your needed parts you'll just send the rest down the road?

 

[wrenchguy]

If anyone has a split nut that they can give up for a week then I would appreciate it. I have a 1C and did draw up the split nut for that but I need one for my 206 and can fabricate it. It would be easier if I had a example. This 206 is a beast.

i need a split nut 4 a 106, u gonna make a few?

 

[KMScott]

Back to my issue today, I want to share my repair on this problem because I have seen this issue on other Wiltons. I am wrapping up this 600S that came to me in pretty rough condition. I had to replace the swivel base, (Thanks Nick) build a swivel locking plate from scratch because the original was really light duty for this vise. I welded and re machined the spindle groove for the horseshoe washer because it was really wore, it had a horseshoe washer torched out of thin plate installed that just destroyed the groove.

It took two weeks of heating and oil to unfreeze the rusted Dynamic Jaw support. The owner in Wyoming had left this vise outside in harsh environments for years in Casper.

So I thought I was gonna finish up today since I just needed to make a new handle until I slid the Dynamic jaw support in. Damn, had a major miss alignment of the jaws. One side was dipped .05 and the side to side was off by a .100 thousands. Started checking numbers and figured out that the key-way groove in the Dynamic Jaw Support was off by only 1 degree. Over 6-1/2 inches from center of barrel to the top of the jaws that the 1 degree was too much of a mismatch for me. I took off the key (stamped 04-78) and cut a .027 step on one side and added material to the other side, guys I did not use JB puddy but weld, it was faster and more solid then the puddy. Machined it back a little tighter then the original width and it lined up pretty good. Wilton does not give you much clearance in the Socket Head clearance holes but I got lucky and it fit pretty good. Still a little mis-match from the two jaw support ledges (.010) but I'll let that one slide.

 

[KMScott]

i need a split nut 4 a 106, u gonna make a few?

Yea, I could make more then one. Especially if I can write the thread cutting program for my mill. Been a while since I cut threads on a CNC. How did the Parker jaws work for you Wrenchguy.

 

[KMScott]

What model are you looking for the split nut for? My 2C split nut is sitting on a bench now, and if you needed the 4C i can get it out. In a few years if you don't find your needed parts you'll just send the rest down the road?

I need your 4C split nut for dimensions. I would owe ya a favor. That would get my 206R back in working order, I can make a nut. No hurry at my end, I have plenty to do. I just seen the brazing on the dynamic support. Do not need the swivel base any more and no plans on making a split nut unless Wrenchguy really twists my arm. I'll PM you my thoughts on the swivel base.

 

[dkroth]

...
Dynamic Jaw Support was off by only 1 degree.
...
I'll let that one slide.

Mad skills.

"I'll let that one slide." I see what you did there!

 

[AmericanMechanic]

Picked up a Columbian 505 on a trip last week (thanks Mike).

Outside had been nicely cleaned but as the insides attested (grease/grit), it had been well used over its life.

Two questions for the experts:

1. Any reason I shouldn't use JB Weld to smooth out hammer marks on the two castings? I'm going to use the vise in my shop but no reason it has to look abused. I've already ground down most of the peaks of the high spots and need to fill the low spots.

2. Has anyone had luck removing the vise jaw pins once they are basically rust-welded into the casting? I dont think they are going to budge. Will probably leabe them as-is. The jaws are well worn but generally usable. Someday I may try to mill the jaw faces flat (vertical) and tap horizontally to layer on new pads.

 

[mike_paxton]

Picked up a Columbian 505 on a trip last week (thanks Mike).

Outside had been nicely cleaned but as the insides attested (grease/grit), it had been well used over its life.

Two questions for the experts:

1. Any reason I shouldn't use JB Weld to smooth out hammer marks on the two castings? I'm going to use the vise in my shop but no reason it has to look abused. I've already ground down most of the peaks of the high spots and need to fill the low spots.

2. Has anyone had luck removing the vise jaw pins once they are basically rust-welded into the casting? I dont think they are going to budge. Will probably leabe them as-is. The jaws are well worn but generally usable. Someday I may try to mill the jaw faces flat (vertical) and tap horizontally to layer on new pads.

American Mechanic:

It's always good when a vise "finds" the right owner!!!

BTW, had some pics of the Columbian 505 vise, so attached them so that others following along could see it.

History is that this vise was used by one of our local trades guy and attached to his truck as his daily user for many years before recently passing away.

Mike

 

[jrobb316]

Picked up a Columbian 505 on a trip last week (thanks Mike).

Outside had been nicely cleaned but as the insides attested (grease/grit), it had been well used over its life.

Two questions for the experts:

1. Any reason I shouldn't use JB Weld to smooth out hammer marks on the two castings? I'm going to use the vise in my shop but no reason it has to look abused. I've already ground down most of the peaks of the high spots and need to fill the low spots.

2. Has anyone had luck removing the vise jaw pins once they are basically rust-welded into the casting? I dont think they are going to budge. Will probably leabe them as-is. The jaws are well worn but generally usable. Someday I may try to mill the jaw faces flat (vertical) and tap horizontally to layer on new pads.

Soak the pins in a good penetrant for a while (or a day or two) and hit the surrounding area with a MAPP gas torch. With a little work any rusted stuff will come apart. The heat will expand the hole slightly and creep the oil in further. It will smoke and start on fire but it should work for you. Hit the pin while the jaw is hot.

I don't think JB weld to clean it up is a bad thing.

 

[2oolhound]

I took off the key (stamped 04-78) and cut a .027 step on one side and added material to the other side, guys I did not use JB puddy but weld, it was faster and more solid then the puddy. Machined it back a little tighter then the original width and it lined up pretty good.

Nice repair! That's one long step key!

 

[balane]

Back to my issue today, I want to share my repair on this problem because I have seen this issue on other Wiltons. I am wrapping up this 600S that came to me in pretty rough condition. I had to replace the swivel base, (Thanks Nick) build a swivel locking plate from scratch because the original was really light duty for this vise. I welded and re machined the spindle groove for the horseshoe washer because it was really wore, it had a horseshoe washer torched out of thin plate installed that just destroyed the groove.

It took two weeks of heating and oil to unfreeze the rusted Dynamic Jaw support. The owner in Wyoming had left this vise outside in harsh environments for years in Casper.

So I thought I was gonna finish up today since I just needed to make a new handle until I slid the Dynamic jaw support in. Damn, had a major miss alignment of the jaws. One side was dipped .05 and the side to side was off by a .100 thousands. Started checking numbers and figured out that the key-way groove in the Dynamic Jaw Support was off by only 1 degree. Over 6-1/2 inches from center of barrel to the top of the jaws that the 1 degree was too much of a mismatch for me. I took off the key (stamped 04-78) and cut a .027 step on one side and added material to the other side, guys I did not use JB puddy but weld, it was faster and more solid then the puddy. Machined it back a little tighter then the original width and it lined up pretty good. Wilton does not give you much clearance in the Socket Head clearance holes but I got lucky and it fit pretty good. Still a little mis-match from the two jaw support ledges (.010) but I'll let that one slide.

Wow Kevin, that is thinking outside the box I never would have thought of. Was there a reason you couldn't have widened the groove some and then weld filled & milled the remaining gap? Excellent work as always.

 

[KMScott]

Wow Kevin, that is thinking outside the box I never would have thought of. Was there a reason you couldn't have widened the groove some and then weld filled & milled the remaining gap? Excellent work as always.

Thanks 2oolhound, Balane, once I had my numbers the fix took a hour and worst case would have been to make a new key.

 

[KMScott]

2. Has anyone had luck removing the vise jaw pins once they are basically rust-welded into the casting? I dont think they are going to budge. Will probably leabe them as-is. The jaws are well worn but generally usable. Someday I may try to mill the jaw faces flat (vertical) and tap horizontally to layer on new pads.

This is how I pulled my Columbian pins. First I tap the pins from the bottom up, then set up a clamp set up to hold my slide hammer solid so I can weld the slide hammer shaft. I had to pull jaws in 4 Columbians that were very well used. This method worked well for me. Good luck.

 

[AmericanMechanic]

Thanks KMScott. I'll grind down a bit more but right now the pins are not visible at all on top of the casting. I believe decades of being exposed to the northern elements took their toll. Surprised the whole vise isn't rustier, actually.

If you get the pins to move from the bottom, why weld on the slide hammer on rather than just continuing to tap up?

Mike - thanks for adding the pictures!

 

[oldldh]

Reverend Scott---

Are you setting up a Columbian production/restoration line???

You've got a good start...

A slide hammer, huh...

Clever...

 

[balane]

Thanks 2oolhound, Balane, once I had my numbers the fix took a hour and worst case would have been to make a new key.

OK, believe me you're the last person ever whose decisions I'd question. I was just curious if widening the groove a bit and filling/shimming the gap is a viable solution or if there are problems with that route.

 

[KMScott]

Reverend Scott---

Are you setting up a Columbian production/restoration line???

You've got a good start...

A slide hammer, huh...

Clever...

Oldie, finished them up a couple years ago. Made new jaws for them all and will not do that again. The Tee Jaws are hard to fit.

OK, believe me you're the last person ever whose decisions I'd question. I was just curious if widening the groove a bit and filling/shimming the gap is a viable solution or if there are problems with that route.

That way would work if you can not weld. It sure is risky since the Dynamic jaw would have to be set up upside down and the 600 is a big guy, It would never fit in my Kurt up side down. I would have to make a V-block of some kind. Again it is way simpler to adjust the key instead of the key-way. The Wilton keys have .004-,006 clearance in them. Not much. I left .002 and will let the key-way wear in. Busy night...

 

[charger0926]

so im looking for a new vise. i would like to find a restored wilton but am not opposed to buying new. i would like a 5-6 inch jaw and it will be used for multiple projects. i am not needing a machinists version so i am looking at the new tradesman versions.

i want a good quality us built and my budget is under 550-600 $$ range.

i would also like to be able to use the anvil for the occasional hammering on or is this just not acceptable on any of the wiltons.

i have been looking at the new 1755 or 1765 models. a swivel base is also needed.

if i go used does anyone sell restored ones around or are they like dinosaurs?

any info/help would be appreciated

sorry if i posted this in the wrong place

thanks

 

[drivesitfar]

Kevin: nice job on the Wilton. i really like that method of attaching the removable jaws.

a member Grigg restored his Reed 4C a year or two ago and he made a new split nut in the process and i think he documented it in his thread. here's the link and if he didn't say all you need maybe you can PM him.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=232946

 

[oldldh]

I would like a 5-6 inch jaw and it will be used for multiple projects.

I want a good quality US built, and my budget is under 550-600 $$ range.

I would also like to be able to use the anvil for the occasional hammering on or is this just not acceptable on any of them...

I have been looking at the new 1755 or 1765 models.

If I go used does anyone sell restored ones around or are they like dinosaurs?

Thanks

www.benchvisejaws.com

"Reverend" Kevin Scott does some magnificent restorations...

See attached photo...

I would send him a Private Message/Email, and see what he's got in the pipeline...

If you pummel a good old USA Vise , by utilizing the bare patch on the back as an anvil, you will mess up a good vise...

And...

Ve vil haf you shot...shot, do you hear???

Five to six hundred dollars puts you in new 1765 or slightly used/almost new 1780 territory...

It will also buy you a restored 5 or 6 inch really good U.S. made machinist's vise...

I would prefer the latter, as opposed to a new Tradesman...

Just from the strength aspect...

But, it's your money...call Kevin, he can fix you up...There are several other posters who would provide iron that would float your boat...

 

[charger0926]

www.benchvisejaws.com

"Reverend" Kevin Scott does some magnificent restorations...

See attached photo...

I would send him a Private Message/Email, and see what he's got in the pipeline...

If you pummel a good old USA Vise , by utilizing the bare patch on the back as an anvil, you will mess up a good vise...

And...

Ve vil haf you shot...shot, do you hear???

Five to six hundred dollars puts you in new 1765 or slightly used/almost new 1780 territory...

It will also buy you a restored 5 or 6 inch really good U.S. made machinist's vise...

I would prefer the latter, as opposed to a new Tradesman...

Just from the strength aspect...

But, it's your money...call Kevin, he can fix you up...There are several other posters who would provide iron that would float your boat...

thanks for the info. being the used ones are difficult to find in good shape and taking the chance that there is something wrong with it even though they look good, is there anything wrong with the new ones as far as strength. what is the difference between the new and old?

keep in mind i wont be abusing it or using it on a daily basis

 

[oldldh]

A Wilton 1765 can be had for less than $ 500.00...

It will probably do everything you need a vise to do...

Don't beat on it...it won't like it...

If pounding is necessary, get an anvil...

Your price range opens up a whole new universe of visedom...

Take your time, look around, and you'll be surprised what you find...

(It seems that I remember a 1780 going for $ 40.00 not that long ago...)

Machinists vises are better tools than Tradesman vises---more solid/heavier/stronger/closer tolerances...etc...

Also they cost more---you do get what you pay for---remember that...

Good luck in your search...

(The Wilton cutaway will show you why you shouldn't use a vise, as an anvil...)

The other photo shows the difference between a 1755 Tradesman and a 500 Machinists...

 

[Spinaker01]

Well I'm at about the halfway point of my Chas Parker re-rehabilitation (notice I didn't say restoration-the vice was too far gone for that) It seems to be a relatively rare model No. 259 which had to earn its living honestly over its 109 year lifespan. Just need to clean up the machined surfaces and redo the handle (un-saveable) and its good for the next century or so.

 

[GETRIDAONE]

Looks like the "SEMI-STEEL". SOLID BAR didn't help that Parker much, or it saved the slide from being completely destroyed

 

[Fretters]

so im looking for a new vise. i would like to find a restored wilton but am not opposed to buying new. i would like a 5-6 inch jaw and it will be used for multiple projects. i am not needing a machinists version so i am looking at the new tradesman versions.

i want a good quality us built and my budget is under 550-600 $$ range.

i would also like to be able to use the anvil for the occasional hammering on or is this just not acceptable on any of the wiltons.

i have been looking at the new 1755 or 1765 models. a swivel base is also needed.

if i go used does anyone sell restored ones around or are they like dinosaurs?

any info/help would be appreciated

sorry if i posted this in the wrong place

thanks

What's the type of use your vice is going to be seeing? Any half decent vice is generally fine if treat with respect, but if it's something which is going to be getting a bit of stick, the Wilton's aren't the best of design for heavy use, IMHO. Much better to have something with solid jaw castings and a square/rectangular slide over a keyed round slide.

With regards the little anvil portion on some vices, again, it depends what you intend to use it for. Fine for general tapping, centre punching etc., but you don't want to be giving them some welly. Far better to have a chunk of steel plate mounted to the bench for things like that. A steel plate is easily replaced. A beaten vice anvil looks a dog after time, and you're stuck with it.

 

[Fretters]

Well I'm at about the halfway point of my Chas Parker re-rehabilitation (notice I didn't say restoration-the vice was too far gone for that)

Restoration is the perfect term. It doesn't mean making something look like it left the factory, merely reinstating something to good working order. I'd say yours classifies as a restoration.

 

[va.grouseman]

Charger, What ever you decide to go with, do not use the anvil on the vise as an anvil.--- I absolutely agree with Old on this.---You can get you a big chunk of flat steel or a chunk of railroad rail to hammer on and have it on your bench or stand close by.---I will allow you to straighten a piece of copper rod or wire on the vise.---But that's all.---And if you were to use the slide to the back of the vise as an anvil as some idiots do, You'll be arrested.---Take your time and shop.---$500.00 or $600.00 will buy you a nice 6 inch Reed, Morgan, Parker Etc., if you will be patient.---And the older iron, still in good shape, is the better choice like Old said.---They were made in a different era with a different mindset toward quality than the ones today.---Good luck.

 

[t4runner]

I picked this Millers Falls hand vise up at a sale for $3

 

[Outlawmws]

thanks for the info. being the used ones are difficult to find in good shape and taking the chance that there is something wrong with it even though they look good, is there anything wrong with the new ones as far as strength. what is the difference between the new and old?

keep in mind i wont be abusing it or using it on a daily basis

You mentioned 5-6 inch jaw; - In width or opening? Width is is the normal measurement, and even 5" is a pretty big vise. Opening you can get with a 4" jaw easily

Any vise with an "anvil" on it was intended as a flat surface for tapping on or for soft metal forming or maybe light flattening of sheet metal start beating on it hard and damage is inevitable.

New or old Chinese/Asian is a walk away, with the exception of some from Japan IMO.

New US built is generally expensive. Not very many US companies still turning them out: Wilton, Yost, Reed... They are still well made.


If all you are looking for is a "second pair of hands" then the lesser shop/garage vises, with the U slide of formed steel cast into the dynamic jaw is probably good enough.

If you want something you can pass on to the next generation and really work hard, you want a Machinist vise with the cast one piece dynamic jaw/slide. Most of them posted in this thread are the latter. A few of the former come up now and then.

 

[Outlawmws]

I picked this Millers Falls hand vise up at a sale for $3

Still in the original box? You double ****!

 

[BlueBomber]

I found this diamond in the rough in a shed at an estate sale in Chelsea, Alabama. Unfortunately, I could not buy it, as I'm flying home next Friday.

If anyone in the area wants to go bargain for it, I'll PM the address.

 

[bagged89s10]

I found this diamond in the rough in a shed at an estate sale in Chelsea, Alabama. Unfortunately, I could not buy it, as I'm flying home next Friday.

If anyone in the area wants to go bargain for it, I'll PM the address.

Buy it and ship it to yourself.

 

[charger0926]

You mentioned 5-6 inch jaw; - In width or opening? Width is is the normal measurement, and even 5" is a pretty big vise. Opening you can get with a 4" jaw easily

Any vise with an "anvil" on it was intended as a flat surface for tapping on or for soft metal forming or maybe light flattening of sheet metal start beating on it hard and damage is inevitable.

New or old Chinese/Asian is a walk away, with the exception of some from Japan IMO.

New US built is generally expensive. Not very many US companies still turning them out: Wilton, Yost, Reed... They are still well made.


If all you are looking for is a "second pair of hands" then the lesser shop/garage vises, with the U slide of formed steel cast into the dynamic jaw is probably good enough.

If you want something you can pass on to the next generation and really work hard, you want a Machinist vise with the cast one piece dynamic jaw/slide. Most of them posted in this thread are the latter. A few of the former come up now and then.

sorry i was referring to the width. i want a really good vise that i can "pass on to the grandkids"

my question on the newer wiltons like the 500s or the 450s are they still considered to be the last vise i will need assuming that i take care of it which i will? i can spend whatever i need to(within reason) to get a top of the line vise that i will have forever. are the new ones going to give me that or do i take forever to find a restored used one?

thanks again for all of the input fellas

 

[zkling]

Pertaining to my recent request on small Parker info. Here is a sad, No. 19 (2" jaw) I recently bought. Sad because, well... I'll have to upload the before pics too. It was heavily rusted, handle was seized; and the worst, somehow the shelf was broken off. On top of that the PO decided it would be a good idea to test out his sand blaster on the sides giving a pretty rough surface.

A quick clean up just to get a baseline of what it needs. Finally got the handle free moving. Two major issues that need to be addressed are the shelf and both swivel lock down bolts are pretty worn, new ones need to be made, as well as one nut. The wrench only fits one of the nuts, leading me to believe the other is a replacement.

If anyone has a No. 19 and can provide rough shelf dimensions I would greatly appreciate it. I am going to graft on a piece to replace the shelf. One of those rainy night projects.