Tools of Japan

[Qualitytools]

Very nice Superautobacs, really enjoy the vids Thanks!

 

[hautpot]

Hello, Anyone got an opinions on the Lobster Slip joint pliers?

 

[superautobacs]

Thanks guys.












Hautpot,

Are you talking about one of these patented pliers?

I've got one (Part No. TG200NA). I haven't used them all that much, but I can't fault anything on it so far.

 

[paulsomlo]

Are you talking about one of these patented pliers?

Those look like a slip joint version of the PZ-58 Engineer pliers, yes?

 

[BMack37]

Engineer makes a slip-joint pair as well, the PZ-56

 

[superautobacs]

True, it's like the PZ-56, but the TG200NA has additional features to make it more versatile, such as:


--near the joint, there's a built-in cutting edge

--uses flush pivot joint construction (recently, the American plier maker, Wilde, came up with a similar idea called Flush Fastener pliers)

--their jaw profile provides a more secure grip (additional contact point) on flat and round pieces than a conventional jaw profile (German plier maker, Knipex, recently released a needle nose combination plier with a similar idea)

 

[Fedwrench]

Thanks for sharing the videos of tools that I haven't seen before but, now want to spend snap on money or more to get

That Nepros 1/4 drive flex head ratchet with the pressure pad to prevent head flop and the hollowed out handle is an over engineered badass ratchet

 

[superautobacs]

Thanks for sharing the videos of tools that I haven't seen before but, now want to spend snap on money or more to get

That Nepros 1/4 drive flex head ratchet with the pressure pad to prevent head flop and the hollowed out handle is an over engineered badass ratchet

You're welcome. If Monte fulfills the desire for European tool purchases, then I guess I'll fill in the gap for Japanese tool purchases.
















I got to use my Engineer terminal crimping pliers during the week (I performed 20 crimps). I have a made in USA (don't know who's the OEM) MAC pliers that I've used many times to make a comparison.

Despite the shorter length of the Engineer plier, the pivot point is closer to the die area than the MAC version, so there's little difference in hand pressure that's required to perform the crimp.

The thickness of the Engineer die area is slightly thinner, making it a bit more critical in making sure to place the terminal perfectly before making the crimp.

The spring loaded feature is great. I will use my (stiff-jointed, not so user-friendly) MAC only for the occasional larger sizes that the Engineer can't do.

 

[hautpot]

YES thats the lobster i was talking about!

I have the engineer slip joint but i am dis-satisfied with it.

 

[superautobacs]

Curious minds want to know more....do tell about your experience with those pliers.





somewhat OT but...
Sometimes I think I come out as being a complete Japanese-tool snob that has nothing bad to say about them and cares little for American or European tool brands. So far, I haven't had very many poor experiences, and when I did, I think I did point them out in the past somewhere, either here or on the TFTOW thread.

Anyhow, back on topic. What was up with your pliers?

 

[BMack37]

YES thats the lobster i was talking about!

I have the engineer slip joint but i am dis-satisfied with it.

Why is that? I've been considering picking those up.

 

[hautpot]

The Engineer's are considerably shorter which equates to less leverage. It cannot grab on to really hard screws that good. The grip is about 2.5mm (.100") slimmer than a Snap-on at 14.5mm (.570") versus 17mm (.670") width.

I struggle to use all my force to grip, maybe im the wimp?

 

[superautobacs]

If you're concerned about leverage/length, of all the brands that I know of, I think it comes down to these three brands (Lobster, Engineer, and 3-Peaks):

Lengths:
Engineer PZ59 = 200mm
3-Peaks DS-215TZ = 215mm
3-Peaks DS-200 = 210mm (this is a locking plier type (first picture below is the shorter DS-130))
Lobster TG200NA = 200mm

Grip width:
Engineer XP = 15mm
Engineer PZ59 = 19mm
others unknown....I can tell you that the grip width on the Lobster is pretty standard.

Hardness:
Engineer PZ59 = 60 +/-2 HRC
3-Peaks DS-215TZ = 50-58 HRC
3-Peaks DS-200 = 42-48 HRC
Lobster not known









Check out 3-Peaks' catalogue page 17 for more specs:
http://www.3peaks.co.jp/product/pdf/setsudan.pdf

For the PZ59 specs, check out:
http://www.engineer.jp/products/nipper/np04/nejisaurus_06/pz-59_nejisaurusrx


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Jhs_6xoI38I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>




FWIW, I wrote a bit about Engineer, 3-Peaks and Lobster screw-grabbing pliers back in 2011 (Here's the link to the post: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1893869&postcount=224)




Another alternative, if you can find one NOS or used, is the Snap-on 612AEP (no longer made):

[I just found these images that I downloaded more than 5 years ago, this morning on my computer]



Long handle for leverage and pistol grip for good ergonomics:

Look at the jaw profile:

Having said all this, if you're dealing with really stubborn screws and the hand force you apply to the pliers isn't adequate (just slips), its time to bring out the hand impact, or other specialty tools (extractors).

 

[superautobacs]

It didn't take long before the shrink wrap on the stubby ANEX trim clip removers were damaged. It probably happened while removing some pesky harness holding clips inside a car door.

And photo comparison with a more conventional size:

 

[rice rocket]

You can probably replace those pretty easily w/ some heat shrink.

 

[superautobacs]

I think so too. Thankfully I don't have crazy OCD wanting to replace it with a ANEX original (yes, they sell replacements).

 

[BMack37]

The Engineer's are considerably shorter which equates to less leverage. It cannot grab on to really hard screws that good. The grip is about 2.5mm (.100") slimmer than a Snap-on at 14.5mm (.570") versus 17mm (.670") width.

I struggle to use all my force to grip, maybe im the wimp?

Thanks, between that and the posts following I think I may go for the Lobsters instead. I do like the standard Engineer pliers but slip-joint adds additional versatility.

It didn't take long before the shrink wrap on the stubby ANEX trim clip removers were damaged. It probably happened while removing some pesky harness holding clips inside a car door.


And photo comparison with a more conventional size:

Better that than the paint! I'd buy some 3:1(When it shrinks to near it's limit it's thicker than 2:1) heat shrink for those tools specifically. Either that or go cheap and just use electrical tape. Looks like a great little tool!

 

[north]

I think so too. Thankfully I don't have crazy OCD wanting to replace it with a ANEX original (yes, they sell replacements).

Would make for a cool video though.

 

[superautobacs]

Most excellent idea, North! It will require my utmost concentration, so I won't be talking through the steps....
pure silence....
just me applying the shrink wrap in HD footage. It's gonna go viral for sure.



















Some tools in action...

My Ko-ken multi-purpose ratchet in action....used in the process of removing an O2 sensor in a really confined engine space (nearly blind location).

For sparkplug removal....

Using my go-to locking extension with free-spinning sleeve (Wera), FPC locking universal, and Ko-ken sparkplug socket.

 

[north]

On second thought, such a video would probably break the internet. Best leave it alone.

Tell us more about the FPC locking universal.

 

[superautobacs]

One of their interesting product line from FPC has been their locking and retension accessories. I don't know for how long they've been in the market but I purchased my FPC tools 6 years ago or so).

I only have three tools from them. The universal (already pictured), a 3/8 drive locking extension and a 3/8 drive wobble extension (both pictured below).

Their website:
http://www.flash-tool.co.jp/index.html

Extension was made January, 1998:

The wobble-only extension (it's the lonely one of the bunch):

Their plug sockets really mimic the Ko-ken Zeal sockets, from the retention type, the necked-down shaft, to the hex machined on the drive end:

 

[BK13]

For sparkplug removal....

Using my go-to locking extension with free-spinning sleeve (Wera), FPC locking universal, and Ko-ken sparkplug socket.

I MUST have this!

 

[superautobacs]

From part of FPC's catching/locking series is these dual-purpose "catching sockets":


Shallow and deep in the common sizes used in Japan

There's some obvious differences from Ko-ken's nut-catchers. Ko-ken uses two balls; FPC uses one.

What's unique about these is the dual-purpose function. You can choose to use it like a standard socket (with or without retention) by rotating the band:

 

[north]

*snip*
Their website:
http://www.flash-tool.co.jp/index.html
*snip*

9 out of 10 pimps choose Flash Tools...

Cool feature on the nut-catcher sockets.

Thanks for the info and pics.

 

[mrborohachi]

Who online carries FPC tools? I too would love to have that locking 3/8's universal.

From part of FPC's catching/locking series is these dual-purpose "catching sockets":


Shallow and deep in the common sizes used in Japan

There's some obvious differences from Ko-ken's nut-catchers. Ko-ken uses two balls; FPC uses one.

What's unique about these is the dual-purpose function. You can choose to use it like a standard socket (with or without retention) by rotating the band:

 

[superautobacs]

I would check with/email the usual two:

Frankstools
Levelchrome

Also search for some Rakuten stores, like i-Tools

 

[north]

Available at i-tools.

Sigh, once you think you have all your tool "needs" figured out... blammo!

 

[superautobacs]

Available at i-tools.

Sigh, once you think you have all your tool "needs" figured out... blammo!

This internet shopping thing is wonderful isn't it....getting all your favourite American, European, and Japanese tools delivered to your doorstep.

Happy shopping.

 

[north]

Yeah, I'm kidding no-one. It never ends, I know it and I love it.

 

[Van Steele]

One of their interesting product line from FPC has been their locking and retension accessories.

superautobacs. Right on cue!
I was just on the lookout for some locking extensions.

Do you find the hex on the driven end any good for fast hand spinning?

 

[txusa03]

I MUST have this!

Trying to picture a scenario where this locking universal would come in handy. I cannot find a scenario so my wallet is not hurting.

Some very nice quality tools btw!

 

[BK13]

Trying to picture a scenario where this locking universal would come in handy. I cannot find a scenario so my wallet is not hurting.

Some very nice quality tools btw!

The first thing that springs to mind is spark plugs that are hard to reach, but mostly every once in a while I see something that I just have an irrational desire to own. A Proto J4752FBL is on that list. The last thing I need is another standard-length non-flex 1/4" ratchet...

 

[superautobacs]

superautobacs. Right on cue!
I was just on the lookout for some locking extensions.

Do you find the hex on the driven end any good for fast hand spinning?

The 25" long FPC locking extension doesn't have the hex machined to it, unlike my 5" wobble extension. I just looked through their web catalogue and notieced that the hex feature is only available on their wobble-only extensions.

For fast hand spinning, the more cylindrical the shape is the more comfortable and faster it is to spin. With grip and speed in mind, I think the Ko-ken style knurling or the ones from MAC tools or Wera, for example, are better.

As a feature, I think the hex machining will likely come into greater use on a road kit, where you might have limited tools on deck (ie. not having the luxury of taking XL extensions with you on the road or say, for your home box (as opposed to your work box)). In such a case, you can couple it with a 17mm deep socket and extension to increase the overall length a little more, if needed. That socket could be a 1/2 drive or a 3/8 drive, depending on what you have.

Of course, the main reason (according to the manufacturers that make these types of extensions) is to be able to drive the hex with a wrench. Again, that feature would probably come into use more frequently when your tool arsenal is limited.

I personally have not encountered a situation where I needed to use the hex end. If the need ever arises, it's likely going to be for some sparkplug R&R. Who knows...it's a feature that's there, and may come in handy one day.

The first thing that springs to mind is spark plugs that are hard to reach, but mostly every once in a while I see something that I just have an irrational desire to own. A Proto J4752FBL is on that list. The last thing I need is another standard-length non-flex 1/4" ratchet...

One practical use is sparkplug R&R. Think of this scenario:
You're working on a vehicle where some of plugs are located in a confined area where you're going in completely blind (can't see the sparkplug itself). If the sparkplug socket disengages from your extension and you have to try to get that extension back onto the sparkplug socket, it can be a royal PITA because you can't see the female square of the socket. It's especially a pain if you are using a sparkplug socket with a built-in universal joint. You have no idea how that female square is oriented on that universal joint.












Note to anyone interested in trying out FPC....
I only have 3 tools from them, so I can't say with any certainty, but I'll share my opinion anyway.
Each tool works well for its intended use and each of the feature works well, too.
I'm a bit concerned about chrome durability. It's no surprise that chrome will chip from an end of a wobble socket (all of mine are chipped or about to chip). I was just a bit surprised when I used it for the first time many years ago that it chipped very easily.
The female square ends are sprayed with silver paint (not enitirely uncommon to see, even on some well known brands).
I think the tolerance range on the square ends might be a bit wide as they fit together with a bit more play than I'd like (loose fitting tools is a bit of a peeve of mine).

 

[Miskin]

If you're concerned about leverage/length, of all the brands that I know of, I think it comes down to these three brands (Lobster, Engineer, and 3-Peaks):

Lengths:
Engineer PZ59 = 200mm
3-Peaks DS-215TZ = 215mm
3-Peaks DS-200 = 210mm (this is a locking plier type (first picture below is the shorter DS-130))
Lobster TG200NA = 200mm

Grip width:
Engineer XP = 15mm
Engineer PZ59 = 19mm
others unknown....I can tell you that the grip width on the Lobster is pretty standard.

Hardness:
Engineer PZ59 = 60 +/-2 HRC
3-Peaks DS-215TZ = 50-58 HRC
3-Peaks DS-200 = 42-48 HRC
Lobster not known

Don't forget the Merry pliers ZA 185
Hardness around 25 HRC...
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3764043&postcount=679

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3813767&postcount=693

 

[superautobacs]

Don't forget the Merry pliers ZA 185
Hardness around 25 HRC...
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3764043&postcount=679

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3813767&postcount=693

Yes, that's right, I remember now. Thanks for the reminder of your experience. It would be nice to be able to make accurate measurements on all my pliers jaws too.

BTW, what do the jaws look like now?

 

[mercucho]

A very elegant screwdriver. Stainless steel, of course...

 

[BK13]

Looks cool, but I can't help but think that thing would be slippery as heck with oily/greasy hands...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[superautobacs]

Looks cool, but I can't help but think that thing would be slippery as heck with oily/greasy hands...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At least it's not a round handle. ....and I would assume a stainless steel screwdriver like that wouldn't be used in a dirty automotive/industrial environment.

 

[BK13]

Good point.

 

[srvctec]

Both of these made in Japan. I suppose they could be considered tools.