NEED HELP: Old Briggs & Stratton / K&S rototiller

[fiatsam]

I'm trying to resuscitate my late-father's old Montgomery Wards rototiller that he bought 40 or more years ago. It hasn't fired up in at least 10-15 years, but I've got fond memories of using it when I was just a kid, so would like to be able to use it in our yard. However, like so many things I'd like to be able to ask my dad about, I'm struggling to get information about this motor.

The label on top indicates its a 2hp Briggs & Stratton, model KS 122A made by K&S in Fort Worth, TX.

I put some fresh gas in the tank, and after much cranking almost got it to fire up, but with a terrible shrieking noise. The gas tank was bone dry but clean, and I suspect it needs oil as well. I found one other old link on a forum to this specific motor, and part of the discussion was about the proper oil to use. I cannot read the faded label, but more importantly I cannot figure out where to put the oil!

I've taken pictures with both the top and air filter removed to get a better look at it. Does anyone have any idea where to put the oil? I've crawled all over this thing looking, but don't see a tank or filler of any sort (other than the gas tank).

 

[Richard Cranium]

there should be an oil fill cap on the lower part of the body, It will have an 1/2 inch plug in it. It might have a plastic cap with two little **** on it for grip. It will also have a 1/2 plug to drain the oil, If you can post a picture of the lower half of the motor we can point it out for you.
If I remember right it is under the fuel tank, down close to where it bolts onto the frame.

 

[Rookie2]

Looks like the flywheel has a piece of rust trapped and may be hitting the coil. Check compression (remove plug and spin flywheel)

 

[sometoyotaguy]

It's basically, a lawnmower engine. There isn't that much to them. The oil plug should be on the lower right part of the engine towards the front of the tiller.

Like another mentioned, it looks like rust on the flywheel is hitting the coil, and causing the noise.

There isn't much to the carb, as it will come off with 4-5 screws, and disconnecting the associated linkages. There is a little pickup tube with a screen in the bottom. This either corrodes, or get clogged up with crud.

They are pretty tough little engines, so you should be able to get it going without too much work.

That being said, those front tine tillers are pretty terrible to actually used. Especially if the soil is hard or rocky. My parents have one.

 

[ken w.]

If it was mine I would take the flywheel off and take the rust off the outside and take a look at the points and clean them.Blow the thing off with compressed air. Fresh gas would help too. But, from my experience that it will mostly need a carb diaphragm.

 

[fiatsam]

there should be an oil fill cap on the lower part of the body, It will have an 1/2 inch plug in it. It might have a plastic cap with two little **** on it for grip. It will also have a 1/2 plug to drain the oil, If you can post a picture of the lower half of the motor we can point it out for you.
If I remember right it is under the fuel tank, down close to where it bolts onto the frame.

Thanks, this helped. I just took a few new photos but inadvertently pasted them over existing images, so the new ones are in my original post, just mixed up. Your description led me to it. i saw it originally but though it was just a cast piece of the engine body. Now to get some oil in there and address the issues that others have brought up.

 

[Roberts210]

Any good 10W30 will do--change the oil of course. I'd also take the sheet metal off and clean out the air passages so it won't overheat. If it's been sitting that long it probably has critter nests of some variety inside.

 

[Outlawmws]

Show a better overall pic of the engine with this in it, but that looks like the oil fill port

If so fill to the top of the slot you see. W30 10-30 either will do fine. you are better of with non-detergent oil you can get it in quarts from Sears in their yard tool section , or used to be able to.

Is this a horizontal shaft of vertical shaft? Hard to tell... the drain is usually a 1/4" plug in the base of the Horz. shaft motors, and on the underside of the verticals...

HAND wire brush the rust off the flywheel; a power wheel can de-magnetize it.

Take the nut off the crank at the flywheel and see if the key si sheered, even a little bit. if so, replace as the timing is off.

Do you get ANY Spark? (plug out connected and grounded, and pull the rope)

 

[fiatsam]

I put some fresh oil and gas in it, and it fired right up, with a nice and smooth idle. The only thing now is to address the horrible screeching noise. Again, I can't quite tell what is causing it, although it has to be the flywheel. I tried adjusting the top cover to no effect, but I was able to start it with the cover loose, and then pulled it off, and the sound went away. I don't see any marks on the underside of the cover, so I'm still trying to visualize what is making contact to cause the noise.

 

[fiatsam]

That being said, those front tine tillers are pretty terrible to actually used. Especially if the soil is hard or rocky. My parents have one.

I agree, but I guess it's through rose-colored glasses that I can look back on the struggles I had tilling my parents' yard.

 

[flht1997]

its your starter clutch that is screeching, disassemble and clean and lubricate. it is the square thing that engages the starter rope.

 

[KMinAF]

Your not alone, here's a link to my thread on refurbishing an old Penny's tiller:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=267401

 

[raiderhillbilly]

its your starter clutch that is screeching, disassemble and clean and lubricate. it is the square thing that engages the starter rope.

This is correct.

 

[laser3kw]

most B&S motors took 20 oz of straight 30 weight oil. Filling it to just about the top of that port is good.
Never use multi weight oils (5w30, 10w30) in air cooled lawn equipment (unless the manufacture specifically calls for it in the manual).

its your starter clutch that is screeching, disassemble and clean and lubricate. it is the square thing that engages the starter rope.

x2
when you pull apart the starter clutch, be prepared to catch the ball bearings that will come out. They will instantly migrate to the one spot, under the bench, you cannot reach. You can service it right where it's at. Remove the two screws and screen. Take a small screwdriver and carefully pry the top plate off the body. Sometimes the square part will come off with it. That's ok. Once you have it off you will find 6 ball bearins in there. Clean everything up. Slide the square part back onto the shaft, it should spin freely, and drop one bearing in each divot in the body. Do not oil anything, this unit operates dry. Slide the top plate back on and tap it to re seat it. Install the screen and screws.

 

[cmanningjr]

I have an old Sears rototiller I picked up last year.. It'll beat you to death, lol, but it reminds me of my dad tilling the garden when I was a pup..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[four.cycle]

most B&S motors took 20 oz of straight 30 weight oil. Filling it to just about the top of that port is good.
Never use multi weight oils (5w30, 10w30) in air cooled lawn equipment (unless the manufacture specifically calls for it in the manual).


Quote:
its your starter clutch that is screeching, disassemble and clean and lubricate. it is the square thing that engages the starter rope.


x2
when you pull apart the starter clutch, be prepared to catch the ball bearings that will come out. They will instantly migrate to the one spot, under the bench, you cannot reach. You can service it right where it's at. Remove the two screws and screen. Take a small screwdriver and carefully pry the top plate off the body. Sometimes the square part will come off with it. That's ok. Once you have it off you will find 6 ball bearins in there. Clean everything up. Slide the square part back onto the shaft, it should spin freely, and drop one bearing in each divot in the body. Do not oil anything, this unit operates dry. Slide the top plate back on and tap it to re seat it. Install the screen and screws.

^ this

Do NOT run multi-weight oil in that engine. Unless you're in Canada or the Yukon (or Buffalo in the winter), run straight SAE 30W oil - $2.99 at K-Mart every day.
The "screeching" is the recoil clutch. Remove the bug-screen from flywheel (two 1/4" head machine screws). Block blade with piece of wood. Remove clutch from top of crankshaft. Do NOT strike it with a hammer! I use a small drift punch on the ears to loosen it up. Very carefully pry it apart so you don't damage the seals or drop the bearings. Clean it all out. Do NOT put oil in it! It can be a SOB to re-assemble properly. Put it back on.

If that thing sat for any length of time you may have to replace the diaphragm under the carburetor. Very carefully remove the carburetor from the tank and take a look at it. You might be able to get away with just disassembling it, cleaning it, and putting it back together.

The little plug on the lower flange of the engine sump (with the plastic screw-in plug) is there the oil goes - fill it up almost to the brim with SAE 30W.

The "K122S" is the model number of the tiller, probably.
The Briggs & Stratton engine model, type, and code are stamped on the blower housing.
It will be a series of letters/numbers like this: 123456 1234 12 12345678 (5 or 6 characters followed by 4 characters followed by 2 characters followed by 7 or 8 characters.) You may need to take a wire brush to the housing to be able to read the numbers/letters.
Once you have those numbers you can look up the parts for it at partstree.com or ereplacementparts.com

 

[theoldwizard1]

All the warning on mult-weight oil are BS ! 10W-30 "detergent" oil is fine. Check the oil BEFORE EVERY startup !

Anyone with that style of B&S carb should know that they typically will NOT run if you do not have the air cleaner housing and center screw installed.

 

[laser3kw]

In the OP's case, he does not have to remove the starter clutch to service it. He can disassemble it while still tighten on the motor. That will save some grief of trying to loosen it. If he needs to remove the flywheel, to service the points, then I would remove it and service it while off the motor.

10W-30 "detergent" oil is fine

multi grade oils are not designed to take the heat load that a air cooled small engine experiences. The oil is actually as much for cooling the motor as it is for lubrication.
Yes, you can use a 10w30 if the motor is light loads such as a push mower. A tiller will work harder and the the multi weight may not stand the heat load and break down prematurely, you may experience high oil consumption in hot weather. Multi weight synthetics are a good choice.
I run straight 30 weight in my summer equipment and 5w30 in my winter equipment.

Briggs oil recommendations link

 

[theoldwizard1]

multi grade oils are not designed to take the heat load that a air cooled small engine experiences. The oil is actually as much for cooling the motor as it is for lubrication.
Yes, you can use a 10w30 if the motor is light loads such as a push mower. A tiller will work harder and the the multi weight may not stand the heat load and break down prematurely, you may experience high oil consumption in hot weather. Multi weight synthetics are a good choice.
I run straight 30 weight in my summer equipment and 5w30 in my winter equipment.

Briggs oil recommendations link

How can you spread this ******** when there is nothing on the B&S referenced page about it !

As a matter of fact that page has this chart

And these statement.

Things to keep in mind when choosing lawn mower oil:

• Use a high quality detergent oil classified "For Service SF, SG, SH, SJ" or higher.
• Do not use special additives.
• Synthetic oils are an acceptable oil at all temperatures. Use of synthetic oil does not alter required oil change intervals.

 

[four.cycle]

"How can you spread this..."

gee, I'll have to remember to ask Bob out at King-Palmer that next time I see him.
I've only been dealing with him for about..... 30 (?) years now, so I guess maybe he doesn't know what he's talking about, right?

TO THE OP:

Do not run multi-weight oil in that old Briggs & Stratton engine. It is designed to run on SAE 30W oil.

--> 30W $2.99 a quart at K-mart every day.

.... and that chart above is off a contemporary Briggs & Stratton website, and may or may not show the same recommendations that they showed for that particular engine, which is at least 30 years old (if not older.)

 

[MShaw]

And the detergent in detergent oil keeps the contaminants in suspension so that they are carried to the oil filter. Without a filter the contaminants get recycled thru the engine with the oil. Better to have them settle to the bottom where they are removed when the oil is drained.

 

[laser3kw]

How can you spread this ******** when there is nothing on the B&S referenced page about it !

???
The B&S page is where the information was derived from?
I will try to dig up the actual source material later to night.

 

[theoldwizard1]

And the detergent in detergent oil keeps the contaminants in suspension so that they are carried to the oil filter. Without a filter the contaminants get recycled thru the engine with the oil.

******** ! Old mechanics tale !

Every small engine manufacture now recommends multi-viscosity "detergent" oils, at least in their newer "newer" engines.

There is no "significant" internal design changes in the current generation small engines and any small engine made after WWII that would "require" non-detergent oil.

 

[theoldwizard1]

???
The b&s page is where the information was derived from?

ABSOLUTELY !


Common people ! Lets use some "common sense" !!

Briggs and Stratton knows that its reputation is base on the thousand of old engines that are still running to today ! If using mult-viscosity and/or modern detergent oil in their older engines would harm them, would they put out the following statement :

If your unit is powered by a Briggs & Stratton engine, please refer to the chart and description below to find the best oil types based on outdoor temperature for engine use:

Small Engine Oil Type Recommendations:

• Use SAE 30 in warmer temperatures of 40° F and higher (5° C and higher)
• Use SAE 10W-30 for a varying temperature range of 0 to 100° F (-18 to 38° C), this grade of oil improves cold weather starting, but may increase oil consumption at 80° F(27° C) or higher
• A synthetic oil SAE 5W-30 is the best for very cold temperatures of -20 to as high as 120° F (-30 to 40° C) providing the best protection at all temperatures as well as improved starting with less oil consumption
• Use SAE 5W-30 for very cold temperatures of 40° F and below (5° C and below)

Things to keep in mind when choosing lawn mower oil:

1. Use a high quality detergent oil classified "For Service SF, SG, SH, SJ" or higher.
2. Do not use special additives.
3. Synthetic oils are an acceptable oil at all temperatures. Use of synthetic oil does not alter required oil change intervals.

 

[MShaw]

******** ! Old mechanics tale

This article from the internet explains the use of detergent / non-detergent oil.

When older engines (prior to 1954) were new, oil filters were an accessory item and non-detergent oil was the type of oil used. Original, unrestored engines have most likely been run on non-detergent oil. If you are running an early unrestored engine that is not spotlessly clean internally, it is imperative to continue to run it on non-detergent oil. Otherwise there is the risk of damage to the engine.

Non-detergent oil was used before oil filters became standard equipment. This type of oil would "stick" contaminants to the sidewalls and valleys of the engine to prevent dirty oil from damaging bearing surfaces. Engines that have been run on non-detergent oil for many years will have a thick "sludge" buildup. Sludge will appear to be oil that has turned to gelatin except that it will be very black with contaminants.

Using detergent oil in an engine that had been running non-detergent oil would allow these contaminants to be released to flow through the engine. This could result in serious damage to the rod, main and cam bearings as well as other engine components such as lifters and plugging of oil lines.

After an engine has been rebuilt or thoroughly cleaned, use straight grade 30 WT or multi-grade 10-30 or 10-40 WT detergent oil to keep the engine clean.

 

[Outlawmws]

 

[four.cycle]

Briggs and Stratton knows that its reputation is base on the thousand of old engines that are still running to today !

Briggs & Stratton Power Products Company is a for-profit business whose primary objective is making money for its stockholders.

Its reputation, as was that of Sears "Craftsman" hand tool line, is based on decades of production of reliable high-quality products.
However, as has Sears done with its "Craftsman" line, Briggs & Stratton has opted to go lighter-cheaper-faster in order to remain competitive in the mass-merchandiser-retailer market (as well as in an attempt to comply with current and forthcoming emission regulations.)
I submit: their new lightweight OHV vertical-shaft engine. A mechanical ************* if ever one was built: plastic recoil mechanism, plastic carburetor.

Here's a dandy of an example:

I've chopped up lots of rocks with older B&S engines, and they didn't wind up like that one.

Let's get the model/type/code numbers off the engine which is the topic of discussion and see if somebody can come up with what the original B&S lubrication recommendations were at the time the engine was manufactured, not from a current-day website.

The original owners manual for my 1955 B&S 5S model says run SAE 20W detergent oil. So am I today supposed to go by what B&S says today on their website?

 

[laser3kw]

www.briggsandstratton.com/how-to-change-oil
As the Briggs link states

Use Briggs & Stratton SAE 30W Oil above 40°F (4°C) for all of our engines.

I'll still stand by my original recommendation -straight 30 weight. And -

multi grade oils are not designed to take the heat load that a air cooled small engine experiences. The oil is actually as much for cooling the motor as it is for lubrication.

And if you want to use 10-30 or such - there is nothing stopping you and Briggs gives some guide lines ( see the chart) if you choose to.

 

[Farmall450]

Looks like the flywheel has a piece of rust trapped and may be hitting the coil. Check compression (remove plug and spin flywheel)

Boom. Or an air-vane governor is grinding...It happens.
Edit: Never mind, I see the governor is fixed.

 

[fiatsam]

Thanks for all the help guys. Got the clutch cleaned out, fresh gas and oil, and it fired up with a nice idle, and no screeching. It does bog down a little and smoke a little more when it starts digging into the dirt, but probably no worse than it did when I was a kid.

 

[laser3kw]

good deal!
I like to see an oldie resurrected to former glory.