28 x 28 build: Garage/Hobby Workshop

[TwinCharged RX-7]

Hi all, I'm starting a garage build in northern NJ. I will be replacing an existing "single" car garage, which is really more of a falling down shed with no power and a dirt floor.

The new garage will be a 2 story, 2 car garage. I need to request a variance, as the current zoning limits an accessory building to 10% of the lot, and a 28x28 garage puts it at 13%. I will also need a height variance, as its currently limited to 15' and I need 25'. So this could very well stall out, but I'm getting the process rolling now.

I'd like to get the variance to allow me to have an apartment above the garage (I'm aware of the fire protection issues), but that may not pass through.

Use will be for hobby work on cars. A 94' RX7 and a 37' Pontiac DeLuxe Six

Here is a drawing:

Here is a rough layout property (corner lot) (driveway really isn't usable due to a fence being up against it which makes it so you can't make the turn into the shed)


Proposed


I still have a lot to do in terms of figuring out plans for utility connections (from house to garage or adding new direct to the garage).

 

[nadogail]

Let us know when your permit is approved. Some members will be very interested in the process in your area.

 

[Cyberbear]

I certainly wish you lots of luck on your variance because the new structure looks great and I wouldn't mind having something like that myself. I've read that the building codes on the East coast are stringent, especially in NJ.
When I once worked for a remodeling contractor, we were usually able to receive any variance we needed as long as it was not for something too unusual. The county always likes the permit fees and the property tax hike after completion.

 

[Onewolf]

Are there side/rear setback requirements? We had 10ft side and 30ft rear setback requirements for our detached garage. But no 'size' limitation as a percentage of the lot size.

 

[carotene]

Are you sure the 15' height limitation is to the roof peak? Many jurisdictions, including mine, specify max height as the mean height of the gables as measured from eaves to peak.

 

[PKashub]

I am in Oregon, so it may not apply. I built a two story garage, that exceeds the 15ft height, similar to yours, but barn roof upstairs. I got around this height restrictions by building in a 20ft breezeway (roof) and connected it to the house. Now, garage is part of the house, considered attached, no height issues. I cannot have a kitchen range upstairs however. The upstairs is still unfinished.


iPad Tapatalk

 

[PKashub]

Oh, and my jurisdiction measures height to half-way of the roof as well.



iPad Tapatalk

 

[MacTexas]

The permitting process would be of interest. You didn't mention HOA rules so at least you don't have that restriction.

 

[TwinCharged RX-7]

Well, it has been a while, but getting this going now.

I'm trying to finish up the permit application, but trying to spend as little as possible before getting a variance approved. I'll submit as much detail as I can without having actual plans on the major items (building, foundation, etc...) and hope they let me go for the variance and then do the more detailed work after. Worst they can say is no, but if they do that then I have to spend more up front.

I'm thinking out the foundation now. I'd like to do a footer, then stem wall, and then poor the slab.

Any advice on how to plan the foundation? The property is on a slight hill. I know the footer needs to be below the frost line. I want a stem wall instead of brick to avoid any water issues.

Here is a pic of the layout, my house on the left, existing "garage" on the right, you can see the neighbor's house behind (I live on the corner lot).



You can see the old driveway carved into and up to the rear of the house. That will be removed and will then be leveled off. The new and wider (usable) driveway will go to the right of the tree.

My goal is to carve into lot with just enough slope to drain to the street. This would then put the slab about 2 to 3 feet below current grade depending on if you are at the low or high end of the lawn. This means i'll need a small retaining wall on the right hand side of the driveway (edge of the lot).

Any tips on how to plan this out, or should I just call a foundation company and have them do it. Will the plan it out for free in an attempt to provide a quote and bid on the job? Just trying to pay as little as possible before having the variance approved.

I've also been watch some other builds. I don't always see a drain (PVC pipe around the outside perimeter) around the foundation. How do you know if you need this?

 

[NUTTSGT]

While you're checking into everything like your variances, you might want to check on a curb cut since you are moving the driveway.

 

[CharlieM]

Your neighbors electric/cable/phone drops might need to be moved. They cross your property which you have in your favor. Might get a freebee.

 

[tomroblee]

It looks like a great plan and I wish you well. I just want to toss out a few more points.

Variance approval generally means no objections from the immediate neighbors as well as the zoning authority. A "sales job" to your neighbors before you apply for the variance might be wise.

Do you know where your lot line is in relation to the street and sidewalk? In my area the sidewalk is generally located on the street right-of-way. Utilities are often buried in the narrow strip of ground between the street and sidewalk. Getting the OK for a new curb cut and/or putting a new driveway over existing utility lines can be another obstacle. The blue (water) and yellow (gas) paint stripes on the street suggest that utility services MAY be located under your new driveway.

It looks like a tree may be in the way of the new drive. This can be more of a problem if the tree is located on the right-of-way and/or if your city has tree hugger ordinances .

Describing the second floor of your new building as an "apartment" sounds like you are wanting to put a second dwelling on your lot. This could be a major issue with the city and/or neighbors. A description other than "apartment" might be an easier sell if it is appropriate.

Does your jurisdiction count the outside stairway as part of the square footage of the building?

 

[TwinCharged RX-7]

It looks like a great plan and I wish you well. I just want to toss out a few more points.

Variance approval generally means no objections from the immediate neighbors as well as the zoning authority. A "sales job" to your neighbors before you apply for the variance might be wise.

Do you know where your lot line is in relation to the street and sidewalk? In my area the sidewalk is generally located on the street right-of-way. Utilities are often buried in the narrow strip of ground between the street and sidewalk. Getting the OK for a new curb cut and/or putting a new driveway over existing utility lines can be another obstacle. The blue (water) and yellow (gas) paint stripes on the street suggest that utility services MAY be located under your new driveway.

It looks like a tree may be in the way of the new drive. This can be more of a problem if the tree is located on the right-of-way and/or if your city has tree hugger ordinances .

Describing the second floor of your new building as an "apartment" sounds like you are wanting to put a second dwelling on your lot. This could be a major issue with the city and/or neighbors. A description other than "apartment" might be an easier sell if it is appropriate.

Does your jurisdiction count the outside stairway as part of the square footage of the building?

Thanks, lots of good thoughts.
1. Yes, the town told me once I submit for the permit, they will review and notify me of which variances I need. Once I have that, then I can go get signatures from the neighbors. I don't think it will be a problem (it could be), but I bought the house as a complete dump, and it was the ugliest house on the block. I remodeled everything, but until last year it was still ugly, then we did the siding and now people walk buy and say thank for making it look good. The neighbors to the right now joke that the old garage looks ugly and I need to fix it, but all they know I have big plans underway and should bei ok.

2. Spot on regarding the utilities. The town/utility just went around about 10 blocks and spray painted all utilities on the streets and through the sidewalks. I'm not sure what they plan to do, but last summer they cut a trench down the entire length of the road to replace the main gas line. The water is right where my driveway will be, but I see a few other driveways around and you can see the water access cap flush right in the driveway, so I'm hoping I can do the same. Those are actually not my utilities, and they don't go to my neighbors, so I'm not sure if my house was supposed to be a double lot? My utilities come from the other street.

3. I'm a little worried about the tree too. On the other side of the driveway, just cut off by the picture is the utility pole. I was hoping I could squeeze between, but not sure yet.

4. I'm definitely looking to be re-zoned as multi-family so I can have a true apartment. My mother in-law needs to move in, and my only other option is to dig down the basement floor so I can finish it as decent living space. I'd much rather just build above the garage so I don't have to mess with the house any more. I know this could be tough, so if that part doesn't work, then this will turn into a garage with attic trusses for storage

Your neighbors electric/cable/phone drops might need to be moved. They cross your property which you have in your favor. Might get a freebee.

Thanks, didn't even notice that

While you're checking into everything like your variances, you might want to check on a curb cut since you are moving the driveway.

Agreed, they will make me pull a special permit just for that. I've heard that it won't be a big deal as I'm not taking away street parking spots, because I'll be giving back the slot from the existing driveway. Also, I'll be including a letter that state's I'll actually adding street parking because I'll park my 2 daily driving cars in the driveway instead of the street like I do now.

 

[TwinCharged RX-7]

Here are my first drafts at electrical and plumbing. I'll also post this in the dedicated forum section but open to any thoughts.

I may change the layout of the bathroom on the 2nd floor to make it easier to plumb, still trying to think it through in terms of where the stack would drop down and I want as little as possible running through the joists as its in the middle of the span, so maybe the toilet needs to be where the bath tub is so the drain doesn't need to move through any joists.

1st floor electrical


2nd floor electrical


2nd floor plumbing (1st floor may just have a utility sink)

 

[slidehammer]

Have you considered eliminating the center column and going for a single garage door opening? It's very nice to have a wide opening when doing projects.

You're already on the hook for a hurky beam atop your shearwalls or a big moment frame anyway.

 

[TwinCharged RX-7]

I like to single doors. 9' wide each. This way the entire garage isn't opened every time a car comes in. One bay will be the project and the other will be used more often.

 

[jbwilkins]

You may be required to install 4 smoke detectors upstairs....One in each bedroom, one immediately outside each bedroom (in the alcove) and then one in the living.....Depends on how your inspector interprets the code...

Don't forget you need ventilation in the bath and in laundry...bath should be a requirement, laundry maybe not (again depends on how the code is interpreted).....

 

[jbwilkins]

BTW....4-220v-50A circuits plus all the other 110v outlets (I don't seen any AC/heat either) means you're probably into a 300amp panel (expensive over a 200-225) or at least a 225 and a sub panel......

Maybe you don't need 50 at the dryer or range (most dryers are 30 amp I believe and ranges are 40-50 amp).....would save you some money.....

Again, I don't know how you're local code is, but in some jurisdictions, once submitted you have to build it per plan or submit for a revision......

 

[tomroblee]

It sound like you have a lot of hurdles to jump before you get final approval.

It looks like you are in an older neighborhood. My previous home was in a 1920's neighborhood. There were quite a few corner lots that were subdivided during the depression. A smaller home was build in the part of the back yard that had been divided from the main lot (much like you are planning to do with your garage/apartment.) That might explain what appear to be marked utility services that lead nowhere.

Are you intending to have separate utility services for your garage/apartment, or will you try and branch off the services to your house? Have you considered how and where they will be located?

I don't see anything in your plans for HVAC or water heater. With the space limitation, it would seem to be a good candidate for a tankless water heater (located in the garage?) and mini split heat pump. A stacked washer and dryer could also save a couple of square feet.

While you are in the thinking phase of the project, have you learned exactly how the zoning calculates square footage for their limitations? The apartment sure would be nicer if you could cantilever the second floor out a foot or two (sort of like a garrison colonial.)

Moving big stuff in and out of the apartment is going to be fun. Just consider using the widest stairs and doors that you can.

Outside stairs aren't a joy---especially as a person ages. You might want to consider designing them in a manner that they could be closed in at some later date. Having a little bit bigger landing at the top of the stairs that could serve as a bit of a balcony could be a nice touch (if your mother in law goes for that sort of thing.)

The internet has all sorts of floor plans for apartments. Some seem to minimize the plumbing runs. I've attached a link to an example.

http://cdn.home-designing.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Bright-and-Cheerful-Two-Bedroom-600x394.jpg

 

[nadogail]

You might be able to sell the idea of a "mother in law" suite easier than an apartment.
The difference between the two would be the utilities would be a part of and combined with your residence (as opposed to separate meters) and there would not be a true kitchen in the unit, a wet bar, but no cook stove.

After the final inspection you might bootleg an electric stove in.

 

[My Old Tools]

You might want to consider a two stage approach. Get the garage and upstairs "unfinished storage" approved and built first.

 

[DougWil]

I've also been watch some other builds. I don't always see a drain (PVC pipe around the outside perimeter) around the foundation. How do you know if you need this?

Most builders give little consideration to water runoff and drainage.
There is a huge industry in correcting the problems caused by doing so.

The main considerations are how much rain, snow melt do you get and what type of soil and how deep does that soil type go.

I once lived in an rainy area with 10' deep clay, adobe type soil.
The soil expanded with water creating unequal forces under footings and heaving. More water and the soil turned into a very soft gooey mess, and footings sank.

Roof runoff and perimeter drain systems, usually pumped to the street, not planting water loving plants up against the house, sloped grades, etc,, were the only way to reduce the problems on existing buildings.

Drilled piers below the footing 8-10ft deep was the best solution on a new build.

Short version, do other owners have problems with water runoff?
And maybe contact a local soils engineer. He would probably know the area's soil w/o a site visit, testing and history of problems.

 

[TwinCharged RX-7]

You may be required to install 4 smoke detectors upstairs....One in each bedroom, one immediately outside each bedroom (in the alcove) and then one in the living.....Depends on how your inspector interprets the code...

Don't forget you need ventilation in the bath and in laundry...bath should be a requirement, laundry maybe not (again depends on how the code is interpreted).....

Thanks, didn't know that about the fire alarm, I'll add another. And yes, I forgot to add the ventilation, I'll do that tonight. Great catch.

BTW....4-220v-50A circuits plus all the other 110v outlets (I don't seen any AC/heat either) means you're probably into a 300amp panel (expensive over a 200-225) or at least a 225 and a sub panel......

Maybe you don't need 50 at the dryer or range (most dryers are 30 amp I believe and ranges are 40-50 amp).....would save you some money.

Thanks, yes, I was being lazy just making them all 50 amp on the sheet, but yes, I should change it to 30 amp, that's how I wired the house and it was in line with the code.

It looks like you are in an older neighborhood. My previous home was in a 1920's neighborhood. There were quite a few corner lots that were subdivided during the depression. A smaller home was build in the part of the back yard that had been divided from the main lot (much like you are planning to do with your garage/apartment.) That might explain what appear to be marked utility services that lead nowhere.

Yes, the house was built in 1925.

Are you intending to have separate utility services for your garage/apartment, or will you try and branch off the services to your house? Have you considered how and where they will be located?

Well, that's still a little up in the air. I've been researching, and see that I probably can't tap into the meter on the house which is currently 200 amps (upgraded from 100 amps just last summer). If separate service, then I have to pay commercial rates, which I'd rather avoid, but may end up doing.

The utilities enter my house on the other street, and are in the corner of the house, if you look at the picture earlier, it would be on the left hand corner of the house (orientation being right hand corner is against the existing driveway, so left hand corner is further to the left). I'd love to just dig the trench across the yard, pass through where the current driveway is and into the garage, but need to have someone come take a look.

I don't see anything in your plans for HVAC or water heater. With the space limitation, it would seem to be a good candidate for a tankless water heater (located in the garage?) and mini split heat pump. A stacked washer and dryer could also save a couple of square feet.

Yes, I'll be going with a stacked washer and dryer. I'm still thinking about the hot water heater, can easily go in the garage, or in the laundry room (if code allows). Would definitely be on demand, but still need to work out the gas plumbing for the building.

Regarding HVAC, I'm just now starting to research what would be best. At first I was wanting to avoid running gas plumbing, but it looks like it probably makes the most sense in the long run. Mini splits seem like the right way to go, but I need to learn more (cost, location, capability, etc...).

While you are in the thinking phase of the project, have you learned exactly how the zoning calculates square footage for their limitations? The apartment sure would be nicer if you could cantilever the second floor out a foot or two (sort of like a garrison colonial.)

I'm pretty much at the limit without needing a variance on % of the lot used based on 1st floor square footage. But still need to double check the overall calculation.

You might be able to sell the idea of a "mother in law" suite easier than an apartment.
The difference between the two would be the utilities would be a part of and combined with your residence (as opposed to separate meters) and there would not be a true kitchen in the unit, a wet bar, but no cook stove.

After the final inspection you might bootleg an electric stove in.

Great advice. I'll give that a try, but again, not sure on utilities being able to be combined or not yet. That's part of my thoughts in making this an easier sell to the zoning board as well.


Thanks again for all the thoughts. I'm hoping I can get this through and am giving it my best shot. If I end up not getting the variance, then I'd likely do something a little smaller with the same foot print. And use the money saved to escavate the basement down and finish it instead. Would much prefer the garage route though.

 

[tomroblee]

I imagine that I'm overstaying my welcome on this thread, but I'm a geezer with too much time on his hands.

You need to give some more serious consideration to your utilities---both for your existing house and the garage. My previous neighborhood was also 1920's. Water services started developing leaks about 20 years ago. Ours was replaced about 15 years ago, and I think that the cost was several thousand dollars. The old clay tile sewer lines in the neighborhood started reaching the end of their lives about 10 years ago (helped by tree roots). As I recall, the replacement cost was generally in the $20,000 range.

Water and sewer lines are obviously buried rather deep, and I imagine that it would be a real problem to dig deep enough trenches along side of your house to get to your new garage. If the water and sewer lines serving your house date to the 1920's, you might want to at least consider how you might upgrade/reroute these as part of your project.

Gas lines are generally much less of an issue since they are buried much shallower. It's quite possible that you have adequate gas to supply your new garage/apartment. The gas lines probably were sized for a huge furnace that was necessary before your house had insulation and storm windows.

As a back-up plan (in case you can't get a variance for a full second story), you might consider a garage with an attic that was "attached" to your house with a breezeway that had an attic over it. I'm thinking of something like the attached link----but obviously the roof line would have to be modified in some manner to fit in with your house. I'm assuming that such a thing could be built in a manner that would classify it as an addition to the house ---even if no connecting door was installed.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP...51ffefo0&w=300&h=210&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0

 

[TwinCharged RX-7]

Thanks, and not overstaying at all, I'm looking for all the help I can get. Post as much as you want, I can always just ignore it haha.

I will definitely take a look at the current infrastructure. I'm sure the sewer is still the old clay pipe. And the water and utilities are all being looked at, which is why the whole down has blue and yellow lines painted all over the roads. It's strange, last fall they repaved about 10 cross streets, but left mine because it's concrete. I hear that they are planning to do it this year. I'm hoping that means many of the lines are being upgraded before they pave. They spent about 2 months doing the main gas line (you can see the dark strive of pavement running down the road in the picture on page 1). It goes the entire mile of road.

Regarding the back up plan, I've thought about it being an "attached" structure, and have seen a few. Just not sure how to go about getting what I really want the first time, being denied and then have them clearly see what I'm trying to achieve with the back up plan. It's like I have to commit but how much do I commit to without risking not getting what I want.

I've decided to go big the first time, and scale back in increments until I end up with something. We'll see how it turns out.

 

[MrBalll]

I think you have more electrical outlets upstairs than I do in my entire residence.
Looks like a lot of startup work, but if all the permits go through you will have yourself one very nice setup to work with. Good luck with it all.

 

[TwinCharged RX-7]

Thanks, appreciate it.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Here are my first drafts at electrical and plumbing. I'll also post this in the dedicated forum section but open to any thoughts.


2nd floor plumbing (1st floor may just have a utility sink)

You may want to consider flipping the kitchen area....fridge/sink area. If you flip it, that's less plumbing supply you have to run, less drain pipe also. If the sink is closer, you may be able to tie all into one vent also. I don't know for sure what code is, but I'm the guys here are knowledgeable enough that someone should be able to give you the correct answer.

 

[jbwilkins]

Mini split may/may not be a good solution.....the units I know of are 100% electric....so good if you don't run gas to the garage, but if you're putting in a tankless WH you'll have to have gas......

Mini splits are nice, but tend to be pricey when installed in a house (in an apartment, they may be cost effective)....tankless WH are much more expensive than tanked....~$350 vs ~$700 in my part of the world....(equipment only)

Didn't notice what your budget was........

 

[tomroblee]

Mini split isn't cheap, but it does avoid the need for a furnace/air handler and ductwork. Having a HVAC system in the attic may not be the best thing for a mother-in-law apartment. Having it in the garage also has its drawbacks.

Tankless water heaters don't take up much room. A garage location might be good in case it started to leak or needed periodic service. One thing to consider is that tankless heaters don't like hard water. A water softener would take up even more room (if it was needed/wanted.)

 

[TwinCharged RX-7]

Tankless for sure. Possibly mounted where the laundry is on the second floor.

Any idea what type of mini split would be needed to cover the full building, would I need multiple units.

 

[TwinCharged RX-7]

Just decided on doing 6" recessed cans with LEDs on the first floor instead of the t8 fixtures. I'll redraw the layout and repost.

This is mostly aesthetic reasons, I like how they look better, they put off plenty of light if placed properly. I don't think the cost difference is that much. When I remodeled my house, I used nothing but led recessed lights for each room and I love them.