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Are the neutral and ground technically interchangeable in 3-wire 220V outlet?
- Thread starter OSULemon
- Start date
myredracer
Well-known member
I disagree.
There are a lot of qualified folks here, and incorrect info is quickly weeded out.
Besides, a lot of the same folks that frequent Holt's are members here.
I didn't say there aren't qualified people here (I'm an EE myself and also registered on the Holt forum.) I said "There are some very knowledgeable folks here". Perhaps I should have said knowledgeable qualified people. What I meant was don't use sites like a DIY chat room or home inspector site that aren't likely to have correct and accurate info. from qualified electrical people.
Last edited:
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
That was my point, DIYChatroom has many qualified people. Many of us that frequent ElectricianTalk.com also go to DIYChatroom.com as well.What I meant was don't use sites like a DIY chat room or home inspector site that aren't likely to have correct and accurate info. from qualified electrical people.
You can't disregard the quality of advice you get based solely on the site.
acer66
Well-known member
I disagree.
There are a lot of qualified folks here, and incorrect info is quickly weeded out.
Besides, a lot of the same folks that frequent Holt's are members here.
This and like with most other forums you quickly learn who you should listen to.
If you want correct answers, go ask or search here where there are electricians, engineers, inspectors, etc.: http://codeforum.mikeholt.com/ Don't be looking on sites like a DIY chatroom, nachi and the like. (There are some very knowledgeable folks here.)
One thing to note is that in a cable (romex in a house), the ground wire is typically a smaller gauge so if it were connected to the neutral prong and if the current were high enough it could overheat resulting in a fire. A ground wire is not intended (or permitted) to be a current carrying conductor.
At the end of the day, safety is paramount. If changing out something (like in the OP's case) it should be made safe and to current code requirements.
red hilite is not true, at least where I live. All currently available romex has full gauge ground. Been that way for a loonnngg time. Back in the 60's there was a time when 12ga romex had a very small ground (16-18ga??) but no longer.
Above 10 AWG, NM cable has a reduced equipment grounding conductor, 10 AWG & below has the same size as the insulated conductors, NM cable from the early 1970's & back had a reduced size EGC, but that went away with either the 1968 or 1971 NEC.
Above 10 AWG, NM cable has a reduced equipment grounding conductor, 10 AWG & below has the same size as the insulated conductors, NM cable from the early 1970's & back had a reduced size EGC, but that went away with either the 1968 or 1971 NEC.
you're right of course. In my last post I jumped from 'romex' to the 14-12-10 I always seen on recepts and lights.
sberry
Banned
Norcal, thanks for bringing this up. I was actually going to ask.
The reason I participate here is I recall the mistakes I made. My training was hand to mouth and very poor and I am super acutely aware today as to what that was.
My craft work was good, I did it mostly right, it looked good and passed inspections but I didn't know what the fug I was doing.
It wasn't till I got to the internet and got a chance to study under someone way above my scale and got the book that I kind of got it. I see it here, so many experts are such poor teachers.
I only know where 5 wires go if we include the one to the ground rod. A real electrician knows way more about most everything about electricity than I do but I am still fascinated as to how I can study these wires and after a decade still learn something new about them, this look is forward and backwards.
Some real study of electrical theory would help but it really doesn't interest me as much as the code compliance and a bit of how and why that lets me design a usable and safe circuit or diagnose an uncleared fault.
My early training and experience focused on general wiring and never went in to details, I am not an academic but no one ever sat me down and splained short circuit properly. It has been such a slow process that it is really grooved in there. I made bond mistakes and did stupid **** when was a kid with multi wire etc but most of it has been gone and I even check a few jobs I did and fix a bit. I went to one I wire a garage when I was a kid and someone had beat me to it and fixed a problem.
I have been
The reason I participate here is I recall the mistakes I made. My training was hand to mouth and very poor and I am super acutely aware today as to what that was.
My craft work was good, I did it mostly right, it looked good and passed inspections but I didn't know what the fug I was doing.
It wasn't till I got to the internet and got a chance to study under someone way above my scale and got the book that I kind of got it. I see it here, so many experts are such poor teachers.
I only know where 5 wires go if we include the one to the ground rod. A real electrician knows way more about most everything about electricity than I do but I am still fascinated as to how I can study these wires and after a decade still learn something new about them, this look is forward and backwards.
Some real study of electrical theory would help but it really doesn't interest me as much as the code compliance and a bit of how and why that lets me design a usable and safe circuit or diagnose an uncleared fault.
My early training and experience focused on general wiring and never went in to details, I am not an academic but no one ever sat me down and splained short circuit properly. It has been such a slow process that it is really grooved in there. I made bond mistakes and did stupid **** when was a kid with multi wire etc but most of it has been gone and I even check a few jobs I did and fix a bit. I went to one I wire a garage when I was a kid and someone had beat me to it and fixed a problem.
I have been
sberry
Banned
I have been making a bit of a forensic investigation of this issue. My scope in the service world is limited but in my area just helping a few friends can see some of the same "fingerprints". I can actually identify several wireman and handyman types, some in the same panel and visible with upgrades. Using the wire can often time date some of it.
I see master as original installer, handyman, master, handyman etc. I had one I tried to figure out wtf and finally grasped the food chain, somehow got the entrance turned on and never another inspection.
I can see with some history where it slipped thru the cracks. We got some guys still do this and I am tracking a couple in my area down. The fukkups are magnified and outright disconnected with panel to panel and service to building from existing service and old work etc.
I see on some of the print sheets posted,,, says,,,,, make sure you understand this. So,, where was I?????? The smaller ground wire. As I recall most I have seen was on 220, maybe water heaters at the time??
Its interesting but I am not up for the study it would take but would certainly read a timeline of some of the changes if such a thing existed?
I see master as original installer, handyman, master, handyman etc. I had one I tried to figure out wtf and finally grasped the food chain, somehow got the entrance turned on and never another inspection.
I can see with some history where it slipped thru the cracks. We got some guys still do this and I am tracking a couple in my area down. The fukkups are magnified and outright disconnected with panel to panel and service to building from existing service and old work etc.
I see on some of the print sheets posted,,, says,,,,, make sure you understand this. So,, where was I?????? The smaller ground wire. As I recall most I have seen was on 220, maybe water heaters at the time??
Its interesting but I am not up for the study it would take but would certainly read a timeline of some of the changes if such a thing existed?
sberry
Banned
Its hard to explain to some people that even though it works its wrong.
Hard to splain so many of the safety/fault protections built in to our electric system and how many are interconnected,,, all kind of rely on proper design and install to be effective.
The common 20A circuit has about a dozen highly fundamental principles built in with the plug and recept system never,,,,,,,,,,,,,, never occur to the user and many handyman and even some electric professionals.
Hard to splain so many of the safety/fault protections built in to our electric system and how many are interconnected,,, all kind of rely on proper design and install to be effective.
The common 20A circuit has about a dozen highly fundamental principles built in with the plug and recept system never,,,,,,,,,,,,,, never occur to the user and many handyman and even some electric professionals.
sberry
Banned
Anyway,,, I am a bigger fan of inspections than before I knew this,,,, hahahahahaa. I see many missing links if I want to look mostly found in panel to panel wiring.