The VISES of Garage Journal

[dittle fart around]

Got my Parker 93-1/2 wire brushed and put a coat of GIBBS on it. I think it looks great.

View media item 54885
GIBBS says mega penetrant, ultra lubricant, corrosion inhibitor and water repellant. I saw a youtube video of some dude with a ratrod that said this the product to use. Stops the rust where it is, and polishes the surface.

View media item 54884
Here's the new junk

View media item 54886

 

[bagged89s10]

Got my Parker 93-1/2 wire brushed and put a coat of GIBBS on it. I think it looks great.



View media item 54885


GIBBS says mega penetrant, ultra lubricant, corrosion inhibitor and water repellant. I saw a youtube video of some dude with a ratrod that said this the product to use. Stops the rust where it is, and polishes the surface.



View media item 54884


Here's the new junk



View media item 54886

Gibbs is good stuff. I had a can that I finished but haven't replaced it yet.
I'm trying a penetrol finish on my Parker. I'll see how it turns out. I'm going to put on another coat and bake it.

 

[joe.striper]

Found this place 1/2 mile from me. 50,000 sq ft of machinist tools from the last 100 years. No pics allowed but I did snap this one from the entrance. Finagled this 4" Sampson from him, my first one, for $40. He has stuff I've never seen before, ever.

More to come...

 

[bagged89s10]

It looks okay, but at the end of the day, it's all CNC produced stuff. There's no actual craftmanship in it.

True no actual hand craftsmanship, but it still took some effort and looks killer.

 

[zkling]

This is probably the best Wilton tradesman snap on restore ever.

http://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/111827576865

That's great. I wonder if he did it, or if he bought it like that? Looks like he has been selling of machinist tools. Maybe he bought it as is.

It looks okay, but at the end of the day, it's all CNC produced stuff. There's no actual craftmanship in it.

But it still has sharp edges. Although I'm not a huge fan of how he radiused the back edges of the jaws. I think a good chamfer would have been better. And I disagree about the craftsmanship, only because it was probably a one off, not a production run. Even with CNC capabilities there is quite a bit of know how, skill and fineness that goes into one off parts.

 

[bagged89s10]

That's great. I wonder if he did it, or if he bought it like that? Looks like he has been selling of machinist tools. Maybe he bought it as is.



But it still has sharp edges. Although I'm not a huge fan of how he radiused the back edges of the jaws. I think a good chamfer would have been better. And I disagree about the craftsmanship, only because it was probably a one off, not a production run. Even with CNC capabilities there is quite a bit of know how, skill and fineness that goes into one off parts.

I messaged the seller to compliment his work and he said, "Thank you, I have been a tool and die maker/ cnc programmer for 29 years. I take a lot a pride in my craft, thank you again for noticing my work."

 

[Hemi49]

I was curious about this as well. On my recent restore, once I dipped the vise in Zepresto to dissolve the paint, it also dissolved what appeared to be filler in a casting imperfection near one of the hold down holes. I assumed it was like this from the factory because it doesnt appear to 'damage', rather a defect.

Is it known for Wilton to use filler to hide imperfections?

Kunk
I'm not sure what is customary at the Wilton factory.....But, I assume the paint crew has a pail of bondo they use to patch blemished castings before painting...
Hemi

 

[Mr_P]

I wouldn't be surprised if that custom "Snap-ton" goes into 4 figures.

 

[drivesitfar]

ALL: so i just checked Dayid's and couldn't find the vise Wiki he supported. did he give up on it or does anybody know the link?

anybody know how wide the jaws are on a Rock Island 597 and how much it weighs?

thanks

 

[KMScott]

I just finished the first fitting today with my CNC and surface grinder, I do believe there is some Craftsmanship fitting jaws like these. Time does not permit making everything by hand. I guess a question would be does making parts by hand make you a Craftsman. I do not think so.

I like how the Snapon vise Veeps posted has a pretty unique handle, seems he made the ends out of Bronze but attached them further up the handle instead of just at the knob. Pretty nice work.

 

[thursday]

It looks okay, but at the end of the day, it's all CNC produced stuff. There's no actual craftmanship in it.

Yeah and a Formula-One driver isn't a real race car driver because his car has all number of electronic aids.

 

[Low Friction]

ALL: so i just checked Dayid's and couldn't find the vise Wiki he supported. did he give up on it or does anybody know the link?

anybody know how wide the jaws are on a Rock Island 597 and how much it weighs?

thanks

Can still see his content here:

http://scuttle.dayid.org/wiki/index.php/Category:Vise

 

[oldldh]

Well, Sports Fans---

If anybody can recognize craftsmanship...

Reverend Scott of the "Church of the Flying Chips" is the man...

By the way, even though that Snap-On Wilton is a "Swivlin' B@#tard"...

I'd feed it...

 

[xxaler]

I just finished the first fitting today with my CNC and surface grinder, I do believe there is some Craftsmanship fitting jaws like these. Time does not permit making everything by hand. I guess a question would be does making parts by hand make you a Craftsman. I do not think so.

I like how the Snapon vise Veeps posted has a pretty unique handle, seems he made the ends out of Bronze but attached them further up the handle instead of just at the knob. Pretty nice work.

Got the jaws for the Craftsman 5168 Fitted today, work perfect. Turns out they're the exact same size as for the Record 634, just different bolt pattern.

 

[thursday]

I just finished the first fitting today with my CNC and surface grinder, I do believe there is some Craftsmanship fitting jaws like these. Time does not permit making everything by hand. I guess a question would be does making parts by hand make you a Craftsman. I do not think so.

I like how the Snapon vise Veeps posted has a pretty unique handle, seems he made the ends out of Bronze but attached them further up the handle instead of just at the knob. Pretty nice work.

Don't pay any attention, he's never smelt a machine shop in his life.

 

[Fretters]

It's just personal opinion, and no offence meant Kevin. IMHO though, it's like calling an architect a craftsman because he draws a plan and hands it to a stonemason who then crafts the item in the architects design. Who's the actual craftsman in that scenario? I'd say the stonemason, not the architect, and that's just personally how I view CNC. Being able to design does not a craftsman make. You however do have the manual skills too, so you're in a different league to a person who solely deals with automated systems.

Don't pay any attention, he's never smelt a machine shop in his life.

How remiss of me. I keep forgetting there are some like yourself out there who know everything.

 

[drivesitfar]

Friction: thank you very much.

All: anybody know the width of the Rock Island 597's jaw and it's weight?

 

[zkling]

6" jaws and about 135lbs I think. Fixed base right? I'll be surprised if you see this.

 

[jrobb316]

597 would be the fixed base version of the 577. Never seen or heard of one.

 

[bagged89s10]

There are a few threads on here with a rock island 597.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=193399

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=236544

Also look at page 624 post 12465 of this thread.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44782&page=624

 

[McBrownie]

ALL: so i just checked Dayid's and couldn't find the vise Wiki he supported. did he give up on it or does anybody know the link?

anybody know how wide the jaws are on a Rock Island 597 and how much it weighs?

thanks

Drives,

It's there now:
http://scuttle.dayid.org/wiki/index.php/User:Dayid

 

[Hemi49]

It's just personal opinion, and no offence meant Kevin. IMHO though, it's like calling an architect a craftsman because he draws a plan and hands it to a stonemason who then crafts the item in the architects design. Who's the actual craftsman in that scenario? I'd say the stonemason, not the architect, and that's just personally how I view CNC. Being able to design does not a craftsman make. You however do have the manual skills too, so you're in a different league to a person who solely deals with automated systems.




How remiss of me. I keep forgetting there are some like yourself out there who know everything.

I spent my working career as both a blue collar machinist and ultimately managing an operation full of manual and CNC machine tools.....Virtually every CNC machine tool can be conversationally programmed on the floor, at the control by the operator.....The operator writing the program must have all the tooling, material and machining knowledge that his manual machining brethren possesses......To me a person who programs and operates a CNC machine is every bit a craftsman as the manual machinist making the same part.....Exclusions to this would be a "button pusher" CNC operator that runs an already programmed and set-up machine.....We also operated that way when we needed run time and lacked skilled operators....The machining world is now ruled by CNC machines......Try buying a new jig borer, shaper, USA built engine lathe, manual vertical boring mill, etc....The old school machine tools are becoming museum pieces the same as the vernier caliper......

 

[bagged89s10]

I spent my working career as both a blue collar machinist and ultimately managing an operation full of manual and CNC machine tools.....Virtually every CNC machine tool can be conversationally programmed on the floor, at the control by the operator.....The operator writing the program must have all the tooling, material and machining knowledge that his manual machining brethren possesses......To me a person who programs and operates a CNC machine is every bit a craftsman as the manual machinist making the same part.....Exclusions to this would be a "button pusher" CNC operator that runs an already programmed and set-up machine.....We also operated that way when we needed run time and lacked skilled operators....The machining world is now ruled by CNC machines......Try buying a new jig borer, shaper, USA built engine lathe, manual vertical boring mill, etc....The old school machine tools are becoming museum pieces the same as the vernier caliper......

I agree. It takes skill to design a part and run it on a cnc machine. The person that restored that snap on vise is definitely a craftsman.

 

[Username already in use]

OK, so I'm not sure how 'well' I did here, but I got one nice usable vise (3-1/2" Rock Island 92A) and one that will need to be cross posted to the vise repair thread (4" Desmond Simplex 500). No visible damage to the castings on either vise. Both followed me home for $35.
Rock Island 92A, Machinist, fixed base

Desmond 500, Mechanics, swivel base
Looks like the handle was broken off of the screw? Dunno...

-0lllll0-

 

[exmaxima1]

I spent my working career as both a blue collar machinist and ultimately managing an operation full of manual and CNC machine tools.....Virtually every CNC machine tool can be conversationally programmed on the floor, at the control by the operator.....The operator writing the program must have all the tooling, material and machining knowledge that his manual machining brethren possesses......To me a person who programs and operates a CNC machine is every bit a craftsman as the manual machinist making the same part.

Hemi:
+1
Totally agree. And what model Parker is in your avatar pic?

 

[bagged89s10]

I love Bluetooth and being able to drive while taking a conference call for work. This morning, I was able to do just that and pick up with early Reed 205. It opens, closes, and swivels perfectly as it is. It also had 2 swivel lock downs unlike the Reed 404 I own and the 204r I sold last weekend. Oh yeah, I paid $50. I'm kind of glad my deal for the rotating Parker fell thru and got this for about 1/3 the price instead.

 

[Fretters]

I spent my working career as both a blue collar machinist and ultimately managing an operation full of manual and CNC machine tools.....Virtually every CNC machine tool can be conversationally programmed on the floor, at the control by the operator.....The operator writing the program must have all the tooling, material and machining knowledge that his manual machining brethren possesses......To me a person who programs and operates a CNC machine is every bit a craftsman as the manual machinist making the same part.....Exclusions to this would be a "button pusher" CNC operator that runs an already programmed and set-up machine.....We also operated that way when we needed run time and lacked skilled operators....The machining world is now ruled by CNC machines......Try buying a new jig borer, shaper, USA built engine lathe, manual vertical boring mill, etc....The old school machine tools are becoming museum pieces the same as the vernier caliper......

Hemi:
+1
Totally agree.

It's a mere difference of opinion and nowt else chaps. There's no way on earth I would try to take away from the knowledge, experience and skill an operator may possess, (and I understand some operators/designers may also be skilled on the manual side of things), but it still doesn't change my opinion, the same as I wouldn't try to change yours. I will merely never be able to look at something which was created on a machine which could then automatically produce N times that amount of exact copies without further input and class that as craftmanship. A skewed perception it may be, but it's still my perception, the same as you have yours. Now put the handbags away girls.

As I say, there was no intent to detract from an operators/designers skill.

 

[drivesitfar]

Friction: thanks for posting the link to Dayid's and i've saved it to my favorites, but my laptop keeps crashing so i might have to ask again. nice to see you are still around and has your vise family grown lately and how about a picture or two?

McB: thanks

Fretters: i like the idea of custom and especially on products that will last 100's of years. unfortunately the CNC machines cost so much they have to spin off lots of bits and pieces to pay for themselves. not everything is throwaway coming off those machines, but we see so much junk it has us brainwashed. wish i had the funds to buy a nice one and the power to run it, but like a BOAT (break out another thousand) i bet that day is passed unless i find a friend that owns one that i can use.

ZK: no i haven't blocked your posts. i have 5 adult children and half of them are older than you so just wanted to vent. thanks for the information and since it wasn't on dayid's where did you find it? my searching on a crashing laptop or my little screen cell phone ***** lately.

BTW please don't mention my furry freind's passing again and I won't ask to have you banned. Even Nines showed some compassion and he has said many many times how he hates cats.

 

[Hemi49]

Hemi:
+1
Totally agree. And what model Parker is in your avatar pic?

EXMAXIMA
The Parker in my avitar picture is a 975 in very nice condition.....I was told an old Duffer (like me) had it in his basement workshop......

 

[Hemi49]

I love Bluetooth and being able to drive while taking a conference call for work. This morning, I was able to do just that and pick up with early Reed 205. It opens, closes, and swivels perfectly as it is. It also had 2 swivel lock downs unlike the Reed 404 I own and the 204r I sold last weekend. Oh yeah, I paid $50. I'm kind of glad my deal for the rotating Parker fell thru and got this for about 1/3 the price instead.

BAGGED
How come you always get the nice stuff?

 

[drivesitfar]

Hemi: that's like the pot calling the kettle black isn't it? have you lined up the vise family for some more pictures? if so please post an updated one.

Bagged: now find the Craftsman 5183 branded Reed that is your Reed's twin with 5 inch jaws. it was one of my favorite vises, but had to give it up to get my Reed 4c. i'm guessing your Reed is heading out the door because your shelf and benches can only hold so much, but that one would be almost a perfect vise for about 95% of us. thanks for the links to the 597 and i'll see if i can find the vise in them when i have more time.

 

[zkling]

[

ZK: no i haven't blocked your posts. i have 5 adult children and half of them are older than you so just wanted to vent. thanks for the information and since it wasn't on dayid's where did you find it? my searching on a crashing laptop or my little screen cell phone ***** lately.

I have a catalog scan that has the original series 7x and 9x series. The 57X and 59X are just the more modern variants with replaceable jaws IIRC. It lists at 6", 135lbs.

 

[joe.striper]

It's a mere difference of opinion and nowt else chaps. There's no way on earth I would try to take away from the knowledge, experience and skill an operator may possess, (and I understand some operators/designers may also be skilled on the manual side of things), but it still doesn't change my opinion, the same as I wouldn't try to change yours. I will merely never be able to look at something which was created on a machine which could then automatically produce N times that amount of exact copies without further input and class that as craftmanship. A skewed perception it may be, but it's still my perception, the same as you have yours. Now put the handbags away girls.

As I say, there was no intent to detract from an operators/designers skill.

Fretters, having spent my entire life up to 30 driving British cars (you name it I had it) I understand your position. it seems 1/2 of the cars I had which were manufactured 1957-1968 had some handwork on them. But if I may try to resolve this discussion to everyone's satisfaction, I agree with you both. As I like to say, that's why God made blondes, brunettes and redheads! Beauty is beauty regardless how it got there or who made it.

 

[drivesitfar]

ZK: thanks again. here's a couple pictures of the 597 in case you or JRobb or others might not have seen it yet.

 

[Mr_P]

So I passed on the Wilton, but I did get a better picture of it. Looks like a decent size compared to the soda can....

 

[Mr_P]

I did make this expensive purchase on something that looks like a vise. Seller didn't know what it was either as you can see from the tag...

 

[bagged89s10]

Hemi: that's like the pot calling the kettle black isn't it? have you lined up the vise family for some more pictures? if so please post an updated one.



Bagged: now find the Craftsman 5183 branded Reed that is your Reed's twin with 5 inch jaws. it was one of my favorite vises, but had to give it up to get my Reed 4c. i'm guessing your Reed is heading out the door because your shelf and benches can only hold so much, but that one would be almost a perfect vise for about 95% of us. thanks for the links to the 597 and i'll see if i can find the vise in them when i have more time.

I've owned 5 reeds of which I sold the 1st two.
104R
204R
I currently own a 404, 105R, and a 205. I think I'll paint them all the same red with black. I'm going to try to brush on the paint with added penetrol this winter to see if I can get it to pay smooth.


I was going to paint this 204R the same but never got to before someone wanted to buy it as is after the etank.

 

[Mr_P]

I passed on this old school unknown brand. Maybe someone else knows details....

 

[drivesitfar]

P: you might want to buy that old Parker if it's not too expensive. it's mid 1800's is my guess until the Parker guys show up to say more. it even has a set of pipe jaws and i thought that most of them are in Area 51 now.

Bagged: so would you say Reed or Parker is your favorite other than the Wiltons paying for your vise habit?

 

[bagged89s10]

I passed on this old school unknown brand. Maybe someone else knows details....

Maybe an hb smith?