Can anyone make a case for China Craftsman?

[rice rocket]

Even if SEARS goes under, the CRAFTSMAN brand is worth more than Sears. And the owners of that brand know that much of the value in that that brand relies upon honoring its commitments.

This is often not the case though.


i.e. GM.

http://www.reuters.com/article/gm-impala-lawsuit-idUSN1E77I0Z820110819

Seeking class-action status and alleging breach of warranty, the lawsuit demands that GM fix the rods, saying that it had done so on Impala police vehicles.

But in a recent filing with the U.S. District Court in Detroit, GM noted that the cars were made by its predecessor General Motors Corp, now called Motors Liquidation Co or "Old GM," before its 2009 bankruptcy and federal bailout.

The current company, called "New GM," said it did not assume responsibility under the reorganization to fix the Impala problem, but only to make repairs "subject to conditions and limitations" in express written warranties. In essence, the automaker said, Trusky sued the wrong entity.

"New GM's warranty obligations for vehicles sold by Old GM are limited to the express terms and conditions in the Old GM written warranties on a going-forward basis," wrote Benjamin Jeffers, a lawyer for GM. "New GM did not assume responsibility for Old GM's design choices, conduct, or alleged breaches of liability under the warranty."

 

[rlitman]

He says while typing on his iphone or dell laptop

Hello pot? This is kettle typing on his good old American made Remington Rand.

 

[gdocktor3]

This is highly unlikely.

Even if Sears "paid" for the warranty service up front (instead of being billed by Apex for the warrantied goods), warranty service isn't free, Apex would have zero reason to keep up the Craftsman name alive. As Craftsman is the largest brand in the tool market, it directly competes with their own brands.

I read something on here about Napa warranting New Britain tools years after they folded up shop. New Britain was the oem for Napa way back when. Not too far fetched for Apex to continue doing so for Craftsman. Especially considering how big Apex has become. Coincidentally New Britain also made a lot of Craftsman tools in the day.

 

[Todd.Brock]

Craftsman was made in the US when I started fiddling with the spanners- Craftsman was all we had other than a cheap Taiwan set. It works. Wrenches turn , bolts loosen. If you want some cheap stuff to get going HF or Sears will do the job. If you want to get nostalgic then find some. Wright or Armstrong stuff if you aren't a fan of off the truck stuff or their prices. I found snap on, liked it and started aquiring it and retiring the cman stuff

 

[four.cycle]

He says while typing on his iphone or dell laptop

That statement would actually mean something if American-made alternatives were available.

Hand tools are one of the few items that are still manufactured in this country.

 

[BK13]

What I was trying to tell him is he'll need very few hand tools for just one bike , so it's better to get very good tools rather than cheap out or get 2-300pcs set that you will never use.

Good point that I completely ignored. LOL



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cliftonbros89]

Ok. I won't lie. I was a jerk and didn't read everyone else's opinions. But I'll throw my own out there.

When I started buying tools I thought I would take the less expensive route on things. Now for the most part I regret it. Especially with Craftsman. I've been disappoint in the quality on things. I've got by with the wrenches. But I prefer other brands. Same with sockets. I can also honestly say my Craftman sockets do not fit as well as some of my other brand sockets.

As far as the CMan ratchets go...I can't stand them. I bought a set of the 84T Craftsman ratchets. They seemed pretty good. But I'm now on my fifth 3/8" 84T ratchet. Every one I've had just suddenly completely locks up and won't come loose. Two of which locked up on their first use. Sure I could probably take it apart. But what's the use? They just continually lock up. Yeah there's a Sears in town. But why do I want to keep making a special trip to warranty ****? That's why I'm much more satisfied with my other brands on ratchets that I may have paid a little more money for.

I know the original question was just about wrenches. But sometimes it has to include more than wrenches. But in my experience I get along better with the higher quality U.S. brands. Can a China made Craftsman turn the same bolt? Sure. But I'd rather not break or wear out things quicker than what I could if I just paid a little more for something else.

 

[Tonellin]

That statement would actually mean something if American-made alternatives were available.

Hand tools are one of the few items that are still manufactured in this country.

Should I have said "while he sits in his Wrangler jeans, GAP t-shirt and wearing his Nike shoes?" The point is the same, we live in a global economy and anybody dumb enough to stand on their soap box preaching how they ONLY buy USA made is naive and hypocritical

 

[dar24601]

As you can tell everyone has their opinion on craftsman. Bottom line is they work just like Snap-on, SK and Wright wrench will work. All comes down to what feels good in your hand. Every tool can/will fail if missused/Abused. I guess my advice is buy what feels best that you can afford.

 

[n8n]

I see people starting out with craftsmen still. Occasionally they'll ask for one of my sockets but for what they do its fine.

And I wouldn't bother with HF. I'm sure craftsmen is a step up. Just because it's imported doesn't mean it's all the same.

iPhones come from China don't they?

Not so sure Craftsman is a step up from HF. The HF wrenches are at least polished and while the box ends are a little crude looking they actually look more like proper wrenches than c'man.

I bought a set of HF wrenches and cut a few of the boxes open to make 12 point flare wrenches for a one off job (tightening P/S hoses on an old Studebaker, not something I'm likely to do often.) They worked fine.

 

[n8n]

As you can tell everyone has their opinion on craftsman. Bottom line is they work just like Snap-on, SK and Wright wrench will work. All comes down to what feels good in your hand. Every tool can/will fail if missused/Abused. I guess my advice is buy what feels best that you can afford.

I'm going to respectfully disagree. There are meaningful differences in clearances, fine points of design, and material strength that may not be evident in non-challenging use but when you're trying to bust down some rusty POS because it has a part on it you need and can't find anywhere else, you appreciate the better, stronger tools.

 

[n8n]

This is true, but it is still a misunderstanding of the situation.
Even if SEARS goes under, the CRAFTSMAN brand is worth more than Sears. And the owners of that brand know that much of the value in that that brand relies upon honoring its commitments. I'm sure that the Craftsman and Kenmore brands would be sold off and continue to exist, no matter what happens to Sears. Their investors would be rightly pissed if they were dissolved.

How do you figure the Craftsman brand is worth anything?

If I break one of my grandfather's old wrenches, or even one of the sockets that I purchased myself back in the 90s, and take it into Sears today, I will get a Chinese made replacement. That honors the letter of the warranty agreement, but that warranty really only has value to me if I'm assured that my "lifetime replacement" is going to be of equal or better quality than the product that was originally purchased.

This isn't a hypothetical - had this happen with a 3/8" breaker bar. I was stealing some lift time at my friend's shop, someone borrowed my breaker, next thing I know one of the ears of the flex is broken. The replacement wasn't near as nice. Bought a used SK one to replace it and chucked the Cman one in the "spare tools" box.

 

[rlitman]

Not so sure Craftsman is a step up from HF. The HF wrenches are at least polished and while the box ends are a little crude looking they actually look more like proper wrenches than c'man...

A high polish is not a mark of quality in a wrench.
I've seen plenty of Chinese import tools with a very high polish. They start with a lousy forging, put on a super thick copper plating and polish the **** out of it. And once you put any force on it, the copper deforms and the chrome flakes off inside the jaws.
Not that I'm saying HF does this on their wrenches. I don't own any. But I have seen this on their screwdrivers.

 

[n8n]

A high polish is not a mark of quality in a wrench.
I've seen plenty of Chinese import tools with a very high polish. They start with a lousy forging, put on a super thick copper plating and polish the **** out of it. And once you put any force on it, the copper deforms and the chrome flakes off inside the jaws.
Not that I'm saying HF does this on their wrenches. I don't own any. But I have seen this on their screwdrivers.

I agree with you, but I never liked the finish at all on the RP C'man wrenches.

I'm not sure if it's wear over time but the really old C'man RPs and the similar looking SK RPs don't bother me nearly as much as the newer (last 30 years or so) ones. For hand feel my favorites are my SK SuperKromes; I like them even better than SO which feel to thin without gloves IMHO.

I have also always assumed that a polished finish was more expensive to execute than a matte finish, although there are some really nice matte finish wrenches out there (e.g. Williams, Wright, various German brands)

 

[rice rocket]

Most the European brands are matte. Beta, Hazet, Stahlwille, Wera, Gedore, Heyco, etc. mostly come in matte, the polished is always the exception, whereas it's the opposite in the US.

I think they're just more practical than us.

 

[tombell572]

No Positive case whatsoever. Purely a statement made by a lifelong Craftsman user based on my ideals and principals--I take Sears bailing on U.S. manufacture as a personal insult. I don't give a rat's *** about the quality or price of their offshore-made garbage. If I need to buy a tool this late in the game, I buy used-made in USA.

Tom B.

 

[M6erfan]

Who care about a 30 yr warranty on a dollar wrench?

Lol

 

[M6erfan]

If you're set on Craftsman and Chinese made bothers you, plenty of used USA Craftsman out there for sale...

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Should I have said "while he sits in his Wrangler jeans, GAP t-shirt and wearing his Nike shoes?" The point is the same, we live in a global economy and anybody dumb enough to stand on their soap box preaching how they ONLY buy USA made is naive and hypocritical

The top of the page says: "General Tool Discussion"

Are you in need of a further explanation?

 

[bubinga]

what about the wrench sets from Auto Zone, are they still good?
I know about 5 years ago, they were highly spoke of on here, and I brought a set for my home (at the time) Box.
They seem quite nice.
Now, weather they are still the same, is another question.
Something about the COO at the time, I don't recall if it was USA, Or Taiwan,
but IIRC yhe newer ones may not be the same.
Maybe someone knows what Im talking about.
But the ones I got 5 years ago, are NICE!

 

[Keelhauled]

I buy Chinese Craftsman cause it's decent quality stuff for a good price. I got my share of SK and Wright and US Craftsman for my most frequently used tools, but for stuff I use less often I have no reason to spend big money on. Most of my sockets and ratchets are SK, but my 3/4 drive set is Chinese Craftsman because it was $200 instead of $700. I'm just not gonna spend an extra $500 on something I use like once a month, if that. Craftsman quality is not top tier, that's for sure, but for probably 90% of people who buy tools it's good enough. If someone wants to buy American made tools as a point of pride or whatever that's a whole different matter but in terms of quality, most everyone who buys tools uses them for occasional weekend on their cars or houses or whatever, and Craftsman is plenty good for that. So's Harbor Freight or GearWrench or almost anything else, I just tend to buy Craftsman because there are two Sears stores pretty close to me.

 

[rlitman]

...I have also always assumed that a polished finish was more expensive to execute than a matte finish...

It can be, but it depends on what sort of a surface you're looking for. Polished and wavy is cheap. Polished and precision is expensive.

...I take Sears bailing on U.S. manufacture as a personal insult...

It IS a personal insult. But it is not Sears that bailed on US manufacturers. It is their customers.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I'm going to respectfully disagree. There are meaningful differences in clearances, fine points of design, and material strength that may not be evident in non-challenging use but when you're trying to bust down some rusty POS because it has a part on it you need and can't find anywhere else, you appreciate the better, stronger tools.

I notice people who don't live in rock-salt/rust states, seem to think less of the differences in fastener fit, tolerances, etc. Same deal with 12 vs. 6 point.


There is a noticeable difference between my craftsman sockets, to my gearwrench, to my snap on, to my matco 6-point spline.



Rust is life.

 

[slip knot]

The 1/4 drive sockets make good fishing weights. Have you priced the lead weights lately!!!

 

[gdocktor3]

I notice people who don't live in rock-salt/rust states, seem to think less of the differences in fastener fit, tolerances, etc. Same deal with 12 vs. 6 point.


There is a noticeable difference between my craftsman sockets, to my gearwrench, to my snap on, to my matco 6-point spline.



Rust is life.

Wow excellent point.
Try removing exhaust manifolds on a 80-90's Ford pickup that spent its entire life plowing snow. A Craftsman fits the forward most bolt perfectly, while a Snap On flank drive is needed for the rear most. Then you snap the studs, then an extractor... We won't go there though.

 

[Aerocraft74]

DAMN STRAIGHT!!! I live in michigan, and i find cheap tools just round the hell out of rusty old bolts. If it doesn't fit the fastener new, it would fit a rusty one worth a damn. In fact the sway links on my Buick were so bad i didn't have a wrench that would fit. Had to take it to an auto shop and torch them off! That's why I'm being picky about my wrenches and sockets. Cheap ones never work well for me, or their perfect for the next size up (rarely). In the case of a motorcycle that will never see salt I think a nicer wrench set would be in order. After some confirming the SK warranty is good, I think that's where I'm going. Thanks everyone, there's been plenty of food for thought here.

 

[sberry]

I found a handful of cheap wrenches that really didn't fit well. A couple due to the fact we damaged them with impacts. Some are super good and do have a handful of FD and there was a point they were worth having, still are and on occasion I look one up cause I can and its the right thing.
I got some old Cman just right too, very slender box and strong and another 10 flavors of box, some offsets, some bargain, a few china and they would get discarded if they were not service worthy no matter where it came from. We over paid in the day at a dollar and 1.50 as singles for some of them but they are still working well with 1000;s of cycles and some outright brutal that wouldn't ever be subjected to by the home crew.
TSC sold the one in pic 2 at one point and maybe the same thing under Olympia at one time. The beam had some flex but the fit and tight box are super and have hit these repeatedly with 20 oz nail hammers on rusted bolts.
Those USA generic things are Cman level tools, never broke one. We over paid as a single probably but it solved a problem at the time.

 

[sberry]

A premium finish is a bit more expensive but there are good cheap finish and some like MIT which is very good considering the cost. At one time I see a Stanley long full polish set that looked quite good.

 

[sberry]

Those super sale cman sets are the way for a guy to get his feet under himself fast. Its really must have full set stuff but a guy doesn't use every piece all the time and some none at all. There is no shortage, can buy elsewhere or in the future as needed.

 

[ChevyEFI]

Even if Craftsman is your thing, there's no benefit to the China wrenches vs. a used U.S. one.
Craftsman wrenches are ergonomically garbage.
I've experienced some poor metallurgy in the ones made "recently."

The cost savings in Craftsman is usually in buying a set with sizes you don't need.
For your bike, does it have a kit? If not, buy just the ones you need and store them on board. Metric bikes tend to have specific, standardized sizes, not using the 11mm, for example.

No, I can't make a case for China Craftsman unless you're in a parking lot changing a battery right this second. There are way too many other options out there. I'd have fun searching on webike.net and other places before considering Craftsman.

 

[seber]

My old USA made craftsman ratchets used to get rebuilt pretty often until I finally bought Snap-on. Solved that problem. I still use a number of Craftsman sockets but the hex doesn't go all the way to the bottom of the well. That can sometimes be very aggravating when the head turns inside the socket. For my money I don't buy Craftsman old or Chinese.

 

[L.Cheapo]

Should I have said "while he sits in his Wrangler jeans, GAP t-shirt and wearing his Nike shoes?" The point is the same, we live in a global economy and anybody dumb enough to stand on their soap box preaching how they ONLY buy USA made is naive and hypocritical

Your uninformed opinion and name calling really doesn't deserve acknowledgement. I'll reply simply to illustrate a point.

You can buy just about anything made in the USA. You may have to look a little harder or pay a little more, but it can be done, especially today where you can buy anything on the internet and have it at your door in a matter of days.

For the record, my jeans are made in USA, and they cost less than the big names in stores. Probably due to less placement and advertising costs. All of my t-shirts are made in USA. My shoes are made in USA. So are my socks, furniture, vehicles, silverware, cookware, tools, etc, etc. Even the big names are starting to catch on--I recently bought a multipack of Hanes socks that was made in the USA.

I would honestly say 98% of my purchases by dollar value in the past two years have been made in USA. The rest would be Canada, Germany, and a small amount of other.

Moving away from throwaway junk questionably made by underpaid people in poor working conditions has resulted in owning things that work better, last longer, and I don't have to worry about it containing some unannounced poison I don't want in my house.

I was going through a pair of imported shoes from various brands and price ranges every 2-3 months at work. I walk several miles a day. They were just falling apart. It was so bad, I carried Krazy Glue in my bag for repairs. Frustrated, I ponied up a little more for a pair of American made shoes. TWO YEARS later, I still wear that same pair of shoes to work every day. There's a difference between price and value.

Maybe you like the smell of Harbor Freight. To each their own, even if they are "dumb," "naïve," or "hypocritical."

 

[bubinga]

Sort of Off topic, But I have a Stanley Ratchet, (3/8" drive) the anvil is broken and mostly missing,
and the quick release button is missing.
can I get a kit for that, with the anvil and Q, release button, or get it warrantied any where?
walmart won't handle the warranty will they??
Not really "lost without it", but it will make a good tool for the car.

 

[supertooljunkie]

I have never purchased any of the chinese Craftsman tools. I pretty much gave up on them since the change over. Buying Craftsman tools in the larger sets has always been a great bargain whether US or china made.

I still buy US made Craftsman tools at pawn shops at pennies on the dollar. I purchase almost 40 sockets at a shop in Nashville area last weekend. Mostly Craftsman, but including some SK, Fleet, Proto, US made Husky, Indestro Super, in three drive sizes for $15. Just had to spend some time digging through the bins.

The new Pittsburgh Pro at Harbor Freight are mostly made in Taiwan now. Not china, Haven't tried the wrenches, but I have the 72 tooth ratchets in my truck box, and for the price have performed quite well.

 

[gdpolk]

I use the following wrenches as a DIY guy at home, and I've worked with several others of all price points and countries of origin, this is just what I have at home:
1) Chinese Craftsman full polished combinations
2) US Craftsman raised panel combinations
3) US Craftsman ratcheting
4) Gearwrench ratcheting
5) SnapOn combination
6) Craftsman Dual Ratcheting (US I think, not sure on them)

When it comes to plain ole combination wrenches, I can say it honestly doesn't matter to me what brand I pull out. They all turn the bolt the same. The Chinese polished craftsman seem to have a more consistent fit/finish than the US based raised panel wrenches I have. The new Chinese Craftsman ignition wrenches are trash, whereas the older US ignition wrenches were decent. The chrome on the raised panels seems to be more durable than the polished Craftsman chrome, although maybe it's just that you can see scratches easier on any polished wrench than on an orange peel texture. The SnapOn definitely has the best fit/finish of all of my wrenches, but as to whether it's worth the cost I'd have to say not to me. I picked up mine on a steal of a deal and it was worth that, but unless your keeping the lights on I doubt you'll really need more tool than a Craftsman for general use. These are such a simple tool that it really isn't that hard to make a decent combination wrench.

 

[Al Borland]

Out at a car show this weekend (Syracuse) a couple vendors were selling tools. Saw quite a bit of Craftsman Industrial, and the RP Ratchets now have a metal selector. Sockets were finished better than any of my chromed Craftsman sockets. Wrenches...Meh...look like a lot of other wrenches.
Didn't buy them, or the Tekton impact sockets. Or any Lisle or Wilde stuff...

 

[derosa]

Went to the sears and picked up two completely different sets in cases along with a set if spark plug sockets and a trio of bits for my impact driver both of which fit in a pocket of one case. Need to go help anyone with a project I grab these cases and a screw gun, tools are laid out easy to find and the variety covers most any need. Quick tune of my parents 4 wheeler, helping with a play ground set up, adjusting my BIL's bike. Wouldn't want to use them on my own cars, way prefer my wrights, especially since the wrights are longer and grab better. Love the better leverage on my wright ratchets. But my FIL is rough on tools when he uses them, my step-FIL doesn't have tools to work with and my BIL is a tool snob who won't ask for them. For general house stuff, these two sets with their 75t ratchets, range of sockets and bits, and paltry range of wrenches are easy to store, easy to find, easy to transport and yet to lack what I need.

 

[Virgil Cain]

hmmm.. motorcycles fasteners usually can be seen, wrenching with chinese .... will leave marks and mangled bolts and nuts, that probably will cost you more than the tools.

you need 2 jis screwdrivers #2 and probably #3

6,8,10,12,14 wrenches ( combination if possible)

depending on you model a set of 3/8 sockets could be all you ever need.


buy smart, once and german, you'll never need warranty ...well the screwdrivers can be made in Japan

I have a fair amount of Hazet ratchets and sockets.

Honestly, they're nothing to write home about.

 

[M6erfan]

I have a fair amount of Hazet ratchets and sockets.

Honestly, they're nothing to write home about.

Interesting, I really like the Hazet sockets I have. They're finished well, durable, and I'm a big fan of the knurling (useful rather than decorative). Their Ratchets I've never used...

 

[Virgil Cain]

Interesting, I really like the Hazet sockets I have. They're finished well, durable, and I'm a big fan of the knurling (useful rather than decorative). Their Ratchets I've never used...

The sockets I probably have less issue with. They're sockets. They do what sockets do.

The ratchets I have are from the late 80s I think. Fairly coarse toothed. I paid a fair amount for them, but I find that I rarely use them.

I know this is anathema, but I picked up some Pittsburgh Pro ratchets for a car kit and I find that I use them far more that my Hazets.

I do some vintage VW work, and you've just got to have a set of Hazet tools for that.... right?