They Cut off the foundation J-Bolts?

[D. Patina]

I'm having an enclosed pole barn built. The walls are 2x6 studs placed 24 OC. Some are 24, some more, some less. I find this to be very sloppy, but I'll reserve judgement until I hear from a few of the pros.

The wall was up when I came home and discovered that they cut off 6-8 J-Bolts that were placed in the concrete. The opposing wall is much better and they have all the J-Bolts thru the bottom plate. Few of the nuts are close to the studs, but I think they can make it work. I can see no reason for it other than the measurements are off.

The Foreman is off shift and will meet with me to discuss the issue tomorrow. I'm
In Florida and this is supposed to be rated at 150 MPH. Can't see how this wall will meet that criteria with a 1/3 of the bolts missing.

Any suggestions before I speak with the Foreman

.

 

[D. Patina]

Re: J bolts

Here is another shot of the the wall.

 

[readhead]

Drill and epoxy an anchor rod. Concrete lags. Check and see what the inspector will accept. Are those treated plates?

 

[kd3pc]

If your pics show the current state of the walls, I would simply have them take the unattached wall down and either:

drill out around the current jbolt and attach an appropriate coupler and threaded stud to reattach and then pour epoxy around the hole - IF that meets code with your inspector...

drill and/or epoxy appropriate, approved anchors

ELSE, contact the building inspector and ask HIM what needs to be done to correct the build to meet the windload requirement.

IN builds in my area, We would be extremely close on stud centers, perhaps a 1/4" or less. 24" on center. Any wider spaces (some appear in the pic, not sure if they are door/window openings?) would get another stud at the 24" mark even if the door or window frame was then 6" away. Never wider than the specified centers...It will make sheathing and finishing much tougher to be off.

 

[KRB52]

Let's see, just starting the build and 1) they cut off some of the J-bolts that are supposed to hold the structure to the ground, 2) they are using the "more or less" method of laying out the studs. I would let who ever is in charge of that company (not the foreman, someone higher up) know that should this type of "workmanship" continue, their pay will be "less" and their liability to pay for corrections will be "more." Make it clear that either they build it right, or you will hire someone who can.

 

[Rookie2]

In 150 MPH wind ,the only thing that will be left is The Plate ! There will be no building. IMO

 

[DougWil]

I am surprised you are allowed to build a pole building with that wind load.
Pulling the posts out to the ground is the only thing keeping it from overturning since it doesn't have any footing weight.

And they will eventually rot off.

 

[csp]

Bottom plate attached to foundation with studs, that's stick framing not a pole building.

 

[Strouty]

Silly question, but is there a barrier between the concrete and the sill? Is the sill pressure treated?

 

[DougWil]

Bottom plate attached to foundation with studs, that's stick framing not a pole building.

OP called it a "pole garage", but you are right it doesn't appear to have poles.

 

[ZRX61]

Is that sill plate just a regular 2x6? doesn't look to be PT etc.

 

[CTyankee]

Think KRB covered most of my thoughts. Another question though...Not use to seeing only a single sill plate, especially on a slab. Is this the norm for most building in your area?

 

[JCQuick]

I'm in Fla and first that does not look like PT wood on the concrete that's a big no no in Fla. 2nd I had 2 pieces of rebar that were in the wrong spot (mine was for a concrete wall) and they just cut it off and epoxyed it where it needed to be. Either that or redhead them in should make the inspector happy

 

[CNGsaves]

Let's see, just starting the build and 1) they cut off some of the J-bolts that are supposed to hold the structure to the ground, 2) they are using the "more or less" method of laying out the studs. I would let who ever is in charge of that company (not the foreman, someone higher up) know that should this type of "workmanship" continue, their pay will be "less" and their liability to pay for corrections will be "more." Make it clear that either they build it right, or you will hire someone who can.

^ ^ ^ This. Sure seems like "building crew" is learning as they go !!

OP . . . . are they ones calling it "Enclosed Pole Garage" . . or did you make that up ??

 

[Roberts210]

Refuse to pay them, fire them tomorrow, tear out what they've done and hire someone who knows what they are doing, cause it will only get worse from here on up. And your bottom plate should be treated lumber.

 

[RayBob58]

Bottom plate should be treated. Stop the work until it's sorted out.

 

[quick60]

If your studs are not on center then when you go to sheet the outside and or inside the sheets will not line up properly and you will have to add studs to fit. Like has been said fire them now, if they can't get a basic frame laid out properly I'd hate to see what the rest of the build is going to look like.

Also I'd be concerned with drilling into green concrete on the edge. Havn't done concrete work in many years and may be wrong but I'd expect a blowout if you drill it.

 

[jevoy]

Im assuming they had some difficulty raising the walls and getting them to fit down on top of the j bolts. I know people install sleeve anchors after standing the walls to avoid fighting with lining the holes up. It can be difficult. Still very sloppy work. What is the wall height were the j bolts were cut?

 

[Dhagan887]

I had a long post written up, but decided to hold judgement until I saw more pictures. I've never seen a clusterfurck 1/2 pole building, half stick built building minus foundation built in my life, and build is what I do for a living. Is this thing permitted?

 

[slip knot]

Either they cant read a tape or they are working without plans. Jbolts are spaced so they wont land out on a stud. I'd have some serious reservatons going forward with these guys. Call and talk with the owner/manager of the construction company and let him know that the work is unacceptable. If he squabbles, fire him. and start over. Get code enforcement involved and let the contractor know you will take them to court if it aint corrected. You will be stuck with this **** from now on. either correct it now or deal with it later.

 

[CNGsaves]

Will this be insulated ??

Half-*** misplaced studs that aren't laid out properly 24" OC will play hell with trying to insulate.

Will this "Enclosed Pole Garage" be sheeted (outside or inside . . ) . .
. . . . you know, since it's likely NOT going to be a Pole Garage !!
. . . . then the stud spacing NEEDS to be spot on.

Gotta ask, what greenhorn crew can't get 24" OC stud layout right ??

x3 to shut 'er down . . . tear it out. Git crew dat knows what ta' hell der' doin' !!!

 

[DougWil]

Well assuming it is a conventional monolithic slab and not a pole building.....

Drill and epoxy is supposed to be done in 30 day cured concrete, not fresh.
The code requires "special inspection", hopefully the inspector will let that slide.

Bigger concern for a 150mph wind load, I don't see any embedded concrete nailing straps at the wall ends to resist overturning forces.

Are there any?
Because J bolts alone won't hold that wall down with that kind of wind load.

These type of things.

 

[matt_i]

As above, it would be best to fire these guys and hire some guys who know what they are doing. Cutting off anchor bolts would only be where there's a severe interference. While I would make them epoxy anchor them back (once the walls have been torn down, PT bottom plate installed, and the correct stud centers placed back) I would want to be right there to make sure they brush out the drilled holes, blow them out with compressed air, and coat the rods thoroughly enough with epoxy. In other words, do a crappy job of prepping epoxy anchors and they are just as useless. I would not accept wedge anchors near the edge of the slab under any considerations, due to the propensity to crack a chunk out and then be useless.

One pays 5-10x for an epoxy anchor more than a L-bolt set in wet concrete. So there's enough incentive there to do it right the first time.

Likely your general contractor is going to argue "its Ok we do it all the time" or some old saw basically an excuse for covering up shoddy work. That's a sure sign they will do more of the same.

 

[Roberts210]

I really disagree about calling the owner. If the owner gave a flyin' farook, he would know what his workers are up to. If the owner is that careless about what his crew is doing he'll BS you into allowing him to continue and you WILL ONLY BE SORRY WHEN IT'S DONE. Fire. Him. Tomorrow. And refuse to pay.

 

[ddawg16]

Let me guess.....lowest bid?

I bet the j-bolts were placed based on 16" OC and they thought they could save some money going 24" OC.

Bottom plate has to be PT (Pressure Treated)

I'm not a fan of 24" OC. It makes nailing your shear wall a PIA. If you think it looks ugly now, wait until they start nailing your OSB onto the walls.

As others have said....stop....

 

[Dhagan887]

Well assuming it is a conventional monolithic slab and not a pole building.....

I kept trying to think that myself.

But there a 5 posts visible in the pics. And at least a 6th one can be inferred. None would make sense on a building with a foundation.

I think nobody involved (including op) has a clue what's going on. Which is why I seriously doubt there is a plan or a permit, or anybody involved who has used one.

 

[DougWil]

I kept trying to think that myself.

But there a 5 posts visible in the pics. And at least a 6th one can be inferred. None would make sense on a building with a foundation.

I think nobody involved (including op) has a clue what's going on. Which is why I seriously doubt there is a plan or a permit, or anybody involved who has used one.

I opened the pics in a new tab and zoomed in.
You are right, there are poles..
But counting stud spacing by 24" it looks like 38 feet between poles on the load bearing walls.

Now starting to think this is some kind of hybrid. Poles at 4 corners, 1 midway at each endwall = 6 posts on a 24'? x38' building.
So the plan must be to have the studwalls support conventional trusses.

Which makes me wonder why have poles at all???

 

[CNGsaves]

^ ^ ^ All the more telling that this is a cluster fawk !!!

 

[59 wagon man]

do you have an approved set of drawings or is this something you are just winging? by the time you finish the grade you will be above the slab almost not a great idea in fla. heck even 2x6 on 24" centers cant have all that much strength in a 150mph wind load

 

[rayra]

Bottom plate attached to foundation with studs, that's stick framing not a pole building.

This.

As the rest that's quality of workmanship and I'd halt work and demand an on-site review / meeting with the foreman and the owner. That kind of sloppy work isn't acceptable to me and shouldn't be to the OP. They should be building it like they own it, not building it to see what they can get away with.

A 1/2" either way on the stud placement doesn't matter, as long as the skin is attached correctly. Be better if it was right on 24" but it can be compensated for. And that sloppy crew was counting on that. Which again means it's unsat because when all their sloppy errors stack up, somethign won't be where it should.

 

[rayra]

oh and OP DO NOT allow them to just drill and insert new wedge-type anchor bolts. Not until that slab concrete has cured for a LONG time. They do it while it's fresh it will split that curb.

 

[Bib Overalls]

You didn't by chance hire my brother in law?

 

[Jason280]

I didn't know anyone still built on 24" centers...

 

[southalabama]

I can't tell from the pics if the seal is treated. Treated wood comes in a variety of shades. If not treated. Start over with a new crew.

I'd get the inspector over ASAP.

I'm in alabama just across the line. Florida has strict code provisions.

Nip it in the bud now. It's just gonna get worse.

 

[hh76]

Where did you measure the 24 spacing? At the base, or midway up the bare studs?

Are they planning on using other anchors in place of the cut off j bolts?

 

[jevoy]

Some building codes call for a treated sill plate or also accept a foam sill gasket as well.

 

[Just Primer]

Refuse to pay them, fire them tomorrow, tear out what they've done and hire someone who knows what they are doing, cause it will only get worse from here on up. And your bottom plate should be treated lumber.

I hate to say it but he's right. I have very rarely seen these things turn around. I am a Contractor of just stucco and painting, but when my neighbors or customers of mine have had problems with roofers etc.. I have only seen this get worse. The owner is probably in a jam and he's letting people he barely knows do his work without any regard for his reputation.

 

[APEowner]

I'd really like to see the plans on this building. The most charitable explanation is that it's structurally a pole barn with additional framing to support the sheathing. If that's the case it's possible that the building is constructed mostly to spec. I don't really think that's the case but...

 

[LB-1911]

I'd really like to see the plans on this building. The most charitable explanation is that it's structurally a pole barn with additional framing to support the sheathing. If that's the case it's possible that the building is constructed mostly to spec. I don't really think that's the case but...

either

03-13-2016

I'm having a 30 X 36 X 12 enclosed pole barn with two 10 X 10 doors and one 16 X 10 door built. Has vented Eve's and a man door. $25k. This included 6 truckloads of dirt to build up foundation. Concrete is 4" 300 psi with two 4x4 pads 6" thick.

3/15/16

I'm having an enclosed pole barn built. The walls are 2x6 studs placed 24 OC. Some are 24, some more, some less. I find this to be very sloppy, but I'll reserve judgement until I hear from a few of the pros.

The wall was up when I came home and discovered that they cut off 6-8 J-Bolts that were placed in the concrete. The opposing wall is much better and they have all the J-Bolts thru the bottom plate. Few of the nuts are close to the studs, but I think they can make it work. I can see no reason for it other than the measurements are off.

The Foreman is off shift and will meet with me to discuss the issue tomorrow. I'm
In Florida and this is supposed to be rated at 150 MPH. Can't see how this wall will meet that criteria with a 1/3 of the bolts missing.

Any suggestions before I speak with the Foreman

.

Last edited by D. Patina; 3/16/16 at 04:37 AM.

 

[pstnbly]

Do any of them speak English? That's horrific! As soon as they cut the bolts on one of my jobs they'd be gone. No double bottom plate? No termite shield? In Florida? The whole building would be framed in PT if it were mine. That close to grade the termites will be in that before it's finished