Ko-ken Regular,Zeal or Nut Grip sockets

[lilxtra]

Ok, let me start off by saying I HATE this site; I have only been a member for about a year & it has caused me to spend more on tools than I have in the last 15 years!

On to the question at hand: After seeing the post on the Ko-ken sockets I'm highly intrigued by them and will probably purchase set. My quandary is I'm leaning toward the nut grips as they would be helpful in a tight engine compartment, my only gripe is the set doesn't have a 15mm nutgrip which is a popular size. Looking for someone that has them to help on my decision.
BTW, their wobble sockets look fantastic, GAAA, there goes more money I don't have!!

 

[dutchgray]

3/8" 10 piece nut grip set has 15mm, according to the catalogue, as does the 1/2" set. You will have to buy a heap of singles if you want all the sizes anyway.
If you already have normal sockets that work I would get the nutgrip, the Zeal is a dedicated compact system which is nice if you need it.

 

[SantaAna12]

I bought the 1/4 Zeal because I wanted the best access in tight applications. There are a few threads on 1/4 socket heigth of SO, Koken Zeal, and another I can't remember. It's a great thread. Lots of Koken love threads as well.

I really like them.

 

[rice rocket]

I use the Zeal as my go-to set, I've found I've had enough engagement for everything, except where you would normally use a deep socket anyways.

I'm considering those nut grips to supplement though...

 

[Dave455]

If you like the look of the Nutgrips then go for it, and just add any sizes you need! Just beware that Koken say the Nutgrips can't take quite as much torque as the regular, so they are a bit of a specialist item! They do work though!

Not quite sure what you mean by 'wobble sockets'? Koken make wobble extensions, which work with regular sockets, and universal sockets! I own some of the latter and have no complaints!

 

[lilxtra]

The set I'm looking at on Franktools.com site is RS3450m/8 and it doesn't have the 15mm

Dave455: I meant wobble extensions sorry!

 

[dutchgray]

RS3450m/10 does have 15mm, 10 piece set not 8 piece.

 

[Dave455]

Here are some pictures that may help you decide... or not! Hopefully the differences in the nut grip are visible!

My set didn't include a 15mm either, but then here in the U.K. I seldom need that size as neither the British Metric, German or Japanese standards use it, and all the American stuff I have has sensible sized bolts, like 1/2 inch!

I don't own any of the wobble extensions, but I do own the wobble adaptor, which does more (in terms of movement) and costs less!

I started buying Koken when I wanted some extra 3/8 drive for my road box, but couldn't justify top end stuff like Snap On

The way things ended up I use my road box more than my home box, and the Koken seems to be just as durable!

Here are the ratchets I ended up with too!

 

[lilxtra]

Dutchgray: I didn't catch the 10 piece first time around,doesn't look like Frankstools carries it

Don455: THANKS for the pics!! After seeing your wobble adapter I may just buy it instead of the extensions, the universals I have get too floppy after use & the impact universals always seem to bulky so that one may just fit the bill, Thanks again!!

 

[lilxtra]

Dutch: Correction, they have them but they are 1/2" drive, much prefer 3/8"

Don, do you know what the part # is on that wobble adapter?

 

[dutchgray]

Frank would probably get the 10pc 3/8" set if you asked.
Koken does nut grip sockets in 3/8" drive shallow 8-24mm less 9, 20, and 23mm, which is many more than either set.

 

[SantaAna12]

I was just on Franks Dutch. I did not see the 8-24 set?

 

[Wakefield]

The Nut Grips I have are 3/8" drive and look to be low torque. So I would think where there is danger of dropping a nut and it is tight you might want to loosen it a bit with another socket and then switch to the Nutgrip.

 

[dutchgray]

I was just on Franks Dutch. I did not see the 8-24 set?

There isn't, if you want all the sizes you have to buy singles.
You really ought to down load the catalogue.

 

[ricleh]

Frank can get most tools. Just because it is not listed on his site doesn't mean he can't get it. Email him and ask him for a quote. I have bought several thousand dollars worth of tools from him that are not listed on his site.

 

[dutchgray]

http://www.koken-tool.co.jp/en/product.html
For a PDF catalogue.

 

[SantaAna12]

Thanks Dutch. I misread your last.
Good idea on the catalogue.

 

[dutchgray]

Thanks Dutch. I misread your last.
Good idea on the catalogue.

Your wallet will be hurting after you have looked through it though.

 

[SantaAna12]

Hah! If the hurt is from good tools, I will have to tough it out.

I was just looking at these. I work with SS fasteners a lot.....these might make sense.

 

[lilxtra]

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[DSM_PWR]

Ok, let me start off by saying I HATE this site; I have only been a member for about a year & it has caused me to spend more on tools than I have in the last 15 years!

I am the same way.. just tallied up the tool purchases I have made in the four months I have been a member. It comes to over $800!

I liked it better before I realized how much I was spending. Ignorance is bliss.

On to the question at hand: After seeing the post on the Ko-ken sockets I'm highly intrigued by them and will probably purchase set. My quandary is I'm leaning toward the nut grips as they would be helpful in a tight engine compartment, my only gripe is the set doesn't have a 15mm nutgrip which is a popular size. Looking for someone that has them to help on my decision.
BTW, their wobble sockets look fantastic, GAAA, there goes more money I don't have!!

I just purchased a decent amount of Ko-ken tools myself. I ended up going with the Z-EAL hex bit socket set (RS3010MZ/8-L50) and ratchet (3725Z). The Z-EAL stuff is fantastic.. so much so that I plan to purchase the Z-EAL Torx set in the near future.

On the other hand, I also have a 1/4" dr. nut grip socket set on the way from FranksTools. My only 1/4" dr. metric socket set is a Snap-On deep set. I wanted some shallow sockets to work with as well and I liked the idea of the nut grip fastener retention feature when working in tight, hard to reach places. I ended up ordering RS2450MS/6 and then also universal joint nut grip sockets sized 10, 12, 13, and 14mm. I can't offer any feedback as I've yet to receive them, but if they share similar quality to the Z-EAL I know I'll be pleased!

 

[SantaAna12]

Did you find a full set of these lilxtra?

 

[lilxtra]

SantaAna12: just the set of eight, but I really haven't looked around much more. I'm really interested in that wobble adapter that Dave455 showed but I'm not sure if the sockets are interchangeable with it or the socket end is made on to it and you have to buy each individual one.

 

[superautobacs]

Dutchgray: I didn't catch the 10 piece first time around,doesn't look like Frankstools carries it

Don455: THANKS for the pics!! After seeing your wobble adapter I may just buy it instead of the extensions, the universals I have get too floppy after use & the impact universals always seem to bulky so that one may just fit the bill, Thanks again!!

That's just a universal joint; it's not an adapter of any kind.

SantaAna12: just the set of eight, but I really haven't looked around much more. I'm really interested in that wobble adapter that Dave455 showed but I'm not sure if the sockets are interchangeable with it or the socket end is made on to it and you have to buy each individual one.

You can put any socket or accessory onto a universal joint.
The ones that have the socket built onto the universal joint are called "swivel sockets" or "universal sockets".

If you want the most slim profile and shortest height, go with the Zeal universal (spline) joint. The only downside is that the movement of the joint is stiffer compared to a conventional universal joint design (3-pc type).

In the standard Ko-ken lineup, they do offer the traditional universal joint (3-pc type) which is taller in height and with a slightly larger overall profile (but still within industry norms).

If I were you, I'd go with the Zeal spline joint universal. It's A LOT more user-friendly when operating it.

 

[Dave455]

That's just a universal joint; it's not an adapter of any kind.

Yes, you're right, it is!

There was a British dealer selling them as 'wobble adaptors' a while back, to differentiate them from regular UJ's, but that was his term, not KoKen's!

I can see where he was coming from!

KoKen don't call it anything, other than a '3771' in 3/8 drive. Regular UJ is a '3770'

Sensible advice to consider the Zeal version. Mine predates my Zeal acquisition!

Lilxtra - there is a KoKen website, and it will allow you to download a complete catalogue! Worth doing! I guarantee there will be LOADS of stuff in there you never knew you needed!

 

[BK13]

Just to muddy the waters, the first sockets I am going to get from KoKen are going to be Surface Drive, a couple of sets each in 1/4" and 3/8" drive. I just can't remember if they offer mid length in 1/4"....

 

[Dave455]

Just to muddy the waters, the first sockets I am going to get from KoKen are going to be Surface Drive, a couple of sets each in 1/4" and 3/8" drive. I just can't remember if they offer mid length in 1/4"....

That's one of their products I havn't tried! Maybe you could report back when you have!

I know what you mean with regard to the variations.

Think I'll see if they do the 3/8 surface drive in mid length, 6 point, universal, nut grip, Whitworth! May be 'Japan only...'!

 

[BK13]

It's cool they offer so much Whitworth (I think more so than SAE!) but I don't see a need in my future... I don't fit in Brit sport cars and prefer Japanese and German motorcycles.


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[lilxtra]

Superautobacs: As a full time mechanic for over 20 yrs universal joint is what I call them too, but being a Japanese company I just figured their terminology was different! I would have said "swivel sockets" but I wasn't sure he would know what I was talking about. I keep forgetting that this site is more tool savy than most !
Thanks for the info guys, I'm almost afraid to download the catalog, I'll be broke for years!

 

[BK13]

Yeah, I got bored one night after work and made a 'wish list'... Three pages of sockets only!


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[superautobacs]

snip*

KoKen don't call it anything, other than a '3771' in 3/8 drive. Regular UJ is a '3770'

*snip

Huh, I forgot that they offered the pinned style universal joint. I wonder what other tool manufacturer offers three different styles of UJs!?

Just to muddy the waters, the first sockets I am going to get from KoKen are going to be Surface Drive, a couple of sets each in 1/4" and 3/8" drive. I just can't remember if they offer mid length in 1/4"....

I bought a few in common sizes many years ago for the home garage:
10, 12mm in 1/4 drive
14, 17mm in 3/8 drive
I don't use them very often, but one of the first things you will notice is that when using the surface-drive profile socket, it will feel like the socket fits loosely on the fastener. That's the inherent nature of a true flank-drive tool as it engages the flats of the fastener, away from the corner.
What that means in practical terms is that using them in a confined space can be annoying, especially if you're driving it with a low-tooth count ratchet. In such situations, mating it with a high-tooth count ratchet would be highly recommended.

 

[BK13]

Cool, thanks for the heads-up. I have a couple of XP120 rats that should help with that.


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[superautobacs]

Cool, thanks for the heads-up. I have a couple of XP120 rats that should help with that.


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I don't mean to sway your decision, but another key point I want to mention is this:

I consider surface drive sockets as specialty sockets that are used for situations where you are:

- working with a damaged fastener (rounded corners)

- working on plated fasteners

 

[BK13]

Got it. I have pretty full sets of regular sockets already.... Some SO, Wright, SK, GW, Carlyle, USA CM, and some spline stuff, so that was my intended use for them, as special purpose sockets. I just wish they offered more SAE stuff.


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[bimmer630]

Has anyone on GJ used the nutgrip torx sockets from ko-ken? I SWEAR I saw a universal joint set of koken nut grip torx in a catalog somewhere a while back, but they dont list that in their catalog, so maybe Im dreaming, or maybe they just stopped making them...

Anyway I have interest in the nutgrips in metric and in E-torx.. IF anyone has stories to tell about these sockets, please let me know if they are worth it/not worth it

I work on BMW and the aluminum Etorx oil pan bolts etc can be a pain

 

[superautobacs]

Has anyone on GJ used the nutgrip torx sockets from ko-ken? I SWEAR I saw a universal joint set of koken nut grip torx in a catalog somewhere a while back, but they dont list that in their catalog, so maybe Im dreaming, or maybe they just stopped making them...

Anyway I have interest in the nutgrips in metric and in E-torx.. IF anyone has stories to tell about these sockets, please let me know if they are worth it/not worth it

I work on BMW and the aluminum Etorx oil pan bolts etc can be a pain

I have the E12, 14, and 16

Just used the E-12 this past week to do a transfer case.

They do work fairly well. Compared to regular nut-grips for hex fasteners, these require a bit more attention by the user to ensure you are properly engaged with the fastener. E-torx fastners can have differing dimensions too, so on some fasteners the holding power is less and so requires a bit of finesse to ensure you don't drop the fastener.

I really wish they could expand to include some 1/4 drive sizes in E8, 10, and 12

 

[Qualitytools]

I have a set of KOKEN Zeal in 3/8 and like them a lot!