How do I tap into service disconnect on pole?

[T_R]

I want to run power to the garage I am building. I have a power pole in the yard. There is a service disconnect box on the pole. From there it goes underground to a single wide mobile home. I want to run power from this box underground to the garage. I would rather not run power from the trailer to the garage, I'm planning to get rid of the trailer and start building a house in the next few years.

I had to change the breaker in this box a few years ago when it failed, but other than that, I've never touched it.

Wiring does not have to be to code, won't need to be inspected and I'm going to do this myself. Hiring an electrician is not an option. It just needs to be common sense safe.

All I need in the garage is two circuits. One for about 6 fluorescent light fixtures and another for 3-4 outlets. Maybe a small subpanel of some sort?

I can figure out the inside the garage stuff myself, but need some help on getting it from the box on the pole to a panel in the garage.

 

[Slowgsr]

Doesnt need to be to code?
Im sorry but i cant offer any advice other then whats to code.

Try some extension cords from your mobile home, try to plug them into GFCIs though ��

 

[T_R]

Doesnt need to be to code?
Im sorry but i cant offer any advice other then whats to code.

Try some extension cords from your mobile home, try to plug them into GFCIs though ��

Yeah, I'm going to avoid doing anything stupid like extension cords.

I want to do a good safe job, but it won't need to be inspected or anything. So it just needs to be safe and good enough, but not necessarily perfect.

Put it this way, I'm a mechanic so here is an analogy. We can fix your car perfectly with all new OEM parts and warranty the work. Or you can fix it yourself at home with used or aftermarket parts and still have the car be safe and good enough.

I want to do this job good enough, but still safe.

 

[pattenp]

Usually electrical work has to be to code even if you do the work yourself and even if it does not need to be inspected. I don't know if that's the case in the state of Maine but that's the way it is in Virginia.

Anyway add a. new 4 pole.breaker to have a connection for the feed to the barn. It's a quad breaker.

 

[jd_1138]

Usually electrical work has to be to code even if you do the work yourself and even if it does not need to be inspected. I don't know if that's the case in the state of Maine but that's the way it is in Virginia.

Yep, up to code is not just to give the electrician something to do; it's the code because that's the correct and right and SAFE way to install the electrical service. You don't want a loved one, yourself, or friend to get electrocuted.

 

[T_R]

Ok, enough with all the code talk. I shouldn't have mentioned it obviously.

My question is, how do I safely tap into this box and run it to my garage?

 

[Norcal]

Ok, enough with all the code talk. I shouldn't have mentioned it obviously.

My question is, how do I safely tap into this box and run it to my garage?

If your not willing to do it to code most here will not be as willing to help.

 

[Zeke]

Ok, enough with all the code talk. I shouldn't have mentioned it obviously.

My question is, how do I safely tap into this box and run it to my garage?

Did you not read post #4? A quad will allow both legs to both locations. You will need a panel at the garage, obviously, so you must isolate the neutral and drive a ground rod connected to the shop circuits equipment ground, the panel and home to the meter panel.

 

[T_R]

Did you not read post #4? A quad will allow both legs to both locations. You will need a panel at the garage, obviously, so you must isolate the neutral and drive a ground rod connected to the shop circuits equipment ground, the panel and home to the meter panel.

I just did, it was edited after my reply. Thanks.

Does it have to be a quad where they all trip at once or can I move the double over and buy a second of the same one I have? Maybe get one of those tie things to connect both?

 

[alfredeneuman]

There are no suitable quad breakers for this application.
I believe the maximum they're available in is 50 amps with 50 amps as the other half.

 

[pattenp]

There are no suitable quad breakers for this application.
I believe the maximum they're available in is 50 amps with 50 amps as the other half.

I believe you are correct. I thought about that after posting.

 

[T_R]

So should I get a second double 100 and move the existing one over a slot, so there is one for each side and tie the whole lot together? Or get 2 single 100s outside the existing breaker and tie those together?

 

[pattenp]

First thing, what brand panel is it.

 

[Wistrick]

if you move the breaker over it appears to me that both legs will be connected to the same phase which will not work....You need main breaker panel with feed thru lugs...

 

[T_R]

First thing, what brand panel is it.

It's too dark now, I will look tomorrow and post it. It must be something common, the local hardware store had a breaker in stock for it when it went bad a few years ago.

if you move the breaker over it appears to me that both legs will be connected to the same phase which will not work....You need main breaker panel with feed thru lugs...

Right, both ins of breaker would be on the same phase then one out to the trailer and one to the garage. Then I would get a second of the same breaker and do the same on the other phase. I'm thinking they probably should be tied together so if something were to happen, the whole thing would trip.

 

[Wistrick]

It's too dark now, I will look tomorrow and post it. It must be something common, the local hardware store had a breaker in stock for it when it went bad a few years ago.



Right, both ins of breaker would be on the same phase then one out to the trailer and one to the garage. Then I would get a second of the same breaker and do the same on the other phase. I'm thinking they probably should be tied together so if something were to happen, the whole thing would trip.

the point your missing is if both legs are on the same phase you no longer have 220v from that breaker....To be clearer if you where to take your existing breaker and move it over you would no longer have any 220v going to the traierl everything would be 110v

it takes both legs to get 220v

 

[T_R]

the point your missing is if both legs are on the same phase you no longer have 220v from that breaker....To be clearer if you where to take your existing breaker and move it over you would no longer have any 220v going to the traierl everything would be 110v

it takes both legs to get 220v

I understand that and understand how 3 phase works. I would take one wire off of the existing breaker and move that to the new breaker on the other side

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Folks, it looks like this is a 4 space panel. I see 2 free bus bar tabs and 2 retainer brackets to hold 2 single breakers.

OP can u take a clearer pic and post it here.

Im thinking u can move the current breaker over and add a second double pole breaker.

Brand and model of panel would be helpful...

 

[tshetter]

Get a pair of two port Polaris connectors and just keep that breaker in the panel there; making an inverted Y connection. One leg for the house and one leg for the shop.

Run direct bury cable at the appropriate depth to a suitable panel in the shop.

To me that would be the most simple solution.

Can't tell you if my solution is a good idea or not.


Your original post and some of the responses have somewhat of a contempt for doing something to code. The implemented and approved code IS the common sense way to do some thing. It's the tried and true, common sense, best practice. There is a reason for it. It not just some **** slapped together to force you to pay for an electrician to do the work.

My solution, I assume, does not meet code and is not the common sense way. But maybe this is just a bit better than the worst job you could do.

 

[Zeke]

Get a pair of two port Polaris connectors and just keep that breaker in the panel there; making an inverted Y connection. One leg for the house and one leg for the shop.

Run direct bury cable at the appropriate depth to a suitable panel in the shop.

To me that would be the most simple solution.

Can't tell you if my solution is a good idea or not.


Your original post and some of the responses have somewhat of a contempt for doing something to code. The implemented and approved code IS the common sense way to do some thing. It's the tried and true, common sense, best practice. There is a reason for it. It not just some **** slapped together to force you to pay for an electrician to do the work.

My solution, I assume, does not meet code and is not the common sense way. But maybe this is just a bit better than the worst job you could do.

I love it.

 

[tshetter]

I love it.

I'm not sure how to take that.


If it were mine, I would have the panel replaced with a 200amp service panel and do my own work from there trenching the line to the shop.

But I also have a good friend that has been a construction and maintenance electrician for 25yrs in the industrial and commercial sectors that I can get to help me.

Do it right the first time; then the second time you done have to ask yourself "who the **** butchered this...oh yea I did."

 

[Mustang51js]

Folks, it looks like this is a 4 space panel. I see 2 free bus bar tabs and 2 retainer brackets to hold 2 single breakers.

OP can u take a clearer pic and post it here.

Im thinking u can move the current breaker over and add a second double pole breaker.

Brand and model of panel would be helpful...

You need to zoom in and you can see the left two slots are one phase and the right two slots are another. I think the only options with what he has is a 4 pole breaker and have two 100 amp subs, or just add two single pole breakers with two small circuits. Ideally you would want a 100/60 amp tandem breaker but I've never seen one.

 

[Aceman]

All I need in the garage is two circuits. One for about 6 fluorescent light fixtures and another for 3-4 outlets. Maybe a small subpanel of some sort?

I would add a single pole 30 amp breaker to your metermain, that would give you a 30 amp 120v subpanel in your garage. Should be more than enough for what you want to do.

 

[Norcal]

You need to zoom in and you can see the left two slots are one phase and the right two slots are another. I think the only options with what he has is a 4 pole breaker and have two 100 amp subs, or just add two single pole breakers with two small circuits. Ideally you would want a 100/60 amp tandem breaker but I've never seen one.

It's a single phase panel, not 3 phase, the 2 stabs on the right are on the same leg, & the two stabs on the left are on the other leg, it looks like it could accept a 4-pole wide, 2-pole breaker, but that would not do the OP any good.

 

[DekeT]

IWiring does not have to be to code, won't need to be inspected and I'm going to do this myself. Hiring an electrician is not an option. It just needs to be common sense safe.

"hiring an electrician is not an option". This is what "stupid is as stupid does" means. Hire an electrician before you get someone killed. You clearly do not have the common sense for this task.

 

[T_R]

I would add a single pole 30 amp breaker to your metermain, that would give you a 30 amp 120v subpanel in your garage. Should be more than enough for what you want to do.

I thought about that. If I go that route does it matter which phase I connect to?

It's a single phase panel, not 3 phase, the 2 stabs on the right are on the same leg, & the two stabs on the left are on the other leg, it looks like it could accept a 4-pole wide, 2-pole breaker, but that would not do the OP any good.

It's a 3 phase for sure. Left and right and the neutral is off to the right side.

"hiring an electrician is not an option". This is what "stupid is as stupid does" means. Hire an electrician before you get someone killed. You clearly do not have the common sense for this task.

What is the point of posting comments like this? I'm capable of doing this job, I just needed some direction. I'm a mechanic and I point people in the right direction that want to fix their own cars.


More pics-

It is an anchor panel.

Thinking about it, I really don't need 230 in the garage for anything, 110 would be fine. So just adding a single pole breaker on one side might be the way to go.

 

[alfredeneuman]

I thought about that. If I go that route does it matter which phase I connect to?



It's a 3 phase for sure. Left and right and the neutral is off to the right side.

What is the point of posting comments like this? I'm capable of doing this job, I just needed some direction.

More pics-

Read in this photo where the label says "PHASE" 1Ø 3wire means 1 Phase 3wire. IT'S a SINGLE phase panel.

: :

 

[theoldwizard1]

Anyway add a. new 4 pole.breaker to have a connection for the feed to the barn. It's a quad breaker.

Excuse my ignorance, but, ... Why a 4 pole breaker and not 2 - 2 pole breakers ?

To me a 4 pole breakers implies if any one leg trip, it will trip the other 3.

 

[theoldwizard1]

If it were mine, I would have the panel replaced with a 200amp service panel .

Concur ! New 200A meter base with 2 disconnects/stabs built in.

I think Anchor Electric is out of business.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Excuse my ignorance, but, ... Why a 4 pole breaker and not 2 - 2 pole breakers ?

To me a 4 pole breakers implies if any one leg trip, it will trip the other 3.

A true 4 pole breaker does trip all 4. An example of this is a 200 Amp Square D main breaker. It's just (2) 100A breakers ganged together to form a single unit.

Quad circuit breakers are (2) 1/2 space 2 pole breakers independent of one another.

 

[Zeke]

It's a 3 phase for sure. Left and right and the neutral is off to the right side.


@Deke:
What is the point of posting comments like this? I'm capable of doing this job, I just needed some direction. I'm a mechanic and I point people in the right direction that want to fix their own cars.

While I don't find that particular poster's comments many times useful, he's right. If you even for a minute called that "3-phase" you are over your head. Somehow you will end up backfeeding your circuit and that will be dangerous enough "to kill someone."

 

[404]

The following is not advice, just my comment.

The pic is right from the panel.

If this was me doing this, I would add 2 single pole breakers. The green is the breaker I already have. The red is the 2 new breakers. Yellow is 2 new wires.

That does not mean you or anyone else should do this.

I think of the 2 yellow wires as "plus 120 volts" and "minus 120 volts" . Between either yellow wire and neutral (or ground) one measures 120 volts. Between the two yellow wires one measures 240 volts.

The service is single phase center tapped. The pole transformer steps down the 30KV or whatever to 240 volts, and the transformer also has a center tap on it.

Good luck, don't call if anything goes wrong.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Should we bring the popcorn, or just the marshmallows?

Get a current copy of Uglys and read it. Twice. If afterwards you're still insistent that your 1Ø box is 3Ø, then you need to step back and maybe, just maybe, think that you could be in way over your head. Before you kill yourself or someone else, or burn the place down.

No shame in that - not everyone can be good at everything all the time - nor because one is good (or excellent) in one field of endeavor mean they're an expert in all - but there are reasons people hire electricians to suss out electrical issues, just as they hire a mechanic to suss out auto issues, or a welder to build critical load framework.

 

[Zeke]

I want to run power to the garage I am building. I have a power pole in the yard. There is a service disconnect box on the pole. From there it goes underground to a single wide mobile home. I want to run power from this box underground to the garage. I would rather not run power from the trailer to the garage, I'm planning to get rid of the trailer and start building a house in the next few years.

I had to change the breaker in this box a few years ago when it failed, but other than that, I've never touched it.

Wiring does not have to be to code, won't need to be inspected and I'm going to do this myself. Hiring an electrician is not an option. It just needs to be common sense safe.

All I need in the garage is two circuits. One for about 6 fluorescent light fixtures and another for 3-4 outlets. Maybe a small subpanel of some sort?

I can figure out the inside the garage stuff myself, but need some help on getting it from the box on the pole to a panel in the garage.

I thought about that. If I go that route does it matter which phase I connect to?



Thinking about it, I really don't need 230 in the garage for anything, 110 would be fine. So just adding a single pole breaker on one side might be the way to go.

Let's go back to square one. A few light fixtures and "3-4" outlets would generally be fine if you don't have things like a large air compressor, heater or large power tools. I run my entire garage with compressor off a single 20 A circuit. Installing a breaker in the meter panel on one side or the other would do the job. Single feed to the garage, no sub panel and no need for a separate ground rod. Keep it simple. That is if you can find a single pole breaker that fits that panel. GS Anchor has been out of business for years.

However, I don't see how this provides for one main disconnect ahead of everything. And you may find that to be the case in some jurisdictions. But, if you don't care about the code, then you don't care about the code.

@404, I don't think he's ever going to find anything like that.

 

[BFBOB]

What I did to solve a similar problem was have my POCO (which was about to replace the meter anyway) add a 3-lug disconnect below the meter box. As the name implies, it's just a switch to turn off power with three lugs for each phase and the neutral. That way, the house and garage both run straight from the meter, and each one's panel is Service Equipment, not a sub panel. And, there's a third set of lugs available for when I build the BIG garage.

It wasn't free, though. It cost $400, but it was the only way to clean up the overhead rat's nest and get some of the cabling underground.

To answer an earlier question, no you can't add two single pole breakers and "tie them together" for 240V. This is specifically forbidden by code. Only factory-installed ties are permitted.

Not an electrician, but I've studied it on GJ!

 

[404]

Well, sure, but the code is a living document. Go back far enough in time and there is all sorts of stuff one can do to "code".

 

[Zeke]

Excuse my ignorance, but, ... Why a 4 pole breaker and not 2 - 2 pole breakers ?

To me a 4 pole breakers implies if any one leg trip, it will trip the other 3.

A quad can have tied breakers and individual breakers. I don't have any idea of a cross fitting breaker for that old panel. But it's already been said that a quad won't come with more than 50 amps on the tied part.

I think the journeymen electricians have left the room and for good reason.

 

[bczygan]

Get a pair of two port Polaris connectors and just keep that breaker in the panel there; making an inverted Y connection. One leg for the house and one leg for the shop.

Run direct bury cable at the appropriate depth to a suitable panel in the shop.

To me that would be the most simple solution.

Can't tell you if my solution is a good idea or not.


Your original post and some of the responses have somewhat of a contempt for doing something to code. The implemented and approved code IS the common sense way to do some thing. It's the tried and true, common sense, best practice. There is a reason for it. It not just some **** slapped together to force you to pay for an electrician to do the work.

My solution, I assume, does not meet code and is not the common sense way. But maybe this is just a bit better than the worst job you could do.

Now THAT's the standard I always try to achieve.......especially with electrical things!

Bill

 

[toplessHO]

whats the largest load in the trailer?
electric heat? range? cooktop?
dryer? a/c unit?
whats the highest KWH bill you ve had?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Buy a GE or Siemens or Square D meter/main combo panel and replace what you have, it will cost less than $150 for the panel.

GE unit will be very similar in configuration, but will accommodate two double pole breakers side by side and allow you to power the house and the garage. Other brands will be a somewhat different configuration, they will have the disconnect and auxiliary breakers beside the meter rather than below the meter. Some may have more than four full size breakers.

Charles