18v AND 12v tools?

[mingus2112]

I've been thinking for some time about getting at least a drill/screwdriver in 12v. I'm pretty heavily invested in the Ryobi 18v system (I realize Ryobi isn't generally considered tops around here, but it is what it is) and also have some 4v Ryobi tools. I find a gap sometimes in some smaller tasks where I want a physically smaller drill or screwdriver than the 18v but the 4v is a joke for most things. Ryobi makes a 12v "system," but there aren't that many tools. . .

I've been lusting after the newer Milwaukee stuff lately and could never justify replacing my 18v tools. Considering their 12v system has a LOT of tools, it seems like a better choice at that point than picking up a 12v Ryobi drill.

So I guess my question is this: Who uses a mixture of 12v and 18v tools and why? I'm a bit compulsive and could see myself buying SEVERAL 12v tools, so buying Milwaukee would kind of be an "enabler" in this situation. (the Ryobi would limit me) Follow-up is who's using the Milwaukee M12 stuff? Do you like it?

-James

 

[Loscaldazar]

Just use the 12V Milwaukee for everything. My father now does that (after owning multiple 18V and 12V systems throughout his life). Recently built an entire deck with the 12V fuel drill. The 12V stuff from milwaukee is capable enough to do what previously was only reserved for higher voltage drills.

Now, if you use 18V drills for job everyday, then I might reconsider switching to just 12V tools.

 

[lowspeed_highdrag]

I'm a Milwaukee guy, and have a lot invested in the 18v line. I have heard good things about the 12v line, but if they are anything like Dewalt's 12V junk, I would steer clear.

 

[Mccool]

My father and father in law both have the 18v ryobi systems that I've used extensively. I've had no complaints at all with them, they have performed flawlessly.

With that said, I personally have the m12 system which I love. I've never noticed a lack of power at all, ive built decks, sheds, pergolas and plenty of other large jobs with it, without skipping a beat.

In other words, you can't go wrong with either.

 

[mingus2112]

My father and father in law both have the 18v ryobi systems that I've used extensively. I've had no complaints at all with them, they have performed flawlessly.

With that said, I personally have the m12 system which I love. I've never noticed a lack of power at all, ive built decks, sheds, pergolas and plenty of other large jobs with it, without skipping a beat.

In other words, you can't go wrong with either.

Exactly the experience I was looking for! 9 times out of 10 I'm looking for something physically smaller when i'm working "around the house." This is where the Milwaukee 12V could come in. The 18V is there to stay, though, as I get a ton of use out of the P261 Impact wrench, the hedge trimmer, string trimmer, etc. I realize that Milwaukee has what is probably a much better impact wrench, but i'm invested in the system. I could see myself with the regular 3/8 Drill, Impact driver and ratchet with the M12 system.

-James

 

[mrvm]

Can't go wrong with 12V power from Bosch/Ridgid/Milwaukee/Makita. Just make sure you are satisfied with the power tool selection from each brand. If you need more 12V power, brushless is the latest tech, i.e. M12 Fuel has a lot more power/torque than the regular brushed 12V and may have power rivaling lower level old tech 18V power tools. Brushed M12 power is fine for most diy projects as long as you stay away from Ryobi 4V and discounts may be available for brushed since a there is a lot of interest on the M12 Fuel.

FYI: IME the 18V Ryobi power tools respond positively to the 4.0 Ah Ryobi battery. The big 4.0 Ah battery usually just adds battery endurance but I have noticed smoother increased power on power tools and lawn equipment

 

[TomB19]

It's been a while since I've heard much negative about Ryobi. No Ryobi attacks from me.

Are you sure you need another system?

I like the Milwaukee M12 stuff. I use it about as much as my M18 stuff. Others have complained about the grips being too large. I have big hands so I've never understood that criticism but you might want to handle the tools to see the comfort.

I believe 90% of jobs can be done very well by either 12 or 18 volt systems. I suggest you make sure you really need another system before diversifying your resource.

 

[Rock Hound]

I very much like my m12 tools. Not only are they more than powerful enough for anything I do, but they are considerably lighter and smaller than 18 volt tools.

 

[Robinson1]

I'm a general contractor, right now I've got Bosch 18v, Dewalt 20v and Bosch 12v.

In those lines I have.

Bosch 18v:

Drill x 2
Hammer drill
impact driver x 2
1/2 impact wrench
recip saw
work light
10 + batteries
30 minute charger x 2
regular charger x 2

I have no complaints at all about my 18v Bosch tools. They just flat work.

Dewalt 20v:
drill
circular saw
recip saw
drywall screwgun
5 batteries
2 chargers

The drill feels like a toy compared to my Bosch drills, the recip saw has a lot of vibration and eats batteries like candy. I love the circular saw, you can frame a good sized deck on 2 batteries. Haven't used the screwgun on a job yet but it feels good and works well just pranking around with it.

Bosch 12v:
drill
impact driver
radio
4 batteries
30 minute charger

I use the radio almost every day. The drill and impact driver are a little underpowered but are great for assembly work. I use them in my shop building cabinets and furniture mostly.

 

[mingus2112]

I only have 2 reasons for looking at the M12 system: size/weight and my unfounded lust after the newer Milwaukee tools. Sometimes I find myself hanging blinds for my wife cursing how heavy the Ryobi 18v is. It's never a problem at chest or even shoulder level, but standing on a stepstool and holding the drill 2' over your head, you really feel the weight.

I also looked at the Rigid 12V system, but they don't have as many tools (should I decide to get more) and, well, they're not that beautiful Milwaukee red!

But really, no, i'm not sure I need another system. That's why I'm asking if anyone else is using 12V and 18V tools. I'm SUPER happy with my Ryobi system. I've never had a problem with them and love the huge tool selection. The Milwaukee 18V system has just as many tools (minus the lawn tools), but some tools (like the impact wrench) i'm just not willing to break the bank on.

-James

 

[mingus2112]

I'm a general contractor, right now I've got
Bosch 12v:
drill
impact driver
radio
3 batteries
30 minute charger

I use the radio almost every day. The drill and impact driver are a little underpowered but are great for assembly work. I use them in my shop building cabinets and furniture mostly.

Sounds like the slightly stepped up version of what I'd be doing. So you DO get use out of the 12v AND 18v? I don't know that i'd use the radio, but the 12V Milwaukee ratchet could be cool. . .

 

[kctyphoon]

i have some of everything.. at home i have alot of the Milwaukee m18 fuel stuff, and a bunch of the m18 lights, about 6 or 7 tools/lights that are m12 stuff, and 5 tools from the dewalt 12v max line.. at work i have a truck that has non-fuel m18 stuff, and the fuel utility impact. i have another truck that has got brushless 20v max Dewalt stuff.. i like my dewalt 12v max stuff better than the equivalent m12 (non fuel). its more comfortable, stronger(the drill) and the battery lasts longer. the dowside is not so many tools, but this may not be an issue for alot of people..

i dont own any (cause i didnt see the sense in it) of the m12 fuel tools.. ive played with them in the store, and the power is pretty amazing - more than the non-brushed, esp with the drill.. my suggestions is to just buy what you like.. you have 18v tools, so theres no need to try and replace those with m12 fuel tools.. brushed 12volts are cheaper and very capable to around the house stuff.. my m12/ 12v max impact drivers will sink 3" screws at the exact same speed - ive raced them, so i know for a fact.. just pick out what you like.

another plus of the 12v max dewalt - bigger belt clips, better lights on the 12v tools then the m12, and the impact driver has the one handed operation of the quick chuck. i just cant ignore how much better the 12v dewalt feels in my hand, but i still do like and use my m12 stuff too.. they have MUCH more tools, and absolutely kill dewalt in the 12v lighting department.

 

[speed bump]

I use my 12v Hitachi impact almost all the time for day to day screw driving. When I need to spin a big hole saw or drive lots of #10 deck screws or run a sawzall then out come the 18V tools.

 

[geojag]

I started with dewalt 18v because that is what I had at work. I was gifted some dewalt 12v max and I liked it. The drill, impact driver, and 3/8 impact performed well. The limitation is the variety of tools offered. Currently, at work, we use m12 and m28. Very little 18v of any platform. Still have a variety at home but will switch to m12 as needed.

 

[ahab]

I have two M18 drills, an M18 1/4 hex driver, and a M18 1/2 impact wrench.

My M12 stuff gets used more than all my M18 stuff combined.

I've had the M12 screwdriver for 2+ years. I rarely touch a manual screwdriver. If there is anything that needs assembled it is my go to tool. This thing is probably my most used tool. It will sink a #8 3" screw no problem. I have a Black and Decker 3.6 volt driver that I stopped using, the M12 is light enough it is no problem.

I got the M12 Fuel 1/2 chuck drill about a month ago, put it through pretty heavy use building racks & shelves. I put a few 3/4" holes with a spade bit through some 1/2" plywood, it would have been doable but slow, but I went to the M18 (I had ~70 holes to drill, ended up draining four M18 batteries)

The M12 drill has no problems with drilling 3/8ths holes for Kreg pocket screws.

The only M18 tool I use regularly anymore is the circular saw. I'm sure if I had the 12 volt version I'd be using that instead.

 

[Robinson1]

Sounds like the slightly stepped up version of what I'd be doing. So you DO get use out of the 12v AND 18v? I don't know that i'd use the radio, but the 12V Milwaukee ratchet could be cool. . .

I use the 18v Bosch tools almost every day. They live on my construction trailer that gets parked on every jobsite. I use the radio because I have it, it came free as a Lowes promotion with the other 12v tools. If the radio was 18v I'd use that, I'm not really particular about a radio. As long as it picks up the local country station I'm good.

The 12v tools yeah they get used. But to be honest not a lot and there are VERY few jobs I do where they actually work better than the 18v versions. Like I said above they really shine with assembly work. The 12v impact is great for small cabinet screws it doesn't shear them off like the 18v impacts do, and fits in smaller spaces easier. The 12v drill is just sort of there, it usually has a 1/8 bit in the chuck for pilot holes. Again I use it for cabinet work because it's smaller but if I need to drill a bunch of holes or a big hole (say bigger than 1/4) I go get an 18v.

The Dewalt tools are a whole different story and mostly stay on my truck for service type calls.

I don't care what anyone tells you the 12v tools are not on the same level power wise as the 18v versions. My 12v impact driver is pretty impressive considering it's size, it will still put in 3 inch screws with authority. But my old Bosch 18v single speed impact driver easily out works it and my 18v Bosch 3 speed brushless impact driver makes it cry for mercy.

 

[Robinson1]

****

 

[rice rocket]

The Bosch stuff is great, I actually switched out most my M12 for Bosch 12v, and I'll be picking up more brushless as they (slowly) revamp their lineup. It's not as powerful as the M12 (I'd say the brushless ones are just about as powerful as the M12 brushed), but they're about half the size and weight of the M12 (okay exaggerating a little).

If you want a truly small tool that punches above it's weight, get the Bosch. If you want a tool that's borderline 18v tool, then get the M12. The M12 has options with circ saws, bandsaws, etc. as well, but that concept to me is foreign anyways. For someone who has both 18v and 12v as well, I appreciate how well the Bosch tools perform for their size.

The weight difference is 1.6 lbs for the Bosch PS22, and 2.7 lbs for the Milwaukee 2602 (my 18v Metabo brushless is 3.25 lbs with the compact battery).

The size difference isn't as dramatic, but still significant. The balance is also not great on the M12 Fuel stuff (since that extra 1+ lbs sits high up on the head, you really need the 4.0Ah battery to balance it out but pushes the 2602 above 3 lbs...which I'd rather not lug around all day when I have a pile of 2.0Ah batteries).

The only things I prefer on the M12 are the grip, which is slightly narrower, and the single handed bit insertion on the bit holder, which I have no idea why Bosch didn't include. In the end though, I don't swap bits that often, so it's a small price to pay for a better balanced, smaller, much lighter tool.

Unfortunately, Bosch has been slow revamping their 12v lineup. The brushless impact, a 12v brushless screwgun, and a new little 3 lb jigsaw were released in Europe this year, but not here.

 

[wait4me]

I have a number of Ridgid 18v tools, but a couple of years ago when Milwaukee came out with the heated jackets I bought into the m12 line. Aside from the circular saw, the m12 stuff is now my go to.

I even just bought the m12 fuel rotary hammer drill, and am amazed at how quickly that thing drills holes in poured concrete. Goes through batteries fast though...

 

[finn]

I like my Bosch 12v stuff better than my Milwaukee 12v. The Bosch has a generally higher quality tactile feel to it, although the Milwaukee does function well.

Bosch overall package size seems more compact, as noted above, and that's why 12v tools are in my inventory.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I have been "jonesing" for a Milwaukee Fuel 12V 3/8" impact for over a year, but I just can't justify it. I have "access" to a full set of DeWalt 18v tools at my son's house less than 1/2 mile away.

I would also love to replace my wimpy old Black and Decker 7.2V 2 speed drill, but it still works.

 

[Voi]

I have a mix of Hitachi 18V and Bosch 12V. I haven't read all the replies closely and didn't see mentioned the availability of a dual voltage charger. I don't particularly like having two types of batteries to track down for taking to friend's places or our lake place but I think if I only had one charger to take it would make things more acceptable.

I know Milwaukee makes one, not sure about Ryobi.

Otherwise, I never understood the fuss about the weight savings of 12V. In fact I often found I preferred to have my 18V impact when up on ladders, etc. because I could set it down standing up and it would be easier to reach (my Bosch won't balance on the handle).

That was until I spent the better part of a weekend crawling around on a roof removing was may have been thousands of sheet metal screws from a metal roof. My little Bosch driver got the bulk of the abuse. I just bumped my Hitachi 18V along with my knee and grabbed it only when I came across a screw that needed a bit more kick. To be fair, my Bosch driver is not an impact but rather one of their weaker pocket drivers (PS20, I think). If it had been their 12V impact the Hitachi never would have come out of the truck.

At any rate, I'm keeping a very close eye on the industry while I wait for my Hitachi system batteries to die off. If I were to go mostly 12V I think Milwaukee Fuel would win for their power. And if I did need some 18V tools the dual voltage charger would be appreciated. But I also like Makita's X2 36V system and Bosch for the yet to be released in the US super compact impact as well as innovations like their hybrid impact driver/wrench.

Decisions, decisions...

 

[Alexbn921]

I just made the jump after 10 years of using Ryobi tools. I'm always on the look out for bare tools and you can pick them up for less the $5 at yard sales. I have acquired just about everyone ever made for the 18v platform and only spent maybe 150 on tools and 200 on batteries, 2 4amp and 4 2amp. I also use them for my kids power wheels. You can cut off old bases and use the motors to give them tons of power.
With all that, we are remodeling our kitchen and the size/weight was getting to me. I wanted, no needed something lighter and better. The Fuel m12 stuff is awesome and just as powerful as my Ryobi and much lighter. I love the impact and the circular saw the most. The old Hammer drill, Vacuum (big one that they don't make anymore) and the sawall are all that I keep. They are great for dirty muddy jobs where u don't want to ruin a good tool. but other than that I'm never using them again.

Fyi. There are deals to be have in different bundles and special offers. I took advantage of 3 differant ones. Grand total out the door with 7 batteries was $560.

<a href="http://s122.photobucket.com/user/alexbn921/media/Garage/Tools/20150717_201453_zpspyrwhivw.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o241/alexbn921/Garage/Tools/20150717_201453_zpspyrwhivw.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 20150717_201453_zpspyrwhivw.jpg"/></a>

 

[Voi]

I also use them for my kids power wheels. You can cut off old bases and use the motors to give them tons of power.

Sorry for the thread jack. I assume this still uses the stock gear box? My boys have a Dune Racer that's fine but I occasionally see Power Wheels on Craigslist that have bad motors and/or stripped out gear boxes. I can't imagine a way to basically make them direct drive with the drill and use the drill's forward and reverse function but your post has me thinking.

I'm stuck at home today. I might open up their Dune Racer and take a look.

 

[Negen]

This kit should get enough done around the house and for most lighter duty projects and probably even some mid-duty. I have some older 14.4v makita that is at least assembled in usa which is something somewhat positive.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005CQ1RGI/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Alexbn921]

Sorry for the thread jack. I assume this still uses the stock gear box? My boys have a Dune Racer that's fine but I occasionally see Power Wheels on Craigslist that have bad motors and/or stripped out gear boxes. I can't imagine a way to basically make them direct drive with the drill and use the drill's forward and reverse function but your post has me thinking.

I'm stuck at home today. I might open up their Dune Racer and take a look.

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3734055&postcount=52
Used stock gear box. 3.5 mph max. gear pitch is the same.
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3975596&postcount=85
stock motors. 10mph max.

 

[BikerDad]

So I guess my question is this: Who uses a mixture of 12v and 18v tools and why? I'm a bit compulsive and could see myself buying SEVERAL 12v tools, so buying Milwaukee would kind of be an "enabler" in this situation. (the Ryobi would limit me) Follow-up is who's using the Milwaukee M12 stuff? Do you like it?

-James

I use both 12v and 18v tools. My 12v are Bosch, 18v is DeWalt XR (brushless). I got the 18v because the 12v don't have enough oomph for some situations, and that includes the 12v impact. My Bosch tools are NOT brushless, so they don't compare directly with the M12 Fuel which is what the Milwaukee fanboys are ga ga over. I will reach for my 12v first, then the 18v compact, and last will I grab the big honkin' 18v Premium with the 4.0ah battery.

Oh, one other factor. If I need high bit speeds, I grab the 18v. They have significantly higher speeds than the 12v tools.

 

[928'er]

FYI, while they all have their own tools and their own proprietary battery systems, Milwaukee, Ridgid, Ryobi, AEG, Craftsman C3 and Craftsman Nextec are all made by TTI.

Sure, there are different quality levels, but its more a matter of which battery system you've bought into. Ryobi's advantage is that they seem to be committed to keeping their batteries forward and backward compatible. They appear to be leaving the 12v playing field to Milwaukee, however.

James

 

[mingus2112]

FYI, while they all have their own tools and their own proprietary battery systems, Milwaukee, Ridgid, Ryobi, AEG, Craftsman C3 and Craftsman Nextec are all made by TTI.

Sure, there are different quality levels, but its more a matter of which battery system you've bought into. Ryobi's advantage is that they seem to be committed to keeping their batteries forward and backward compatible. They appear to be leaving the 12v playing field to Milwaukee, however.

James

From what i've read, they're all OWNED by TTI, but not all MADE by TTI. Ryobi, Ridgid and Craftsman certainly are, but I think Milwaukee is made by someone else. Just what i've read - i've got nothing to back that up.

-James

 

[theoldwizard1]

Fyi. There are deals to be have in different bundles and special offers. I took advantage of 3 differant ones. Grand total out the door with 7 batteries was $560.

With all those batteries, that is a GOOD DEAL ! What store did you get them at ?

 

[928'er]

From what i've read, they're all OWNED by TTI, but not all MADE by TTI. Ryobi, Ridgid and Craftsman certainly are, but I think Milwaukee is made by someone else. Just what i've read - i've got nothing to back that up.

-James

http://www.ttigroup.com/en/our_brands/by_brand/milwaukee

 

[ngk22r]

I'm a Milwaukee guy, and have a lot invested in the 18v line. I have heard good things about the 12v line, but if they are anything like Dewalt's 12V junk, I would steer clear.

DeWalt's 12v junk? I have not seen a junk line in their catelog... Plus my 12v DeWalt tools work great.