The VISES of Garage Journal

[Fretters]

I really like this vise, seems rare and unusual, hope I didn't pay too much for this one.

Christ, even a highwayman would be classing you as their superior with that purchase. To say you got a good deal at $50 would be a slight understatement. Lovely vice you've got yourself there.

 

[Bottlecapdigger]

Hey guys. This thread made me grab this vise that was laying on a skid in my shed. Used to be my father's, i think it was the one in his shop about 20 years ago. Just wondering if it is worth fixing up and if so, some instructions on the best way to do so using the methods which will achieve the best results. Thanks in advance!

*** or a link to "restoring vises"... but I'm still searching. This thread has so much good material.*** but would still appreciate feedback on my Parker vise.

For post 39984. Any CP Vise is worth restoring, in my opinion they are one of the best ones made. I have 3 now. 956.5. 953. And 975.

 

[bagged89s10]

For post 39984. Any CP Vise is worth restoring, in my opinion they are one of the best ones made. I have 3 now. 956.5. 953. And 975.

+1. They are my favorites.

 

[G20-Budo]

Drives - can you see the pics of my recently purchased snap on (Wilton 1750 tradesman) vise now?

 

[slow_runner]

These fabricated offset vices are great for welding tables which is where this one will end up. They are nice and compact but rigid and square even at the outer jaw edge on heavy clamping. Thats a 4" RHS in the jaws.

Yes I am impressed with the build of these vices Ralf. Your experience with them and supportive comments on their performance is reassuring.

I'm guessing they did adopt the Joplin style tag after they took them onboard, but I have only seen them use it on made in Australia fabricated vices (still to this day) and some of their sash cramps.

The fabricated vices stamped Dawn and the cheesy plasticised logo are almost certainly made offshore.

Given that I am from the Melbourne area where Dawn originate, there are very few interloping Joplin vices from Sydney to be found locally. I do have an early 70's 5" cast Joplin vice out in the back shed which is probably the equivalent of the discontinued Dawn L or "Lite" series.

The ones we see here selling new do not have the tag so will be the Asian sourced units. Trying to keep the prices down to what the market demands is always going to be an issue.
That is why we like older stuff. Most of it has style, function and build quality.
My Dawn requires a bit of metal forming with the hammer and some light grinding to remedy where it has been beaten with a few misdirected blows. if you haven't seen the images, they are here at post #40071
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5417979#post5417979

 

[Dave_In_NB]

The Canadian vise content is under represented here; I'll do my best to improve it as I discover them. Today I'll introduce you to my second Canadian discovery: the James Smart Manufacturing Co.....

1854: James Smart opens his Novelty Works
1860: Foundry established
1881: Business incorporated as the James Smart Manufacturing Co. Ltd.
1886: Took over Smart & Shepherd, a rival operated by Smart's nephews
1893: Purchased the Chown & Cunningham foundry in nearby Kingston
1912: Canada Foundries and Forgings acquires James Smart Manufacturing Co. Ltd.
1965: Company closed

An 1885 catalog can be found here archive.org/details/cihm_89431.

Here are the pages relating to vises (or vices as per the catalog spelling). The images are not very clear but it may reveal some interesting informations nevertheless to some of you. They produced some vises under the Prentiss patent.

And here is the 4" vise that I am assuming was manufactured by James Smart since I have no hard evidence to rely on. The swivel base locking bolts are obviously not original; other than that it is in good shape.

 

[jakemac]

Drives - can you see the pics of my recently purchased snap on (Wilton 1750 tradesman) vise now?

Yup, they're working now.

 

[slow_runner]

The Canadian vise content is under represented here; I'll do my best to improve it as I discover them. Today I'll introduce you to my second Canadian discovery: the James Smart Manufacturing Co.....

1854: James Smart opens his Novelty Works
1860: Foundry established
1881: Business incorporated as the James Smart Manufacturing Co. Ltd.
1886: Took over Smart & Shepherd, a rival operated by Smart's nephews
1893: Purchased the Chown & Cunningham foundry in nearby Kingston
1912: Canada Foundries and Forgings acquires James Smart Manufacturing Co. Ltd.
1965: Company closed

Here are the pages relating to vises (or vices as per the catalog spelling).

Good onya Dave. It is always interesting and illuminating to learn the history.
I have seen a few down this way like that.

BTW It was explained to me that they spell vice as vise so that their people dont end up at the incorrect sites when searching for ***********

 

[Dave_In_NB]

Here in Canada, because of the influence of our neighbours (neighbors), people will spell words à-la American or à-la British depending on which language influenced them the most, although most newspapers and the likes will stick to a Canadian convention which has a mixture of British and American spelling - Colour [CA], Color [US] for example.

It's pretty obvious what 'vice' means in a sentence, but you are right if one does a 'goggle' search for vice and vise, the results are quite different.

 

[va.grouseman]

Originally posted by Drivesitfar.

ALL: Just say YES DEAR to your Bride and it's the secret to a GOOD MARRAIGE. of course sometimes remember not to say it too loud in case you might not mean it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Good one Drive.

I told the Madam once "( A woman marries a man thinking she can change him.---He never does.---A man marries a woman thinking she will never change.---She always does" ).---I thought it was funny but I got the death stare from the wife.

After 32 years of marriage I've learned one thing that I was slow to acccept.---That is, everything that happens that's bad, is your fault.---Be it to her, to the kids, to the house, to the cars, to the in-laws, to what-ever, it's your fault.---I've found that the sooner that you accept your fate in these matters, the easier life gets.

 

[Rileysan]

Thanks Guys, your info is helpful. I paid $50 but I was supposed to unbolt it from the workbench and carry it to the back of my truck. The owners grandson beat me to that part...

If you're feeling bad about the $50, I think there's a few people on this forum who will fall all over themselves to give you your money back! Well done!!!

Brian

 

[drivesitfar]

Dave: thanks for the information and please keep posting more as you find some and have time to.

G-20: nice Wilton and should look great on the new bench you are going to build.

VA: YEP

Fretters: with me helping in the kitchen more and now that the kids are almost not here except holidays the first part of the hyphenated word is coming back. it's still in there, but the kids, life and of course we tend to make them forget what once was and is fun.

how soon are the boys leaving home? start agreeing more and maybe making a few good dinners and you might be surprised to find your dream girl is still alive.

 

[Dennis Leigh Henry]

Maui: i'm guessing early 1900's or late 1800's the vise companies made special runs through their factories with a few of the big companies at their time that had a fairly big order hence the name on the side of the vise you are looking at. if the weld isn't a repair and just excess weld from a project i'd be tempted to pay a Benjamin for that one especially if it weighs 100 pounds.

some of those old open screw vises were the workhorse for many factories for many years and they just kept on working.

SD: i love those old Record vices with the bolt through jaws and the quick release lever and hoping to find one or two big ones over here some day. it looks mint and not sure of the age of it so maybe you or the other guys know? i'm guessing pre WWII or when?

Dennis: happy to hear you got your vise back. i won't ask why you had to buy it at an estate sale and just assume there was a mis understanding or come communication or other issues. i'm still impressed that you have a your lathe in your basement that you had to take through the kitchen and down the stairs to get there not to mention all those huge cabinets and tools you own. that old columbian looks like Dad used it like a vise and not for beating on.

RK: thanks for posting more pictures and information. if you have questions or want to post more pictures of all those old Parkers or other vises please do.

Slow: Sounds like you still have a mystery vice so maybe post up pictures from all sides and bottom and somebody around the world might have one like it to say what it is. how does it work?

Finally got to cleaning up the vise a bit and installing it in my mobile workbench.. Now I recall why my father loved it so.. look at how sharp those jaw teeth are.. When I was a kid, we had an old Yost with the jaw completely broken off the movable jaw.. so it was hard to hold anything let alone well...

View media item 57139
View media item 57141
View media item 57140
Now to restore it properly once I get some more time on my hands....

 

[Thrumcap]

Hi all

Does anyone have a picture of an American Scale logo in better shape than this one? Going to try some painting.



Thanks,
Thrumcap

PS. A Reed 208 in Hudson Valley, NY ... For $1250

 

[Ralf99]

Yes I am impressed with the build of these vices Ralf. Your experience with them and supportive comments on their performance is reassuring.







The ones we see here selling new do not have the tag so will be the Asian sourced units. Trying to keep the prices down to what the market demands is always going to be an issue.

That is why we like older stuff. Most of it has style, function and build quality.

My Dawn requires a bit of metal forming with the hammer and some light grinding to remedy where it has been beaten with a few misdirected blows. if you haven't seen the images, they are here at post #40071

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5417979#post5417979

Most of the ones sold in Australia are the imports as well - but older Australian made Dawn are plentiful and relatively cheap, though the offsets do command a premium.

I missed the photos of yours first time round - it looks as though whomever had the BFH was either visually challenged or unco-ordinated judging from where the hammer hits landed. If there are any twists in the body at least heat can be used to straighten it out.

The cast offset vices are still the "dog's ********" in my opinion. This was my fathers vice for at least 50 years and I think he bought it second hand. It has been ridden hard most of it's life, and despite having the static jaw tower broken and brazed back 30 years ago is still my go-to vice.





These were made up to a 6" jaw width and are the likely reason that it's very rare to see any 8" Engineer vices in our part of the world.

 

[Ralf99]

Here in Canada, because of the influence of our neighbours (neighbors), people will spell words à-la American or à-la British depending on which language influenced them the most, although most newspapers and the likes will stick to a Canadian convention which has a mixture of British and American spelling - Colour [CA], Color [US] for example.



It's pretty obvious what 'vice' means in a sentence, but you are right if one does a 'goggle' search for vice and vise, the results are quite different.

We here in Australia have stuck with the British English of the Commonwealth, though that is slowly changing. The vice/vise thing is one of the few instances where our stateside brethren have stuck with the traditional spelling and we've morphed.

 

[slow_runner]

Most of the ones sold in Australia are the imports as well - but older Australian made Dawn are plentiful and relatively cheap, though the offsets do command a premium.

I missed the photos of yours first time round - it looks as though whomever had the BFH was either visually challenged or unco-ordinated judging from where the hammer hits landed. If there are any twists in the body at least heat can be used to straighten it out.

The cast offset vices are still the "dog's ********" in my opinion. This was my fathers vice for at least 50 years and I think he bought it second hand. It has been ridden hard most of it's life, and despite having the static jaw tower broken and brazed back 30 years ago is still my go-to vice.

These were made up to a 6" jaw width and are the likely reason that it's very rare to see any 8" Engineer vices in our part of the world.

There are no twists in this one Ralf. These steel units may do so, and it would take some doing I believe, but as you mention, a bit of heat and persuasion and they are back in line; not so cast ones.
I did come upon the larger cast offset vice at a liquidation auction some years back, it got too rich for me..
Do you know if Dawn make their vices in semi-steel? I have seen one or two semi-steel Carter vices.
Speaking of Carter vices, I missed the email notice on this today.

We here in Australia have stuck with the British English of the Commonwealth, though that is slowly changing. The vice/vise thing is one of the few instances where our stateside brethren have stuck with the traditional spelling and we've morphed.

We are being Americanised continually. I avoid the McDonalds experience and prefer a good old Kiwi burger from a decent takeaway place. They can be few and far between though.
As long as we don't adopt the US gallon. 1 US gallon is an exercise in short change

 

[Ralf99]

There are no twists in this one Ralf. These steel units may do so, and it would take some doing I believe, but as you mention, a bit of heat and persuasion and they are back in line; not so cast ones.

I did come upon the larger cast offset vice at a liquidation auction some years back, it got too rich for me..

Do you know if Dawn make their vices in semi-steel? I have seen one or two semi-steel Carter vices.

Speaking of Carter vices, I missed the email notice on this today.





We are being Americanised continually. I avoid the McDonalds experience and prefer a good old Kiwi burger from a decent takeaway place. They can be few and far between though.

As long as we don't adopt the US gallon. 1 US gallon is an exercise in short change

The 1941 Dawn catalogue from Dayid's page shows the cast offsets, Engineers and Drill Press vices as semi-steel.



The current Dawn catalogue lists the Australian made Engineers vices as semi-steel also.



Carter Tools in Sydney closed down around 35 years ago, and they were primarily a manufacturer of wood planes. The vice you have is likely made in their own foundry, but they also marketed Dawn offsets and cramps etc.


(Carter catalogues borrowed from woodworkersforum)

Carter looks like they didn't want to buy into the vice/vise discussion and went with Vyce instead.

 

[joe.striper]

Finally got approval from the seller to buy this from him. Been working on it for 7 months. Ive never seen one before. This one is pretty original. Gonna be expensive.

 

[topop101]

Hi all

Does anyone have a picture of an American Scale logo in better shape than this one? Going to try some painting.



Thanks,
Thrumcap

PS. A Reed 208 in Hudson Valley, NY ... For $1250

WOW That's the most complete one I have ever seen. Good luck with your quest. !

 

[bl00]

Finally got approval from the seller to buy this from him. Been working on it for 7 months. Ive never seen one before. This one is pretty original. Gonna be expensive.

Joe, I love those. The lever on the side makes it a step up from the Parker in my view.

 

[drivesitfar]

Ralf: if you keep this up you'll have 10 posts by the end of the year. seriously thank you for the catalog pages i saved to my laptop about Dawn Vices and all the information.

Dennis: that Columbian looks at home on your bench. is the Leary Filters a relative's company or did you just like the sign?

Joe: I didn't see the handle until Bl00 pointed it out and i agree with Bl00 that even though i like the Parker double swiveler i'd buy that Yost if I had to choose between the two. good luck

 

[kcrccc05]

Hey Joe I have the smaller version of that Yost -it has a 3"jaw

 

[GETRIDAONE]

I assume there is a wedge lock that pushes against the inner barrel ? That is a much better system than Parker had and less chance of breaking. The split housing and the ears the lock bolts go through are both weak points.

 

[drivesitfar]

KCR: is that BLO finish on that COOL Yost vise? if you can take a few more pictures and post them i'll save them to my laptop. nice find

 

[joe.striper]

Hey Joe I have the smaller version of that Yost -it has a 3"jaw

I adjusted both sets of pics to remove some of the darkness and open up the view of the handle. I will try and get pics from the other side as well.

Long story is I was going to buy this for myself but the seller needs cash due to his wife's cancer so I am going to try and get top dollar for this with no profit for me and just pass it along. I will pack it myself for whomever gets this piece. On ThursdayI am going to yet another friend's funeral (53 yrs old) who died from cancer and it just ***** for the family.

I was hoping to pay 200 and keep it but I think the value, even with the minor issues it has, is well above that. I know this isn't normal GJ Protocol but I want to do what I can for this guy. I've done business with him and he is a great guy. He NEVER wanted to sell this vise. Please pm me or email me, you can find my email in my profile if you poke around.

The last two pics are BL00's that I cleaned up for the lever detail. The blue on my buddy's Yost is original.

 

[Dennis Leigh Henry]

Ralf: if you keep this up you'll have 10 posts by the end of the year. seriously thank you for the catalog pages i saved to my laptop about Dawn Vices and all the information.

Dennis: that Columbian looks at home on your bench. is the Leary Filters a relative's company or did you just like the sign?

Joe: I didn't see the handle until Bl00 pointed it out and i agree with Bl00 that even though i like the Parker double swiveler i'd buy that Yost if I had to choose between the two. good luck

Hi Drivesitfar..

No.. Henry Filters is no affiliation that I know of to my family.. I got that machine logo on an old block line that we were scrapping here ~ 10 years ago. The scrapper let me take all those I could get loose and carry out.. I ended up with several. I'll have to see if I can find the post that had many of them on it...

 

[joe.striper]

Thanks everyone the Yost is sold. I am happy for the seller and buyer. Good Karma all around.

 

[drivesitfar]

Joe: WELL DONE and I'll send some prayers for your friend.

Dennis: even if that wasn't your company it's a cool sign to have in your shop.

 

[RHJO51]

Hello there, some new vises came my way. There was a local ad from some good folks slowly cleaning out Grandpa's garage. I had purchased a nice but well used Reed 204 and came back to poke through a mountain of stuff, all-kinds-of-stuff. Saw a big unusual vise and was able to purchase it as well. We had to unbolt it from the work bench. I never saw a vice like this one. It's a Chas Parker No 449. Rotating and swiveling, 4" jaw. Very good shape, but really greasy. Doesn't look abused at all. Can't wait to clean it up. I think it's a early one with the round screw head. Also doesn't have the Parker wrenches on the swivel lock screws. The levers on these are rods with flat head screws in the ends. Is this original? I can't seem to find any pics of this exact vise. I also see that on the opposite side there is a hole. I'm guessing there was some kind of pin. Anyone know??? I really like this vise, seems rare and unusual, hope I didn't pay too much for this one.

I was going to wait to disassemble this 449 but... It came right apart. Very heavy and solid. check out the handle screw assembly next to a Reed 204 - the Reed looks like a baby! The only thing I could not easily get apart is the swivel base. That 1 3/8 bolt is huge! I don't have a socket that big, any thoughts? I am thinking about how I would like to finish this when I get to it, does anyone know what color these old parkers were from the factory? Thanks for your help - Jim

 

[bagged89s10]

I was going to wait to disassemble this 449 but... It came right apart. Very heavy and solid. check out the handle screw assembly next to a Reed 204 - the Reed looks like a baby! The only thing I could not easily get apart is the swivel base. That 1 3/8 bolt is huge! I don't have a socket that big, any thoughts? I am thinking about how I would like to finish this when I get to it, does anyone know what color these old parkers were from the factory? Thanks for your help - Jim

Do you have a large adjustable wrench that opens up the diameter of the 1-3/8 bolt? You can put the wrench perpendicular onto the bolt. Then use another wrench to try and turn it. That's how I usually get them off when I don't have the right size.

 

[joe.striper]

I was going to wait to disassemble this 449 but... It came right apart. Very heavy and solid. check out the handle screw assembly next to a Reed 204 - the Reed looks like a baby! The only thing I could not easily get apart is the swivel base. That 1 3/8 bolt is huge! I don't have a socket that big, any thoughts? I am thinking about how I would like to finish this when I get to it, does anyone know what color these old parkers were from the factory? Thanks for your help - Jim

I would wire wheel that so as not to remove the patina and then just oil it with a very light coat of motor oil. If you want real protection BLO and bake . See previous posts on creating a BLO finish.

 

[drivesitfar]

RHJ: if you don't have or want to buy the socket to take that nut off you can maybe do as Bagged suggested. or do as i did before i got sockets big enough to change bolts on earth movers and use a vise grip if you have one that it big enough.

just remember you have a special vise so try not to ****** it up and for what you paid for it i'd buy a socket or a big socket set to do the job correctly.

good luck

 

[Fretters]

That 1 3/8 bolt is huge! I don't have a socket that big, any thoughts?

Tube spanners are cheap enough, and go upto quite large sizes.

 

[KMScott]

RHJO51, gotta use the right tool, a crescent wrench will damage the 1-3/8 nut. Borrow or rent a large socket. It's the best way.

 

[joe.striper]

Karma is a great thing. Got a call from Old Dominion today that they had a delivery for me. This is what showed up!!!

Recently I helped broker the movement of some big iron across the US. It was complicated and there was no room for profit so I did it as a favor. The buyer and seller sent me this as a 'Thank you'. Total cost to me? Nada, zip, zilch zero. I am...a happy camper.

 

[CRSINMICH]

Karma is a great thing. Got a call from Old Dominion today that they had a delivery for me. This is what showed up!!!

Karma is as karma does! You did good things, Joe.

 

[454ragtop]

I was going to wait to disassemble this 449 but... It came right apart. Very heavy and solid. check out the handle screw assembly next to a Reed 204 - the Reed looks like a baby! The only thing I could not easily get apart is the swivel base. That 1 3/8 bolt is huge! I don't have a socket that big, any thoughts? I am thinking about how I would like to finish this when I get to it, does anyone know what color these old parkers were from the factory? Thanks for your help - Jim

Know anybody that does automotive work? I usually use an axle nut socket, they're metric, but when they get this big, close is close enough, probably around 35MM.
Jim

 

[S4cruiser]

Was on a Craigslist run after work today to look at a Craftsman block grinder. Saw this little guy on the garage floor and asked if it was for sale. 15 bucs later and it's riding home with me!

Reed 103 that's in really nice shape minus the bent handle. Also seems heavy for its size.

 

[dittle fart around]

It's not real till there's a beer can for comparison.